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Immigration Reform

Todd0611
Posts: 99
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8/6/2015 6:49:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I live in Houston, so immigration, border protection, and topics revolving around these issues come up all the time. I'd like to hear some solutions about what should be done, and how to address the issue. I have worked in the restaurant industry for years, worked with many legal and illegal immigrants. I see many hard-working people sending money back to their families in Mexico, Guatemala, and other countries; however, I have also seen many of these people dealing drugs, and breaking other laws. It seems that some people ignore the fact that the law was broken when an immigrant comes into the country illegally, and some of these same people want to offer amnesty. I read news stories all the time about someone who came here illegally committing a crime, (which wouldn't have happened if our borders were secure). I can understand why some Hispanics would be offended to prove their citizenship by being asked to show ID, but if the majority of people who are coming here illegally are Hispanic, then how to you confront "profiling" without offending people? Even for those on the side of amnesty, you have to understand that the law was broken (how to you overlook that, if the immigrants want to become "law abiding citizens"). What are your thoughts/ideas on how to address the issue?
JMcKinley
Posts: 314
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8/6/2015 7:56:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It wouldn't be discriminatory for employers to require ID or other proof of citizenship from all employees.

It also would not be discrimination to pass a law stating that employers must be able to show that all employees are citizens.

But those are bandaid solutions that don't address the root of the problem.

My opinion is that many of the problems in Mexico and the rest of Latin America are related to the drug prohibition in the United States. During alcohol prohibition, criminal organizations like the Mafia thrived. The rampant crime it caused in America essentially forced them to repeal the law.

But this time America has not had to deal with the brunt of the crime created by drug prohibition because it has rooted itself outside the countries borders. Its safer for them to hide in Latin America and use disposable lackeys to smuggle their drugs across the border. This crime has been crippling for the development of these countries, and people are fleeing the danger and the economic stagnancy of these countries for the relative safety and prosperity of America.

My opinion is that if you end drug prohibition, illegal immigration will become a minor issue hardly worthy of national attention, and certainly not an election talking point. Sadly the fact that America doesn't need to deal with having drug cartels in their backyard has made them quite apathetic with regards to the crime that prohibition creates. The chance of drug prohibition coming to an end any time soon is very very low.

I have little hard evidence to support this idea, and so I stress that it is my opinion only. I would be very interested if anyone else shares this idea or has evidence that they could share with regards to this idea.
ecco
Posts: 180
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8/6/2015 8:46:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 7:56:41 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
It wouldn't be discriminatory for employers to require ID or other proof of citizenship from all employees.

It also would not be discrimination to pass a law stating that employers must be able to show that all employees are citizens.

Green card is enough.

We need to fine employers, rich people who hire maids up through major corporations who hire poultry workers. Severely. Even including jail for repeat offenders and corporate executives. If we do this, immigrants will soon stop coming knowing they cannot get any kind of employment.

However, this will never happen. Influential people need maids and corporations need cheap laborers who will work below minimum wages and with no benefits.
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The_Running_Mate
Posts: 40
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8/6/2015 9:03:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 6:49:38 PM, Todd0611 wrote:
I live in Houston, so immigration, border protection, and topics revolving around these issues come up all the time. I'd like to hear some solutions about what should be done, and how to address the issue. I have worked in the restaurant industry for years, worked with many legal and illegal immigrants. I see many hard-working people sending money back to their families in Mexico, Guatemala, and other countries; however, I have also seen many of these people dealing drugs, and breaking other laws. It seems that some people ignore the fact that the law was broken when an immigrant comes into the country illegally, and some of these same people want to offer amnesty. I read news stories all the time about someone who came here illegally committing a crime, (which wouldn't have happened if our borders were secure). I can understand why some Hispanics would be offended to prove their citizenship by being asked to show ID, but if the majority of people who are coming here illegally are Hispanic, then how to you confront "profiling" without offending people? Even for those on the side of amnesty, you have to understand that the law was broken (how to you overlook that, if the immigrants want to become "law abiding citizens"). What are your thoughts/ideas on how to address the issue?

