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Pro-War Libertarians

Reasoning
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9/3/2010 6:14:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
are a contradiction.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Korashk
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9/3/2010 6:27:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'd say this is half-true.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
LaissezFaire
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9/3/2010 6:29:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/3/2010 6:27:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'd say this is half-true.

How so?
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
Korashk
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9/3/2010 6:35:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/3/2010 6:29:55 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 9/3/2010 6:27:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'd say this is half-true.

How so?

I'd support a defensive war.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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9/3/2010 6:52:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/3/2010 6:27:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'd say this is half-true.

It's entirely true. Libertarians = no taxes = no government = no war.
President of DDO
Steelerman6794
Posts: 158
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9/3/2010 7:04:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/3/2010 6:52:38 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 9/3/2010 6:27:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'd say this is half-true.

It's entirely true. Libertarians = no taxes = no government = no war.

I'm pretty anti-war libertarian-ish, but that statement you made applies to anarchists, not libertarians. Like every other ideology, moderation and common sense is key. Just ask Professor Beck :)
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/3/2010 7:14:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/3/2010 7:04:36 PM, Steelerman6794 wrote:
At 9/3/2010 6:52:38 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 9/3/2010 6:27:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'd say this is half-true.

It's entirely true. Libertarians = no taxes = no government = no war.

I'm pretty anti-war libertarian-ish, but that statement you made applies to anarchists, not libertarians. Like every other ideology, moderation and common sense is key. Just ask Professor Beck :)

Libertarian does not mean no government. But it is not compatible with moderation. Or taxes. "Common sense" is a concept with no referent in reality.

(However, a non-tax government can still fund war. It's slightly more difficult, which means there'll be no nation-building nonsense.)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Reasoning
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9/3/2010 7:34:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/3/2010 7:04:36 PM, Steelerman6794 wrote:
Like every other ideology, moderation and common sense is key. Just ask Professor Beck :)

"Reality knows no moderation; it is - all the way." - SEK3
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Ragnar_Rahl
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9/3/2010 8:27:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
what percent of what you post is quotes Reasoning? Gotta be over 9000.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
belle
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9/3/2010 8:38:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/3/2010 6:52:38 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 9/3/2010 6:27:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'd say this is half-true.

It's entirely true. Libertarians = no taxes = no government = no war.

and liberals= love everyone= hippies= no war.

....eh?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Ragnar_Rahl
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9/3/2010 8:41:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/3/2010 8:38:26 PM, belle wrote:
At 9/3/2010 6:52:38 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 9/3/2010 6:27:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'd say this is half-true.

It's entirely true. Libertarians = no taxes = no government = no war.

and liberals= love everyone= hippies= no war.

....eh?

and religious conservatives = reject worldliness= no material goods = no guns= no war.

and communism = eradicate money = nationalize factories = crappy factories can't produce guns = no war.

And fascism = kill everyone who even mildly pisses you off with gas chambers= everyone left gets along = Thomas More and no war.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
20000miles
Posts: 53
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9/3/2010 8:43:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You'd think that there exists some kind of war that's justified (i.e. a just war).

Libertopia would still have to defend itself from States. Defence is still an economic good like any other. If you consider a defensive war just then what would be wrong with paying some mercenaries to defend Libertopia from invasion?

Furthermore, what would make me not-a-libertarian for supporting such a move?
Sieben
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9/3/2010 8:45:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't think the OP is stupid enough to say libertarians reject self defense... By "war" he means normal wars, like the iraq war or vietnam.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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9/3/2010 8:48:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Both of which were part of a policy of defending oneself.

Those particular governments had not necessarily aggressed against the US (though they did aggress against other parties). But their actions assist those who do.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
I-am-a-panda
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9/4/2010 3:21:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
"Can a nation be free if it oppresses other nations? It cannot" - And that was Vladmir Lenin, not SEKIII or one of those idiots.
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Kinesis
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9/4/2010 3:40:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/3/2010 6:52:38 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 9/3/2010 6:27:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'd say this is half-true.

It's entirely true. Libertarians = no taxes = no government = no war.

