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Trump and Bush

YYW
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7/11/2015 4:07:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm calling the GOP primary now. It's going to come down to Trump and Bush, and Trump will win.
Tsar of DDO
thett3
Posts: 14,345
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7/11/2015 4:08:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I would bet a significant sum of money that Trump will not win
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Objectivity
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7/11/2015 6:07:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 4:07:41 PM, YYW wrote:
I'm calling the GOP primary now. It's going to come down to Trump and Bush, and Trump will win.

I'm sure you'd like that but it won't happen.
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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7/11/2015 6:51:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 4:08:29 PM, thett3 wrote:
I would bet a significant sum of money that Trump will not win

Why do you think that? I like him. As a candidate, he's got pizzaz.
Tsar of DDO
Such
Posts: 1,110
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7/11/2015 6:53:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Curious.

Donald Trump would be an embarrassing representative for this country.

I would be pretty jazzed if we got another Clinton in office.
Such
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7/11/2015 6:59:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Granted, but I'm more interested in a decent president than I am in a representative of any given party.

So, it matters not to me not an iota how good of a GOP candidate he is.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,269
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7/11/2015 7:02:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 6:53:21 PM, Such wrote:
Curious.

Donald Trump would be an embarrassing representative for this country.

I would be pretty jazzed if we got another Clinton in office.

Hillary is no Bill. She governs like Bush.
Greyparrot
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7/11/2015 7:09:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 6:51:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/11/2015 4:08:29 PM, thett3 wrote:
I would bet a significant sum of money that Trump will not win

Why do you think that? I like him. As a candidate, he's got pizzaz.

I'd feel like going into a casino booth voting for him.
Greyparrot
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7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Where Bill loved retail politics and shaking hands, the former First Lady has taken to carefully scripted and managed small events. She can be seen talking with Joe and Jane Lunchbucket, but the press can"t ask questions. It got so bad that journalists, egged on by Republican presidential aspirants and Fox News, started counting how many days it had been since she took questions from the press.

As her nascent campaign has unfolded, she has taken strides to push policies that are important to her, at the expense of being responsive to the issues of the day. For example, Congress is in a tizzy as to the president"s Trade Assistance Authorization legislation, which organized labor and most Democratic legislators steadfastly oppose. Hillary has consistently supported such legislation throughout her tenure at State, but only in the eleventh hour did she take a position in opposition following Nancy Pelosi"s lead.

That last point brings us to the conundrum that Hillary faces on a daily basis: how to be her own candidate without having to embrace or disavow the policies of President Obama, which have become an anchor around her campaign.

So far, she hasn"t found a way to meaningfully differentiate herself.

Bill Clinton, along with many others, helped found the centrist Democratic Leadership Council. Accused of being "closet Republicans," the DLC believed that the Democratic leadership in Washington was too far to the left and that government was not always the answer to every problem.

So when Bill campaigned on "ending welfare as we know it" and then announced that the "era of Big Government is over," the Republicans roundly complained that he was co-opting their issues and making them his own. But his pragmatism and eager willingness to move to the right when necessary made him one of the most successful Democratic presidents of the modern era, and one who could arguably be reelected today if he was allowed to run again.

Whereas Bill likes people and revels in their reflection, Hillary is decidedly a policy wonk and eschews retail politics.

It"s a disaster waiting to happen: just like Obama, Hillary can"t (and likely won"t) move to the center, the canary in the coal mine for another president who can"t relate to folks across the aisle.
Oreo222
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7/11/2015 7:43:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 4:07:41 PM, YYW wrote:
I'm calling the GOP primary now. It's going to come down to Trump and Bush, and Trump will win.

Both are horrible candidates. I'd rather have Kasich win the Primary.
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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7/11/2015 7:46:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 4:07:41 PM, YYW wrote:
I'm calling the GOP primary now. It's going to come down to Trump and Bush, and Trump will win.

Up for a gentleman's wager on this?
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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7/11/2015 7:51:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Where Bill loved retail politics and shaking hands, the former First Lady has taken to carefully scripted and managed small events. She can be seen talking with Joe and Jane Lunchbucket, but the press can"t ask questions. It got so bad that journalists, egged on by Republican presidential aspirants and Fox News, started counting how many days it had been since she took questions from the press.

