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Rob1Billion
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8/12/2010 8:21:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm putting this in Politix bc I'm only concerned with the political implications of the story.

We have a consumer-driven economy, which empowers the consumers (or so they think) to be able to have complete freedom over what they want. The problem is, we are only consumers 2 days a week. The other 5 days a week we are the ones that the consumers abuse. This attitude that the customer is always right, that a person spending 85 cents at McDonalds has the full right to treat the workers in the restaurant any way they like because paying customers can demand whatever they want, is destroying us as a people.

When you go over to a friend's house to eat, you will always treat them with the utmost respect. You'll eat whatever they are making (and even perhaps pretend to like it), and be respectful and kind. Our culture is moving the opposite way as far as public establishments are concerned, however. I should know; I'm about to sign on as ATT Technical Support in a few hours, and people are going to be flooding the phone lines telling me how much ATT sucks, how much I'm ruining their lives and businesses because they can't make calls for whatever reason, and they are going to be very rude to me. I don't have to guess about this; it happens every single day. I will take my degree and advance out of there inevitably, but just because I leave doesn't mean the next person taking my job ought to have to deal with that.

Public restaurants, airlines, retail stores, and other consumer-created service institutions are purveying immorality, class-division, and economic inefficiency. Just because I will pay a dollar for a hamburger at McDonald's doesn't mean one ought to be built by my house. If I could be convinced into purchasing a whore it doesn't mean a whorehouse should be established in my neighborhood to harness my purchasing power. By letting the consumers drive the economy we are letting them eat each other alive. We treat our service people like absolute trash and then clock into work and deal with it ourselves... Even if you don't work in the service sector you are being shat upon. I for one hope to God, if he exists, that this incident will not be forgotten and that it will be remembered for the right reasons.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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8/12/2010 9:09:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 8:21:29 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
I'm putting this in Politix bc I'm only concerned with the political implications of the story.

We have a consumer-driven economy, which empowers the consumers (or so they think) to be able to have complete freedom over what they want. The problem is, we are only consumers 2 days a week. The other 5 days a week we are the ones that the consumers abuse. This attitude that the customer is always right, that a person spending 85 cents at McDonalds has the full right to treat the workers in the restaurant any way they like because paying customers can demand whatever they want, is destroying us as a people.

When you go over to a friend's house to eat, you will always treat them with the utmost respect. You'll eat whatever they are making (and even perhaps pretend to like it), and be respectful and kind. Our culture is moving the opposite way as far as public establishments are concerned, however. I should know; I'm about to sign on as ATT Technical Support in a few hours, and people are going to be flooding the phone lines telling me how much ATT sucks, how much I'm ruining their lives and businesses because they can't make calls for whatever reason, and they are going to be very rude to me. I don't have to guess about this; it happens every single day. I will take my degree and advance out of there inevitably, but just because I leave doesn't mean the next person taking my job ought to have to deal with that.

Public restaurants, airlines, retail stores, and other consumer-created service institutions are purveying immorality, class-division, and economic inefficiency. Just because I will pay a dollar for a hamburger at McDonald's doesn't mean one ought to be built by my house. If I could be convinced into purchasing a whore it doesn't mean a whorehouse should be established in my neighborhood to harness my purchasing power. By letting the consumers drive the economy we are letting them eat each other alive. We treat our service people like absolute trash and then clock into work and deal with it ourselves... Even if you don't work in the service sector you are being shat upon. I for one hope to God, if he exists, that this incident will not be forgotten and that it will be remembered for the right reasons.

This problem is peculiar to, or at least most exaggerated in, America.

If you worked in Europe and someone was rude to you, you would have the full support of your employer if you warned them that you are not prepared to be spoken to in that manner and that if they persist you will terminate the call.

I must say, on the plus side, the service in the US is the best in the world, and often attentive to the point of embarrassment - "Hi, welcome to Philthy Phil's Waterfront Bar and Grill: home of Ferg's famous Downtown Wings; my name is Billy-Bob and I'll be your server this evening. I'm sure glad you chose to favour us with your company tonight! Can I get you some drinks or are you ready to order now, sir?"
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/12/2010 10:16:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 8:21:29 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
I'm putting this in Politix bc I'm only concerned with the political implications of the story.

We have a consumer-driven economy, which empowers the consumers (or so they think) to be able to have complete freedom over what they want. The problem is, we are only consumers 2 days a week. The other 5 days a week we are the ones that the consumers abuse. This attitude that the customer is always right, that a person spending 85 cents at McDonalds has the full right to treat the workers in the restaurant any way they like because paying customers can demand whatever they want, is destroying us as a people.

