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What's with the hate on Objectivism?

The_Running_Mate
Posts: 40
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9/4/2015 2:51:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 10:55:01 PM, smelisox wrote:
I think it's a step up from our shithole systems in the West.

How did you get "shithole" past the censoring software? LOL. Good job.

As far as obejectivism being bad-mouthed by some. Well, sure, just like a Free Market Economy or unbridled Capitalism are derided by some, so is Objectivism. The most common demographic that badmouths it are the Liberals. the Lefty's. And of course to any Socialist or Communist, Objectivism is tantamount to Blasphemy!

The have-nots are always going to rail against the haves. Even if the Haves get what they HAVE from hard work and sheer brilliance. And look what happens! Perhaps you have read the novel, "Atlas Shugged" by Ayn Rand, who was one of the first and most popular Objectivists ever? She may have even founded that term, I am not sure.
But, regardless, remember how that book ended? What happened to the World when the "haves" and the captains of Inustry that the poor and lazy socialist-types derided?

"Wyatt's Torch was still burning." LOL.

This could happen in the real world someday.

Ayn Rand was not a very popular person. Objectivism is a pretty cold and stoic philosophy. So you gotta know its gonna leave a lot of people in the cold. Especially those who are all for redistributing the Wealth. Like our current POTUS!
Myself, I think much of it makes sense, though, politically I consider myself a Moderate. If you take a look through History I think you'll find that Nations and States who have embraced at least in-part an Objectivist ideology have faired far better than those who espoused a Socialist one--which is basically the polar opposite of Objectivism.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/4/2015 4:18:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't think most people know what objectivism is and hate it for that reason. Objectivism isn't every single thing Ayn Rand wrote or stated. It's just basically a synonym for materialism. It states things are real.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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9/4/2015 4:25:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 4:18:27 AM, Wylted wrote:
I don't think most people know what objectivism is and hate it for that reason. Objectivism isn't every single thing Ayn Rand wrote or stated. It's just basically a synonym for materialism. It states things are real.

I'm real!

... I think

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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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9/4/2015 4:26:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 10:55:01 PM, smelisox wrote:
I think it's a step up from our shithole systems in the West.

It's one of the circlejerk-ish rituals that the left engages in. Critiques of Rand can be made, but the ones most often made by left normally just reveal that the fact that the people leveling the criticism have never read her.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,226
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9/4/2015 5:09:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 4:18:27 AM, Wylted wrote:
I don't think most people know what objectivism is and hate it for that reason. Objectivism isn't every single thing Ayn Rand wrote or stated. It's just basically a synonym for materialism. It states things are real.

Rand specifically rejected materialism - she was much closer to dual-aspect monism (Spinozianism isn't incompatable with Objectivism, yay!) than reductionism (or idealism).

See: http://www.laissez-fairerepublic.com...
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DisKamper
Posts: 63
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9/4/2015 5:39:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think one reason many liberals have problems with it is that it doesn't really match the way many people think of the world. For many liberals, there has to be a justification for everything. They think: if I get a reward, there should have been something that I did to earn that reward.

The Objectivist mindset departs from this kind of thinking because it is not really concerned with what should happen. Instead, it focuses on what I should be able to do. Objectivists think: I should not be prevented from taking a free reward. They don't seem to care about whether things are inherently fair, rather they care about whether I am prevented from doing certain things.

I think Objectivism politically it provides clear guidelines of how to value policies. Not everyone who disagrees with Objectivism disagrees with all, or even most of its key points. Indeed, many of its central ideas are kind of hard to not accept. Ultimately, however, I think there are good reasons to not accept everything it prescribes.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/4/2015 6:27:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 5:09:20 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 9/4/2015 4:18:27 AM, Wylted wrote:
I don't think most people know what objectivism is and hate it for that reason. Objectivism isn't every single thing Ayn Rand wrote or stated. It's just basically a synonym for materialism. It states things are real.

Rand specifically rejected materialism - she was much closer to dual-aspect monism (Spinozianism isn't incompatable with Objectivism, yay!) than reductionism (or idealism).

See: http://www.laissez-fairerepublic.com...

I've seen Rand state (and I can't remember where), that we have an objective reality (hence the term objectivism), not a subjective one. She stated that reality is real and that our senses are a way to percieve reality.
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,226
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9/4/2015 6:32:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 6:27:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/4/2015 5:09:20 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 9/4/2015 4:18:27 AM, Wylted wrote:
I don't think most people know what objectivism is and hate it for that reason. Objectivism isn't every single thing Ayn Rand wrote or stated. It's just basically a synonym for materialism. It states things are real.

