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Goodbye Confederate Flag?

Saint_of_Me
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6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
jkerr3
Posts: 177
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6/22/2015 7:25:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

Believe it or not the confederate flag offends people, the confederacy supported slavery so much so they went to war to try and keep it going. I understand that there is more to the confederate than slavery but that is a piece of its history and many people would prefer to have nothing to do with it. It's akin to the swastika, to many people it represents the holocaust. Does it have other meanings? Yes it does. But people still find it offensive and hence its symbol has no place in out government.

People can still hang a confederate flag in front of their house or property. All were asking is that the government doesn't support an organization with such a strong history of violence and oppression.
Fly
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6/22/2015 8:28:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
In addition to the usual comments on that flag, I will add that it is a much smaller part of the state's history than the US flag. Why do so many forget that?
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Saint_of_Me
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6/22/2015 8:31:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 8:28:25 PM, Fly wrote:
In addition to the usual comments on that flag, I will add that it is a much smaller part of the state's history than the US flag. Why do so many forget that?

This is true. And if I recall they also fly the US flag above the Confederate one.

Also. Besides denoting an era of their history--a very important one; they were the 1st state to secede from the Union id 1861--I think the flag also serves as a sort of icon for their mindset. Their collective "zeitgeist" if you will. So, to take it away from them is to eradicate from that state a symbol of its identity.
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Fly
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6/22/2015 8:39:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It is one thing to be on the wrong side of history at a point in time. It is another thing entirely to be proud of it for over a century after the fact as Confederate battle flag wavers are.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Mhykiel
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6/22/2015 10:30:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

I do not fly the Confederate flag because the country I want to support is the United states of America. the confederacy was an attempt to establish a new country. It had it's own constitution.

Because of that fact I don't think any U.S. of A. Government office or building to display with honor any flag not a state or union flag.

Now. As for a private citizen, they have the freedom of speech to do so. Where do we draw the line? How can we say one symbol no and another yes. What more is symbols change meaning as time goes on. they acquire, lose, and re-acquire all kinds of meanings.

ONE thing about wanting freedom of speech. It means sooner than later YOU WILL BE OFFENDED by what someone says or does.

It's the Liberal pieces of shizit that are the biggest racist, bigots, and haters around.

Though I don't fly the confederate flag. I don't think any government office should. I completely and utterly reject any attempt to dissuade someone from doing so.

You know what I find stupidly offensive.. That I can't karaoke a Lil Wayne song because Nigga is a word only a black president can say in public.

If it is offensive, then don't use it so obsessively.
popculturepooka
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6/22/2015 11:28:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.


You mean it's colorful history of racism?

But what say you??
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
jkerr3
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6/23/2015 11:28:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 10:30:52 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

I do not fly the Confederate flag because the country I want to support is the United states of America. the confederacy was an attempt to establish a new country. It had it's own constitution.

Because of that fact I don't think any U.S. of A. Government office or building to display with honor any flag not a state or union flag.

Now. As for a private citizen, they have the freedom of speech to do so. Where do we draw the line? How can we say one symbol no and another yes. What more is symbols change meaning as time goes on. they acquire, lose, and re-acquire all kinds of meanings.

ONE thing about wanting freedom of speech. It means sooner than later YOU WILL BE OFFENDED by what someone says or does.

It's the Liberal pieces of shizit that are the biggest racist, bigots, and haters around.

Though I don't fly the confederate flag. I don't think any government office should. I completely and utterly reject any attempt to dissuade someone from doing so.

You know what I find stupidly offensive.. That I can't karaoke a Lil Wayne song because Nigga is a word only a black president can say in public.

If it is offensive, then don't use it so obsessively.

When did Obama ever publicly use the N word?
skyfish
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6/23/2015 12:14:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.
I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

the BATTLE flag of the treasonous insurrection that started the civil war is far too divisive to be displayed on public property or any publicly funded memorial.

it should not only be taken down, but is should be taken down NOW before the SC senator's body is brought to the state capital.

no one coming to see his body an morn his murder, should have to walk past that flag on display.

its an insult and its wrong.
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YamaVonKarma
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6/23/2015 12:30:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

I say that I walk a very slippery line with my opinion.
I'd like to see everyone who still supports that failed rebellion treated as war criminals and punished, yet I also know that such lets my more authoritarian side take control. So.. I have to ignore the part of me that says to crucify any redneck who has the balls to speak ill of me and relish in their poverty.

