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Gun Control & The Assault Rifle Lie

MakeSensePeopleDont
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7/4/2015 1:42:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
With all the talk of gun control and gun bans in the United States these days, I notice one reoccurring trend that just irritates me to no end and feel I need to address it. There is this trend not only from the community, but also from politicians, the media, blogs, and just about every halfwit out there with access to a public forum. This trend is all about banning Assault Rifles; Hunting Rifles are fine, it's the Assault Rifles that people hate and want gone. Well let's see if we can change some minds and educate some individuals here in this short piece. Please, feel free to post here, any questions, comments, concerns, etc. I will respond. Remember, we fear the things we don't know; we fear the things we don't understand. I hope each of you allow me to help you understand, this way we can each make a well-informed and educated decision on the subject at hand.

Allow me to explain the difference between the two rifles for you.

Let's clear up a misunderstanding first. Understand that Assault Rifles are not civilian sold (generally speaking with specific exceptions), Assault Rifles are military grade fire systems utilizing fully automatic fire capabilities. An AR-15 is NOT an Assault Rifle, it is semi-automatic just like hunting rifles, shotguns, and handguns. the "AR" in "AR-15" stands for "ArmaLite Rifle" which is the company that developed it in the 1950s. So, every time someone goes on TV or the Democrats stand up talking about banning "Assault Rifles" and they reference the AR-15, you now understand just how ignorant they are in the subject of fire systems and you now also understand that they have no business discussing the subject of gun control.

Assuming "hunting rifle" is referring to the generic "Hunting Rifle" understanding; meaning deer, elk, etc., a hunting rifle generally fires a 30 06 (thirty odd six) round. An AR-15 fires either a .223 or 5.56 round, some barrels fire the 7.62 NATO round. Since the 7.62 NATO is more powerful, let's use that here.

Although you hear how much worse the AR is compared to hunting rifles, this is not true. The 7.62 NATO round is actually a more humane round which is one reason why NATO adopted it to replace the 30 06 which was fired out of the M1 GARAND in WWII. Compared to the 7.62 NATO round, the 30 06 blows HOLES in the target, shredding everything inside as it tumbles through the mass it hits. The 7.62 round in the AR-15 hits a more centralized destructive path. I could attempt to explain this but showing would be better.

Here is a link to a Youtube video showing the differences in destructive power using a pumpkin as the target:
https://www.youtube.com...

What are the other differences? Well....cosmetic really. over the past decade or so, hunting rifles have undergone a transformation for ergonomic comfort and to market to the military communities as "similar look-and-feel" to what they are used to holding. Any serious fire system user will have their style, their feel, their comfort zone. for those not into fire systems that much, it's like having a car for years then getting a rental for the first time....it just doesn't feel right, the brakes are different, handling is a bit off, etc.

When we hear "Hunting Rifle" we immediately think of our father's or grandfather's style rifle as can be seen here:
http://www.browning.com...

Well these days, with ergonomic comfort such a big deal, manufacturers followed suit rebuilding the "shell" of the fire systems to make them more comfortable to hold. See this link:
http://www.remington.com...

Since manufacturers compete for government contracts, they get to talk with our military men and women to find out what works even better. So they have been changing the "shell" to be even more comfortable and familiar, attempting to make the fire system feel as natural as possible. Which brings us to the current style of:
http://www.ruger.com...

Here is the same fire system just a different shell. Just including this one to show that this system can be barreled and chambered for 30-06 as well:
http://onlylongrange.com...

Look familiar to what everybody wants to ban? That's because it is EXACTLY what everyone is screaming to ban. Funny party is, they are the same EXACT fire system, just with different "shells" based on comfort (and a few small changes in the mechanics providing better recoil protection and better efficiency. It's like you walking outside in a full length Amish style dress which is OK. The next day is hotter so for comfort you walk outside in a respectable knee length skirt and all of a sudden everyone starts screaming and calling the police saying you should never wear that again and you're the worst skum of the Earth and if you don't give up your skirt and go back to the Amish dress you're advocating for the murder of innocent men, women, and children; continue adding all the anti-gun supporter attack lines you wish here. And all of this anger and hatred why? Because you changed your shell to something a bit more comfortable.

