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What lands a person on the NSA watchlist?

Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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7/5/2015 7:01:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 5:11:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
I made an ISIS joke once. Does that mean I'm being monitored?

Talking about the NSA watchlist lands you on the NSA watchlist.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/5/2015 7:09:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 5:11:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
I made an ISIS joke once. Does that mean I'm being monitored?

They have had lists released to show the government mainly watches political enemies, in order to intimidate the voting public into voting the way they want them to. Ron Paul supporters have all been listed as potential terrorists, so is anyone who shows respect for the constitution. Avoid classes on constitutional law in college, if you want to stay off the list.

Basically, if you're a conservative of any sort, you're on their list. They "supposedly" think former military members will start a coup and take them over, so they watch all of them closely.
DutifulCynic
Posts: 46
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7/7/2015 4:23:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 7:09:20 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/5/2015 5:11:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
I made an ISIS joke once. Does that mean I'm being monitored?

They have had lists released to show the government mainly watches political enemies, in order to intimidate the voting public into voting the way they want them to. Ron Paul supporters have all been listed as potential terrorists, so is anyone who shows respect for the constitution. Avoid classes on constitutional law in college, if you want to stay off the list.

Basically, if you're a conservative of any sort, you're on their list. They "supposedly" think former military members will start a coup and take them over, so they watch all of them closely.
The degree to which conservatives will self-victimize is absolutely astounding. Conservatives are not "blacklisted", considering half the country is conservative.

Kids are taught from an early age about the Constitution. Are teachers blacklisted?

What about Bush, a loud a conservative, who started all of this NSA stuff to begin with? Is he blacklisted?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/7/2015 6:12:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 4:23:03 AM, DutifulCynic wrote:
At 7/5/2015 7:09:20 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/5/2015 5:11:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
I made an ISIS joke once. Does that mean I'm being monitored?

They have had lists released to show the government mainly watches political enemies, in order to intimidate the voting public into voting the way they want them to. Ron Paul supporters have all been listed as potential terrorists, so is anyone who shows respect for the constitution. Avoid classes on constitutional law in college, if you want to stay off the list.

Basically, if you're a conservative of any sort, you're on their list. They "supposedly" think former military members will start a coup and take them over, so they watch all of them closely.
The degree to which conservatives will self-victimize is absolutely astounding. Conservatives are not "blacklisted", considering half the country is conservative.

Kids are taught from an early age about the Constitution. Are teachers blacklisted?

What about Bush, a loud a conservative, who started all of this NSA stuff to begin with? Is he blacklisted?

Actually what I'm stating is a fact. The government considers Republicans terrorists and targets them. I'm a Libertatian and support Ron Paul, so the government put me on a list, as well as other political enemies, just like Hitler did.

http://www.networkworld.com...
DutifulCynic
Posts: 46
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7/7/2015 3:17:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 6:12:10 AM, Wylted wrote:

Actually what I'm stating is a fact. The government considers Republicans terrorists and targets them.
Except it's not fact. You honestly think half the government and half of the populace is blacklisted? And yet, liberals and socialists, which by the way the US intelligence has historically attacked in foreign countries, are not?
I'm a Libertatian and support Ron Paul, so the government put me on a list, as well as other political enemies, just like Hitler did.
No, they didn't.

http://www.networkworld.com...
This article doesn't even make mention of blacklists, has few official sources, and only lists "suspicious" behavior. Nowhere in there does it mention libertarians or Ron Paul. Please do not paint yourself as an oppressed minority.
Saint_of_Me
Posts: 2,402
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7/7/2015 4:00:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 5:11:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
I made an ISIS joke once. Does that mean I'm being monitored?

If that comprises your only indulgence in speaking with others on matters concerning Global Terrorism or its attendant factions that I would say you are almost certainly not on NSA'a Watch Dog List.

One thing people who complain about the NSA's communications monitoring system is that it does not automatically begin listening in on the convos of folks they might be interested in. Well, not right away, that is.