When you go over to a friend's house to eat, you will always treat them with the utmost respect. You'll eat whatever they are making (and even perhaps pretend to like it), and be respectful and kind. Our culture is moving the opposite way as far as public establishments are concerned, however. I should know; I'm about to sign on as ATT Technical Support in a few hours, and people are going to be flooding the phone lines telling me how much ATT sucks, how much I'm ruining their lives and businesses because they can't make calls for whatever reason, and they are going to be very rude to me. I don't have to guess about this; it happens every single day. I will take my degree and advance out of there inevitably, but just because I leave doesn't mean the next person taking my job ought to have to deal with that.

Public restaurants, airlines, retail stores, and other consumer-created service institutions are purveying immorality, class-division, and economic inefficiency. Just because I will pay a dollar for a hamburger at McDonald's doesn't mean one ought to be built by my house. If I could be convinced into purchasing a whore it doesn't mean a whorehouse should be established in my neighborhood to harness my purchasing power. By letting the consumers drive the economy we are letting them eat each other alive. We treat our service people like absolute trash and then clock into work and deal with it ourselves... Even if you don't work in the service sector you are being shat upon. I for one hope to God, if he exists, that this incident will not be forgotten and that it will be remembered for the right reasons.

Rob, i fully understand your situation, and sympathize with your position in doing your job, for about 10 years i was on the telephones doing customer service for a giant company you have heard of, and i also trained people to go on the telephones. I would often tell trainees what was told to me, and that is, 'it is not your job to take abuse, ever'. A good company, with decent management should back you up. On the other hand, you have to learn how to take it. Silence works well, let the person spew off their emotional rants, and then offer them their options. I have also done this..."oh i'd be really upset too...that's ridiculous", and typically they calm down. You can't let a bad call make a bad day, and learn to laugh at them when you're off the call.

Quick story: I work for an office products company, and back when i was on the telephones i got a call: "I'm looking for some paper samples can you provide them?" Me: "probably, what sort of paper are you looking for in particular?" Client: "Some colored paper, would you fax me some samples so i can look at them?" Me: "Um....huh?" Client: "We aren't sure exactly so i'd like you to fax over the samples so we can take a look at the paper". Me: "Um....are you serious?" Client: "yes, we'd like to look at the banana colored paper and the golden rod paper to see what's best, would you fax some samples over?" Me: "Um....you do realize that whatever paper you have in your fax machine will be what comes over if i send something right?" SILENCE.................... Client:"oh yeah....ha ha ha".

The customer is always stupid.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/12/2010 10:23:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 10:16:05 AM, innomen wrote:
The customer is always stupid.

yep.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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8/12/2010 10:59:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
We are not backed up in the slightest; if you raise your hand and yell at your dog, the dog will lay on its back and show its belly. That is the ONLY alternative AT&T wants us to take in ANY scenario; there is no exception. If the call is escalated to a manager the manager can get away with defending themselves to some extent, but that is no consolation to me. If you call into AT&T and just start swearing at the rep unintelligably, they have no authority to hang up on you. Try it sometime; their a55e5 will be terminated immediately if they disconnect the call with you and are caught.

AT&T's policies are not different than Verizon's and probably most other call-center positions. That's why this video is so believable: we have no ability to hang up on the customer!
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/12/2010 11:02:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 10:59:12 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
We are not backed up in the slightest; if you raise your hand and yell at your dog, the dog will lay on its back and show its belly. That is the ONLY alternative AT&T wants us to take in ANY scenario; there is no exception. If the call is escalated to a manager the manager can get away with defending themselves to some extent, but that is no consolation to me. If you call into AT&T and just start swearing at the rep unintelligably, they have no authority to hang up on you. Try it sometime; their a55e5 will be terminated immediately if they disconnect the call with you and are caught.

AT&T's policies are not different than Verizon's and probably most other call-center positions. That's why this video is so believable: we have no ability to hang up on the customer!

I've got to say something.... stop being such a whiner.

So you have to deal with stupid customers. Big woop. Get over it and learn to enjoy the real world. I'm fairly certain I get a thousand times worse calls than you do on a daily basis and I'm not running around complaining about how hard it is for me to work under such conditions. Oh noes, people get PO'd and frustrated and take it out on me over a phone - what will I ever do!