As her nascent campaign has unfolded, she has taken strides to push policies that are important to her, at the expense of being responsive to the issues of the day. For example, Congress is in a tizzy as to the president"s Trade Assistance Authorization legislation, which organized labor and most Democratic legislators steadfastly oppose. Hillary has consistently supported such legislation throughout her tenure at State, but only in the eleventh hour did she take a position in opposition following Nancy Pelosi"s lead.

That last point brings us to the conundrum that Hillary faces on a daily basis: how to be her own candidate without having to embrace or disavow the policies of President Obama, which have become an anchor around her campaign.

So far, she hasn"t found a way to meaningfully differentiate herself.

Bill Clinton, along with many others, helped found the centrist Democratic Leadership Council. Accused of being "closet Republicans," the DLC believed that the Democratic leadership in Washington was too far to the left and that government was not always the answer to every problem.

So when Bill campaigned on "ending welfare as we know it" and then announced that the "era of Big Government is over," the Republicans roundly complained that he was co-opting their issues and making them his own. But his pragmatism and eager willingness to move to the right when necessary made him one of the most successful Democratic presidents of the modern era, and one who could arguably be reelected today if he was allowed to run again.

Whereas Bill likes people and revels in their reflection, Hillary is decidedly a policy wonk and eschews retail politics.

It"s a disaster waiting to happen: just like Obama, Hillary can"t (and likely won"t) move to the center, the canary in the coal mine for another president who can"t relate to folks across the aisle.

What? Obama is so centrist he might as well be Republican.
thett3
Posts: 14,345
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7/11/2015 7:53:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 6:51:58 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/11/2015 4:08:29 PM, thett3 wrote:
I would bet a significant sum of money that Trump will not win

Why do you think that? I like him. As a candidate, he's got pizzaz.

He's despised by republican voters. As Fivethirtyeight explains: "Trump is the anti-LeBron " popularity is performance in politics, and Trump is the first candidate in modern presidential primary history to begin the campaign with a majority of his own party disliking him. A whopping 57 percent of Republicans have an unfavorable view of Trump, according to an average of the three most recent polls. That beats former record holder Pat Buchanan, who had a 43 percent unfavorable rating at this point in the 2000 election cycle.1 Buchanan, of course, ended up running as an independent.

Taking into account name recognition, Trump"s net favorability rating (favorable minus unfavorable) of -32 percentage points stands out for its pure terribleness at this point in the campaign. Like his unfavorable rating, it is by far the worst of the 106 presidential candidates since 1980 who are in our database."

He's literally the candidate with the worst perception among his party in the past 35 years and likely a lot longer. Hardly a front runner.

http://fivethirtyeight.com...
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
Posts: 14,345
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7/11/2015 7:55:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 7:51:47 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Where Bill loved retail politics and shaking hands, the former First Lady has taken to carefully scripted and managed small events. She can be seen talking with Joe and Jane Lunchbucket, but the press can"t ask questions. It got so bad that journalists, egged on by Republican presidential aspirants and Fox News, started counting how many days it had been since she took questions from the press.

As her nascent campaign has unfolded, she has taken strides to push policies that are important to her, at the expense of being responsive to the issues of the day. For example, Congress is in a tizzy as to the president"s Trade Assistance Authorization legislation, which organized labor and most Democratic legislators steadfastly oppose. Hillary has consistently supported such legislation throughout her tenure at State, but only in the eleventh hour did she take a position in opposition following Nancy Pelosi"s lead.

That last point brings us to the conundrum that Hillary faces on a daily basis: how to be her own candidate without having to embrace or disavow the policies of President Obama, which have become an anchor around her campaign.

So far, she hasn"t found a way to meaningfully differentiate herself.

Bill Clinton, along with many others, helped found the centrist Democratic Leadership Council. Accused of being "closet Republicans," the DLC believed that the Democratic leadership in Washington was too far to the left and that government was not always the answer to every problem.

So when Bill campaigned on "ending welfare as we know it" and then announced that the "era of Big Government is over," the Republicans roundly complained that he was co-opting their issues and making them his own. But his pragmatism and eager willingness to move to the right when necessary made him one of the most successful Democratic presidents of the modern era, and one who could arguably be reelected today if he was allowed to run again.

