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Indian Sisters Ordered to Be Raped

YYW
Posts: 36,233
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8/28/2015 6:23:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
http://time.com...

Here's the short version of this catastrophically disgraceful happening:

They are being punished by the unelected council because their brother eloped with a married woman from a higher caste

A petition to save two sisters in India from being raped and publicly humiliated for their brother"s actions, a punishment handed down by an unofficial village council, has gathered considerable support for its demand that authorities intervene and stop the "disgusting ruling" from being enforced.

The petition by human-rights organization Amnesty International has garnered over 16,000 signatures thus far, and calls for law enforcement to stop the council-sanctioned rape of 23-year-old Meenakshi Kumari and her 15-year-old sister in Baghpat village in the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh.

The unelected council of elders ordered that Kumari and her sister " both members of the low Dalit caste " be raped and paraded naked with blackened faces, after their brother eloped with a married woman of a higher caste. He and the woman, who belongs to the dominant Jat caste, were in love and eloped after she was forced to marry someone from her own caste, according to reports.

Kumari also approached India"s Supreme Court herself last week, saying that police have been harassing her and her family instead of protecting them.

In a plea to the court Kumari said she and her family "cannot return back to her village and have been rendered homeless."

The court has asked for a response from the Uttar Pradesh government.

"Nothing could justify this abhorrent punishment," the Amnesty petition reads. "It"s not fair. It"s not right. And it"s against the law. Demand that the local authorities intervene immediately."

Village councils in northern India, known as khap panchayats, are generally comprised of senior male members of the community"s high castes. Although the councils have been declared illegal by the courts, their edicts are still observed in many parts of rural India.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/28/2015 6:37:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't even see how this is a logical punishment. Who is supposed to rape them?

I hope this never gets implemented.
My work here is, finally, done.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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8/28/2015 6:53:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Its just a god-awful place. As an Indian says to Elaine about a trip to India. "Don't go there! They still have the plague!"
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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8/28/2015 7:15:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 6:37:23 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I don't even see how this is a logical punishment. Who is supposed to rape them?

I hope this never gets implemented.

I hope so as well... and it's startling to see this kind of "punishment" even suggested.

India has to take a hard look in the mirror and ask "Is this really what we want to be known by?"
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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8/28/2015 7:19:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
That is repulsive. Time to go sign the petition...
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TBR
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8/28/2015 7:27:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 7:23:10 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
This isn't war on women because contraceptives are not involved.

What? Are you really so entrenched in conservative culture that this is what flashes in your mind to say?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/28/2015 7:27:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 7:15:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/28/2015 6:37:23 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I don't even see how this is a logical punishment. Who is supposed to rape them?

I hope this never gets implemented.

I hope so as well... and it's startling to see this kind of "punishment" even suggested.
I can sort of understand it, but not really. It's not really an eye for an eye, as the eloped couple weren't raped, nor is it any sort of compensatory punishment to the affected family (assuming there was a dowry of some sort).
The sad thing is, is this type of punishment was probably commonplace, or, at least not unheard of a few decades ago.

India has to take a hard look in the mirror and ask "Is this really what we want to be known by?"

I've heard someone once say that rural parts of America are about 20-40 years behind in their societal views. They lag, which makes sense when you think about it. I wonder if this is true everywhere.

The horror stories you hear of Muslim treating women are often either radicals in cities (often immigrated from elsewhere) or in rural areas. This, too, is a rural area.
In this light, It is kind of interesting (and disturbing) to look at the past and how things were done.

I am sure you are more worldly than I; is this mentality prevalent in India?
My work here is, finally, done.
YYW
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8/28/2015 7:30:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 7:27:55 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/28/2015 7:15:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/28/2015 6:37:23 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I don't even see how this is a logical punishment. Who is supposed to rape them?

I hope this never gets implemented.

I hope so as well... and it's startling to see this kind of "punishment" even suggested.
I can sort of understand it, but not really. It's not really an eye for an eye, as the eloped couple weren't raped, nor is it any sort of compensatory punishment to the affected family (assuming there was a dowry of some sort).
The sad thing is, is this type of punishment was probably commonplace, or, at least not unheard of a few decades ago.

India has to take a hard look in the mirror and ask "Is this really what we want to be known by?"

I've heard someone once say that rural parts of America are about 20-40 years behind in their societal views. They lag, which makes sense when you think about it. I wonder if this is true everywhere.

Yes. America has its own problems, but even the most backward redneck white trash hick wouldn't regard rape as an acceptable form of punishment. We're just more civilized than that, even our lowest members.