Still. I find the very notion of supporting the Confederacy grounds to be considered an enemy of the state. I also find taking Pride in something as asinine as a war about slavery (it was about State's Rights to own slaves and other thing) pitiful.
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Vox_Veritas
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6/23/2015 12:31:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I can totally understand that people don't want for America's slave past to be celebrated. However, at the same time there should be limits to how far this limiting should go. For instance, these days there's a mindset that America should never honor anyone who ever owned a slave or was in support of segregation, which basically means people are trying to prohibit the honoring of any Southerner who lived before the 1960s. Prejudice and racism is one aspect of a person; people are more than the sum of their faults. If a Southern Governor owned slaves but is notable for a lot of other stuff, then he should be honored no less than an equivalent Northern Governor who didn't own slaves (people tend to forget that the North had horrific sweatshops and that the Northern-led Federal Government expelled Indians from their native lands; I would've cited Andrew Jackson, but then I realized he was a Southerner and a slave owner). We certainly shouldn't honor slavery or racism, but we should recognize that the North made its own mistakes and that the South should be able to be proud of many aspects of its history in the same manner as other regions of the United States.

For instance, the Confederate States of America was basically a Pro-Slavery nation (despite the fact that most Southerners didn't own any slaves at all). However, it also had the guts to rebel against the Federal Government and it resisted the North's advance for slightly over 4 years despite the massive disadvantages it faced, kicking the North's butt in many, many significant battles. That's certainly admirable by any standard.
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Saint_of_Me
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6/23/2015 12:47:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 10:30:52 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

I do not fly the Confederate flag because the country I want to support is the United states of America. the confederacy was an attempt to establish a new country. It had it's own constitution.

Because of that fact I don't think any U.S. of A. Government office or building to display with honor any flag not a state or union flag.

Now. As for a private citizen, they have the freedom of speech to do so. Where do we draw the line? How can we say one symbol no and another yes. What more is symbols change meaning as time goes on. they acquire, lose, and re-acquire all kinds of meanings.

ONE thing about wanting freedom of speech. It means sooner than later YOU WILL BE OFFENDED by what someone says or does.

It's the Liberal pieces of shizit that are the biggest racist, bigots, and haters around.

Though I don't fly the confederate flag. I don't think any government office should. I completely and utterly reject any attempt to dissuade someone from doing so.

You know what I find stupidly offensive.. That I can't karaoke a Lil Wayne song because Nigga is a word only a black president can say in public.

If it is offensive, then don't use it so obsessively.

Thanks...good post, sir.

I agree with all of it. Except your opinion that flying the flag in anyway denigrates one's perceived Patriotism. You must remember that to the South--the Confederacy--the Civil War was all about States Rights. They looked at it as being not that much difference in its cause from that of the American Revolution.

And they called it "The War of Northern Agression." LOL

I see the stars and bars as simply another icon that denotes a period of our history. And by and large Southerners are some of the most patriotic--even Nationalist--folks you'll ever meet.
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Vox_Veritas
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6/23/2015 12:47:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
One other thing that people should keep in mind:

The debate was initially over slavery and slavery was always the primary outward reason for hostilities between the North and South, but at the same time it was more than this. The slavery debate, along with natural trends, resulted in slavery basically representing what the South was and abolitionism representing the North's way. Because of this, one might've seen Southerners who sympathized with the plight of slaves supporting slavery, because it was seen as the "way of life" for the South (despite the aforementioned fact that the large majority of Southerners owned no slaves). The North saw slavery not only as a moral issue, but as a battle against that brutish South. Because of this reason, had the North offered the South a solution that would've abolished slavery but also not have destroyed the South's economy, the South still probably would've rejected it just because it would've been a victory for the North (or so they would've seen it).
The issue itself ultimately evolved into a struggle between the North's attempt to dominate the backwards South and the South's pride and resentment towards the North, despite the fact that the North was ultimately right about the said issue of controversy.
Pride and regional nationalism was perhaps just as important a factor in the slavery debate and the formation of the CSA as the actual issue of slavery was. As a result, calling the Confederacy nothing more than a wicked slave nation is too simplistic. At its core it was founded upon Southern regional nationalism and pride.