Whereas Bill likes people and revels in their reflection, Hillary is decidedly a policy wonk and eschews retail politics.

It"s a disaster waiting to happen: just like Obama, Hillary can"t (and likely won"t) move to the center, the canary in the coal mine for another president who can"t relate to folks across the aisle.

What? Obama is so centrist he might as well be Republican.

Uhh no, hes not lol. Obama had one of the most liberal voting records during his time in the senate and his policy agenda is very liberal. His biggest policy achievement was passed without a single republican vote
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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7/11/2015 7:58:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 7:55:38 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:51:47 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Where Bill loved retail politics and shaking hands, the former First Lady has taken to carefully scripted and managed small events. She can be seen talking with Joe and Jane Lunchbucket, but the press can"t ask questions. It got so bad that journalists, egged on by Republican presidential aspirants and Fox News, started counting how many days it had been since she took questions from the press.

As her nascent campaign has unfolded, she has taken strides to push policies that are important to her, at the expense of being responsive to the issues of the day. For example, Congress is in a tizzy as to the president"s Trade Assistance Authorization legislation, which organized labor and most Democratic legislators steadfastly oppose. Hillary has consistently supported such legislation throughout her tenure at State, but only in the eleventh hour did she take a position in opposition following Nancy Pelosi"s lead.

That last point brings us to the conundrum that Hillary faces on a daily basis: how to be her own candidate without having to embrace or disavow the policies of President Obama, which have become an anchor around her campaign.

So far, she hasn"t found a way to meaningfully differentiate herself.

Bill Clinton, along with many others, helped found the centrist Democratic Leadership Council. Accused of being "closet Republicans," the DLC believed that the Democratic leadership in Washington was too far to the left and that government was not always the answer to every problem.

So when Bill campaigned on "ending welfare as we know it" and then announced that the "era of Big Government is over," the Republicans roundly complained that he was co-opting their issues and making them his own. But his pragmatism and eager willingness to move to the right when necessary made him one of the most successful Democratic presidents of the modern era, and one who could arguably be reelected today if he was allowed to run again.

Whereas Bill likes people and revels in their reflection, Hillary is decidedly a policy wonk and eschews retail politics.

It"s a disaster waiting to happen: just like Obama, Hillary can"t (and likely won"t) move to the center, the canary in the coal mine for another president who can"t relate to folks across the aisle.

What? Obama is so centrist he might as well be Republican.

Uhh no, hes not lol. Obama had one of the most liberal voting records during his time in the senate and his policy agenda is very liberal. His biggest policy achievement was passed without a single republican vote

You mean the healthcare plan that mandates you buy from PRIVATE companies?
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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7/11/2015 8:03:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 7:46:16 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 7/11/2015 4:07:41 PM, YYW wrote:
I'm calling the GOP primary now. It's going to come down to Trump and Bush, and Trump will win.

Up for a gentleman's wager on this?

You know it. Come up with an alternative, and set the stakes. I'm likely to bite.
Tsar of DDO
thett3
Posts: 14,345
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7/11/2015 8:05:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 7:58:45 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:55:38 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:51:47 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Where Bill loved retail politics and shaking hands, the former First Lady has taken to carefully scripted and managed small events. She can be seen talking with Joe and Jane Lunchbucket, but the press can"t ask questions. It got so bad that journalists, egged on by Republican presidential aspirants and Fox News, started counting how many days it had been since she took questions from the press.

As her nascent campaign has unfolded, she has taken strides to push policies that are important to her, at the expense of being responsive to the issues of the day. For example, Congress is in a tizzy as to the president"s Trade Assistance Authorization legislation, which organized labor and most Democratic legislators steadfastly oppose. Hillary has consistently supported such legislation throughout her tenure at State, but only in the eleventh hour did she take a position in opposition following Nancy Pelosi"s lead.

That last point brings us to the conundrum that Hillary faces on a daily basis: how to be her own candidate without having to embrace or disavow the policies of President Obama, which have become an anchor around her campaign.

So far, she hasn"t found a way to meaningfully differentiate herself.