Rand specifically rejected materialism - she was much closer to dual-aspect monism (Spinozianism isn't incompatable with Objectivism, yay!) than reductionism (or idealism).

See: http://www.laissez-fairerepublic.com...

I've seen Rand state (and I can't remember where), that we have an objective reality (hence the term objectivism), not a subjective one. She stated that reality is real and that our senses are a way to percieve reality.

Yes, but that just means that she wasn't an idealist or rationalist, not that she was a materialist - she rejected the idea that you had to be one or the other.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

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~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/4/2015 6:37:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 6:32:02 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 9/4/2015 6:27:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/4/2015 5:09:20 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 9/4/2015 4:18:27 AM, Wylted wrote:
I don't think most people know what objectivism is and hate it for that reason. Objectivism isn't every single thing Ayn Rand wrote or stated. It's just basically a synonym for materialism. It states things are real.

Rand specifically rejected materialism - she was much closer to dual-aspect monism (Spinozianism isn't incompatable with Objectivism, yay!) than reductionism (or idealism).

See: http://www.laissez-fairerepublic.com...

I've seen Rand state (and I can't remember where), that we have an objective reality (hence the term objectivism), not a subjective one. She stated that reality is real and that our senses are a way to percieve reality.

Yes, but that just means that she wasn't an idealist or rationalist, not that she was a materialist - she rejected the idea that you had to be one or the other.

I'm not sure that makes sense, since she said that man has raised above other beasts for their ability to reason. Isn't reasoning to the best of your ability rational? If so, doesn't that make you a rationalist?
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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9/4/2015 6:53:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 10:55:01 PM, smelisox wrote:
I think it's a step up from our shithole systems in the West.

Mostly because it conflicts heavily with our emotional intuitions on morality.

Although that's not to say there aren't plenty of rational criticisms of it to be made as well.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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9/4/2015 7:22:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 10:55:01 PM, smelisox wrote:
I think it's a step up from our shithole systems in the West.

How, precisely is it a step up?
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ShabShoral
Posts: 3,226
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9/4/2015 6:37:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 6:37:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/4/2015 6:32:02 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 9/4/2015 6:27:39 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/4/2015 5:09:20 AM, ShabShoral wrote:
At 9/4/2015 4:18:27 AM, Wylted wrote:
I don't think most people know what objectivism is and hate it for that reason. Objectivism isn't every single thing Ayn Rand wrote or stated. It's just basically a synonym for materialism. It states things are real.

Rand specifically rejected materialism - she was much closer to dual-aspect monism (Spinozianism isn't incompatable with Objectivism, yay!) than reductionism (or idealism).

See: http://www.laissez-fairerepublic.com...

I've seen Rand state (and I can't remember where), that we have an objective reality (hence the term objectivism), not a subjective one. She stated that reality is real and that our senses are a way to percieve reality.

Yes, but that just means that she wasn't an idealist or rationalist, not that she was a materialist - she rejected the idea that you had to be one or the other.

I'm not sure that makes sense, since she said that man has raised above other beasts for their ability to reason. Isn't reasoning to the best of your ability rational? If so, doesn't that make you a rationalist?

Rationalists believe that knowledge can only come from a priori reason alone - they completely disregard the senses. Rand, however, claimed that the senses were the starting point of all knowledge.
"This site is trash as a debate site. It's club penguin for dysfunctional adults."

~ Skepsikyma <3

"Your idea of good writing is like Spinoza mixed with Heidegger."

~ Dylly Dylly Cat Cat

"You seem to aspire to be a cross between a Jewish hipster, an old school WASP aristocrat, and a political iconoclast"

~ Thett the Mighty

"fvck omg ur face"

~ Liz
Huntress
Posts: 60
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9/4/2015 11:20:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/3/2015 10:55:01 PM, smelisox wrote:
I think it's a step up from our shithole systems in the West.

People are by and large emotional rather than logical beings, and I can't honestly exclude myself from that. It's clearly the most rational atheistic philosophy, but I'm a Christian, so I do have some different priorities. I like the Sword of Truth series, inspired by Objectivist philosophy. I haven't read any of Rand's novels yet or Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology. I have a watched some of her interviews on youtube and she makes a lot of sense, but always comes off as a narcissist to me, honestly, and the information that came out about her personal life and extra-martial affair pretty much confirms that. You can't judge all of Objectivism by Rand's personal character though and I think some people do.