I think the very first thing we need to do is to better secure the borders. With all the funding and resources at hand, especially after 9/11 this should not be nearly as difficult as it has for some reason appeared to be in the past. After that, we still should prosecute and export back to their homeland any illegals who have been here less than five years.
However if they have been here six years or more and have had no legal troubles and have contributed to society by doing things like having gainful employment and raising a family than they should be given amnesty.
But they have to come forward. So the Federal Government issues this amnesty offer for those who have been here 6 or more years. They come forward, report themselves, and they get a pass to begin taking citizenry classes which would take maybe 6-mos., at twice-weekly classes. Complete all this and they are U.S. citizens.
But even if they have been here for over five years and have stayed out of trouble and gotten employment but the DON'T report themselves to begin Amnesty proceedings, they still stand a chance of exportation if caught. This would be determined on a case-by-case basis.
So basically, do well for over five years, report yourself, take the classes and get citizenship. Failing any of this and you risk deportation.
AdamEsk
Posts: 202
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8/6/2015 9:09:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
We need to fine employers, rich people who hire maids up through major corporations who hire poultry workers. Severely. Even including jail for repeat offenders and corporate executives. If we do this, immigrants will soon stop coming knowing they cannot get any kind of employment.

What's wrong with illegals coming here and working their tails off?
Todd0611
Posts: 99
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8/6/2015 9:23:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 9:09:01 PM, AdamEsk wrote:
We need to fine employers, rich people who hire maids up through major corporations who hire poultry workers. Severely. Even including jail for repeat offenders and corporate executives. If we do this, immigrants will soon stop coming knowing they cannot get any kind of employment.

What's wrong with illegals coming here and working their tails off?
It's the LEGAL issue that I have a problem with. Like I mentioned in my OP, I've worked with many of these hard working people, but they are breaking the law by being here illegally. They aren't paying taxes if they're here illegally, nor paying insurance (car and health), which impacts legal citizens. If they get into a car wreck with a legal resident, and they have no insurance, then what recourse does that individual have? They must be using public services, like roads (which are maintained via tax dollars, which they aren't contributing towards). If they are receiving medical care at the ER, then someone is footing the bill. I'm all for people coming here legally, paying their share of taxes, and contributing to society. Some kind of amnesty can be worked out (it has to be, because there's no way to round up 10+ million illegal immigrants).
AdamEsk
Posts: 202
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8/6/2015 9:34:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's the LEGAL issue that I have a problem with. Like I mentioned in my OP, I've worked with many of these hard working people, but they are breaking the law by being here illegally. They aren't paying taxes if they're here illegally, nor paying insurance (car and health), which impacts legal citizens. If they get into a car wreck with a legal resident, and they have no insurance, then what recourse does that individual have? They must be using public services, like roads (which are maintained via tax dollars, which they aren't contributing towards). If they are receiving medical care at the ER, then someone is footing the bill. I'm all for people coming here legally, paying their share of taxes, and contributing to society. Some kind of amnesty can be worked out (it has to be, because there's no way to round up 10+ million illegal immigrants).

Lets say they want to pay taxes and partake in insurance but don't want to go through the process of becoming a citizen. Get rid of them?
Todd0611
Posts: 99
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8/6/2015 9:48:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 9:34:50 PM, AdamEsk wrote:
It's the LEGAL issue that I have a problem with. Like I mentioned in my OP, I've worked with many of these hard working people, but they are breaking the law by being here illegally. They aren't paying taxes if they're here illegally, nor paying insurance (car and health), which impacts legal citizens. If they get into a car wreck with a legal resident, and they have no insurance, then what recourse does that individual have? They must be using public services, like roads (which are maintained via tax dollars, which they aren't contributing towards). If they are receiving medical care at the ER, then someone is footing the bill. I'm all for people coming here legally, paying their share of taxes, and contributing to society. Some kind of amnesty can be worked out (it has to be, because there's no way to round up 10+ million illegal immigrants).

Lets say they want to pay taxes and partake in insurance but don't want to go through the process of becoming a citizen. Get rid of them?

Theoretically, yes since they are breaking the law. I am simplifying the law, but if anyone is here illegally, then technically they are supposed to be deported, unless there are circumstances that warrant them staying here (work visa, or other). I'd have to look up the law, but I'm sure my paraphrase of it is close. That's the issue to me that many overlook, the US wrote laws on immigration, and if you do not obey them, then there are consequences. The problem is the law hasn't been enforced properly.
AdamEsk
Posts: 202
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8/6/2015 11:42:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Theoretically, yes since they are breaking the law. I am simplifying the law, but if anyone is here illegally, then technically they are supposed to be deported, unless there are circumstances that warrant them staying here (work visa, or other). I'd have to look up the law, but I'm sure my paraphrase of it is close. That's the issue to me that many overlook, the US wrote laws on immigration, and if you do not obey them, then there are consequences. The problem is the law hasn't been enforced properly.