Bill Clinton, along with many others, helped found the centrist Democratic Leadership Council. Accused of being "closet Republicans," the DLC believed that the Democratic leadership in Washington was too far to the left and that government was not always the answer to every problem.

So when Bill campaigned on "ending welfare as we know it" and then announced that the "era of Big Government is over," the Republicans roundly complained that he was co-opting their issues and making them his own. But his pragmatism and eager willingness to move to the right when necessary made him one of the most successful Democratic presidents of the modern era, and one who could arguably be reelected today if he was allowed to run again.

Whereas Bill likes people and revels in their reflection, Hillary is decidedly a policy wonk and eschews retail politics.

It"s a disaster waiting to happen: just like Obama, Hillary can"t (and likely won"t) move to the center, the canary in the coal mine for another president who can"t relate to folks across the aisle.

What? Obama is so centrist he might as well be Republican.

Uhh no, hes not lol. Obama had one of the most liberal voting records during his time in the senate and his policy agenda is very liberal. His biggest policy achievement was passed without a single republican vote

You mean the healthcare plan that mandates you buy from PRIVATE companies?

Hey man, I'm not saying it's good policy. But to describe him as a centrist democrat in name only just isn't accurate. Democrats and republicans are about equally guilty of corporatism in my opinion. If they weren't, they wouldn't have so many businesses donating to them
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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7/11/2015 8:05:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's going to come down to Bush and Walker or Bush and Rubio. Bush will most likely win.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,269
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7/11/2015 8:08:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 7:51:47 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

What? Obama is so centrist he might as well be Republican.

Well he has done a horrid job of convincing any Republican congressmen of that tidbit.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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7/11/2015 8:12:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 8:05:10 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:58:45 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:55:38 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:51:47 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Where Bill loved retail politics and shaking hands, the former First Lady has taken to carefully scripted and managed small events. She can be seen talking with Joe and Jane Lunchbucket, but the press can"t ask questions. It got so bad that journalists, egged on by Republican presidential aspirants and Fox News, started counting how many days it had been since she took questions from the press.

As her nascent campaign has unfolded, she has taken strides to push policies that are important to her, at the expense of being responsive to the issues of the day. For example, Congress is in a tizzy as to the president"s Trade Assistance Authorization legislation, which organized labor and most Democratic legislators steadfastly oppose. Hillary has consistently supported such legislation throughout her tenure at State, but only in the eleventh hour did she take a position in opposition following Nancy Pelosi"s lead.

That last point brings us to the conundrum that Hillary faces on a daily basis: how to be her own candidate without having to embrace or disavow the policies of President Obama, which have become an anchor around her campaign.

So far, she hasn"t found a way to meaningfully differentiate herself.

Bill Clinton, along with many others, helped found the centrist Democratic Leadership Council. Accused of being "closet Republicans," the DLC believed that the Democratic leadership in Washington was too far to the left and that government was not always the answer to every problem.

So when Bill campaigned on "ending welfare as we know it" and then announced that the "era of Big Government is over," the Republicans roundly complained that he was co-opting their issues and making them his own. But his pragmatism and eager willingness to move to the right when necessary made him one of the most successful Democratic presidents of the modern era, and one who could arguably be reelected today if he was allowed to run again.

Whereas Bill likes people and revels in their reflection, Hillary is decidedly a policy wonk and eschews retail politics.

It"s a disaster waiting to happen: just like Obama, Hillary can"t (and likely won"t) move to the center, the canary in the coal mine for another president who can"t relate to folks across the aisle.

What? Obama is so centrist he might as well be Republican.

Uhh no, hes not lol. Obama had one of the most liberal voting records during his time in the senate and his policy agenda is very liberal. His biggest policy achievement was passed without a single republican vote

You mean the healthcare plan that mandates you buy from PRIVATE companies?

Hey man, I'm not saying it's good policy. But to describe him as a centrist democrat in name only just isn't accurate. Democrats and republicans are about equally guilty of corporatism in my opinion. If they weren't, they wouldn't have so many businesses donating to them

I didn't say he wasn't a Democrat. A liberal would push for nationalized health care. A single-pager system. The whole Democratic Party is centrist.
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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7/11/2015 8:14:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 8:08:03 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:51:47 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

What? Obama is so centrist he might as well be Republican.