This is the way many, many issues are. Even today, probably many people's stances on issues such as abortion are rooted in pride in their ideology and not wanting to admit the other side might be right. Why? Because Liberals and Conservatives might as well live on two different worlds, and they both resent each other and often want to "conquer" the other.

To sum up what I said, regional pride was perhaps as important as slavery in influencing the slave debate, the formation of the CSA, and the American Civil War.
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YamaVonKarma
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6/23/2015 12:47:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Alright. Let's think of this another way.

I'm not allowed to wear an Iron Cross or anything representing Prussia/Anything bearing the swastika/Anything representing the Red, White, and Black German flag. This is because America and most of the world has agreed that the Third Reich was a horrible era.

On the other hand, the Confederate Flag is allowed to be worn by students and apparently flown over a state building. The Confederacy also had horrible ideals and did horrible things, while not quite to the same extent as the Nazis.

What is the difference?
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Saint_of_Me
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6/23/2015 12:55:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 12:14:33 PM, skyfish wrote:
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.
I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

the BATTLE flag of the treasonous insurrection that started the civil war is far too divisive to be displayed on public property or any publicly funded memorial.

it should not only be taken down, but is should be taken down NOW before the SC senator's body is brought to the state capital.

no one coming to see his body an morn his murder, should have to walk past that flag on display.

its an insult and its wrong.

Your opinion only, sir.

And one that is very biased and inaccurate on some points as well.

The Southern states that seceded when Lincoln was elected POTUS in 1860 did so because they percieved it as a sort of "last straw" for them. One in a series of things that they felt were threatening their very livelihood. They were already paying taxes for Northern industry and infrastructure and many other entities they did not utilize.

Too. the Republican-dominated Congress very rarely passed any legislation that benefited the South. Thus, they clung to the old battle cry of the Founding Fathers regarding Kin George Tyranny: "No taxation without representation."

Indeed, many southerner considered their cause in the War of Northern Aggression to be not that much different from America's in the Revolutionary War from 1776-1783.

The stars and bars is simply one of many icons and symbols that denotes an era of our history. The South is as Patriotic as anywhere--perhaps more so.

Anybody who feels offended by it or thinks the flag racist is wearing their fragile emotions on their sleeve. And..well..basically needs to get out a bit more. LOL
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Vox_Veritas
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6/23/2015 12:57:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 12:47:46 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Alright. Let's think of this another way.

I'm not allowed to wear an Iron Cross or anything representing Prussia/Anything bearing the swastika/Anything representing the Red, White, and Black German flag. This is because America and most of the world has agreed that the Third Reich was a horrible era.

Do you by any chance live in Europe? Because I'm pretty sure that you're allowed to have Nazi symbols in the USA.

On the other hand, the Confederate Flag is allowed to be worn by students and apparently flown over a state building. The Confederacy also had horrible ideals and did horrible things, while not quite to the same extent as the Nazis.

What is the difference?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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YamaVonKarma
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6/23/2015 1:01:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 12:57:22 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/23/2015 12:47:46 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Alright. Let's think of this another way.

I'm not allowed to wear an Iron Cross or anything representing Prussia/Anything bearing the swastika/Anything representing the Red, White, and Black German flag. This is because America and most of the world has agreed that the Third Reich was a horrible era.

Do you by any chance live in Europe? Because I'm pretty sure that you're allowed to have Nazi symbols in the USA.
Nope. I'm an American.
On the other hand, the Confederate Flag is allowed to be worn by students and apparently flown over a state building. The Confederacy also had horrible ideals and did horrible things, while not quite to the same extent as the Nazis.

