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USA should help the armed forces of Ukraine

Nowak
Posts: 1
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6/18/2015 4:44:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Does international community know something about currently situation in Eastern part of Ukraine.Infrastructure of the Eastern regions is completely destroyed. War between Russia and Ukraine lasts about a year. Russia is experiencing its entire arsenal of weapons in order to kill Ukrainians. The official number of people killed in the invasion has already reached 6,500 killed from Ukrainian side, the death toll from the Russian side very carefully concealed. OSCE and international negotiations does not particularly help and turn to a blind corner. Please read this interesting and factual article about who really uses Russian military weapons in Ukraine. Russians used Donbas as a testing ground. Collected photographic evidence is only the tip of the iceberg. Occupants in Ukraine test the latest equipment in radio intelligence, electronic warfare, communications and troop control.Russia has some big flashbacks or something like a re-experiencing of a past from USSR. We can compare Ukrainian crisis (this more then one year war) with the Cuban Missile Crisis, also known as the October Crisis in 1962. The world is at the threshold of new round of the cold war. Ukrainians love their country and know how to protect it. Just look how Russian mercenaries fight in Eastern Ukraine. And what the hell are Russians doing there?https://www.youtube.com...
Death23
Posts: 779
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6/18/2015 9:24:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 4:44:57 AM, Nowak wrote:
Does international community know something about currently situation in Eastern part of Ukraine.Infrastructure of the Eastern regions is completely destroyed. War between Russia and Ukraine lasts about a year. Russia is experiencing its entire arsenal of weapons in order to kill Ukrainians. The official number of people killed in the invasion has already reached 6,500 killed from Ukrainian side, the death toll from the Russian side very carefully concealed. OSCE and international negotiations does not particularly help and turn to a blind corner. Please read this interesting and factual article about who really uses Russian military weapons in Ukraine. Russians used Donbas as a testing ground. Collected photographic evidence is only the tip of the iceberg. Occupants in Ukraine test the latest equipment in radio intelligence, electronic warfare, communications and troop control.Russia has some big flashbacks or something like a re-experiencing of a past from USSR. We can compare Ukrainian crisis (this more then one year war) with the Cuban Missile Crisis, also known as the October Crisis in 1962. The world is at the threshold of new round of the cold war. Ukrainians love their country and know how to protect it. Just look how Russian mercenaries fight in Eastern Ukraine. And what the hell are Russians doing there?https://www.youtube.com...

What's in it for America?
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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6/18/2015 10:22:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't think that the United States should help Ukraine... it would only contribute to a worsening of our relations with Russia. Ukraine isn't in NATO, it isn't within our national interests to do so, and frankly the Europeans can deal with this regional issue.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
smelisox
Posts: 849
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6/19/2015 3:26:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 9:24:53 PM, Death23 wrote:
At 6/18/2015 4:44:57 AM, Nowak wrote:
Does international community know something about currently situation in Eastern part of Ukraine.Infrastructure of the Eastern regions is completely destroyed. War between Russia and Ukraine lasts about a year. Russia is experiencing its entire arsenal of weapons in order to kill Ukrainians. The official number of people killed in the invasion has already reached 6,500 killed from Ukrainian side, the death toll from the Russian side very carefully concealed. OSCE and international negotiations does not particularly help and turn to a blind corner. Please read this interesting and factual article about who really uses Russian military weapons in Ukraine. Russians used Donbas as a testing ground. Collected photographic evidence is only the tip of the iceberg. Occupants in Ukraine test the latest equipment in radio intelligence, electronic warfare, communications and troop control.Russia has some big flashbacks or something like a re-experiencing of a past from USSR. We can compare Ukrainian crisis (this more then one year war) with the Cuban Missile Crisis, also known as the October Crisis in 1962. The world is at the threshold of new round of the cold war. Ukrainians love their country and know how to protect it. Just look how Russian mercenaries fight in Eastern Ukraine. And what the hell are Russians doing there?https://www.youtube.com...

What's in it for America?

They're fellow human beings? Or do you not believe in helping people?
Death23
Posts: 779
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6/19/2015 4:33:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/19/2015 3:26:39 AM, smelisox wrote:
At 6/18/2015 9:24:53 PM, Death23 wrote:

What's in it for America?

They're fellow human beings? Or do you not believe in helping people?