Well he has done a horrid job of convincing any Republican congressmen of that tidbit.

Like the Republicans are willing to listen in the first place. He's extended Bush's cuts, kept Guantanamo open, gotten involved in another war, (initially) opposed gay marriage.....
thett3
Posts: 14,345
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7/11/2015 8:22:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 8:12:34 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 8:05:10 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:58:45 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:55:38 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:51:47 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Where Bill loved retail politics and shaking hands, the former First Lady has taken to carefully scripted and managed small events. She can be seen talking with Joe and Jane Lunchbucket, but the press can"t ask questions. It got so bad that journalists, egged on by Republican presidential aspirants and Fox News, started counting how many days it had been since she took questions from the press.

As her nascent campaign has unfolded, she has taken strides to push policies that are important to her, at the expense of being responsive to the issues of the day. For example, Congress is in a tizzy as to the president"s Trade Assistance Authorization legislation, which organized labor and most Democratic legislators steadfastly oppose. Hillary has consistently supported such legislation throughout her tenure at State, but only in the eleventh hour did she take a position in opposition following Nancy Pelosi"s lead.

That last point brings us to the conundrum that Hillary faces on a daily basis: how to be her own candidate without having to embrace or disavow the policies of President Obama, which have become an anchor around her campaign.

So far, she hasn"t found a way to meaningfully differentiate herself.

Bill Clinton, along with many others, helped found the centrist Democratic Leadership Council. Accused of being "closet Republicans," the DLC believed that the Democratic leadership in Washington was too far to the left and that government was not always the answer to every problem.

So when Bill campaigned on "ending welfare as we know it" and then announced that the "era of Big Government is over," the Republicans roundly complained that he was co-opting their issues and making them his own. But his pragmatism and eager willingness to move to the right when necessary made him one of the most successful Democratic presidents of the modern era, and one who could arguably be reelected today if he was allowed to run again.

Whereas Bill likes people and revels in their reflection, Hillary is decidedly a policy wonk and eschews retail politics.

It"s a disaster waiting to happen: just like Obama, Hillary can"t (and likely won"t) move to the center, the canary in the coal mine for another president who can"t relate to folks across the aisle.

What? Obama is so centrist he might as well be Republican.

Uhh no, hes not lol. Obama had one of the most liberal voting records during his time in the senate and his policy agenda is very liberal. His biggest policy achievement was passed without a single republican vote

You mean the healthcare plan that mandates you buy from PRIVATE companies?

Hey man, I'm not saying it's good policy. But to describe him as a centrist democrat in name only just isn't accurate. Democrats and republicans are about equally guilty of corporatism in my opinion. If they weren't, they wouldn't have so many businesses donating to them

I didn't say he wasn't a Democrat. A liberal would push for nationalized health care. A single-pager system. The whole Democratic Party is centrist.

If you arbitrarily define "liberal" as "more socialist than the Democratic Party" than sure. But these things are tools to envision where people fall politically in society and Obama and the Democratic Party is definitely on the American left.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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7/11/2015 8:26:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 8:22:14 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 8:12:34 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 8:05:10 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:58:45 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:55:38 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:51:47 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Where Bill loved retail politics and shaking hands, the former First Lady has taken to carefully scripted and managed small events. She can be seen talking with Joe and Jane Lunchbucket, but the press can"t ask questions. It got so bad that journalists, egged on by Republican presidential aspirants and Fox News, started counting how many days it had been since she took questions from the press.

As her nascent campaign has unfolded, she has taken strides to push policies that are important to her, at the expense of being responsive to the issues of the day. For example, Congress is in a tizzy as to the president"s Trade Assistance Authorization legislation, which organized labor and most Democratic legislators steadfastly oppose. Hillary has consistently supported such legislation throughout her tenure at State, but only in the eleventh hour did she take a position in opposition following Nancy Pelosi"s lead.

That last point brings us to the conundrum that Hillary faces on a daily basis: how to be her own candidate without having to embrace or disavow the policies of President Obama, which have become an anchor around her campaign.

So far, she hasn"t found a way to meaningfully differentiate herself.

