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Libertarianism

bsh1
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8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,239
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8/15/2015 3:01:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I think government social programs mixed with a libertarian free market economy work pretty well. Best of both worlds.
bsh1
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8/16/2015 1:48:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Bump
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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ford_prefect
Posts: 4,138
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8/16/2015 7:38:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I've noticed that the vast majority of libertarians I've encountered are not economically independent. They usually go to college on mommy and daddy's dime.
DisKamper
Posts: 63
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8/16/2015 8:29:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The primary issue I see with it is that it is not necessarily an equal opportunity system. With libertarianism there is not always a way to avoid risks such as born to a poor family. On the other hand, with something like social democracy, there tend to be no risks at all- which also doesn't make sense. People should be able to pick which risks they want to take.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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8/16/2015 9:09:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I'm not an absolute, cut and dry libertarian, but I am when it comes to the powers that we give government. I basically think that people give the benefit of the doubt to government in far too many situations, and then when government does do atrocious things with that power, they shrug it off rather stupidly, as if it cannot happen again because we're better than our ancestors (sedition laws, Japanese internment camps, COINTELPRO, McCarthyism) I see trusting government with the power to do these things as incredible silly and shortsighted; the goal should be to structure government powers in such a way that they wouldn't be able to do these things even if they wanted to, not to give them the power to do these things and trust in their good will. Both Thomas Paine and Machiavelli put it remarkably well, I think.

"As all those have shown who have discussed civil institutions, and as every history is full of examples, it is necessary to whoever arranges to found a Republic and establish laws in it to presuppose that all men are bad and that they will use their malignity of mind every time they have the opportunity."
- Discourses on Livy -

"Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher.

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform, and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expence and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others."
- Common Sense -
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
YYW
Posts: 36,250
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8/16/2015 9:17:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

Libertarianism in the US is weird. It's true that Nozick and Rand have definitely had some influence on the Libertarian movement, but most libertarians just want two things: don't take my taxes and leave me alone. Some other people actually even go further and say leave other people alone too, because you have no right to tell them what to do. I'm ok with that.

I think in principal I have a lot in common with Libertarians, but at the same time I'm not one of them. I like a state that is strong enough to keep civil society functioning, because the alternative is chaos.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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8/16/2015 9:40:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 9:17:17 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

Libertarianism in the US is weird. It's true that Nozick and Rand have definitely had some influence on the Libertarian movement, but most libertarians just want two things: don't take my taxes and leave me alone. Some other people actually even go further and say leave other people alone too, because you have no right to tell them what to do. I'm ok with that.

I think in principal I have a lot in common with Libertarians, but at the same time I'm not one of them. I like a state that is strong enough to keep civil society functioning, because the alternative is chaos.

It's interesting, because you're libertarian on a lot of social issues, whereas I am not, lol. It's interesting how we can share really similar views on economic policy, while we can disagree on the social issues.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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8/16/2015 9:41:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 7:38:36 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I've noticed that the vast majority of libertarians I've encountered are not economically independent. They usually go to college on mommy and daddy's dime.

Lol...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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8/16/2015 10:04:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

Well, supposedly, it works because the 'invisible hand' of the free market can distribute resources more effectively than the government can.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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8/16/2015 10:07:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 10:04:25 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

Well, supposedly, it works because the 'invisible hand' of the free market can distribute resources more effectively than the government can.

Yeah, that's silly.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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AdamEsk
Posts: 202
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8/17/2015 3:02:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I simply am a Libertarian because it encourages independence. I believe it is foolish to entrust the government to argue all day on what is best for you. You know what is best for you, and you just need a chance to express it. Plus I am a HUGE fan of Free Market Capitalism (when it is at its perfectly competitive state).
Oreo222
Posts: 180
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8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,239
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8/18/2015 2:07:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.

It also won't work because it relies on a consumer's good judgement which is also lacking.
Oreo222
Posts: 180
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8/18/2015 2:08:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:07:27 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.

It also won't work because it relies on a consumer's good judgement which is also lacking.

True.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,239
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8/18/2015 2:11:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:08:12 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:07:27 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.