That's just sad, dude.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/12/2010 11:05:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 10:59:12 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:


We are not backed up in the slightest; if you raise your hand and yell at your dog, the dog will lay on its back and show its belly. That is the ONLY alternative AT&T wants us to take in ANY scenario; there is no exception. If the call is escalated to a manager the manager can get away with defending themselves to some extent, but that is no consolation to me. If you call into AT&T and just start swearing at the rep unintelligably, they have no authority to hang up on you. Try it sometime; their a55e5 will be terminated immediately if they disconnect the call with you and are caught.

AT&T's policies are not different than Verizon's and probably most other call-center positions. That's why this video is so believable: we have no ability to hang up on the customer!

I don't think i ever hung up on a customer intentionally. I may have become very condescending, but again, we didn't have to put up with anything like that. To this day i am incredibly friendly to people on the telephone, even telemarketers because i know its a sh!tty job, they're just trying to make a wage, and i don't need to make it worse. Actually i am really good to all service people, because working with the public is one of the hardest jobs there is, and i think it's getting worse. If it's any consolation, that experience has helped me tremendously in my job now. I can deal with pretty much any sort of person that is put before me.
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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8/12/2010 11:30:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Again, what do you propose as a solution?

And guys, I don't think it's necessary to quote the OP's long post individually, and it's never necessary to quote the statement directly above yours.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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8/12/2010 12:43:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I've got to say something.... stop being such a whiner.

So you have to deal with stupid customers. Big woop. Get over it and learn to enjoy the real world. I'm fairly certain I get a thousand times worse calls than you do on a daily basis and I'm not running around complaining about how hard it is for me to work under such conditions. Oh noes, people get PO'd and frustrated and take it out on me over a phone - what will I ever do!

That's just sad, dude.

What's sad is your apathy. You no doubt would have told blacks 100 years ago to stop whining as well; you have no ability to step outside your cultural box and look in from an independent position. Your accepting attitude is what Jesus fought against, what Martin Luther King Jr. fought against, what Galileo Galilei and every other renegade in history fought against. You're not necessarily part of the problem itself, but you are part of the submissive acceptance of injustice and immorality.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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8/12/2010 12:49:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 11:30:46 AM, mongeese wrote:
Again, what do you propose as a solution?

And guys, I don't think it's necessary to quote the OP's long post individually, and it's never necessary to quote the statement directly above yours.

Mongoose I am leaving for work and don't have time at the moment to adequately respond to that but I have repeatedly and incessantly argued on DDO for the abolition of currency. In short, I believe a cooperative system is more efficient and equitable for all.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/12/2010 12:49:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 12:43:35 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
I've got to say something.... stop being such a whiner.

So you have to deal with stupid customers. Big woop. Get over it and learn to enjoy the real world. I'm fairly certain I get a thousand times worse calls than you do on a daily basis and I'm not running around complaining about how hard it is for me to work under such conditions. Oh noes, people get PO'd and frustrated and take it out on me over a phone - what will I ever do!

That's just sad, dude.

What's sad is your apathy. You no doubt would have told blacks 100 years ago to stop whining as well; you have no ability to step outside your cultural box and look in from an independent position. Your accepting attitude is what Jesus fought against, what Martin Luther King Jr. fought against, what Galileo Galilei and every other renegade in history fought against. You're not necessarily part of the problem itself, but you are part of the submissive acceptance of injustice and immorality.

LOL

seriously bro, you need to get over yourself. people are rude and they take it out on service people, yes. its not nice. but thats NOTHING compared to institutionalized racism or being threatened UPON PAIN OF DEATH to adhere to the "correct view" or reality. the fact that you would even make such a comparison is just absurd.

so yes... people are rude. i take a lot of sh*t from customers myself. i smile and give them what they want and feel sorry for them because they must be miserable. and of course make fun of them with my coworkers once they're gone. what else can you do? pass a law against rudeness? lmao...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/12/2010 12:49:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 12:43:35 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
What's sad is your apathy. You no doubt would have told blacks 100 years ago to stop whining as well; you have no ability to step outside your cultural box and look in from an independent position. Your accepting attitude is what Jesus fought against, what Martin Luther King Jr. fought against, what Galileo Galilei and every other renegade in history fought against. You're not necessarily part of the problem itself, but you are part of the submissive acceptance of injustice and immorality.

Are you kidding me? You're comparing your problems at work through doing your job to the struggle of African Americans for rights and freedoms? You're too much, Rob.