Bill Clinton, along with many others, helped found the centrist Democratic Leadership Council. Accused of being "closet Republicans," the DLC believed that the Democratic leadership in Washington was too far to the left and that government was not always the answer to every problem.

So when Bill campaigned on "ending welfare as we know it" and then announced that the "era of Big Government is over," the Republicans roundly complained that he was co-opting their issues and making them his own. But his pragmatism and eager willingness to move to the right when necessary made him one of the most successful Democratic presidents of the modern era, and one who could arguably be reelected today if he was allowed to run again.

Whereas Bill likes people and revels in their reflection, Hillary is decidedly a policy wonk and eschews retail politics.

It"s a disaster waiting to happen: just like Obama, Hillary can"t (and likely won"t) move to the center, the canary in the coal mine for another president who can"t relate to folks across the aisle.

What? Obama is so centrist he might as well be Republican.

Uhh no, hes not lol. Obama had one of the most liberal voting records during his time in the senate and his policy agenda is very liberal. His biggest policy achievement was passed without a single republican vote

You mean the healthcare plan that mandates you buy from PRIVATE companies?

Hey man, I'm not saying it's good policy. But to describe him as a centrist democrat in name only just isn't accurate. Democrats and republicans are about equally guilty of corporatism in my opinion. If they weren't, they wouldn't have so many businesses donating to them

I didn't say he wasn't a Democrat. A liberal would push for nationalized health care. A single-pager system. The whole Democratic Party is centrist.

If you arbitrarily define "liberal" as "more socialist than the Democratic Party" than sure. But these things are tools to envision where people fall politically in society and Obama and the Democratic Party is definitely on the American left.

Democrats and Republicans are center with minor deviations. It's not like Republicans will actually scale back the government in any meaningful way, nor will the Democrats expand it in any proper ways. The Tea Party was a fully fledged rightist party. America does not have a comparable leftist party. To the rest of the world, our Democrats ARE their rightist parties.
thett3
Posts: 14,345
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7/11/2015 8:29:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 8:26:42 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 8:22:14 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 8:12:34 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 8:05:10 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:58:45 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:55:38 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:51:47 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Where Bill loved retail politics and shaking hands, the former First Lady has taken to carefully scripted and managed small events. She can be seen talking with Joe and Jane Lunchbucket, but the press can"t ask questions. It got so bad that journalists, egged on by Republican presidential aspirants and Fox News, started counting how many days it had been since she took questions from the press.

As her nascent campaign has unfolded, she has taken strides to push policies that are important to her, at the expense of being responsive to the issues of the day. For example, Congress is in a tizzy as to the president"s Trade Assistance Authorization legislation, which organized labor and most Democratic legislators steadfastly oppose. Hillary has consistently supported such legislation throughout her tenure at State, but only in the eleventh hour did she take a position in opposition following Nancy Pelosi"s lead.

That last point brings us to the conundrum that Hillary faces on a daily basis: how to be her own candidate without having to embrace or disavow the policies of President Obama, which have become an anchor around her campaign.

So far, she hasn"t found a way to meaningfully differentiate herself.

Bill Clinton, along with many others, helped found the centrist Democratic Leadership Council. Accused of being "closet Republicans," the DLC believed that the Democratic leadership in Washington was too far to the left and that government was not always the answer to every problem.

So when Bill campaigned on "ending welfare as we know it" and then announced that the "era of Big Government is over," the Republicans roundly complained that he was co-opting their issues and making them his own. But his pragmatism and eager willingness to move to the right when necessary made him one of the most successful Democratic presidents of the modern era, and one who could arguably be reelected today if he was allowed to run again.

Whereas Bill likes people and revels in their reflection, Hillary is decidedly a policy wonk and eschews retail politics.

It"s a disaster waiting to happen: just like Obama, Hillary can"t (and likely won"t) move to the center, the canary in the coal mine for another president who can"t relate to folks across the aisle.

What? Obama is so centrist he might as well be Republican.

Uhh no, hes not lol. Obama had one of the most liberal voting records during his time in the senate and his policy agenda is very liberal. His biggest policy achievement was passed without a single republican vote

You mean the healthcare plan that mandates you buy from PRIVATE companies?