What is the difference?
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Fly
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6/23/2015 1:13:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 12:47:14 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/22/2015 10:30:52 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

I do not fly the Confederate flag because the country I want to support is the United states of America. the confederacy was an attempt to establish a new country. It had it's own constitution.

Because of that fact I don't think any U.S. of A. Government office or building to display with honor any flag not a state or union flag.

Now. As for a private citizen, they have the freedom of speech to do so. Where do we draw the line? How can we say one symbol no and another yes. What more is symbols change meaning as time goes on. they acquire, lose, and re-acquire all kinds of meanings.

ONE thing about wanting freedom of speech. It means sooner than later YOU WILL BE OFFENDED by what someone says or does.

It's the Liberal pieces of shizit that are the biggest racist, bigots, and haters around.

Though I don't fly the confederate flag. I don't think any government office should. I completely and utterly reject any attempt to dissuade someone from doing so.

You know what I find stupidly offensive.. That I can't karaoke a Lil Wayne song because Nigga is a word only a black president can say in public.

If it is offensive, then don't use it so obsessively.

Thanks...good post, sir.

I agree with all of it. Except your opinion that flying the flag in anyway denigrates one's perceived Patriotism. You must remember that to the South--the Confederacy--the Civil War was all about States Rights. They looked at it as being not that much difference in its cause from that of the American Revolution.

And they called it "The War of Northern Agression." LOL

I see the stars and bars as simply another icon that denotes a period of our history. And by and large Southerners are some of the most patriotic--even Nationalist--folks you'll ever meet.

Um... do you also agree with the part where he said that it should NOT be flown over a government building? Because that stands in direct contradiction to your opinion as stated in your OP...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
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Saint_of_Me
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6/23/2015 1:14:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 12:30:12 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

I say that I walk a very slippery line with my opinion.
I'd like to see everyone who still supports that failed rebellion treated as war criminals and punished, yet I also know that such lets my more authoritarian side take control. So.. I have to ignore the part of me that says to crucify any redneck who has the balls to speak ill of me and relish in their poverty.

Still. I find the very notion of supporting the Confederacy grounds to be considered an enemy of the state. I also find taking Pride in something as asinine as a war about slavery (it was about State's Rights to own slaves and other thing) pitiful.

Hmm..doesn't sound like a slipper line to me. Sounds like full-on Libtard Rhetoric.
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Saint_of_Me
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6/23/2015 1:17:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 1:13:35 PM, Fly wrote:
At 6/23/2015 12:47:14 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/22/2015 10:30:52 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

I do not fly the Confederate flag because the country I want to support is the United states of America. the confederacy was an attempt to establish a new country. It had it's own constitution.

Because of that fact I don't think any U.S. of A. Government office or building to display with honor any flag not a state or union flag.

Now. As for a private citizen, they have the freedom of speech to do so. Where do we draw the line? How can we say one symbol no and another yes. What more is symbols change meaning as time goes on. they acquire, lose, and re-acquire all kinds of meanings.

ONE thing about wanting freedom of speech. It means sooner than later YOU WILL BE OFFENDED by what someone says or does.

It's the Liberal pieces of shizit that are the biggest racist, bigots, and haters around.

Though I don't fly the confederate flag. I don't think any government office should. I completely and utterly reject any attempt to dissuade someone from doing so.

You know what I find stupidly offensive.. That I can't karaoke a Lil Wayne song because Nigga is a word only a black president can say in public.

If it is offensive, then don't use it so obsessively.

Thanks...good post, sir.

I agree with all of it. Except your opinion that flying the flag in anyway denigrates one's perceived Patriotism. You must remember that to the South--the Confederacy--the Civil War was all about States Rights. They looked at it as being not that much difference in its cause from that of the American Revolution.

And they called it "The War of Northern Agression." LOL

I see the stars and bars as simply another icon that denotes a period of our history. And by and large Southerners are some of the most patriotic--even Nationalist--folks you'll ever meet.

Um... do you also agree with the part where he said that it should NOT be flown over a government building? Because that stands in direct contradiction to your opinion as stated in your OP...

Oops..no. I missed that part in your OP I reckon.

