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Future of the GOP?

wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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6/27/2015 10:23:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have serious doubts about the future of the GOP. They have shown a total lack of leadership since St. Ronald left office. (Much to my personal shame, I actually voted for Reagan in 1980.) GHWB was a close second to Jimmy Carter in ineffectiveness. GWB was a bad joke on the American public. With Romney, they simply lost touch with reality. Now they have 12 (?) vying for the nomination. That must be a record, or at least very close to it. (I tried to google for the record number, but couldn"t get a viable answer.)
What amazes me is that ALL these Republican potential candidates (with the possible exception of Lindsey Graham) are pandering to an ever diminishing extremist base. I don't see any of them addressing the issues of a broader base that would support them to a win in the general election. And believe me, their words in the primary race will come back to haunt them; they will either have to flip-flop their positions to gain support in the general election (thereby ticking off the minority base they are now pandering to), or stick with an ever decreasing minority base. The general election is still about 1-1/2 years away. Recent history shows the ability of the American public to rapidly change their position.

The primary debates should be more entertaining than a live broadcast of Ringling Bros., Barnum, and Bailey or a second grade playground brawl. It would not surprise me at all to see the Republican Party fracture and disintegrate during their 2016 National Convention. Not that I would not applaud it.

The fracture has already been demonstrated in their inability to govern after gaining seats in both houses of Congress in the 2014 elections. Particularly in the House of Representatives. Boehner simply cannot lead such a devisive group of people. Their only accomplishment has been obstructionism. That doesn't move the country forward.

But then, the Republican Party as a whole is not about progress, it is about regression.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
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6/28/2015 8:01:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The problem a republican candidate has is he has to be approved of by the extreme right or he won't get the nomination. Candidates on the extreme right or left don't win national elections.
Of course, if you are in something called " The rich man's party" in 2015, You may not expect the majority to vote for you. However if you are running against a grandmother who Now belongs to something called "the gay man's party" , "the poor man's party" , or "the Black man's party"................ As long as you are a moderate, people may look at Hillary and decide to vote for whatever idiot the GOP runs against her.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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6/29/2015 12:47:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think that assuming permanent political coalitions is kinda silly. Both parties have been "dying" at some point. I agree that on some issues the GOP is losing, but abortion seems to be slowly flipping to pro-life and death penalty support really isn't dying (it is around 60%, the historical average is 63%). GOP has winning issues like gun rights and economic freedom.

Is the GOP not doing so hot with my generation? Sure. But don't expect it to last forever.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,321
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6/29/2015 6:48:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/29/2015 12:47:24 AM, 16kadams wrote:
I think that assuming permanent political coalitions is kinda silly. Both parties have been "dying" at some point. I agree that on some issues the GOP is losing, but abortion seems to be slowly flipping to pro-life and death penalty support really isn't dying (it is around 60%, the historical average is 63%). GOP has winning issues like gun rights and economic freedom.

Is the GOP not doing so hot with my generation? Sure. But don't expect it to last forever.

Well I don't really know about dying, From 1955 to 1995 (that's a full forty tears with no breaks) The Dems held the majority of the House of reps

I'd say anything better than that is an improvement.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
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6/30/2015 10:33:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
1) for 2016 the republicans should adopt a new strategy. The gay marriage was a victory for the liberal and a defeat for conservatives. It seems obvious to me what the reaction should be. This will cost Hillary the White House. This is not so much about gay marriage it is more about how the liberals have taken over our country.
Same Sex marriage is nonsense. But if you consider all the persecution homosexuals have endured in the United States, you can see why they are owed some kind of compensation.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,078
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6/30/2015 10:39:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/27/2015 10:23:33 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
I have serious doubts about the future of the GOP. They have shown a total lack of leadership since St. Ronald left office. (Much to my personal shame, I actually voted for Reagan in 1980.) GHWB was a close second to Jimmy Carter in ineffectiveness. GWB was a bad joke on the American public. With Romney, they simply lost touch with reality. Now they have 12 (?) vying for the nomination. That must be a record, or at least very close to it. (I tried to google for the record number, but couldn"t get a viable answer.)
What amazes me is that ALL these Republican potential candidates (with the possible exception of Lindsey Graham) are pandering to an ever diminishing extremist base. I don't see any of them addressing the issues of a broader base that would support them to a win in the general election. And believe me, their words in the primary race will come back to haunt them; they will either have to flip-flop their positions to gain support in the general election (thereby ticking off the minority base they are now pandering to), or stick with an ever decreasing minority base. The general election is still about 1-1/2 years away. Recent history shows the ability of the American public to rapidly change their position.

