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Opinions of comedians like John Oliver?

OberHerr
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8/17/2015 4:38:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Couldn't really fit this in the title, but what are your thoughts on journalist comedians like John Stewart, John Oliver, Colbert, and somewhat Bill Maher?

Me personally, while I find them funny sometimes, I just dislike the whole comedic style they tend to use. Far too many of the jokes seem to be based on just being loud and STRESSING A POINT! ISN'T THIS FUNNY?! I'M STRESSING THE POINT, AND BEING LOUD!!!!

Doesn't help that I tend to disagreed with their political views, though the jokes can still be funny even if they are targeted against my views.

I do get annoyed when people act like they are somehow the pinnacle of journalism because they are just reaffirming their target audiences views.

Overall, I can enjoy them sometimes, especially when the jokes aren't targeting anything in particular, but I find the humor often times is just too loud and obnoxious. Colbert generally does, or I guess did, do this pretty well.

So what are your thoughts?
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/17/2015 6:03:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 4:38:24 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Couldn't really fit this in the title, but what are your thoughts on journalist comedians like John Stewart, John Oliver, Colbert, and somewhat Bill Maher?

Me personally, while I find them funny sometimes, I just dislike the whole comedic style they tend to use. Far too many of the jokes seem to be based on just being loud and STRESSING A POINT! ISN'T THIS FUNNY?! I'M STRESSING THE POINT, AND BEING LOUD!!!!
Can you give an example?

I used to watch the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, and I generally found him pretty funny, although, I largely didn't like the other folks...too crude, too often.

While I enjoyed him making fun of things that were worth making fun of, even if they were things I agreed with, at times I did find myself very angry with the framing of the ridicule.
I remember when one of the bailed out companies (A something) sued the federal government for giving different terms to its company, and more favorable terms to others, and Stewart framed the issue as being greedy. While I am sure that is partly true, there is still a valid point that the government wasn't being equal in its bailout terms, and he just glossed over that to take about how it's quite a d!ck thing to bite the hand that fed you.

And, while they may not be the best journalists, I do relish in their research team at finding contradictions of politicians and whatnot.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/17/2015 6:14:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh, and I can't stand Bill Maher.
I don't find it funny, when he is spewing such hate. Maybe if I found him to be more open-minded, but I doubt he is.

It's like a racist telling a racist joke - it's not funny, it's just uncomfortable, because it's not a joke, just a rant.
My work here is, finally, done.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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8/17/2015 6:17:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 6:03:25 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/17/2015 4:38:24 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Couldn't really fit this in the title, but what are your thoughts on journalist comedians like John Stewart, John Oliver, Colbert, and somewhat Bill Maher?

Me personally, while I find them funny sometimes, I just dislike the whole comedic style they tend to use. Far too many of the jokes seem to be based on just being loud and STRESSING A POINT! ISN'T THIS FUNNY?! I'M STRESSING THE POINT, AND BEING LOUD!!!!
Can you give an example?


I used to watch the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, and I generally found him pretty funny, although, I largely didn't like the other folks...too crude, too often.

While I enjoyed him making fun of things that were worth making fun of, even if they were things I agreed with, at times I did find myself very angry with the framing of the ridicule.
I remember when one of the bailed out companies (A something) sued the federal government for giving different terms to its company, and more favorable terms to others, and Stewart framed the issue as being greedy. While I am sure that is partly true, there is still a valid point that the government wasn't being equal in its bailout terms, and he just glossed over that to take about how it's quite a d!ck thing to bite the hand that fed you.

And, while they may not be the best journalists, I do relish in their research team at finding contradictions of politicians and whatnot.

https://www.youtube.com...

I meant to give example videos in the OP.

Just watching this video, you can see, around 1:00 and up, he makes jokes by just...mocking the televangelists. Do I think what the televangelists are doing is silly? Yes. Is it funny to watch? Yes. Is it funny when he does literally the same thing just mocking them a few seconds after they do it....not really.

Its just a lot of the same stuff we see right before.

Maybe its just my humor, but I dislike it.