As I said in my OP--I fully support the right of the Great State of South Carolina to fly their Confederate Flag wherever they wish. To prohibit that is to denigrate their !st Amendment Rights. (As long as they fly the US Flag next to it, or above it. As they usually do!)
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skyfish
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6/23/2015 1:26:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 8:31:10 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
to take it away from them is to eradicate from that state a symbol of its identity.

no one is talking about taking it away from them... just don't fly it on public property.

it belongs in a museum and history books.
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Burzmali
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6/23/2015 1:32:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 11:28:54 AM, jkerr3 wrote:
At 6/22/2015 10:30:52 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

I do not fly the Confederate flag because the country I want to support is the United states of America. the confederacy was an attempt to establish a new country. It had it's own constitution.

Because of that fact I don't think any U.S. of A. Government office or building to display with honor any flag not a state or union flag.

Now. As for a private citizen, they have the freedom of speech to do so. Where do we draw the line? How can we say one symbol no and another yes. What more is symbols change meaning as time goes on. they acquire, lose, and re-acquire all kinds of meanings.

ONE thing about wanting freedom of speech. It means sooner than later YOU WILL BE OFFENDED by what someone says or does.

It's the Liberal pieces of shizit that are the biggest racist, bigots, and haters around.

Though I don't fly the confederate flag. I don't think any government office should. I completely and utterly reject any attempt to dissuade someone from doing so.

You know what I find stupidly offensive.. That I can't karaoke a Lil Wayne song because Nigga is a word only a black president can say in public.

If it is offensive, then don't use it so obsessively.

When did Obama ever publicly use the N word?

He said it on Marc Maron's "WTF" podcast recently. Some folks seem to think it was an egregious use of offensive, inflammatory language. But Obama was making a clear point about race, and using the word seemed appropriate to me.
Fly
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6/23/2015 2:00:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 1:17:22 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/23/2015 1:13:35 PM, Fly wrote:
At 6/23/2015 12:47:14 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/22/2015 10:30:52 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

I do not fly the Confederate flag because the country I want to support is the United states of America. the confederacy was an attempt to establish a new country. It had it's own constitution.

Because of that fact I don't think any U.S. of A. Government office or building to display with honor any flag not a state or union flag.

Now. As for a private citizen, they have the freedom of speech to do so. Where do we draw the line? How can we say one symbol no and another yes. What more is symbols change meaning as time goes on. they acquire, lose, and re-acquire all kinds of meanings.

ONE thing about wanting freedom of speech. It means sooner than later YOU WILL BE OFFENDED by what someone says or does.

It's the Liberal pieces of shizit that are the biggest racist, bigots, and haters around.

Though I don't fly the confederate flag. I don't think any government office should. I completely and utterly reject any attempt to dissuade someone from doing so.

You know what I find stupidly offensive.. That I can't karaoke a Lil Wayne song because Nigga is a word only a black president can say in public.

If it is offensive, then don't use it so obsessively.

Thanks...good post, sir.

I agree with all of it. Except your opinion that flying the flag in anyway denigrates one's perceived Patriotism. You must remember that to the South--the Confederacy--the Civil War was all about States Rights. They looked at it as being not that much difference in its cause from that of the American Revolution.

And they called it "The War of Northern Agression." LOL

I see the stars and bars as simply another icon that denotes a period of our history. And by and large Southerners are some of the most patriotic--even Nationalist--folks you'll ever meet.

Um... do you also agree with the part where he said that it should NOT be flown over a government building? Because that stands in direct contradiction to your opinion as stated in your OP...

Oops..no. I missed that part in your OP I reckon.

As I said in my OP--I fully support the right of the Great State of South Carolina to fly their Confederate Flag wherever they wish. To prohibit that is to denigrate their !st Amendment Rights. (As long as they fly the US Flag next to it, or above it. As they usually do!)

Ok-- that clears up the contradiction in your posts. For the record, OP stands for Original Post or Original Poster (that's you). There is no "your OP" (as in me) in question here.

