Total Posts:8|Showing Posts:1-8
Jump to topic:

Am I missing something?

dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/2/2015 3:22:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Greece was financially irresponsible, received massive bailouts despite failing to demonstrate any willingness to change its ways, and now demands even more money despite the fact that they will never be able to repay what they already owe. And on top of that, they are accusing Germany of exploiting them, despite the fact that Germany has absolutely nothing to gain by helping them. Are they really as childish as they seem, or is there more to it?
thett3
Posts: 14,334
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/2/2015 3:25:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yeah, I'd like an answer to this too. I'll admit I haven't read very much on the issue but it seems like it ought to be a "good riddance" type of thing. The euro is a breathtakingly stupid idea, really.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
TN05
Posts: 4,492
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/2/2015 3:45:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 3:22:20 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Greece was financially irresponsible, received massive bailouts despite failing to demonstrate any willingness to change its ways, and now demands even more money despite the fact that they will never be able to repay what they already owe. And on top of that, they are accusing Germany of exploiting them, despite the fact that Germany has absolutely nothing to gain by helping them. Are they really as childish as they seem, or is there more to it?

That's pretty much it, yeah. Greece is a sh*thole at this point. Communists and fascists got 48% of the vote in their last election. They are going to end up under Russia's thumb and we'll have to hope Turkey can balance their influence out.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/2/2015 3:52:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 3:22:20 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Greece was financially irresponsible, received massive bailouts despite failing to demonstrate any willingness to change its ways, and now demands even more money despite the fact that they will never be able to repay what they already owe. And on top of that, they are accusing Germany of exploiting them, despite the fact that Germany has absolutely nothing to gain by helping them. Are they really as childish as they seem, or is there more to it?

I wonder if we're on the verge of the first total collapse of a European state in the 21st century...
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/2/2015 3:59:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Greece is not the only culprit here. The Eurozone makes it impossible for the nations to adjust their currencies (because they have none of their own), and thus cannot better their exports, which especially in economic tumult is very important. You can imagine why they had the need to do this after the 08-crisis.

Germany benefits from a collective economic union in Europe. If Greece were to leave, Italy or France could as well, and this would eventually lead to a collapse of the Euro.

There's also the issue of mentality; Europe is not yet fully ready to treat every country the same way, so the idea of bailing out a state in crisis whenever necessary is still distant. There really needs to be a reconstruction of the entire architecture behind the Euro for things to work out, otherwise the whole idea could be dropped.

Naturally, the political union of the continent must not be affected negatively by any of this. We could still move toward a super-state.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/2/2015 4:11:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 3:59:40 PM, Mirza wrote:
Greece is not the only culprit here. The Eurozone makes it impossible for the nations to adjust their currencies (because they have none of their own), and thus cannot better their exports, which especially in economic tumult is very important. You can imagine why they had the need to do this after the 08-crisis.


Is Greece even that big of an exporter compared to other European countries? Why is it struggling soooo much more than other countries. Also, Greece chose to sign on to the Euro, and most Greeks still prefer it to their old currency. It's not like the EU is responsible for making its currency ideal for every country; countries must choose for themselves whether or not it's a good idea.

Germany benefits from a collective economic union in Europe. If Greece were to leave, Italy or France could as well, and this would eventually lead to a collapse of the Euro.

True. But why would France or some other large economy decide to leave just because Greece does? Greece isn't even that big. Wouldn't the disaster that would follow a Grexit serve as a warning to other countries?


There's also the issue of mentality; Europe is not yet fully ready to treat every country the same way, so the idea of bailing out a state in crisis whenever necessary is still distant. There really needs to be a reconstruction of the entire architecture behind the Euro for things to work out, otherwise the whole idea could be dropped.


It seems like Europe just doesn't want to lend money to irresponsible countries like Greece, which is perfectly reasonable considering they would be unlikely to ever see that money again. I see no hint of racism at play.

Naturally, the political union of the continent must not be affected negatively by any of this. We could still move toward a super-state.
ironslippers
Posts: 509
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/2/2015 4:13:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 3:22:20 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Greece was financially irresponsible, received massive bailouts despite failing to demonstrate any willingness to change its ways, and now demands even more money despite the fact that they will never be able to repay what they already owe. And on top of that, they are accusing Germany of exploiting them, despite the fact that Germany has absolutely nothing to gain by helping them. Are they really as childish as they seem, or is there more to it?

Greece knows it's unable to pay back the loans. And I was under the impression that Tsipiras was elected under the pretence that they would default on the loan and exit the Eurozone (this is the vote on Sunday). The probability to default and remain in the eurozone is nil. Politics being as it is, the ECB doesn't want Greece to default, not only will they not get paid but it could pave the path for other countries to exit. Note: Greece still could exit the Eurozone (money) and remain in the European Union (policy)
As far as Germany taking advantage of Greece its very subjective, the Germans very wiley and the Greeks... Greeks. If Greece defaults, Who got the best end of the deal? It is actually German investors not the German Government with monies in play.
If You couple this with the issue of Immigration the fabric of the EU is unravelling. Uncharted territory Hold On it's going to get a little FU.
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/2/2015 4:28:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/2/2015 4:11:49 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Is Greece even that big of an exporter compared to other European countries? Why is it struggling soooo much more than other countries. Also, Greece chose to sign on to the Euro, and most Greeks still prefer it to their old currency. It's not like the EU is responsible for making its currency ideal for every country; countries must choose for themselves whether or not it's a good idea.
No matter which of their policies led to the crisis, or worsened what initially happened, the fact is that by staying in the Eurozone, their financial recuperation is severely limited. Without being offered excessive bailout (Greece alone can *not* pay their debt), and not having the options it would otherwise have without being a member of the Euro, they simply have very few means toward recovery. They have entered a vicious cycle.

True. But why would France or some other large economy decide to leave just because Greece does? Greece isn't even that big. Wouldn't the disaster that would follow a Grexit serve as a warning to other countries?
They wouldn't leave "just" because Greece does, but this would serve as a precedent to them in case they were to be in a similar situation. Also, a warning is not exactly what European countries wish to toss against one another; instability is the last thing needed, especially among the larger countries. Even Greece is important, both symbolically and as an experiment of the monetary union. Politically as well, in fact, since Russia and China helping it out in case it left would just make it align with them rather than those it is meant to be siding with.

It seems like Europe just doesn't want to lend money to irresponsible countries like Greece, which is perfectly reasonable considering they would be unlikely to ever see that money again. I see no hint of racism at play.
It's not about racism. We have harmony as European people, but every sovereign nation would not want to see its money being poured into countries that constantly need it.