But yup....that's it.....that is the BIG HUGE fuss in America today.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,390
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7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
slo1
Posts: 4,353
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7/4/2015 10:34:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/4/2015 1:42:59 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
With all the talk of gun control and gun bans in the United States these days, I notice one reoccurring trend that just irritates me to no end and feel I need to address it. There is this trend not only from the community, but also from politicians, the media, blogs, and just about every halfwit out there with access to a public forum. This trend is all about banning Assault Rifles; Hunting Rifles are fine, it's the Assault Rifles that people hate and want gone. Well let's see if we can change some minds and educate some individuals here in this short piece. Please, feel free to post here, any questions, comments, concerns, etc. I will respond. Remember, we fear the things we don't know; we fear the things we don't understand. I hope each of you allow me to help you understand, this way we can each make a well-informed and educated decision on the subject at hand.

Allow me to explain the difference between the two rifles for you.

Let's clear up a misunderstanding first. Understand that Assault Rifles are not civilian sold (generally speaking with specific exceptions), Assault Rifles are military grade fire systems utilizing fully automatic fire capabilities. An AR-15 is NOT an Assault Rifle, it is semi-automatic just like hunting rifles, shotguns, and handguns. the "AR" in "AR-15" stands for "ArmaLite Rifle" which is the company that developed it in the 1950s. So, every time someone goes on TV or the Democrats stand up talking about banning "Assault Rifles" and they reference the AR-15, you now understand just how ignorant they are in the subject of fire systems and you now also understand that they have no business discussing the subject of gun control.

Assuming "hunting rifle" is referring to the generic "Hunting Rifle" understanding; meaning deer, elk, etc., a hunting rifle generally fires a 30 06 (thirty odd six) round. An AR-15 fires either a .223 or 5.56 round, some barrels fire the 7.62 NATO round. Since the 7.62 NATO is more powerful, let's use that here.

Although you hear how much worse the AR is compared to hunting rifles, this is not true. The 7.62 NATO round is actually a more humane round which is one reason why NATO adopted it to replace the 30 06 which was fired out of the M1 GARAND in WWII. Compared to the 7.62 NATO round, the 30 06 blows HOLES in the target, shredding everything inside as it tumbles through the mass it hits. The 7.62 round in the AR-15 hits a more centralized destructive path. I could attempt to explain this but showing would be better.

Here is a link to a Youtube video showing the differences in destructive power using a pumpkin as the target:
https://www.youtube.com...

What are the other differences? Well....cosmetic really. over the past decade or so, hunting rifles have undergone a transformation for ergonomic comfort and to market to the military communities as "similar look-and-feel" to what they are used to holding. Any serious fire system user will have their style, their feel, their comfort zone. for those not into fire systems that much, it's like having a car for years then getting a rental for the first time....it just doesn't feel right, the brakes are different, handling is a bit off, etc.

When we hear "Hunting Rifle" we immediately think of our father's or grandfather's style rifle as can be seen here:
http://www.browning.com...

Well these days, with ergonomic comfort such a big deal, manufacturers followed suit rebuilding the "shell" of the fire systems to make them more comfortable to hold. See this link:
http://www.remington.com...

Since manufacturers compete for government contracts, they get to talk with our military men and women to find out what works even better. So they have been changing the "shell" to be even more comfortable and familiar, attempting to make the fire system feel as natural as possible. Which brings us to the current style of:
http://www.ruger.com...

Here is the same fire system just a different shell. Just including this one to show that this system can be barreled and chambered for 30-06 as well:
http://onlylongrange.com...

Look familiar to what everybody wants to ban? That's because it is EXACTLY what everyone is screaming to ban. Funny party is, they are the same EXACT fire system, just with different "shells" based on comfort (and a few small changes in the mechanics providing better recoil protection and better efficiency. It's like you walking outside in a full length Amish style dress which is OK. The next day is hotter so for comfort you walk outside in a respectable knee length skirt and all of a sudden everyone starts screaming and calling the police saying you should never wear that again and you're the worst skum of the Earth and if you don't give up your skirt and go back to the Amish dress you're advocating for the murder of innocent men, women, and children; continue adding all the anti-gun supporter attack lines you wish here. And all of this anger and hatred why? Because you changed your shell to something a bit more comfortable.

But yup....that's it.....that is the BIG HUGE fuss in America today.