I'm not gonna say that they are always wrong, even on issues I disagreed with them on. The problem is that it just becomes almost like a left-wing version of the O'Reilly Factor, where its just one side spinning the story how it pleases and making generalizations and jokes all condensed into a ten or twenty minute bit which may or may not contain all the facts or insight necessary to actually study or breakdown an issue.

And they do it in a way that makes the "above it all".
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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wsmunit7
Posts: 1,318
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8/17/2015 7:29:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 4:38:24 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Couldn't really fit this in the title, but what are your thoughts on journalist comedians like John Stewart, John Oliver, Colbert, and somewhat Bill Maher?


I don't think any one of these people mentioned every claim to be "journalist". They don't report the news, they take the news "as reported" and make "satire" out of it.

Me personally, while I find them funny sometimes, I just dislike the whole comedic style they tend to use. Far too many of the jokes seem to be based on just being loud and STRESSING A POINT! ISN'T THIS FUNNY?! I'M STRESSING THE POINT, AND BEING LOUD!!!!

Doesn't help that I tend to disagreed with their political views, though the jokes can still be funny even if they are targeted against my views.

I do get annoyed when people act like they are somehow the pinnacle of journalism because they are just reaffirming their target audiences views.


I haven't seen any one of the people mentioned "act like they are somehow the pinnacle of journalism ". None of them have EVER used the slogan "fair and balanced" , as used by the most comedic news source that has ever existed.

Overall, I can enjoy them sometimes, especially when the jokes aren't targeting anything in particular, but I find the humor often times is just too loud and obnoxious. Colbert generally does, or I guess did, do this pretty well.

So what are your thoughts?

My thoughts? They are comedians, not journalist. They have never claimed to be anything other than comedians; unlike Faux News, which claims to be news, but is really comedy.
OberHerr
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8/17/2015 8:03:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 7:29:27 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
I don't think any one of these people mentioned every claim to be "journalist". They don't report the news, they take the news "as reported" and make "satire" out of it.

I haven't seen any one of the people mentioned "act like they are somehow the pinnacle of journalism ". None of them have EVER used the slogan "fair and balanced" , as used by the most comedic news source that has ever existed.

My thoughts? They are comedians, not journalist. They have never claimed to be anything other than comedians; unlike Faux News, which claims to be news, but is really comedy.

Except that's just a cop out to hide behind.

Saying "I'm just a comedian, don't take me seriously" while at the same time presenting your arguments and opinions as facts against them.

If you openly criticize something you have to fess up to it, and not hide behind "its just comedy" when someone calls you out on something.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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ben2974
Posts: 767
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8/17/2015 8:36:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 4:38:24 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Couldn't really fit this in the title, but what are your thoughts on journalist comedians like John Stewart, John Oliver, Colbert, and somewhat Bill Maher?

Me personally, while I find them funny sometimes, I just dislike the whole comedic style they tend to use. Far too many of the jokes seem to be based on just being loud and STRESSING A POINT! ISN'T THIS FUNNY?! I'M STRESSING THE POINT, AND BEING LOUD!!!!

Doesn't help that I tend to disagreed with their political views, though the jokes can still be funny even if they are targeted against my views.

I do get annoyed when people act like they are somehow the pinnacle of journalism because they are just reaffirming their target audiences views.

Overall, I can enjoy them sometimes, especially when the jokes aren't targeting anything in particular, but I find the humor often times is just too loud and obnoxious. Colbert generally does, or I guess did, do this pretty well.

So what are your thoughts?

I get this. I feel like the only reason the public views these "comedic journalists" so positively (in their effort to report material) is because through joking these "journalists" can report on any topic and receive less criticism from opposition because their defense is that it's "just a joke!" So they can get away with being completely partial while accruing good will from both sides of the political spectrum.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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8/17/2015 8:40:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 8:03:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 8/17/2015 7:29:27 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
I don't think any one of these people mentioned every claim to be "journalist". They don't report the news, they take the news "as reported" and make "satire" out of it.

I haven't seen any one of the people mentioned "act like they are somehow the pinnacle of journalism ". None of them have EVER used the slogan "fair and balanced" , as used by the most comedic news source that has ever existed.