I think the hard working illegals aren't a threat to our nation regardless of their citizenship. The threat, however, lies in the ones that come over simply for the welfare assistance. The way to stop that, in my opinion, would be to create a stricter welfare system that would be unobtainable to that type of immigrant. I want a welfare system so repugnant to any "system cheater" that he/she is demotivated from illegally coming here. If someone has the balls to come across the border, find a job, and work their tail off for their family, I don't even care if they become citizens.
ecco
Posts: 180
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8/7/2015 3:36:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 9:09:01 PM, AdamEsk wrote:
We need to fine employers, rich people who hire maids up through major corporations who hire poultry workers. Severely. Even including jail for repeat offenders and corporate executives. If we do this, immigrants will soon stop coming knowing they cannot get any kind of employment.

What's wrong with illegals coming here and working their tails off?

Uh, it's illegal!

There are people from all over the globe who want to immigrate to America. We have rules and regulations and laws and quotas. I'm not for stopping immigration. I am against people who do it illegally. I am also against people who foster illegal immigration.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/7/2015 3:52:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 8:46:56 PM, ecco wrote:
At 8/6/2015 7:56:41 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
It wouldn't be discriminatory for employers to require ID or other proof of citizenship from all employees.

It also would not be discrimination to pass a law stating that employers must be able to show that all employees are citizens.

Green card is enough.

We need to fine employers, rich people who hire maids up through major corporations who hire poultry workers. Severely. Even including jail for repeat offenders and corporate executives. If we do this, immigrants will soon stop coming knowing they cannot get any kind of employment.

Why should the CEO of a company be fined/jailed for the actions of the manager of a store?

However, this will never happen. Influential people need maids and corporations need cheap laborers who will work below minimum wages and with no benefits.

I could be wrong, but I would wager that most corporations don't hire illegals to pay them less than minimum wage. I have never seen it, and I've worked with illegals before. I'd wager small businesses are more likely to pay less than minimum wage, just as they are more likely to pay minimum wage than corporations.
They hire illegals because they will work for the low wage, and do a good job; something that teenagers don't seem capable or willing to do.
My work here is, finally, done.
ecco
Posts: 180
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8/7/2015 4:25:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

Why should the CEO of a company be fined/jailed for the actions of the manager of a store?

That's a good wuestion. Ask Republicans why they blame Obama for contorversy at the IRS or the VA or...

However, this will never happen. Influential people need maids and corporations need cheap laborers who will work below minimum wages and with no benefits.

I could be wrong, but I would wager that most corporations don't hire illegals to pay them less than minimum wage.
They hire illegals because they will work for the low wage, and do a good job; something that teenagers don't seem capable or willing to do.

Maybe if we did not have 10 million illegal aliens in the US, companies would have to provide decent wages.

Don't take my word for it; Google illegal aliens food industry or illegal aliens services industry
Think
ToddsAmerica
Posts: 28
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8/7/2015 8:48:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/6/2015 9:09:01 PM, AdamEsk wrote:
We need to fine employers, rich people who hire maids up through major corporations who hire poultry workers. Severely. Even including jail for repeat offenders and corporate executives. If we do this, immigrants will soon stop coming knowing they cannot get any kind of employment.

What's wrong with illegals coming here and working their tails off?

Downward pressure on wages, pressure on public finances that are already strained, further degradation of the American dominant culture (that is true only if there is no cultural assimilation, and higher rates of social problems.
ToddsAmerica
Posts: 28
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8/7/2015 8:52:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/7/2015 3:52:42 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/6/2015 8:46:56 PM, ecco wrote:
At 8/6/2015 7:56:41 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
It wouldn't be discriminatory for employers to require ID or other proof of citizenship from all employees.

It also would not be discrimination to pass a law stating that employers must be able to show that all employees are citizens.

Green card is enough.

We need to fine employers, rich people who hire maids up through major corporations who hire poultry workers. Severely. Even including jail for repeat offenders and corporate executives. If we do this, immigrants will soon stop coming knowing they cannot get any kind of employment.

Why should the CEO of a company be fined/jailed for the actions of the manager of a store?

Fined makes sense. Jailed doesn't.


However, this will never happen. Influential people need maids and corporations need cheap laborers who will work below minimum wages and with no benefits.