It is one of looks. When you look at an AR-15 versus a 30 06 the AR-15 looks like what soldiers in warfare use and the 30 06 looks like what a deer hunter uses. Your points about power maybe very valid.

Fundamentally the context and perception formed, right or wrong, with me carrying AR-15 versus a 30 06 down the street is very different.

To me that is a very appropriate thing for the NRA to get the word out and educate people on guns and types versus trying to stop efforts to force all gun sales to require a background check.
MakeSensePeopleDont
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7/4/2015 2:29:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Again, please READ the post. The first lines state ASSAULT RIFLES ARE NOT SOLD TO CIVILIANS THEY ARE MILITARY WEAPONS WITH AUTOMATIC FIRE CAPABILITY.

An AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle. THAT is the lie you are fed. AR stands for ArmaLite Rifle.....it's a company name.
MakeSensePeopleDont
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7/4/2015 2:32:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?

Read my post geez....it tells you why an AR-15 is not an assault rifle. Why would you need to pay a large yearly fee to own a fire system?
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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7/4/2015 2:34:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.

If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

They are literally the exact same sort of thing - semi-automatic rifles. One trigger pull = one bullet shot. I own a hunting rifle and it works just the same as an AR rifle does.
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,390
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7/4/2015 8:10:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Although you cant buy an AR-15 at walmart, you can get one if you really want one. You just have to go up to Canada and sneak across the border on the way back.
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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7/5/2015 8:55:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/4/2015 2:32:18 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?

Read my post geez....it tells you why an AR-15 is not an assault rifle. Why would you need to pay a large yearly fee to own a fire system?

I said that to educate all the other idiots who think an AR-15 is an assault rifle. You did well at pointing that out. Guns have scary looking parts. GASP!!! we must ban them. even though our reasons are based on pure ignorance and stupidity.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
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7/5/2015 2:31:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I said that to educate all the other idiots who think an AR-15 is an assault rifle. You did well at pointing that out. Guns have scary looking parts. GASP!!! we must ban them. even though our reasons are based on pure ignorance and stupidity.

LOL, thank you. I understand now.
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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7/5/2015 7:56:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?

No and No.
Fly
Posts: 2,045
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7/5/2015 10:39:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 7:56:27 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?


No and No.

Admittedly, bans on so called "assault weapons" is not the finest example of effective gun control measures. They are more an attempt to show that something is being done rather than actually accomplishing substantive change.

That said, civilianized assault rifles such as the AR-15 are still quite deadly despite their lack of full auto or tri burst option. They are designed to fire a large amount of rounds quite accurately and quickly, even in single shot mode. One might even argue that they are more accurate in single shot mode.

Now, THAT said, it is actually handguns that are most responsible for the massive gun deaths in the US, not rifles...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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7/6/2015 1:23:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 10:39:17 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/5/2015 7:56:27 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?


No and No.

Admittedly, bans on so called "assault weapons" is not the finest example of effective gun control measures. They are more an attempt to show that something is being done rather than actually accomplishing substantive change.

That said, civilianized assault rifles such as the AR-15 are still quite deadly despite their lack of full auto or tri burst option. They are designed to fire a large amount of rounds quite accurately and quickly, even in single shot mode. One might even argue that they are more accurate in single shot mode.


They shoot as fast as any semi automatic rifle, lol.

Now, THAT said, it is actually handguns that are most responsible for the massive gun deaths in the US, not rifles...

duh, who wants to carry a rifle around.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
xus00HAY
Posts: 1,390
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7/6/2015 6:55:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The AR 15 is Americas gun. It may leave the factory as a conventional rifle, but after an American buys one, he has freedom of choice, He also has an American's talent to invent things, so he can modify his AR 15, and turn it into the next best thing to an AK 47
WAM
Posts: 139
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7/6/2015 10:08:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I know people who use AR style rifles as hunting rifles..

In my home country, Germany, there are actually AR style rifles (SIG SAUER for example) that are not available for sports shooting licence holders, but only for hunters and military personnel.. And thus they get used for hunting purposes..

But yeah, AR's get into the crap because people make connections and don't understand what they are.. Pierce Morgans for example, I think in all the videos I watched of him, he did not realise that handguns are semi auto, just like AR's..
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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7/6/2015 3:32:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 10:39:17 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/5/2015 7:56:27 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?


No and No.