I'm afraid you do not realize that this is not a question of refusing anyone their 1st Amendment rights. If the state stops flying the Confederate Battle Flag, it will be because its state representatives overwhelmingly voted to do so. In the meantime, what is happening is lobbying by the citizens to vote that way. It is all part of the constitutional democratic process, and there is nothing even close to a violation of it happening in this situation...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Saint_of_Me
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6/23/2015 2:54:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 1:13:35 PM, Fly wrote:
At 6/23/2015 12:47:14 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
At 6/22/2015 10:30:52 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

I do not fly the Confederate flag because the country I want to support is the United states of America. the confederacy was an attempt to establish a new country. It had it's own constitution.

Because of that fact I don't think any U.S. of A. Government office or building to display with honor any flag not a state or union flag.

Now. As for a private citizen, they have the freedom of speech to do so. Where do we draw the line? How can we say one symbol no and another yes. What more is symbols change meaning as time goes on. they acquire, lose, and re-acquire all kinds of meanings.

ONE thing about wanting freedom of speech. It means sooner than later YOU WILL BE OFFENDED by what someone says or does.

It's the Liberal pieces of shizit that are the biggest racist, bigots, and haters around.

Though I don't fly the confederate flag. I don't think any government office should. I completely and utterly reject any attempt to dissuade someone from doing so.

You know what I find stupidly offensive.. That I can't karaoke a Lil Wayne song because Nigga is a word only a black president can say in public.

If it is offensive, then don't use it so obsessively.

Thanks...good post, sir.

I agree with all of it. Except your opinion that flying the flag in anyway denigrates one's perceived Patriotism. You must remember that to the South--the Confederacy--the Civil War was all about States Rights. They looked at it as being not that much difference in its cause from that of the American Revolution.

And they called it "The War of Northern Agression." LOL

I see the stars and bars as simply another icon that denotes a period of our history. And by and large Southerners are some of the most patriotic--even Nationalist--folks you'll ever meet.

Um... do you also agree with the part where he said that it should NOT be flown over a government building? Because that stands in direct contradiction to your opinion as stated in your OP...

I mentioned is a previous post that I feel it should be allowed to fly over a Fed Facility so long as the US flag is also flown--either beside it or above it. (I believe this has been the standard practice, anyway, in SC.
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
dylancatlow
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6/23/2015 2:55:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 12:31:24 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

For instance, the Confederate States of America was basically a Pro-Slavery nation (despite the fact that most Southerners didn't own any slaves at all). However, it also had the guts to rebel against the Federal Government and it resisted the North's advance for slightly over 4 years despite the massive disadvantages it faced, kicking the North's butt in many, many significant battles. That's certainly admirable by any standard.

I see no reason to think courage or resistance are commendable when they are used to support evil causes.
Saint_of_Me
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6/23/2015 2:55:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 1:26:04 PM, skyfish wrote:
At 6/22/2015 8:31:10 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
to take it away from them is to eradicate from that state a symbol of its identity.

no one is talking about taking it away from them... just don't fly it on public property.

it belongs in a museum and history books.

Just like the US flag, you mean? LOL
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Saint_of_Me
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6/23/2015 3:04:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 1:01:57 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
At 6/23/2015 12:57:22 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/23/2015 12:47:46 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
Alright. Let's think of this another way.

I'm not allowed to wear an Iron Cross or anything representing Prussia/Anything bearing the swastika/Anything representing the Red, White, and Black German flag. This is because America and most of the world has agreed that the Third Reich was a horrible era.

Do you by any chance live in Europe? Because I'm pretty sure that you're allowed to have Nazi symbols in the USA.
Nope. I'm an American.
On the other hand, the Confederate Flag is allowed to be worn by students and apparently flown over a state building. The Confederacy also had horrible ideals and did horrible things, while not quite to the same extent as the Nazis.

What is the difference?

Really?

You're gonna go there? The Nazis? Gimme a break bro.

The Southern cause in the American Civil War was in no way, shape or form similar to the Nazi agenda in the 1930s and on into WWII.

Debate?

In fact it is my belief that to force the State to cease flying the flag is actually a move more closely related to Nazism, at it violates free speech and expression as is a form of Fascism.

Meanwhile..you just once again proved this..............