It's all computerized, using algorithms. What this super computer does is "watch" for patterns of communications. That is, "traffic frequency" for targeted networks. Or nodes. If said traffic is frequent a "flag" goes up and then the given contents of the communication might be monitored. But there is simply far, far too much of this Traffic for the NSA to sit there listening to you talk about ISIS with a buddy. the mental image some people have of a guy, say, from a cop TV show sitting in a surveillence van down the street, wearing headphones and listening to the perp talk with his drug dealer on the phone is just woo.

Here's a link containing some comments written by a Texas A&M Professor who used to work for the NSA.

http://today.tamu.edu...
Science Flies Us to the Moon. Religion Flies us Into Skyscrapers.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/7/2015 4:34:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 3:17:17 PM, DutifulCynic wrote:
At 7/7/2015 6:12:10 AM, Wylted wrote:

Actually what I'm stating is a fact. The government considers Republicans terrorists and targets them.
Except it's not fact. You honestly think half the government and half of the populace is blacklisted? And yet, liberals and socialists, which by the way the US intelligence has historically attacked in foreign countries, are not?
I'm a Libertatian and support Ron Paul, so the government put me on a list, as well as other political enemies, just like Hitler did.
No, they didn't.

http://www.networkworld.com...
This article doesn't even make mention of blacklists, has few official sources, and only lists "suspicious" behavior. Nowhere in there does it mention libertarians or Ron Paul. Please do not paint yourself as an oppressed minority.

Read the document it cites. The FBI in Minnesota had this fall into open hands and were incredibly criticized for it. They lost a ton of local funding, the person responsible for trying to target political enemies was fired. There are thousands of news sources that explain various details of this document, plus it's publicly available. Nobody is claiming to be an oppressed minority. The claim is that an elitist minority is trying to impose their will on the majority.
DutifulCynic
Posts: 46
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7/7/2015 4:43:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 4:34:26 PM, Wylted wrote:


Read the document it cites.
I am. It in fact has even less about libertarians then the article. "Rejecting federal authority" would be an example of "freeman on the land", which can be classified as a terror group. Not libertarians in general.
The FBI in Minnesota had this fall into open hands and were incredibly criticized for it. They lost a ton of local funding, the person responsible for trying to target political enemies was fired. There are thousands of news sources that explain various details of this document, plus it's publicly available.
"Thousands" and you cite a relatively obscure source I have never heard of before? The issue here is domestic terror groups cane be "single-issue" on abortion, immigration, and other right-wing desperation. Being against abortion, or for state's rights, is not an example of domestic terrorism. Being part of a heavily armed militia, dedicated to a radical viewpoint that necessities violence, and dehumanizing a group of citizens is what gets you blacklisted.

The Ron Paul link don't work.
Nobody is claiming to be an oppressed minority. The claim is that an elitist minority is trying to impose their will on the majority.
Libertarians aren't a majority, thus, you are making yourself out to be an oppressed minority.
anonymouse
Posts: 52
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7/7/2015 4:54:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 5:11:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
I made an ISIS joke once. Does that mean I'm being monitored?

Watch in another 50 years, there will be a systematic purge of all republicans, christians and white people and will be replaced by a gay black liberal
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/7/2015 4:55:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 4:43:19 PM, DutifulCynic wrote:
At 7/7/2015 4:34:26 PM, Wylted wrote:


Read the document it cites.
I am. It in fact has even less about libertarians then the article. "Rejecting federal authority" would be an example of "freeman on the land", which can be classified as a terror group. Not libertarians in general.

The MIac report lists a lot of groups.

The FBI in Minnesota had this fall into open hands and were incredibly criticized for it. They lost a ton of local funding, the person responsible for trying to target political enemies was fired. There are thousands of news sources that explain various details of this document, plus it's publicly available.
"Thousands" and you cite a relatively obscure source I have never heard of before? The issue here is domestic terror groups cane be "single-issue" on abortion, immigration, and other right-wing desperation. Being against abortion, or for state's rights, is not an example of domestic terrorism. Being part of a heavily armed militia, dedicated to a radical viewpoint that necessities violence, and dehumanizing a group of citizens is what gets you blacklisted.