Admittedly, bans on so called "assault weapons" is not the finest example of effective gun control measures. They are more an attempt to show that something is being done rather than actually accomplishing substantive change.

That said, civilianized assault rifles such as the AR-15 are still quite deadly despite their lack of full auto or tri burst option. They are designed to fire a large amount of rounds quite accurately and quickly, even in single shot mode. One might even argue that they are more accurate in single shot mode.

Now, THAT said, it is actually handguns that are most responsible for the massive gun deaths in the US, not rifles"

AR15s on the civilian market aren't necessarily designed with an inherent purpose. Saying that they were made to fire a large amount of rounds can be applied equally to any handgun ever.
Fly
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7/8/2015 9:15:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 1:23:14 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/5/2015 10:39:17 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/5/2015 7:56:27 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?


No and No.

Admittedly, bans on so called "assault weapons" is not the finest example of effective gun control measures. They are more an attempt to show that something is being done rather than actually accomplishing substantive change.

That said, civilianized assault rifles such as the AR-15 are still quite deadly despite their lack of full auto or tri burst option. They are designed to fire a large amount of rounds quite accurately and quickly, even in single shot mode. One might even argue that they are more accurate in single shot mode.


They shoot as fast as any semi automatic rifle, lol.

This is neither an insightful nor knowledgeable remark to be brutally honest. AR-15's are designed so that a person unfamiliar with firearms can be easily trained to proficiency on them. In other words, they are easy to shoot. The .223 round does not have a lot of kick, and the stock of the AR-15 is specifically designed so as to minimize kick and barrel rise. Compare these traits to, say, an M-14, for example.

The trigger pull is also relatively easy. The weapon can also be fitted with high capacity mags. All this adds up to a rifle that can fire many accurate rounds in a short time-- which was what I was saying in the first place.

Now, THAT said, it is actually handguns that are most responsible for the massive gun deaths in the US, not rifles...

duh, who wants to carry a rifle around.

Duh, like, who knows?
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Fly
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7/8/2015 9:22:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/6/2015 3:32:54 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/5/2015 10:39:17 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/5/2015 7:56:27 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?


No and No.

Admittedly, bans on so called "assault weapons" is not the finest example of effective gun control measures. They are more an attempt to show that something is being done rather than actually accomplishing substantive change.

That said, civilianized assault rifles such as the AR-15 are still quite deadly despite their lack of full auto or tri burst option. They are designed to fire a large amount of rounds quite accurately and quickly, even in single shot mode. One might even argue that they are more accurate in single shot mode.

Now, THAT said, it is actually handguns that are most responsible for the massive gun deaths in the US, not rifles"


AR15s on the civilian market aren't necessarily designed with an inherent purpose. Saying that they were made to fire a large amount of rounds can be applied equally to any handgun ever.

This is entirely incorrect. And a handgun is the term for a pistol, not a rifle, FYI. Many weapons are designed to fire one powerful round at a time accurately, such as a bolt action .308 rifle-- very different in design and intent from an AR-15.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
16kadams
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7/8/2015 10:55:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:15:46 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/6/2015 1:23:14 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/5/2015 10:39:17 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/5/2015 7:56:27 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?


No and No.

Admittedly, bans on so called "assault weapons" is not the finest example of effective gun control measures. They are more an attempt to show that something is being done rather than actually accomplishing substantive change.

That said, civilianized assault rifles such as the AR-15 are still quite deadly despite their lack of full auto or tri burst option. They are designed to fire a large amount of rounds quite accurately and quickly, even in single shot mode. One might even argue that they are more accurate in single shot mode.


They shoot as fast as any semi automatic rifle, lol.

This is neither an insightful nor knowledgeable remark to be brutally honest. AR-15's are designed so that a person unfamiliar with firearms can be easily trained to proficiency on them. In other words, they are easy to shoot. The .223 round does not have a lot of kick, and the stock of the AR-15 is specifically designed so as to minimize kick and barrel rise. Compare these traits to, say, an M-14, for example.


Are you a fvcking retard? I shoot guns all the time, an AR-15 is not easy to shoot. Other semi automatic rifles are so much easier to use.

The trigger pull is also relatively easy. The weapon can also be fitted with high capacity mags. All this adds up to a rifle that can fire many accurate rounds in a short time-- which was what I was saying in the first place.