The answer is that there's nothing in it for America to help the armed forces of Ukraine in their fight against Russia. Picking a fight with Russia would be a foolish and costly mistake.
smelisox
Posts: 849
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6/19/2015 4:42:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/19/2015 4:33:34 AM, Death23 wrote:
At 6/19/2015 3:26:39 AM, smelisox wrote:
At 6/18/2015 9:24:53 PM, Death23 wrote:

What's in it for America?

They're fellow human beings? Or do you not believe in helping people?

The answer is that there's nothing in it for America to help the armed forces of Ukraine in their fight against Russia. Picking a fight with Russia would be a foolish and costly mistake.

There is something in it, saving human lives. If you truly believe lives are not worth saving, I don't believe you deserve to be called a homo sapiens. You're a machine, with cold hard statistics.

"If the amount of money earned is not profitable, don't save the lives."

You're a machine man, with a machine heart, a machine mind.
slo1
Posts: 4,314
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6/19/2015 9:09:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 4:44:57 AM, Nowak wrote:
Does international community know something about currently situation in Eastern part of Ukraine.Infrastructure of the Eastern regions is completely destroyed. War between Russia and Ukraine lasts about a year. Russia is experiencing its entire arsenal of weapons in order to kill Ukrainians. The official number of people killed in the invasion has already reached 6,500 killed from Ukrainian side, the death toll from the Russian side very carefully concealed. OSCE and international negotiations does not particularly help and turn to a blind corner. Please read this interesting and factual article about who really uses Russian military weapons in Ukraine. Russians used Donbas as a testing ground. Collected photographic evidence is only the tip of the iceberg. Occupants in Ukraine test the latest equipment in radio intelligence, electronic warfare, communications and troop control.Russia has some big flashbacks or something like a re-experiencing of a past from USSR. We can compare Ukrainian crisis (this more then one year war) with the Cuban Missile Crisis, also known as the October Crisis in 1962. The world is at the threshold of new round of the cold war. Ukrainians love their country and know how to protect it. Just look how Russian mercenaries fight in Eastern Ukraine. And what the hell are Russians doing there?https://www.youtube.com...

What would Ronald Reagan do?
Death23
Posts: 779
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6/19/2015 1:13:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/19/2015 4:42:36 AM, smelisox wrote:
At 6/19/2015 4:33:34 AM, Death23 wrote:

The answer is that there's nothing in it for America to help the armed forces of Ukraine in their fight against Russia. Picking a fight with Russia would be a foolish and costly mistake.

There is something in it, saving human lives. If you truly believe lives are not worth saving, I don't believe you deserve to be called a homo sapiens. You're a machine, with cold hard statistics.

"If the amount of money earned is not profitable, don't save the lives."

You're a machine man, with a machine heart, a machine mind.

Oh please spare me your ad hominem bologna. Helping the armed forces of Ukraine in their fight against Russia doesn't have anything to do with saving lives. What would we do? Give the Ukrainians weapons? Order American war planes bomb Russian targets? That course of action doesn't save any lives - It results in more deaths. What's proposed by the OP would not be a humanitarian operation, and it's absurd for you to characterize it that way and then call me heartless for considering the risks, costs, and benefits for America to get involved.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
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6/19/2015 2:10:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
No.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
ironslippers
Posts: 509
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6/19/2015 2:34:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 4:44:57 AM, Nowak wrote:
Does international community know something about currently situation in Eastern part of Ukraine.Infrastructure of the Eastern regions is completely destroyed. War between Russia and Ukraine lasts about a year. Russia is experiencing its entire arsenal of weapons in order to kill Ukrainians. The official number of people killed in the invasion has already reached 6,500 killed from Ukrainian side, the death toll from the Russian side very carefully concealed. OSCE and international negotiations does not particularly help and turn to a blind corner. Please read this interesting and factual article about who really uses Russian military weapons in Ukraine. Russians used Donbas as a testing ground. Collected photographic evidence is only the tip of the iceberg. Occupants in Ukraine test the latest equipment in radio intelligence, electronic warfare, communications and troop control.Russia has some big flashbacks or something like a re-experiencing of a past from USSR. We can compare Ukrainian crisis (this more then one year war) with the Cuban Missile Crisis, also known as the October Crisis in 1962. The world is at the threshold of new round of the cold war. Ukrainians love their country and know how to protect it. Just look how Russian mercenaries fight in Eastern Ukraine. And what the hell are Russians doing there?https://www.youtube.com...

It saddens me that that this is killing the people of Ukraine. What started as a protest against government coruption and injustice turned into coup. the victors oligarchs now calling themselves capitalists, just as corupt and injust. The oppportunity was fitting with most of the worlds attention on the sochi olympics, if it wasn't for the olympics Putin would have nipped this in the bud.

