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Ron Paul: There's Two Parties...

GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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8/19/2010 3:45:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
... The Big Government Republicans and the Big Government Democrats.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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8/19/2010 5:23:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 3:46:45 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
And he's in the Big Government Republicans.

He hardly considers himself a Republican even. He speaks of them as "them," not "us."
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/19/2010 7:51:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 5:23:49 PM, mongoose wrote:
He hardly considers himself a Republican even. He speaks of them as "them," not "us."

Then why doesn't he become an independent? He's obviously super popular and works super hard and his district believes in what he says super much, he could probably win as one.

Or is Paul really just like the rest of the politicians there on the Hill, and opportunistic as f*ck?
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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8/19/2010 8:16:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 7:51:10 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/19/2010 5:23:49 PM, mongoose wrote:
He hardly considers himself a Republican even. He speaks of them as "them," not "us."

Then why doesn't he become an independent? He's obviously super popular and works super hard and his district believes in what he says super much, he could probably win as one.

He lives in Texas. If the word "Republican" isn't next to your name on the ticket, you don't get elected.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/19/2010 8:19:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:16:35 PM, wjmelements wrote:
He lives in Texas. If the word "Republican" isn't next to your name on the ticket, you don't get elected.

Why, then, are there 12 Democrats elected to office in congressional districts, and a Democratic gubernatorial candidate who has a very good chance of beating the current GOP governor? Hm?

Besides, it just goes to prove my point.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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8/19/2010 8:20:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:16:35 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 8/19/2010 7:51:10 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/19/2010 5:23:49 PM, mongoose wrote:
He hardly considers himself a Republican even. He speaks of them as "them," not "us."

Then why doesn't he become an independent? He's obviously super popular and works super hard and his district believes in what he says super much, he could probably win as one.

He lives in Texas. If the word "Republican" isn't next to your name on the ticket, you don't get elected.

They won't even vote for libertarians? Wow.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/19/2010 8:36:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Then why doesn't he become an independent? He's obviously super popular and works super hard and his district believes in what he says super much, he could probably win as one.:

He has. He's run as a libertarian, an independent, and a republican.

Or is Paul really just like the rest of the politicians there on the Hill, and opportunistic as f*ck?:

I don't believe that politicians necessarily have to play a stereotyped role.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/19/2010 8:38:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:36:07 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
He has. He's run as a libertarian, an independent, and a republican.

So why, now that he's entrenched, and apparently dissatisfied with the GOP, run as an independent? Before is different - now is better.

I don't believe that politicians necessarily have to play a stereotyped role.

The most successful ones usually do.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/19/2010 8:45:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:19:53 PM, Volkov wrote:
Why, then, are there 12 Democrats elected to office in congressional districts, and a Democratic gubernatorial candidate who has a very good chance of beating the current GOP governor? Hm?

Ever think the Democratic parts of Texas are not near Ron Paul's district? Hm?

Besides, it just goes to prove my point.

Or is Paul really just like the rest of the politicians there on the Hill, and opportunistic as f*ck?

No it doesn't. If Ron Paul ran as something other than a Republican, then he would have to face both a GOPer and a Democrat in the actual election. He would have to split votes with the GOPer. Instead, he's smart and eliminates the GOPer in the primary so he doesn't have to split votes.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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8/19/2010 8:47:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:45:27 PM, Nags wrote:
At 8/19/2010 8:19:53 PM, Volkov wrote:
Why, then, are there 12 Democrats elected to office in congressional districts, and a Democratic gubernatorial candidate who has a very good chance of beating the current GOP governor? Hm?

Ever think the Democratic parts of Texas are not near Ron Paul's district? Hm?

I'm not familiar with the political demographics of Galveston..
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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8/19/2010 8:48:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 7:51:10 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/19/2010 5:23:49 PM, mongoose wrote:
He hardly considers himself a Republican even. He speaks of them as "them," not "us."

Then why doesn't he become an independent? He's obviously super popular and works super hard and his district believes in what he says super much, he could probably win as one.

Or is Paul really just like the rest of the politicians there on the Hill, and opportunistic as f*ck?

Or, *revelation,* maybe, as he's stated publicly multiple times, he's trying to work toward changing the Republican party and getting away from the neoconservative, warmongering, nanny-state views most office holders support. :O
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/19/2010 8:52:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:45:27 PM, Nags wrote:
Ever think the Democratic parts of Texas are not near Ron Paul's district? Hm?

No, because there are about five Democratic districts which border Paul's.

No it doesn't. If Ron Paul ran as something other than a Republican, then he would have to face both a GOPer and a Democrat in the actual election. He would have to split votes with the GOPer. Instead, he's smart and eliminates the GOPer in the primary so he doesn't have to split votes.

So instead of standing on principle, he takes the easiest route to get elected.

Yeah, not opportunistic at all, eh.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/19/2010 8:53:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:48:52 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Or, *revelation,* maybe, as he's stated publicly multiple times, he's trying to work toward changing the Republican party and getting away from the neoconservative, warmongering, nanny-state views most office holders support. :O

And you believe him, or believe that he believes he'll actually succeed?
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/19/2010 8:54:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:47:08 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 8/19/2010 8:45:27 PM, Nags wrote:
At 8/19/2010 8:19:53 PM, Volkov wrote:
Why, then, are there 12 Democrats elected to office in congressional districts, and a Democratic gubernatorial candidate who has a very good chance of beating the current GOP governor? Hm?