I could be wrong, but I would wager that most corporations don't hire illegals to pay them less than minimum wage. I have never seen it, and I've worked with illegals before. I'd wager small businesses are more likely to pay less than minimum wage, just as they are more likely to pay minimum wage than corporations.
They hire illegals because they will work for the low wage, and do a good job; something that teenagers don't seem capable or willing to do.

I would say it has a lot more to do with the low wage thing than the good job thing.

There are plenty of Americans who are willing to work low level jobs for a decent wage, but why would a progressive company hire them when they can exploit the system by mass importing foreigners who destroy the American culture and provide cheap labor!
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/7/2015 9:13:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/7/2015 4:25:48 PM, ecco wrote:

Why should the CEO of a company be fined/jailed for the actions of the manager of a store?

That's a good wuestion. Ask Republicans why they blame Obama for contorversy at the IRS or the VA or...

Are you suggesting there is no difference between a policy and a hiring decision? The CEO does not make hiring decisions. Now, if there was a policy to hire illegals, that is another story, but this is akin to holding the CEO liable for an employee who steals a credit card number. However, this is only half of my concern with your statement.

I don't hear anyone saying Obama should be personally fined, jailed, or in any way personally responsible for anything he has done, outside of impeachment (well, maybe a few crazies say it's treason, but you know what I mean). Fining the CEO is holding the CEO responsible PERSONALLY, in addition to any professional fallout. Bad PR is bad for business, and is bad for the CEO, who may be fired, but you are saying not that the company should be fined for the illegal hiring, but the CEO should be personally fined as well. Why not the hiring manager, too?

And, as far as blaming the president (or CEO), it's what everyone does, good or bad. The president isn't to blame for the economy, but is often praised or blamed for it. And, they are in charge of those departments, so criticism of the holder of the position is warranted, but not at a personal level.

However, this will never happen. Influential people need maids and corporations need cheap laborers who will work below minimum wages and with no benefits.

I could be wrong, but I would wager that most corporations don't hire illegals to pay them less than minimum wage.
They hire illegals because they will work for the low wage, and do a good job; something that teenagers don't seem capable or willing to do.

Maybe if we did not have 10 million illegal aliens in the US, companies would have to provide decent wages.
Key word is maybe, and maybe teens would still be boxed out.

Don't take my word for it; Google illegal aliens food industry or illegal aliens services industry
And, it's going to show how major corporations are specifically hiring people so they can pay them less than minimum wage? Not cheap labor, and not as a side benefit, but for the reason to pay them said wage?
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/7/2015 9:16:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/7/2015 8:52:57 PM, ToddsAmerica wrote:
At 8/7/2015 3:52:42 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/6/2015 8:46:56 PM, ecco wrote:
At 8/6/2015 7:56:41 PM, JMcKinley wrote:
It wouldn't be discriminatory for employers to require ID or other proof of citizenship from all employees.

It also would not be discrimination to pass a law stating that employers must be able to show that all employees are citizens.

Green card is enough.

We need to fine employers, rich people who hire maids up through major corporations who hire poultry workers. Severely. Even including jail for repeat offenders and corporate executives. If we do this, immigrants will soon stop coming knowing they cannot get any kind of employment.

Why should the CEO of a company be fined/jailed for the actions of the manager of a store?


Fined makes sense. Jailed doesn't.
Why should the CEO be charged and not the company? Why not also the COO, CFO, and everyone up the ladder from the hiring manager to the CEO?



However, this will never happen. Influential people need maids and corporations need cheap laborers who will work below minimum wages and with no benefits.

I could be wrong, but I would wager that most corporations don't hire illegals to pay them less than minimum wage. I have never seen it, and I've worked with illegals before. I'd wager small businesses are more likely to pay less than minimum wage, just as they are more likely to pay minimum wage than corporations.
They hire illegals because they will work for the low wage, and do a good job; something that teenagers don't seem capable or willing to do.


I would say it has a lot more to do with the low wage thing than the good job thing.
I would say it is because they'd rather hire someone who wants to work and is mature (30), as opposed to some teen who is more concerned with having fun than doing their job. But, that's just my experience.

There are plenty of Americans who are willing to work low level jobs for a decent wage, but why would a progressive company hire them when they can exploit the system by mass importing foreigners who destroy the American culture and provide cheap labor!

There are plenty of Americans who will work for any wage.
My work here is, finally, done.