The horror stories you hear of Muslim treating women are often either radicals in cities (often immigrated from elsewhere) or in rural areas. This, too, is a rural area.
In this light, It is kind of interesting (and disturbing) to look at the past and how things were done.

The horrors that people have committed in the name of Islam are vast.

I am sure you are more worldly than I; is this mentality prevalent in India?

I've never been to India. I'd defer to someone who has been to Indian villages, but I know people who have done humanitarian work in rural India. Their system of "justice" (if you could call it that) is anything but.
Greyparrot
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8/28/2015 7:30:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 7:27:20 PM, TBR wrote:
At 8/28/2015 7:23:10 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
This isn't war on women because contraceptives are not involved.

What? Are you really so entrenched in conservative culture that this is what flashes in your mind to say?

Obviously.
TBR
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8/28/2015 7:39:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I grew-up with two Indian girls. Their parents were both MDs. A boy, his father too was an MD. The girls went back often enough, and the boy at-least once. What was most interesting were the observations about the workings of the caste system. It is not just some... its very hard to get a feel as an outsider how hard-wired this is. These girls were very confused when first encountering their place in the system.

Have I said how awful a place it is? It is.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/28/2015 7:41:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 7:30:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/28/2015 7:27:55 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/28/2015 7:15:16 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/28/2015 6:37:23 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I don't even see how this is a logical punishment. Who is supposed to rape them?

I hope this never gets implemented.

I hope so as well... and it's startling to see this kind of "punishment" even suggested.
I can sort of understand it, but not really. It's not really an eye for an eye, as the eloped couple weren't raped, nor is it any sort of compensatory punishment to the affected family (assuming there was a dowry of some sort).
The sad thing is, is this type of punishment was probably commonplace, or, at least not unheard of a few decades ago.

India has to take a hard look in the mirror and ask "Is this really what we want to be known by?"

I've heard someone once say that rural parts of America are about 20-40 years behind in their societal views. They lag, which makes sense when you think about it. I wonder if this is true everywhere.

Yes. America has its own problems, but even the most backward redneck white trash hick wouldn't regard rape as an acceptable form of punishment. We're just more civilized than that, even our lowest members.

Well, biker gangs using women as currency isn't that much more civilized. But, we've also been this civilized for a while, so our lower rung is still higher than their lower rung. Is India even a first world country? Has it been considered that for long?

The horror stories you hear of Muslim treating women are often either radicals in cities (often immigrated from elsewhere) or in rural areas. This, too, is a rural area.
In this light, It is kind of interesting (and disturbing) to look at the past and how things were done.

The horrors that people have committed in the name of Islam are vast.

I am sure you are more worldly than I; is this mentality prevalent in India?

I've never been to India. I'd defer to someone who has been to Indian villages, but I know people who have done humanitarian work in rural India. Their system of "justice" (if you could call it that) is anything but.

I was referring to "India" as in India proper. No one cares about the rural areas.
When we talk about America, people refer to the cities.
It seems India proper is opposed to this type of rule (the council) period, so they should have no reason not to interfere.

I guess my point is, I don't think rural folks care much about what others think of them, as they are too preoccupied with trying to get by, if that makes sense. If you are working to the bone to provide food for the family, you don't generally care about diplomatic relations.
My work here is, finally, done.
YYW
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8/28/2015 7:53:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 7:39:11 PM, TBR wrote:
I grew-up with two Indian girls. Their parents were both MDs. A boy, his father too was an MD. The girls went back often enough, and the boy at-least once. What was most interesting were the observations about the workings of the caste system. It is not just some... its very hard to get a feel as an outsider how hard-wired this is. These girls were very confused when first encountering their place in the system.

Have I said how awful a place it is? It is.

The caste system is monumentally fvcked, yeah...
PetersSmith
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8/28/2015 7:57:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think India needs some good o'l fashion American democracy...
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

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Romanii
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8/28/2015 8:16:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 7:57:14 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
I think India needs some good o'l fashion American democracy...

Yeah, that will solve everything!!!11!11!

.... >_>
PetersSmith
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8/28/2015 8:17:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 8:16:48 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 8/28/2015 7:57:14 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
I think India needs some good o'l fashion American democracy...

Yeah, that will solve everything!!!11!11!

.... >_>

It's like the one place we didn't try.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

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Romanii
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8/28/2015 8:34:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 8:17:22 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 8/28/2015 8:16:48 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 8/28/2015 7:57:14 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
I think India needs some good o'l fashion American democracy...

Yeah, that will solve everything!!!11!11!

.... >_>

It's like the one place we didn't try.