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
jnedwards11
Posts: 351
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6/23/2015 3:58:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/23/2015 2:55:04 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 6/23/2015 12:31:24 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

For instance, the Confederate States of America was basically a Pro-Slavery nation (despite the fact that most Southerners didn't own any slaves at all). However, it also had the guts to rebel against the Federal Government and it resisted the North's advance for slightly over 4 years despite the massive disadvantages it faced, kicking the North's butt in many, many significant battles. That's certainly admirable by any standard.

I see no reason to think courage or resistance are commendable when they are used to support evil causes.

Evil because you said so? What exactly makes the confederates so evil? Slavery? Racism? Black abuse? Because all three of these things were happening in the north throughout the civil war, and just as far beyond it as in the south (in each instance).

The only difference between the north and the south in terms of slavery during this era was that agriculture was no longer adequately profitable in the North and it was making people filthy rich in the south. But you deem southerners evil for resististing unconstitutional attempts to limit a clear right. For fearing for their lives after murders and insurrections had been incited among them. And finally, for resisting a president who promised to exacerbate these conditions unto absolute war.

You call that evil.... My definition is a little different. I consider ignoring a clear (and obviously legal) opportunity for peace and directly causing the deaths of 750,000 of your country men for purely political/financial gain to be a far greater evil.
jnedwards11
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6/23/2015 4:07:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 7:25:06 PM, jkerr3 wrote:
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

Believe it or not the confederate flag offends people, the confederacy supported slavery so much so they went to war to try and keep it going. I understand that there is more to the confederate than slavery but that is a piece of its history and many people would prefer to have nothing to do with it. It's akin to the swastika, to many people it represents the holocaust. Does it have other meanings? Yes it does. But people still find it offensive and hence its symbol has no place in out government.

People can still hang a confederate flag in front of their house or property. All were asking is that the government doesn't support an organization with such a strong history of violence and oppression.

Lol, I assume you believe all the violence and oppression that occurred under the American flag is excusable then? I guess building a city in the ashes of an Indian nation on the backs of slaves isnt as bad as I figured.....

What if the people that said government consist of insist upon flying this banner on their statehouse? Is making sure no one is offended more important than the fundamental American right of representative democracy?
jnedwards11
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6/23/2015 4:16:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/22/2015 10:30:52 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/22/2015 6:08:23 PM, Saint_of_Me wrote:
Seems like the days of the Confederate Flag flying over the South Caolina Capitol building are coming to an end. Their governor, Nikki whoever, plans to ask state lawmakers to tear it down in a press conference tomorrow.

Insiders says they will likely honor her wishes.

I think this in simply another example of the Nanny State rearing its ugly and PC-obsessed head. The move is an obvious political one, coming on the wake of the Charleston church shooting a couple weeks ago.

Why does government always do the wrong thing when violence rears its head? And throw money in the wrong places? Like they throw money at schools when they are not the problem with our kids becoming dummies?

So.....I say the Flag is only an icon of the state's colorful history, and is in no way a symbol or racism.

But what say you??

I do not fly the Confederate flag because the country I want to support is the United states of America. the confederacy was an attempt to establish a new country. It had it's own constitution.

Because of that fact I don't think any U.S. of A. Government office or building to display with honor any flag not a state or union flag.

Should those flags be removed against the consent of the majority of duly represented voters? Also, confederate emblems are depicted in the state flags of at least five different states, are you ok with those? (Since they are actual state flags?)

Now. As for a private citizen, they have the freedom of speech to do so. Where do we draw the line? How can we say one symbol no and another yes. What more is symbols change meaning as time goes on. they acquire, lose, and re-acquire all kinds of meanings.

ONE thing about wanting freedom of speech. It means sooner than later YOU WILL BE OFFENDED by what someone says or does.

It's the Liberal pieces of shizit that are the biggest racist, bigots, and haters around.

Though I don't fly the confederate flag. I don't think any government office should. I completely and utterly reject any attempt to dissuade someone from doing so.

You know what I find stupidly offensive.. That I can't karaoke a Lil Wayne song because Nigga is a word only a black president can say in public.

If it is offensive, then don't use it so obsessively.