No, just being a Ron Paul supporter can get you on a watch list or make you a suspect. http://www.unitedliberty.org...

Jesus Christ, I posted articles to make it easier, but you can check the citations and read the MIac report yourself.

The Ron Paul link don't work.
Nobody is claiming to be an oppressed minority. The claim is that an elitist minority is trying to impose their will on the majority.
Libertarians aren't a majority, thus, you are making yourself out to be an oppressed minority.

No idiot. Libertarians are a small part of the majority. It's not only libertarians being targeted. There are so many things listed that most people fall under them, but way to cherry pick the report and point to individual pieces and say "hey, each piec is no more than 30% of the population."

The report is clearly meant as a tool to target political enemies. Now stop being silly.
DutifulCynic
Posts: 46
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7/7/2015 5:05:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 4:55:39 PM, Wylted wrote:

The MIac report lists a lot of groups.
Such as....? The articles you've listed lead to the FBI classification which does not list political groups, but potential political groups.


No, just being a Ron Paul supporter can get you on a watch list or make you a suspect. http://www.unitedliberty.org...
In the very article you have here(which comes from a biased source) the state law enforcement is saying it's being misinterpreted. Like it or not, Ron Paul supporters have some radicals in them. Radical support for him, among the other factors I listed, can hurt someone's credibility. Having a sticker itself doesn't do it, as I'm sure you haven't been arrested.

Jesus Christ, I posted articles to make it easier, but you can check the citations and read the MIac report yourself.
Which I did. In fact the quotes get less and less authoritarian sounding as you go closer to the report. Your first article almost outright changed the quotes entirely.

No idiot. Libertarians are a small part of the majority.
Thus not a majority. Glad we agree.
It's not only libertarians being targeted. There are so many things listed that most people fall under them, but way to cherry pick the report and point to individual pieces and say "hey, each piec is no more than 30% of the population."
Most people do not meet the following classifications:
- Part of a militia
- Frequently changes appearance drastically
- Is libertarian(which is disputed)
- Supports Ron Paul
- Member of a hate group
- Frequently purchases surplus military equipment and war supplies
- Rejects federal authority

You have to meet several of these to be classified as a potential domestic terrorist.
The report is clearly meant as a tool to target political enemies. Now stop being silly.
Except it clearly isn't. You're not persecuted. Stop pretending, it's as ridiculous as when christian say their religion is persecuted in the United States.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/7/2015 9:04:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 5:05:49 PM, DutifulCynic wrote:
At 7/7/2015 4:55:39 PM, Wylted wrote:

The MIac report lists a lot of groups.
Such as....? The articles you've listed lead to the FBI classification which does not list political groups, but potential political groups.

Like? Potential Republicans?


No, just being a Ron Paul supporter can get you on a watch list or make you a suspect. http://www.unitedliberty.org...
In the very article you have here(which comes from a biased source) the state law enforcement is saying it's being misinterpreted.

Of course, anyone who is caught doing something bad states, they're being misrepresented. Also the fact that you're criticiZing the source is absurd. You're using the genetic fallacy. Just because a source is biased (which every source is to some extent), doesn't mean the facts they're reporting are untrue.

Like it or not, Ron Paul supporters have some radicals in them. Radical support for him, among the other factors I listed, can hurt someone's credibility. Having a sticker itself doesn't do it, as I'm sure you haven't been arrested.

No, they don't arrest people for that, they just watch them extremely closely, as a means of intimidation. I promise you, I'm on a list of some sort. Otherwise I wouldn't keep getting pulled aside to receive the extra security measures I do.