The primary debates should be more entertaining than a live broadcast of Ringling Bros., Barnum, and Bailey or a second grade playground brawl. It would not surprise me at all to see the Republican Party fracture and disintegrate during their 2016 National Convention. Not that I would not applaud it.

The fracture has already been demonstrated in their inability to govern after gaining seats in both houses of Congress in the 2014 elections. Particularly in the House of Representatives. Boehner simply cannot lead such a devisive group of people. Their only accomplishment has been obstructionism. That doesn't move the country forward.

But then, the Republican Party as a whole is not about progress, it is about regression.

They're not finished just yet. If they're smart, they'll mostly back away from the gay marriage issue and it'll soon be dropped.
When Russia and China become more and more dangerous, the American public will likely become more in favor of stronger action against them, and the Democratic Party won't offer that as much as the GOP.
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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,078
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6/30/2015 10:40:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And the fact that they were able to win less than 365 days ago suggests they're not as fragmented as you suggest.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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xus00HAY
Posts: 1,394
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7/1/2015 8:20:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"If they're smart, they'll mostly back away from the gay marriage issue "
well yeah, but the democrats are dumb so they will keep at it.
Hillarys slogan for 2016 might be "Were Here. Were,queer, get used to it."
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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7/1/2015 8:44:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 10:39:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

If they're smart, they'll mostly back away from the gay marriage issue and it'll soon be :dropped.

That is one HUGE "if".
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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7/1/2015 8:49:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/30/2015 10:40:40 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
And the fact that they were able to win less than 365 days ago suggests they're not as fragmented as you suggest.

They become more outrageous, fanatical, and fragmented every day. And do you really think the things these wanna be candidates have said in the primary race will be allowed to be forgotten by the Dems in the general election? Hardly.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,321
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7/1/2015 8:50:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:44:27 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:39:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

If they're smart, they'll mostly back away from the gay marriage issue and it'll soon be :dropped.

That is one HUGE "if".

I'd say we would need another 40 years of Republican losses to come any where close to declaring death.
wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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7/1/2015 9:08:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/1/2015 8:50:14 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/1/2015 8:44:27 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
At 6/30/2015 10:39:15 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:

If they're smart, they'll mostly back away from the gay marriage issue and it'll soon be :dropped.

That is one HUGE "if".

I'd say we would need another 40 years of Republican losses to come any where close to declaring death.

You may be right. But I do not think they represent the majority of Americans today. Almost all of the potential 2016 candidates spend their pandering for votes to the minority far right politically and religiously. Minorities do not win elections.
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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7/1/2015 10:19:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/27/2015 10:23:33 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
I have serious doubts about the future of the GOP.

Before I start, lets just be honest and admit that you are going to have an extremely biased perspective analyzing a party who's ideology is opposite yours. If you can admit that, maybe we can have an honest conversation about the GOP instead of you foaming at the mouth and slandering them.

They have shown a total lack of leadership since St. Ronald left office

Newt Gingrich is a good example of a strong Republican leader in the post reagan era, and I would say there are a lot of leaders currently.

. (Much to my personal shame, I actually voted for Reagan in 1980.) GHWB was a close second to Jimmy Carter in ineffectiveness. GWB was a bad joke on the American public. With Romney, they simply lost touch with reality.

Romney was actually a pretty moderate candidate, if you want more information on why Romney lost, I suggest reading Ben Shapiros book on the issue. People actually agreed with Romney's policies more, he was just framed (incorrectly) as a bad person by presumably, people like you.

Now they have 12 (?) vying for the nomination. That must be a record, or at least very close to it. (I tried to google for the record number, but couldn"t get a viable answer.)
What amazes me is that ALL these Republican potential candidates (with the possible exception of Lindsey Graham) are pandering to an ever diminishing extremist base.