Honestly, if you don't like the job, get a new one. Otherwise, you need to suck it up. You're there for people to ask questions, solve problems with, and then generally blame if something goes wrong. That's just how people are, and it won't disappear whether or not these jobs exist. You're providing a service and they're using it. Customer service is about dealing with customers, not whining in your own self-pity. You're even doing it over the phone, Rob! Try doing it in person. Don't be so sensitive and maybe can enjoy your job.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/12/2010 12:51:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 12:49:13 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 8/12/2010 11:30:46 AM, mongeese wrote:
Again, what do you propose as a solution?

And guys, I don't think it's necessary to quote the OP's long post individually, and it's never necessary to quote the statement directly above yours.

Mongoose I am leaving for work and don't have time at the moment to adequately respond to that but I have repeatedly and incessantly argued on DDO for the abolition of currency. In short, I believe a cooperative system is more efficient and equitable for all.

problem: people aren't nice. solution: base all exchange on the premise of people being nice to each other (which its already clearly evident that they aren't)?

thats almost as absurd as comparing rude customers to slavery....
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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8/12/2010 1:52:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 12:49:13 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 8/12/2010 11:30:46 AM, mongeese wrote:
Again, what do you propose as a solution?

And guys, I don't think it's necessary to quote the OP's long post individually, and it's never necessary to quote the statement directly above yours.

Mongoose I am leaving for work and don't have time at the moment to adequately respond to that but I have repeatedly and incessantly argued on DDO for the abolition of currency. In short, I believe a cooperative system is more efficient and equitable for all.

So, your solution to the rudeness of society is to establish a system in which people must cooperate nicely in order to succeed? Brilliant.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/12/2010 2:00:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 12:43:35 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:


What's sad is your apathy. You no doubt would have told blacks 100 years ago to stop whining as well; you have no ability to step outside your cultural box and look in from an independent position. Your accepting attitude is what Jesus fought against, what Martin Luther King Jr. fought against, what Galileo Galilei and every other renegade in history fought against. You're not necessarily part of the problem itself, but you are part of the submissive acceptance of injustice and immorality.

I think you're going a little bit over the top here.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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8/12/2010 9:31:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Here goes nothing...

LOL

Do you really have to post that every time I make a forum?

seriously bro, you need to get over yourself. people are rude and they take it out on service people, yes. its not nice. but thats NOTHING compared to institutionalized racism or being threatened UPON PAIN OF DEATH to adhere to the "correct view" or reality. the fact that you would even make such a comparison is just absurd.

Actually, it's not. People don't realize they are enslaved because they are conditioned to believe it is the only way we can operate. The slavery of a monotonous 9-5 in a factory everyday is comparable to blacks picking cotton. This is precisely why pro-slavery factions in the south were able to morally justify their ideas two centuries ago; their argument was "at least we take care of our negros." In the new system, where blacks are free, look at what we have. We have them cooped up in the inner city ghettos, filling our jails... I could almost make the argument that they were in fact better off, on average, during slavery because at least their basic needs were taken care of.

so yes... people are rude. i take a lot of sh*t from customers myself. i smile and give them what they want and feel sorry for them because they must be miserable. and of course make fun of them with my coworkers once they're gone. what else can you do? pass a law against rudeness? lmao...

People would not be rude if they didn't believe they had a divine right to the services within their purchasing power. What else can we do? How about remove the institution of currency. Of course you probably wouldn't know anything about my arguments for that because although you participate in just about every forum topic I create, you usually just leave some snide remarks and exit stage left without any actual discussion.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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8/12/2010 9:49:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Are you kidding me? You're comparing your problems at work through doing your job to the struggle of African Americans for rights and freedoms? You're too much, Rob.

I'm too much... Our environment is being destroyed, our workers are being oppressed, big business is squeezing more and more money out of the working class, we're producing products that we not only don't need but actually do harm to us, we're wasting resources, and the government is growing to try and tax, regulate, and otherwise screw up the entire system even more... And all because of the power of the mighty dollar. Freedom of choice. We are consumers 2 days a week so we'll sacrifice the other 5 days a week to be a slave to other consumers just so we can participate. Our freedoms have not even begun to evolve. America is a shiny beacon of freedom like Islam is a shiny beacon of women's rights.

Honestly, if you don't like the job, get a new one. Otherwise, you need to suck it up. You're there for people to ask questions, solve problems with, and then generally blame if something goes wrong. That's just how people are, and it won't disappear whether or not these jobs exist. You're providing a service and they're using it. Customer service is about dealing with customers, not whining in your own self-pity. You're even doing it over the phone, Rob! Try doing it in person. Don't be so sensitive and maybe can enjoy your job.