Ever think the Democratic parts of Texas are not near Ron Paul's district? Hm?

I'm not familiar with the political demographics of Galveston..

The CPVI (Cook Partisan Voting Index) rates Paul's district as Republican+18, a pretty high rating.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/19/2010 8:56:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:52:32 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/19/2010 8:45:27 PM, Nags wrote:
Ever think the Democratic parts of Texas are not near Ron Paul's district? Hm?

No, because there are about five Democratic districts which border Paul's.

What does the borders have to do with anything?
The US shares a border with Mexico and Canada. hth

So instead of standing on principle, he takes the easiest route to get elected.

Yeah, not opportunistic at all, eh.

He believes the "principle[s]" of the GOP should be changed.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/19/2010 8:58:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:56:01 PM, Nags wrote:
What does the borders have to do with anything?
The US shares a border with Mexico and Canada. hth

Um, you essentially said that the Democratic parts of Texas are nowhere near Paul's district. I pointed out that five Democratic-controlled districts border Texas' 14th. That's kind of, you know, proving you wrong.

He believes the "principle[s]" of the GOP should be changed.

Mhm. Alright then, if he says so. Lol.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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8/19/2010 8:59:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:53:13 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/19/2010 8:48:52 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Or, *revelation,* maybe, as he's stated publicly multiple times, he's trying to work toward changing the Republican party and getting away from the neoconservative, warmongering, nanny-state views most office holders support. :O

And you believe him.

Uh, yeah, based on his voting record, I'm inclined to believe him...

or believe that he believes he'll actually succeed?

Lol, don't you want to be a politician?
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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8/19/2010 9:01:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:59:37 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Lol, don't you want to be a politician?

When you're running for office, I'll make sure to tell your constituents that you don't actually expect succeed with any of the BS proposals you promise them.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/19/2010 9:02:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:58:45 PM, Volkov wrote:
Um, you essentially said that the Democratic parts of Texas are nowhere near Paul's district. I pointed out that five Democratic-controlled districts border Texas' 14th. That's kind of, you know, proving you wrong.

http://www.debate.org...
The political affiliation of districts bordering Paul's has nothing to do with Paul.

He believes the "principle[s]" of the GOP should be changed.

Mhm. Alright then, if he says so. Lol.

Ok?
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/19/2010 9:03:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:59:37 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Uh, yeah, based on his voting record, I'm inclined to believe him...

You think his personal voting record will change the views of the GOP?

Lol, don't you want to be a politician?

When you're running for office, I'll make sure to tell your constituents that you don't actually expect succeed with any of the BS proposals you promise them.

I wouldn't make such wild claims, though. :D
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/19/2010 9:04:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 9:02:10 PM, Nags wrote:
http://www.debate.org...
The political affiliation of districts bordering Paul's has nothing to do with Paul.

So, you saying the fact that Democratic districts border Paul's own has nothing to do with you saying Paul's district is nowhere near Democratic districts.

Okily dokily.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/19/2010 9:05:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 9:03:51 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Then don't quit your day job.

You can get elected without promising the world, J.Kenyon. Don't be so cynical.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/19/2010 9:06:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
By the way - I've enjoyed testing my theory that if I said anything bad about Ron Paul, all the libertarians would rush like fanboys to protect him.

I can now confirm my theory. Anyone willing to peer review it?
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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8/19/2010 9:08:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Volkov, I'm not sure what you're aiming at. Sure, you proved Nags wrong, but that doesn't make you right. This appears to be your form of reasoning:

1. If X is near P, X = P
2. X is Near P
3. Therefore, X = P

I believe this is infromally called the "Palin Fallacy" or the "I can see Russia from my house" argument.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/19/2010 9:08:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 9:04:20 PM, Volkov wrote:
So, you saying the fact that Democratic districts border Paul's own has nothing to do with you saying Paul's district is nowhere near Democratic districts.

Okily dokily.

I said:
At 8/19/2010 8:45:27 PM, Nags wrote:
Ever think the Democratic parts of Texas are not near Ron Paul's district? Hm?

I meant in, not near. And unless you're absolutely clueless, then you should of inferred the same thing. Regardless, you were trying to prove that: Texas does indeed have Democrats, and not just Republicans, and that Ron Paul should be able to run as an independent if he has any integrity. You failed at proving this point. You did however win the semantics argument that there are Democratic districts near Ron Paul's district -- which does nothing for any of your arguments, and it has no bearing on any of the politics of getting elected in Texas's 14th congressional district.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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8/19/2010 9:09:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/19/2010 8:53:13 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/19/2010 8:48:52 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Or, *revelation,* maybe, as he's stated publicly multiple times, he's trying to work toward changing the Republican party and getting away from the neoconservative, warmongering, nanny-state views most office holders support. :O

And you believe him, or believe that he believes he'll actually succeed?

I'm cynical?