Lets be honest for a second, the extremist label has been an intellectually dishonest smear tactic since Barry Goldwater, the republican party lies on the moderate right as does the democratic party on the moderate left. If you want to discuss policies and why you disagree with the Republican party that's fine, but what it seems like so far is you just have to smear everyone who disagrees with you.

I don't see any of them addressing the issues of a broader base that would support them to a win in the general election.

I think if people cared more about fiscal policy the Republicans message of small government and tax cuts would win, unfortunately #LowerTaxes isn't very trendy to the young people, so social issues win. I think Republicans will lose based on that now but be on the right side of history later, maybe not on gay rights and the war on drugs but mostly everything else.

And believe me, their words in the primary race will come back to haunt them; they will either have to flip-flop their positions to gain support in the general election (thereby ticking off the minority base they are now pandering to), or stick with an ever decreasing minority base. The general election is still about 1-1/2 years away. Recent history shows the ability of the American public to rapidly change their position.

As much as you are extremely biased, you are right in this case, but not because what they are saying is wrong or nutty, but because the media have become unapologetic cheerleaders for the left. If more Republicans were like Ben Shapiro, Newt Gingrich or Ted Cruz they wouldn't get away with that.

The primary debates should be more entertaining than a live broadcast of Ringling Bros., Barnum, and Bailey or a second grade playground brawl. It would not surprise me at all to see the Republican Party fracture and disintegrate during their 2016 National Convention. Not that I would not applaud it.

I know political diversity is a foreign concept to you but some people might say it is a strength, not a weakness that Republicans have managed to adapt to the two party system by appealing to both moderates, conservatives and libertarians all at once under one banner.

The fracture has already been demonstrated in their inability to govern after gaining seats in both houses of Congress in the 2014 elections. Particularly in the House of Representatives. Boehner simply cannot lead such a devisive group of people. Their only accomplishment has been obstructionism. That doesn't move the country forward.

Your definition of forward and my definition of forward are two different things. Once you admit that for you "forward" means advancing a liberal agenda, we can discuss that agenda and the costs, benefits and risks of policies.

But then, the Republican Party as a whole is not about progress, it is about regression.

That's wholly subjective as mentioned earlier, the second you're honest about who you are and what you mean by these vague words like "progress" "and "forward" we can have an honest discussion. The thing is that I don't see Republicans doing this half as much as Democrats do, may the best candidate win in 2016 but I'm not going to sit here and attack your party or people in it, I want to discuss policies and ideas, as Eleanor Roosevelt said "Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, great minds discuss ideas". Lets get back to discussing ideas, shall we?
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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7/1/2015 10:31:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/27/2015 10:23:33 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
I have serious doubts about the future of the GOP. They have shown a total lack of leadership since St. Ronald left office. (Much to my personal shame, I actually voted for Reagan in 1980.) GHWB was a close second to Jimmy Carter in ineffectiveness. GWB was a bad joke on the American public. With Romney, they simply lost touch with reality. Now they have 12 (?) vying for the nomination. That must be a record, or at least very close to it. (I tried to google for the record number, but couldn"t get a viable answer.)
What amazes me is that ALL these Republican potential candidates (with the possible exception of Lindsey Graham) are pandering to an ever diminishing extremist base. I don't see any of them addressing the issues of a broader base that would support them to a win in the general election. And believe me, their words in the primary race will come back to haunt them; they will either have to flip-flop their positions to gain support in the general election (thereby ticking off the minority base they are now pandering to), or stick with an ever decreasing minority base. The general election is still about 1-1/2 years away. Recent history shows the ability of the American public to rapidly change their position.

The primary debates should be more entertaining than a live broadcast of Ringling Bros., Barnum, and Bailey or a second grade playground brawl. It would not surprise me at all to see the Republican Party fracture and disintegrate during their 2016 National Convention. Not that I would not applaud it.

The fracture has already been demonstrated in their inability to govern after gaining seats in both houses of Congress in the 2014 elections. Particularly in the House of Representatives. Boehner simply cannot lead such a devisive group of people. Their only accomplishment has been obstructionism. That doesn't move the country forward.

But then, the Republican Party as a whole is not about progress, it is about regression.

Also, your motorcycle is pretty awesome, just saying.