Hey man, I'm not saying it's good policy. But to describe him as a centrist democrat in name only just isn't accurate. Democrats and republicans are about equally guilty of corporatism in my opinion. If they weren't, they wouldn't have so many businesses donating to them

I didn't say he wasn't a Democrat. A liberal would push for nationalized health care. A single-pager system. The whole Democratic Party is centrist.

If you arbitrarily define "liberal" as "more socialist than the Democratic Party" than sure. But these things are tools to envision where people fall politically in society and Obama and the Democratic Party is definitely on the American left.

Democrats and Republicans are center with minor deviations. It's not like Republicans will actually scale back the government in any meaningful way, nor will the Democrats expand it in any proper ways. The Tea Party was a fully fledged rightist party. America does not have a comparable leftist party.

Yeah cuz decisions aren't actually made by elected officials. They're made by the buearacracy and the judiciary

To the rest of the world, our Democrats ARE their rightist parties.

That's really not true because issues and cultures are so different in different places. That said Obama would definitely be a better fit for Labour than conservative or UKIP for example.
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Greyparrot
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7/11/2015 9:29:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/11/2015 8:14:18 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 8:08:03 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:51:47 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 7/11/2015 7:37:21 PM, Greyparrot wrote:

What? Obama is so centrist he might as well be Republican.

Well he has done a horrid job of convincing any Republican congressmen of that tidbit.

Like the Republicans are willing to listen in the first place. He's extended Bush's cuts, kept Guantanamo open, gotten involved in another war, (initially) opposed gay marriage.....

So if you really think these are "centrist" things he has done, why do you think this Obama Republican Congress is soo radically different than the Clinton Republican Congress? You might want to think about this a bit.
Greyparrot
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7/11/2015 10:50:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
On all five major issues that divide the Democratic Party's liberals and moderates (the budget deficit, income inequality, the environment, social issues, and America's role in the world) Obama is on the leftward side.

Liberals give low priority to dealing with the deficit. Obama's recent budget avoids tackling entitlement reform, and he's condemned the GOP's focus on austerity. As The New York Times reports, his $3.9 trillion budget "seeks to energize Democratic voters with populist proposals like a more generous tax credit for the working poor, paid for with higher taxes on the rich." Likewise, liberals are the only political segment in the Pew survey that expresses majority support for paying higher prices to help the environment. Last month, Obama imposed executive orders regulating higher fuel efficiency for trucks, and steered $1 billion in his budget to tackle global warming. The Obama administration's indefinite delays on approving the Keystone XL pipeline is a clear sign that he's on the leftward side of the Democratic divide.

On foreign policy, Pew finds most liberals don't believe in ensuring peace through military strength, and a majority would find it acceptable if another country became "as militarily powerful" as the United States. Obama has cut the Pentagon's budget and has said he wants to focus on nation-building at home instead of abroad. His desire to reduce the American footprint in the Middle East, and seek international consensus on foreign hot spots like Syria and Ukraine, put him squarely in his party's liberal flank.

Meanwhile, in an election year where control of the Senate is hanging in the balance, the White House is ignoring ways to mitigate damage for his party. Approving the Keystone XL pipeline would help many of his party's most vulnerable senators, but the administration has indefinitely delayed a final decision. The White House's controversial nominee to head the Justice Department's Civil Rights division, Debo Adegbile, was rejected by seven Democratic defectors, including two red-state senators on the ballot in 2014. Obama's 2014 campaign strategy to energize the base could help turn out African-American voters in a couple of Senate battlegrounds (North Carolina, Louisiana), but it's a sign he's already given up on persuading white moderates in Republican-friendly states.

Obama may be conveniently "centrist" when making excuses for the loss of Democratic Congress seats, but on all the issues that matter (to both sides) he is nowhere near the center, and all those things you listed as centrist things he has done have a laundry list of addendums (but...) that sours any hope of sane Republican agreement.

Obama was never a compromiser, no Bill Clinton. Neither is Hillary.
xXCryptoXx
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7/11/2015 11:17:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
People like Trump because he's got grit, not because they think he is intelligent. I highly doubt many people think of Trump as a serious candidate.
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