I'm probably totally ignorant here, but I don't see this at all. Isn't the whole point that the government is replaced by private companies, which would themselves include military organisations that could wage war?
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/4/2010 6:17:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/3/2010 6:14:53 PM, Reasoning wrote:
are a contradiction.:

War is not necessarily synonymous with imperialism. There s such a notion as a Just War. Peace, as I'm sure you know, is reciprocal.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Reasoning
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9/4/2010 6:32:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/4/2010 3:21:50 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
"Can a nation be free if it oppresses other nations? It cannot" - And that was Vladmir Lenin, not SEKIII or one of those idiots.

And he is also correct.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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9/4/2010 7:00:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/4/2010 3:40:29 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I'm probably totally ignorant here, but I don't see this at all. Isn't the whole point that the government is replaced by private companies, which would themselves include military organisations that could wage war?

No.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/4/2010 7:03:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/4/2010 7:00:26 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/4/2010 3:40:29 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I'm probably totally ignorant here, but I don't see this at all. Isn't the whole point that the government is replaced by private companies, which would themselves include military organisations that could wage war?

No.:

Are you advocating absolute pacifism?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Reasoning
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9/4/2010 7:11:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/4/2010 7:03:47 AM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 9/4/2010 7:00:26 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/4/2010 3:40:29 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I'm probably totally ignorant here, but I don't see this at all. Isn't the whole point that the government is replaced by private companies, which would themselves include military organisations that could wage war?

No.:

Are you advocating absolute pacifism?

No.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
innomen
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9/4/2010 8:51:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
There would need to be some measures put in place to protect existing capital, but what about when markets have opportunity for expansion and military might could serve those business concerns. A mercenary force would be consistent with a libertarian society.
Ragnar_Rahl
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9/4/2010 11:06:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/4/2010 3:21:50 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
"Can a nation be free if it oppresses other nations? It cannot" - And that was Vladmir Lenin, not SEKIII or one of those idiots.

A nation cannot be free if it FAILS to oppress other nations that attempt to oppress it.

Though Vladimir Lenin's motive was not freedom, he made sure to get busy oppressing nations and other such things that did not attempt to oppress it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
LaissezFaire
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9/4/2010 11:13:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/4/2010 8:51:55 AM, innomen wrote:
There would need to be some measures put in place to protect existing capital, but what about when markets have opportunity for expansion and military might could serve those business concerns. A mercenary force would be consistent with a libertarian society.

That would not be consistent with a libertarian society. Look at other times this has happened. (U.S. and Latin America, for example) The key feature all of these military interventions had in common is that they were done by governments. Military interventions are extremely expensive, and it would not be profitable for a business to use them to expand markets. The only way it does become profitable is when these corporations can use taxpayers' money to further their foreign interests.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
juvanya
Posts: 613
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9/4/2010 11:13:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/3/2010 6:52:38 PM, theLwerd wrote:
At 9/3/2010 6:27:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'd say this is half-true.

It's entirely true. Libertarians = no taxes = no government = no war.
I would argue that libertarians are low taxes = minimal government = clear, defensive war. A step above minarchist (how that works Im not sure). A libertarian government would enforce borders, property rights, and mediate/arbitrate disputes. Possibly a few other things.
Ragnar_Rahl
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9/4/2010 11:21:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
A libertarian government would enforce borders
Not except maybe in the sense of jurisdiction. Certainly wouldn't bar immigration.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Kinesis
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9/4/2010 11:23:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/4/2010 7:00:26 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/4/2010 3:40:29 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I'm probably totally ignorant here, but I don't see this at all. Isn't the whole point that the government is replaced by private companies, which would themselves include military organisations that could wage war?

No.

Helpful. :D
Reasoning
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9/4/2010 11:59:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/4/2010 11:23:10 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 9/4/2010 7:00:26 AM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/4/2010 3:40:29 AM, Kinesis wrote:
I'm probably totally ignorant here, but I don't see this at all. Isn't the whole point that the government is replaced by private companies, which would themselves include military organisations that could wage war?

No.

Helpful. :D

Some vulgar libertarians seem to make their libertarian utopia out to be very similar to the modern world except with gigantic private corporations doing everything the government now does.

A deeper understanding of what it means to be libertarian reveals a very different vision of the future society.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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9/4/2010 12:07:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Now, I may have missed any answers to this question in the rabble that is most of this thread, but what is the "real" libertarian response to acts of aggression against them, or if indeed they have to take a pre-emptive action in order to prevent an act of aggression they know will occur? We're talking with full certainly, as well.