Trigger pull is easy on most firearms if your finger isn't wimpy as sh!t. Are your bones made of paper?


Now, THAT said, it is actually handguns that are most responsible for the massive gun deaths in the US, not rifles...

duh, who wants to carry a rifle around.

Duh, like, who knows?

Do you have QI?
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"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Fly
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7/8/2015 11:37:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 10:55:32 PM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:15:46 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/6/2015 1:23:14 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 7/5/2015 10:39:17 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/5/2015 7:56:27 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?


No and No.

Admittedly, bans on so called "assault weapons" is not the finest example of effective gun control measures. They are more an attempt to show that something is being done rather than actually accomplishing substantive change.

That said, civilianized assault rifles such as the AR-15 are still quite deadly despite their lack of full auto or tri burst option. They are designed to fire a large amount of rounds quite accurately and quickly, even in single shot mode. One might even argue that they are more accurate in single shot mode.


They shoot as fast as any semi automatic rifle, lol.

This is neither an insightful nor knowledgeable remark to be brutally honest. AR-15's are designed so that a person unfamiliar with firearms can be easily trained to proficiency on them. In other words, they are easy to shoot. The .223 round does not have a lot of kick, and the stock of the AR-15 is specifically designed so as to minimize kick and barrel rise. Compare these traits to, say, an M-14, for example.



Are you a fvcking retard? I shoot guns all the time, an AR-15 is not easy to shoot. Other semi automatic rifles are so much easier to use.

You are starting to lose it, amigo, although it is entirely possible you never really had it. Perhaps the AR-15 is not easy to shoot compared to, say, a Ruger .22, but you have to consider context here. We are talking about rifles designed to kill humans, not varmints.

If you look at the line of US military combat rifles in the 20th century-- 1903 Springfield, M1 Garand, M-14, M-16-- the AR-15 (M-16 design) is far easier to learn and become proficient with. I am left having to ask: what combat rifles do you consider "so much easier to use"?

The trigger pull is also relatively easy. The weapon can also be fitted with high capacity mags. All this adds up to a rifle that can fire many accurate rounds in a short time-- which was what I was saying in the first place.

Trigger pull is easy on most firearms if your finger isn't wimpy as sh!t. Are your bones made of paper?

Hey, man, you're the one who said that the AR-15 is not easy to shoot.

Now, THAT said, it is actually handguns that are most responsible for the massive gun deaths in the US, not rifles...

duh, who wants to carry a rifle around.

Duh, like, who knows?

Do you have QI?

I honestly don't know. What is QI?
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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7/9/2015 8:35:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Its nice to see a clear explanation of the AR15 issue, so thanks for that. Most people don't understand how firearms work and so mistakes and misconceptions like this are rampant.

I don't mind a bit of gun control. It can be a good thing when the legislation is clear and when the laws were made by people who understand firearms. Unfortunately that has not been the case historically. Much of our gun control laws here in Canada have been the result of knee-jerk legislation in response to tragic shootings. The result has been poorly written, ambiguous, unintelligent laws that have done more to complicate the issue than anything else. We had a victory a few years back with the abolishment of the grossly expensive and grossly ineffective long gun registry. But the political winds here are changing again, and its unlikely that we'll see any progress in clearing this mess up for some time.
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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7/9/2015 2:51:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2015 9:22:35 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/6/2015 3:32:54 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/5/2015 10:39:17 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/5/2015 7:56:27 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?


No and No.

Admittedly, bans on so called "assault weapons" is not the finest example of effective gun control measures. They are more an attempt to show that something is being done rather than actually accomplishing substantive change.

That said, civilianized assault rifles such as the AR-15 are still quite deadly despite their lack of full auto or tri burst option. They are designed to fire a large amount of rounds quite accurately and quickly, even in single shot mode. One might even argue that they are more accurate in single shot mode.

Now, THAT said, it is actually handguns that are most responsible for the massive gun deaths in the US, not rifles"


AR15s on the civilian market aren't necessarily designed with an inherent purpose. Saying that they were made to fire a large amount of rounds can be applied equally to any handgun ever.

This is entirely incorrect. And a handgun is the term for a pistol, not a rifle, FYI. Many weapons are designed to fire one powerful round at a time accurately, such as a bolt action .308 rifle-- very different in design and intent from an AR-15.