Jesus Christ, I posted articles to make it easier, but you can check the citations and read the MIac report yourself.
Which I did. In fact the quotes get less and less authoritarian sounding as you go closer to the report. Your first article almost outright changed the quotes entirely.

The first one cited several things, but whatever.

No idiot. Libertarians are a small part of the majority.
Thus not a majority. Glad we agree.

Yep, I don't think they are that's obvious, but when you add up every qualification, the majority of people fall under it. The MIac report also called people who care about the environment terrorists (and who doesn't care about the environment).

It's not only libertarians being targeted. There are so many things listed that most people fall under them, but way to cherry pick the report and point to individual pieces and say "hey, each piec is no more than 30% of the population."
Most people do not meet the following classifications:
- Part of a militia
- Frequently changes appearance drastically
- Is libertarian(which is disputed)
- Supports Ron Paul
- Member of a hate group
- Frequently purchases surplus military equipment and war supplies
- Rejects federal authority

Those just a small part of the report, and even if it's a small minority, they shouldn't be targeting people, merely because they're libertarian.

You have to meet several of these to be classified as a potential domestic terrorist.
The report is clearly meant as a tool to target political enemies. Now stop being silly.
Except it clearly isn't. You're not persecuted. Stop pretending, it's as ridiculous as when christian say their religion is persecuted in the United States.

Their religion is persecuted in some respects. A Christian isn't being dishonest by saying that, and clearly being put on terrorist watch lists, having my privacy invaded and receiving extra security at the airport, because of my political beliefs is not only persecution, but anti American.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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7/7/2015 9:23:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/5/2015 7:01:17 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 7/5/2015 5:11:26 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
I made an ISIS joke once. Does that mean I'm being monitored?

Talking about the NSA watchlist lands you on the NSA watchlist.
DutifulCynic
Posts: 46
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7/7/2015 10:49:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/7/2015 9:04:39 PM, Wylted wrote:

Like? Potential Republicans?
Yup. 50% of the military, including the one most popular with the military and hard interventionists, are blacklisted.


Of course, anyone who is caught doing something bad states, they're being misrepresented. Also the fact that you're criticiZing the source is absurd. You're using the genetic fallacy. Just because a source is biased (which every source is to some extent), doesn't mean the facts they're reporting are untrue.
Learn fallacies before you cite them: https://en.wikipedia.org...

It's only a fallacy if irrelevant. It's not. I wouldn't trust a right-wing website for the same reason I wouldn't trust the Russian Pravda.

No, they don't arrest people for that, they just watch them extremely closely, as a means of intimidation.
In what ways do they watch they?
I promise you, I'm on a list of some sort. Otherwise I wouldn't keep getting pulled aside to receive the extra security measures I do.
Define the actual frequency you are pulled aside, and in what contexts you are.

The first one cited several things, but whatever.
Citing it doesn't mean they didn't alter the source material. I was reading what they cited.

Yep, I don't think they are that's obvious, but when you add up every qualification, the majority of people fall under it. The MIac report also called people who care about the environment terrorists (and who doesn't care about the environment).
Libertarians, for one, but this is a clear reference to eco-terroists which, while not exactly too dangerous, can cause serious vandalism.

It's not only libertarians being targeted. There are so many things listed that most people fall under them, but way to cherry pick the report and point to individual pieces and say "hey, each piec is no more than 30% of the population."

Those just a small part of the report, and even if it's a small minority, they shouldn't be targeting people, merely because they're libertarian.
This line is for what is said above, and why I added disputed. The point here is, even if they did, they are not monitoring the majority.


Their religion is persecuted in some respects. A Christian isn't being dishonest by saying that, and clearly being put on terrorist watch lists,
Which you aren't, definitely not for being Christian(of which 85% of the country is).
having my privacy invaded
Legitimate criticism, but this is pretty much across the board for all citizens.
and receiving extra security at the airport,
I doubt this.
because of my political beliefs is not only persecution, but anti American.
So then you do admit you think you an oppressed American.