I'm not trying to make this the "Rob hates his job" forum. I've got an interview tomorrow morning and probably will certainly be out of there very soon. But I don't want to simply escape so my seat will be filled by someone else. My callcenter, in it's entirety, is a mistake. It should not exist. I can feel it in every bone of my body. If we had a cooperative system, then ATT would not be trying to suck every dime out of their customers that they could. There would be no need for the 1,000 jobs at my center. IOWs, if cellphone businesses were cooperative, the 1,000 people at my center could theoretically do NOTHING productive for the economy and continue to draw on its services with no essential difference. When I look at our economy I see millions of unnecessary jobs. We could eliminate these jobs with only minimal effects on productivity; when these people are empowered to be productive in their own right, IOWs doing what they actually want to do to be productive, we end up with a lot more economic contribution than we currently enjoy.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/12/2010 9:49:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 9:31:44 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
We have them cooped up in the inner city ghettos, filling our jails... I could almost make the argument that they were in fact better off, on average, during slavery because at least their basic needs were taken care of.

LOL
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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8/12/2010 10:03:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 2:00:47 PM, innomen wrote:

What's sad is your apathy. You no doubt would have told blacks 100 years ago to stop whining as well; you have no ability to step outside your cultural box and look in from an independent position. Your accepting attitude is what Jesus fought against, what Martin Luther King Jr. fought against, what Galileo Galilei and every other renegade in history fought against. You're not necessarily part of the problem itself, but you are part of the submissive acceptance of injustice and immorality.

I think you're going a little bit over the top here.

I believe the struggles in the American working class are just as real as the struggles these figures fought against. We have poverty, oppression, environmental damage... The most potent to me, however, is the fact that we believe we are free when we are not. Steven Slater freed himself... for a moment. I don't believe the histrionics involved helped the morality of his situation, but he showed us that the American worker is oppressed and wants out of this current predicament. As we speak, people are flooding his facebook page with claims of ending their sh11y jobs in blazes of glory. I can only dream about a flood of insubordination from the American public; it will not happen, however, because the powers that be need not lift a finger to sustain their oppression - you will do it for them.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/12/2010 10:07:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 9:31:44 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Actually, it's not. People don't realize they are enslaved because they are conditioned to believe it is the only way we can operate. The slavery of a monotonous 9-5 in a factory everyday is comparable to blacks picking cotton. This is precisely why pro-slavery factions in the south were able to morally justify their ideas two centuries ago; their argument was "at least we take care of our negros." In the new system, where blacks are free, look at what we have. We have them cooped up in the inner city ghettos, filling our jails... I could almost make the argument that they were in fact better off, on average, during slavery because at least their basic needs were taken care of.

try this: REAL slavery involves the inconvenient fact that if they want to quit/leave the victims can be beaten or even killed. this is extremely illegal given the current system. there is no law confining "negros" to "inner city ghettos". note that i am NOT arguing that the way things are now is ideal. however, it doesn't follow that customers being rude is equivalent to slavery. not even close.

People would not be rude if they didn't believe they had a divine right to the services within their purchasing power.

anyone who believes they have a divine right to anything is deluded :P

What else can we do? How about remove the institution of currency. Of course you probably wouldn't know anything about my arguments for that because although you participate in just about every forum topic I create, you usually just leave some snide remarks and exit stage left without any actual discussion.

honestly, i can't even think of any other topic you've created. if you wanna drop the ad homs i would be happy to discuss the topic with you.

for reals though, abolishing currency isn't going to change human nature... so how is it going to eliminate greed or make people nicer?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
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8/12/2010 10:14:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 9:49:35 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/12/2010 9:31:44 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
We have them cooped up in the inner city ghettos, filling our jails... I could almost make the argument that they were in fact better off, on average, during slavery because at least their basic needs were taken care of.