I know that. What I was saying is, it's dishonest to say that an AR15 was made to fire a lot of rounds quickly when the exact same thing can be said about a handgun. AR15s only fire one round at a time. Same with a handgun. AR15s depending on who built it, can be capable of bolt-action accuracy with the same round.
Fly
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7/9/2015 7:17:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 2:51:21 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:22:35 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/6/2015 3:32:54 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/5/2015 10:39:17 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/5/2015 7:56:27 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?


No and No.

Admittedly, bans on so called "assault weapons" is not the finest example of effective gun control measures. They are more an attempt to show that something is being done rather than actually accomplishing substantive change.

That said, civilianized assault rifles such as the AR-15 are still quite deadly despite their lack of full auto or tri burst option. They are designed to fire a large amount of rounds quite accurately and quickly, even in single shot mode. One might even argue that they are more accurate in single shot mode.

Now, THAT said, it is actually handguns that are most responsible for the massive gun deaths in the US, not rifles"


AR15s on the civilian market aren't necessarily designed with an inherent purpose. Saying that they were made to fire a large amount of rounds can be applied equally to any handgun ever.

This is entirely incorrect. And a handgun is the term for a pistol, not a rifle, FYI. Many weapons are designed to fire one powerful round at a time accurately, such as a bolt action .308 rifle-- very different in design and intent from an AR-15.


I know that. What I was saying is, it's dishonest to say that an AR15 was made to fire a lot of rounds quickly when the exact same thing can be said about a handgun. AR15s only fire one round at a time. Same with a handgun. AR15s depending on who built it, can be capable of bolt-action accuracy with the same round.

It is not dishonest at all. That is a pretty pathetic accusation on your part. Actually, you are the one who is clouding the issue here. Pistols do NOT have 30 thirty round mags as standard options-- or even 20 round mags for that matter. Pistol rounds do not have the range and accuracy of .223 rounds either. The qualities of pistols should not be conflated with qualities of rifles here. And, not least of all, we (or, at least I was) are talking about RIFLES here, remember? Context seems to be a problem with some of you here.

Of course, there are ALWAYS exceptions (I pretty much already know of them anyway) but to point them all out for the sake of being contrary is... merely being contrarian.

And I would like to see an AR-15 that is capable of "bolt action accuracy." Not sure what it has to do with anything I was saying though, but cites would be welcome just out of sheer curiosity...

And remember: don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Fly
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7/9/2015 7:31:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Added note: I see why you bring up bolt action accuracy now, so I want to see your supporting evidence even more.

And to say that a semi auto and a bolt action both fire "one round at a time" is quite a dishonest and misleading (and contrarian) claim on your part. You should know damn well what I am talking about in the context of this discussion.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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7/10/2015 10:23:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 7:17:00 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/9/2015 2:51:21 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/8/2015 9:22:35 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/6/2015 3:32:54 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/5/2015 10:39:17 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/5/2015 7:56:27 PM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:14:56 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 7/4/2015 10:04:24 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
When a hunting rifle is fired, the guy who pulls the trigger has usually made damn sure that the bullet won't be going into a person. The assault rifle was designed for use by the army when someone wants to kill as many enemy soldiers as he can.
If you want to shoot somebody with an assault rifle, but they won't let you, any other kind of gun can be used as a substitute. Legislation cannot stop murder, but ,by letting a gun store sell an assault rifle , there is a message, killing as many people as you can is cool.

Is an AR-15 an assault rifle? If so why and if not why. Can a person buy an assault rifle without first obtaining a permit paying a large yearly fee and be on a federal data base?


No and No.

Admittedly, bans on so called "assault weapons" is not the finest example of effective gun control measures. They are more an attempt to show that something is being done rather than actually accomplishing substantive change.

That said, civilianized assault rifles such as the AR-15 are still quite deadly despite their lack of full auto or tri burst option. They are designed to fire a large amount of rounds quite accurately and quickly, even in single shot mode. One might even argue that they are more accurate in single shot mode.

Now, THAT said, it is actually handguns that are most responsible for the massive gun deaths in the US, not rifles"


AR15s on the civilian market aren't necessarily designed with an inherent purpose. Saying that they were made to fire a large amount of rounds can be applied equally to any handgun ever.