My thoughts? They are comedians, not journalist. They have never claimed to be anything other than comedians; unlike Faux News, which claims to be news, but is really comedy.

Except that's just a cop out to hide behind.

Saying "I'm just a comedian, don't take me seriously" while at the same time presenting your arguments and opinions as facts against them.

If you openly criticize something you have to fess up to it, and not hide behind "its just comedy" when someone calls you out on something.

YES.
numberwang
Posts: 1,917
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8/17/2015 9:29:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/17/2015 8:03:10 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 8/17/2015 7:29:27 PM, wsmunit7 wrote:
I don't think any one of these people mentioned every claim to be "journalist". They don't report the news, they take the news "as reported" and make "satire" out of it.

I haven't seen any one of the people mentioned "act like they are somehow the pinnacle of journalism ". None of them have EVER used the slogan "fair and balanced" , as used by the most comedic news source that has ever existed.

My thoughts? They are comedians, not journalist. They have never claimed to be anything other than comedians; unlike Faux News, which claims to be news, but is really comedy.

Except that's just a cop out to hide behind.

Saying "I'm just a comedian, don't take me seriously" while at the same time presenting your arguments and opinions as facts against them.

They definitely aren't saying "we are comedians, don't take us seriously". Obviously comedians like Stewart and Colbert have messages they'd like to communicate and taken seriously. What Stewart (the only one to really answer this charge) has regularly said is that he is a entertainer, not a journalist, so he shouldn't be held to the same standards as network news shows in terms of what he covers or how he covers it.

Maher is a bit different since he really only attacks the right and his show's format is much less informative and is much more like a typical late night show. And Oliver's show is probably more informative, but takes on lots of less political issues.

The main point is that they don't claim to be newsmen but they do want to be taken seriously and they should be held to basic editorial standards for what they say in terms of being factual. I think they are held to those basic editorial standards; they very often don't misrepresent facts even if they do put satirical or comedic spins on things. There isn't anything wrong with constructing facts into arguments for satire or comedy, especially not when that's your job.

Now if you're drawing a comparison between what Stewart does and what O'Riley does that's where the comedian thing is critical. O'Riley is on a news network. O'Riley was a journalist before having his own show. O'Riley's show is supposed to be informative above all else. It is a commentary show, but when it's on a news network, between news shows, and made to look like a news program, with a journalist host and an informative purpose.
Stewart is a comedian. Stewart did stand up before having his own show. Stewart's purpose is to entertain people with comedy above all else. It's a comedy show with a talk show format, they have guests on to promote their crap, and yeah it has a serious tone and is informative, but it's point has always to be comedic and satirical.

So when O'Riley is criticized for promoting an agenda or having biases or only showing one side of an issue, its a legitimate criticism because O'Riley purports not to have bias or agenda and to truthfully tell the news like a journalist. He can and should be held to being factual and unbiased.

When Stewart is criticized for promoting an agenda or having biases it doesn't really make sense, because he isn't a newsman and he isn't pretending to be. He should be held to being factually accurate, because anyone on TV shouldn't be saying false things. But beyond that, there isn't any reason why Stewart shouldn't be able to have bias or agenda because his purpose is to be funny.

If you openly criticize something you have to fess up to it, and not hide behind "its just comedy" when someone calls you out on something.

I'd challenge you to look at any Jon Stewart interview anywhere on fox where he fails to justify or defend any criticisms he makes (I say Stewart since he was most often with the train of thought you are using now). He definitely does stand by the things he says and the points he make. But if you're waiting for him or anyone else to admit that they should be held to the standards of network news in terms of reporting things unbaisedly or without any sort of satirical message, that will never happen. His point is to entertain, not to report news. If people who exclusively watch Stewart, Colbert, Oliver or Maher come away without a full understanding of a news story, it's their fault for relying on comedy shows for news, and Stewart, at least, regularly says that. Although, people who watch Stewart and Colbert were regularly better informed than network news viewers, so they're weren't doing a bad job at informing people.
xXCryptoXx
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8/17/2015 10:08:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I generally don't like them and I don't think news should be mixed with entertainment (lest the truth be muddled), but I have liked Colbert from what I have seen.
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