Implementing "American democracy" doesn't do anything to fix the underlying social maladies which are the source of India's problems. Especially given the country's incredibly weak law enforcement and predisposition towards corruption.
PetersSmith
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8/28/2015 8:35:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 8:34:13 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 8/28/2015 8:17:22 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 8/28/2015 8:16:48 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 8/28/2015 7:57:14 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
I think India needs some good o'l fashion American democracy...

Yeah, that will solve everything!!!11!11!

.... >_>

It's like the one place we didn't try.

Implementing "American democracy" doesn't do anything to fix the underlying social maladies which are the source of India's problems. Especially given the country's incredibly weak law enforcement and predisposition towards corruption.

And who has a more brutal law enforcement than America (besides Russia)?
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
PetersSmith
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8/28/2015 9:32:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 9:31:55 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 8/28/2015 7:57:14 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
I think India needs some good o'l fashion American democracy...

http://memecrunch.com...

http://i.imgur.com...
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
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Skepsikyma
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8/28/2015 10:04:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 9:34:52 PM, Lee308 wrote:
Wonderful world of ISLAM, right?

Lol, the caste system is a Hindu social institution, and the province is almost 80% Hindu.

Foot, meet mouth.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
jimtimmy8
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8/29/2015 12:00:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
And yet the feminists and the media obsessively look for the great white defendant. Turns out white men, to the great disappointment of the media and feminists, behave pretty well. Indian men, on the other hand... oh wait, that would be racist to discuss.
TBR
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8/29/2015 12:37:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 12:00:03 AM, jimtimmy8 wrote:
And yet the feminists and the media obsessively look for the great white defendant. Turns out white men, to the great disappointment of the media and feminists, behave pretty well. Indian men, on the other hand... oh wait, that would be racist to discuss.

So, being not as bad as people that use rape as a punishment for girls unconnected to a non-crime is where the bar is at now?
YYW
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8/29/2015 12:41:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 12:00:03 AM, jimtimmy8 wrote:
And yet the feminists and the media obsessively look for the great white defendant. Turns out white men, to the great disappointment of the media and feminists, behave pretty well. Indian men, on the other hand... oh wait, that would be racist to discuss.

You should really leave DDO.
Greyparrot
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8/29/2015 12:41:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 12:37:30 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/29/2015 12:00:03 AM, jimtimmy8 wrote:
And yet the feminists and the media obsessively look for the great white defendant. Turns out white men, to the great disappointment of the media and feminists, behave pretty well. Indian men, on the other hand... oh wait, that would be racist to discuss.

So, being not as bad as people that use rape as a punishment for girls unconnected to a non-crime is where the bar is at now?

No the bar is, was , and always will be set at expensive contraception, and restrictive abortion laws.
YYW
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8/29/2015 12:42:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/28/2015 9:34:52 PM, Lee308 wrote:
Wonderful world of ISLAM, right?

There are plenty of reasons to hate on many, many (although not all) people who call themselves Muslims. These people are not Muslims. They are hindu, and there are plenty of reasons to hate on them too.
TBR
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8/29/2015 1:30:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 12:41:22 AM, YYW wrote:
At 8/29/2015 12:00:03 AM, jimtimmy8 wrote:
And yet the feminists and the media obsessively look for the great white defendant. Turns out white men, to the great disappointment of the media and feminists, behave pretty well. Indian men, on the other hand... oh wait, that would be racist to discuss.

You should really leave DDO.

Us white guys are great! I made it through the ENTIRE day without raping teen girls - you know - to punish them. I deserve some credit with those noisy skirts. Why can't the media cover the GOOD stories about us white guys. I had plenty of opportunities, but I'm not as bad those guys.

Yeah, it takes some special brand of a$$hole to turn this thread into feminists bashing.
YYW
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8/29/2015 1:36:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/29/2015 1:30:51 AM, TBR wrote:
At 8/29/2015 12:41:22 AM, YYW wrote:
At 8/29/2015 12:00:03 AM, jimtimmy8 wrote:
And yet the feminists and the media obsessively look for the great white defendant. Turns out white men, to the great disappointment of the media and feminists, behave pretty well. Indian men, on the other hand... oh wait, that would be racist to discuss.

You should really leave DDO.


Us white guys are great! I made it through the ENTIRE day without raping teen girls - you know - to punish them. I deserve some credit with those noisy skirts. Why can't the media cover the GOOD stories about us white guys. I had plenty of opportunities, but I'm not as bad those guys.

Yeah, it takes some special brand of a$$hole to turn this thread into feminists bashing.

lol

JimmyTimmy is really just a source of contempt, though....