This is entirely incorrect. And a handgun is the term for a pistol, not a rifle, FYI. Many weapons are designed to fire one powerful round at a time accurately, such as a bolt action .308 rifle-- very different in design and intent from an AR-15.


I know that. What I was saying is, it's dishonest to say that an AR15 was made to fire a lot of rounds quickly when the exact same thing can be said about a handgun. AR15s only fire one round at a time. Same with a handgun. AR15s depending on who built it, can be capable of bolt-action accuracy with the same round.

It is not dishonest at all. That is a pretty pathetic accusation on your part. Actually, you are the one who is clouding the issue here. Pistols do NOT have 30 thirty round mags as standard options-- or even 20 round mags for that matter. Pistol rounds do not have the range and accuracy of .223 rounds either. The qualities of pistols should not be conflated with qualities of rifles here. And, not least of all, we (or, at least I was) are talking about RIFLES here, remember? Context seems to be a problem with some of you here.

Of course, there are ALWAYS exceptions (I pretty much already know of them anyway) but to point them all out for the sake of being contrary is... merely being contrarian.

And I would like to see an AR-15 that is capable of "bolt action accuracy." Not sure what it has to do with anything I was saying though, but cites would be welcome just out of sheer curiosity...

And remember: don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

Do 30rd mags come standard on handguns? No, but I can go to academy and buy them for $20 bucks. And if you're in the context of of mass shootings or preventing them, very few people are killed at extended range with firearms.

And ARs with bolt gun accuracy:
GAP-10
Larue OBR
JP- LPR07
Les Baer SWAT rifles.

Granted all of these are 2k+ rifles, but they still exist.
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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7/10/2015 10:33:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 7:31:39 PM, Fly wrote:
Added note: I see why you bring up bolt action accuracy now, so I want to see your supporting evidence even more.

And to say that a semi auto and a bolt action both fire "one round at a time" is quite a dishonest and misleading (and contrarian) claim on your part. You should know damn well what I am talking about in the context of this discussion.

No, they both fire one round at a time. One just requires an extra step to make the next round ready. Not dishonest at all, because, that's how they work. Do you even own a gun?
Fly
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7/10/2015 7:12:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 10:33:05 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/9/2015 7:31:39 PM, Fly wrote:
Added note: I see why you bring up bolt action accuracy now, so I want to see your supporting evidence even more.

And to say that a semi auto and a bolt action both fire "one round at a time" is quite a dishonest and misleading (and contrarian) claim on your part. You should know damn well what I am talking about in the context of this discussion.

No, they both fire one round at a time. One just requires an extra step to make the next round ready. Not dishonest at all, because, that's how they work. Do you even own a gun?

Wow, you are really being unnecessarily difficult here. Perhaps you are not even trying to be that way, and it just comes naturally to you; I don't know...

So, yeah, a muzzle loading flintlock and an AR-15 both fire "one round at a time" by your line of reasoning. They are really quite similar in that way according to you because you will not even attempt to acknowledge the point of what I was saying regarding firearm design and intent. That is merely technical, contrarian dicking around on your part. I much prefer rational, meaningful discussion myself. Are you able to try that, please?

I already acknowledged that there are exceptions to everything in technical matters such as this. You would just rather miss my point in order to disagree for whatever reason.

I will attempt to make this simple for the both of us: please, try addressing my initial post #12 to this thread. I was being neither controversial nor unreasonable in the points I made there. Perhaps that is why you must resort to the "tactics" you do here in order to disagree.

If you cannot do that without being a contrarian a$$, then we are done here.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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7/10/2015 9:14:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 7:12:35 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/10/2015 10:33:05 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/9/2015 7:31:39 PM, Fly wrote:
Added note: I see why you bring up bolt action accuracy now, so I want to see your supporting evidence even more.

And to say that a semi auto and a bolt action both fire "one round at a time" is quite a dishonest and misleading (and contrarian) claim on your part. You should know damn well what I am talking about in the context of this discussion.

No, they both fire one round at a time. One just requires an extra step to make the next round ready. Not dishonest at all, because, that's how they work. Do you even own a gun?

Wow, you are really being unnecessarily difficult here. Perhaps you are not even trying to be that way, and it just comes naturally to you; I don't know...