LOL

This is a bonafied historical Confederate argument, my friend... And a good one. You see, slavery was sort of a mini-socialistic system for blacks. Would you rather be working out in the fields every day picking cotton, with all your basic needs guaranteed? Or living in an inner-city ghetto dodging bullets, starving, and using your fists to survive? Neither situation is rosy, but all of you who are scoffing at this point really have no idea just how bad it is in some areas. Even if your in a decent suburb, if you're a poor black person you are destined for either prison or welfare. The most you can hope fore is to hold a dead-end entry-level job... And don't give me that land of opportunity crap, a poor black person doesn't have equal opportunity as a rich white person.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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8/12/2010 10:14:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 10:07:40 PM, belle wrote:
At 8/12/2010 9:31:44 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
People would not be rude if they didn't believe they had a divine right to the services within their purchasing power.

anyone who believes they have a divine right to anything is deluded :P

I'm sure making health care a right is going to fix that problem.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/12/2010 10:15:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 10:14:18 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 8/12/2010 10:07:40 PM, belle wrote:
At 8/12/2010 9:31:44 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
People would not be rude if they didn't believe they had a divine right to the services within their purchasing power.

anyone who believes they have a divine right to anything is deluded :P

I'm sure making health care a right is going to fix that problem.

el oh el. am i a liberal? hmmmmmmmm
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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8/12/2010 10:16:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm trying to think of an argument to use against Rob, but they all use logic, and that doesn't work against him.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
mongoose
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8/12/2010 10:17:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 10:15:33 PM, belle wrote:
At 8/12/2010 10:14:18 PM, mongoose wrote:
At 8/12/2010 10:07:40 PM, belle wrote:
At 8/12/2010 9:31:44 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
People would not be rude if they didn't believe they had a divine right to the services within their purchasing power.

anyone who believes they have a divine right to anything is deluded :P

I'm sure making health care a right is going to fix that problem.

el oh el. am i a liberal? hmmmmmmmm

I was talking to Rob, reaffirming your point.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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8/12/2010 10:21:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 10:16:53 PM, mongoose wrote:
I'm trying to think of an argument to use against Rob, but they all use logic, and that doesn't work against him.

hate to be rude.... but i lol'd...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
belle
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8/12/2010 10:24:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 10:14:17 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 8/12/2010 9:49:35 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/12/2010 9:31:44 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
We have them cooped up in the inner city ghettos, filling our jails... I could almost make the argument that they were in fact better off, on average, during slavery because at least their basic needs were taken care of.

LOL

This is a bonafied historical Confederate argument, my friend... And a good one. You see, slavery was sort of a mini-socialistic system for blacks. Would you rather be working out in the fields every day picking cotton, with all your basic needs guaranteed? Or living in an inner-city ghetto dodging bullets, starving, and using your fists to survive? Neither situation is rosy, but all of you who are scoffing at this point really have no idea just how bad it is in some areas. Even if your in a decent suburb, if you're a poor black person you are destined for either prison or welfare. The most you can hope fore is to hold a dead-end entry-level job... And don't give me that land of opportunity crap, a poor black person doesn't have equal opportunity as a rich white person.

and ps my ex-bf is black and poor and ZOMG he's not on welfare or in prison. so clearly what you claim is not the inevitable result of being black or poor...
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
mattrodstrom
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8/12/2010 10:25:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 10:14:17 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 8/12/2010 9:49:35 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/12/2010 9:31:44 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
We have them cooped up in the inner city ghettos, filling our jails... I could almost make the argument that they were in fact better off, on average, during slavery because at least their basic needs were taken care of.

LOL

This is a bonafied historical Confederate argument, my friend... And a good one. You see, slavery was sort of a mini-socialistic system for blacks. Would you rather be working out in the fields every day picking cotton, with all your basic needs guaranteed? Or living in an inner-city ghetto dodging bullets, starving, and using your fists to survive? Neither situation is rosy, but all of you who are scoffing at this point really have no idea just how bad it is in some areas. Even if your in a decent suburb, if you're a poor black person you are destined for either prison or welfare. The most you can hope fore is to hold a dead-end entry-level job... And don't give me that land of opportunity crap, a poor black person doesn't have equal opportunity as a rich white person.

so... go to jail then.

3 squares... you don't gotta work... free books... and health care to boot!

http://www.pcsoweb.com...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/12/2010 10:30:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/12/2010 10:25:41 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/12/2010 10:14:17 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 8/12/2010 9:49:35 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/12/2010 9:31:44 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
We have them cooped up in the inner city ghettos, filling our jails... I could almost make the argument that they were in fact better off, on average, during slavery because at least their basic needs were taken care of.

LOL

This is a bonafied historical Confederate argument, my friend... And a good one. You see, slavery was sort of a mini-socialistic system for blacks. Would you rather be working out in the fields every day picking cotton, with all your basic needs guaranteed?

really they were gauranteed?

you sure?

or were they just taken care of if the owner thought you were worth the trouble?

if they have a plantation of 100 or so... a couple can die here or there without depleting the total...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."