First US fail is, without meaningful comunication with the parties involved, starts shooting it's mouth off. The new government (Ukraine) screwed itself, won the prize but now doesn't have the intelligence or resources move forward.

another US fail is failure to look at the history, Kiev is the origin of the russian (russo) and has always been a player in russian politik. This tie will not be severed easily.

The largest US fail is not letting other regional nations have their say regard this issue. if the EU or Germany want to create a coilition, the US should support it's alliances.

But I've enjoyed myself so much in the Middle East
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
smelisox
Posts: 849
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6/19/2015 3:26:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Then let the americans die. At least it's better than dying because of the awful ways your country ruins the middle east and africa.
Death23
Posts: 779
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6/19/2015 5:40:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/19/2015 3:26:29 PM, smelisox wrote:
Then let the americans die. At least it's better than dying because of the awful ways your country ruins the middle east and africa.

Shut up.
ironslippers
Posts: 509
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6/19/2015 5:42:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/19/2015 3:26:29 PM, smelisox wrote:
Then let the americans die. At least it's better than dying because of the awful ways your country ruins the middle east and africa.

Have you already forgotten that USA was INVITED to that party
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/19/2015 8:03:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yay more weapons in the hands of more people!

Then when they use it to blow something up that we don't like we can all sit around and say "those blasted terrorists!". Sounds like fun.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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6/19/2015 9:15:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/19/2015 2:34:08 PM, ironslippers wrote:

another US fail is failure to look at the history, Kiev is the origin of the russian (russo) and has always been a player in russian politik. This tie will not be severed easily.

The largest US fail is not letting other regional nations have their say regard this issue. if the EU or Germany want to create a coilition, the US should support it's alliances.

I couldn't agree more.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
THEBOMB
Posts: 2,872
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6/19/2015 9:44:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Russian foreign policy has historically been about expanding their borders such that they cannot be surrounded by enemies (just look at their size...) If you look through Russia's history, it's full of time's when Russia was completed surrounded by enemies. Over and over and over again. The fear of being surrounded drives their foreign policy apparatus. Look at how the USSR was organized: a bunch of countries with puppet governments surrounding Russia on all sides. Until the 1960s, this included China who became an enemy of Russia's through the 1960s to 80s but did not have the military capability to take on the USSR and was only very slowly beginning to become somewhat warmer toward the US: a military alliance against the USSR would be a long ways away.

This is currently a map of NATO (notice how NATO is pushing right up against Russia's western borders): http://www.nato.int...

The west is no friend of Russia's. Russia is trapped by their enemies to the west. Currently, what Russia seems to be doing is flexing their muscles so to speak and showing the world that they are a force to be reckoned with. But, letting Russia win is no option: Russia wants to put and keep as much ground between the United States/NATO/West and them as possible, by allowing Russia to "hold" another country right on the border of NATO, they will be prompted to do whatever they feel is necessary to consolidate and retain their holdings (remember: the country believes they are surrounded by those who actively work to undermine them.)
smelisox
Posts: 849
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6/20/2015 2:58:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/19/2015 5:40:02 PM, Death23 wrote:
At 6/19/2015 3:26:29 PM, smelisox wrote:
Then let the americans die. At least it's better than dying because of the awful ways your country ruins the middle east and africa.

Shut up.

Thanks for proving my point. Go to the border and shoot some mexicans trying to have a better life or whatever it is you do in your spare time.
Death23
Posts: 779
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6/20/2015 1:25:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/20/2015 2:58:23 AM, smelisox wrote:
At 6/19/2015 5:40:02 PM, Death23 wrote:
At 6/19/2015 3:26:29 PM, smelisox wrote:
Then let the americans die. At least it's better than dying because of the awful ways your country ruins the middle east and africa.

Shut up.

Thanks for proving my point. Go to the border and shoot some mexicans trying to have a better life or whatever it is you do in your spare time.

Shut up.
smelisox
Posts: 849
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6/20/2015 4:55:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think we've reached the true epitome of debate, thank you for representing your country's idiocy.
smelisox
Posts: 849
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6/20/2015 4:58:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Also, rather ironic that you (I'll assume) love guns and your first amendment, but let's forget the one about free speech one right?
Death23
Posts: 779
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6/20/2015 8:39:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/20/2015 4:55:20 PM, smelisox wrote:
I think we've reached the true epitome of debate, thank you for representing your country's idiocy.

Shut up.