So, yeah, a muzzle loading flintlock and an AR-15 both fire "one round at a time" by your line of reasoning. They are really quite similar in that way according to you because you will not even attempt to acknowledge the point of what I was saying regarding firearm design and intent. That is merely technical, contrarian dicking around on your part. I much prefer rational, meaningful discussion myself. Are you able to try that, please?

I already acknowledged that there are exceptions to everything in technical matters such as this. You would just rather miss my point in order to disagree for whatever reason.

I will attempt to make this simple for the both of us: please, try addressing my initial post #12 to this thread. I was being neither controversial nor unreasonable in the points I made there. Perhaps that is why you must resort to the "tactics" you do here in order to disagree.

If you cannot do that without being a contrarian a$$, then we are done here.

I'll admit I was just screwing with you.

But I still stand by my assertion that design=/= intent.

And just to be an a$$ (for the last time), flintlock muskets don't use rounds. They use shot. The physics of the 2 are not the same.
Fly
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7/10/2015 11:02:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 10:33:05 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/9/2015 7:31:39 PM, Fly wrote:
Added note: I see why you bring up bolt action accuracy now, so I want to see your supporting evidence even more.

And to say that a semi auto and a bolt action both fire "one round at a time" is quite a dishonest and misleading (and contrarian) claim on your part. You should know damn well what I am talking about in the context of this discussion.

No, they both fire one round at a time. One just requires an extra step to make the next round ready. Not dishonest at all, because, that's how they work. Do you even own a gun?

Two can play the know-it-all stickler game:

[Begin]A bolt action rifle requires several manual steps in between shots, not merely one. First, the bolt must be unlocked via lifting the bolt operating handle. Second, the bolt is pulled back, ejecting the previous casing, if any. Then the bolt is pushed forward, chambering the next cartridge. Finally, the bolt is locked by moving the operating handle back down. Do you even know how a bolt action mechanism works?[/end]

That was not difficult-- just time consuming, although time wasting is more fitting. In other words, I'm not impressed with your immature, pointless games or your knowledge of firearm progress, technology and design through the decades and centuries. Perhaps you are quite current on the last year's worth of "Guns and Ammo" or some such magazine, but that's about all I can concede to you at this point...

Perhaps try constructing an actual, cogent argument, insight, or rebuttal instead, as I already requested of you. In the meantime, your youth is showing and not in a good way.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
Juris_Naturalis
Posts: 273
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7/10/2015 11:28:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 11:02:48 PM, Fly wrote:
At 7/10/2015 10:33:05 AM, Juris_Naturalis wrote:
At 7/9/2015 7:31:39 PM, Fly wrote:
Added note: I see why you bring up bolt action accuracy now, so I want to see your supporting evidence even more.

And to say that a semi auto and a bolt action both fire "one round at a time" is quite a dishonest and misleading (and contrarian) claim on your part. You should know damn well what I am talking about in the context of this discussion.

No, they both fire one round at a time. One just requires an extra step to make the next round ready. Not dishonest at all, because, that's how they work. Do you even own a gun?

Two can play the know-it-all stickler game:

[Begin]A bolt action rifle requires several manual steps in between shots, not merely one. First, the bolt must be unlocked via lifting the bolt operating handle. Second, the bolt is pulled back, ejecting the previous casing, if any. Then the bolt is pushed forward, chambering the next cartridge. Finally, the bolt is locked by moving the operating handle back down. Do you even know how a bolt action mechanism works?[/end]

That was not difficult-- just time consuming, although time wasting is more fitting. In other words, I'm not impressed with your immature, pointless games or your knowledge of firearm progress, technology and design through the decades and centuries. Perhaps you are quite current on the last year's worth of "Guns and Ammo" or some such magazine, but that's about all I can concede to you at this point...

Perhaps try constructing an actual, cogent argument, insight, or rebuttal instead, as I already requested of you. In the meantime, your youth is showing and not in a good way.

You must've missed my last point. The beef I have with you is that you believe that design=intent, as showed by your comment earlier.

"They are designed to fire a large amount of rounds quite accurately and quickly, even in single shot mode. One might even argue that they are more accurate in single shot mode"

I assert that that is not true. If you want to make the claim that an AR15 was designed to fire a large amount of rounds, simply because it is semi-automatic, the same claim can be made of almost all semi-automatic pistols made from 1920 on. You want to go at it in a formal debate, That's cool.