It also won't work because it relies on a consumer's good judgement which is also lacking.

True.

Benevolent dictator is where it's at.
Oreo222
Posts: 180
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8/18/2015 2:12:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:11:25 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:08:12 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:07:27 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.

It also won't work because it relies on a consumer's good judgement which is also lacking.

True.

Benevolent dictator is where it's at.

I'd have to disagree since not many benevolent dictators have ever existed.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,239
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8/18/2015 2:13:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:12:37 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:11:25 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:08:12 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:07:27 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.

It also won't work because it relies on a consumer's good judgement which is also lacking.

True.

Benevolent dictator is where it's at.

I'd have to disagree since not many benevolent dictators have ever existed.

sadface :(
Oreo222
Posts: 180
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8/18/2015 2:14:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:13:25 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:12:37 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:11:25 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:08:12 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:07:27 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.

It also won't work because it relies on a consumer's good judgement which is also lacking.

True.

Benevolent dictator is where it's at.

I'd have to disagree since not many benevolent dictators have ever existed.

sadface :(

Sorry, just keeping it real though.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/18/2015 7:20:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:11:25 AM, Greyparrot wrote:

Benevolent dictator is where it's at.

Damn skippy!!
My work here is, finally, done.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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8/18/2015 7:40:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:11:25 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:08:12 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:07:27 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.

It also won't work because it relies on a consumer's good judgement which is also lacking.

True.

Benevolent dictator is where it's at.

Lee Kuan Yew
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,226
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8/19/2015 2:20:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

Because pointing guns at people and ordering them to do things with their lives is generally considered slavery.
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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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8/19/2015 2:20:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/19/2015 2:20:32 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

Because pointing guns at people and ordering them to do things with their lives is generally considered slavery.

Lol
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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8/19/2015 6:15:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 10:07:48 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 8/16/2015 10:04:25 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

Well, supposedly, it works because the 'invisible hand' of the free market can distribute resources more effectively than the government can.

Yeah, that's silly.

I'm not sure how it's silly for an individual to know better what they need for themselves than the government. Not to mention the government does a pretty shittty job of distributing resources as it is. It's kinda why people risk their lives to leave socialist countries and go to capitalist countries.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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8/19/2015 6:16:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.

No it doesn't. In fact their would be less CEOS IN a free market and more mom and pop places.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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8/19/2015 6:18:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:07:27 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.

It also won't work because it relies on a consumer's good judgement which is also lacking.

Yeah, fvck the consumer. They should take what the government gives them instead of deciding for themselves.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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8/19/2015 6:19:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/18/2015 2:11:25 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:08:12 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:07:27 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.

It also won't work because it relies on a consumer's good judgement which is also lacking.

True.

Benevolent dictator is where it's at.

Well I can agree with that, but the guy has to die at some point, and benevolent isn't enough. You need something like a philosopher King
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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8/19/2015 6:21:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/19/2015 2:20:32 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

Because pointing guns at people and ordering them to do things with their lives is generally considered slavery.

That's true. I don't think liberals have the intellectual honesty to admit that though.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,239
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8/19/2015 1:26:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/19/2015 6:18:02 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 8/18/2015 2:07:27 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/18/2015 1:40:23 AM, Oreo222 wrote:
At 8/15/2015 2:21:26 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Whether you're a Nozickian, Randian, or some other "-ian" libertarian, why do you think libertarianism works? If you think it doesn't work, why do you believe that? Please comment.

I don't think Libertarianism works because it relies too much on a CEO's good will, which often times is lacking.

It also won't work because it relies on a consumer's good judgement which is also lacking.

Yeah, fvck the consumer. They should take what the government gives them instead of deciding for themselves.

I agree. People suck, and are stupid, and need coddling. Mandated socialism is where it's at, preferably from a benevolent dictator philosopher king.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,239
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8/19/2015 1:28:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/16/2015 7:38:36 PM, ford_prefect wrote:
I've noticed that the vast majority of libertarians I've encountered are not economically independent. They usually go to college on mommy and daddy's dime.

Real men become slaves to the bank at an early age.