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Europe's migration crisis - what shall we do?

Philocat
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9/4/2015 12:38:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Recently, Europe has been engulfed in a migration crisis - caused by millions of Syrians, Afghans, Eritreans, Libyans, West Africans and other people who have started to come in their millions to try and get a better life in Europe.

Many are fleeing from war, poverty or despotic regimes, but Europe is already the most densely populated continent in the world. The EU's idealistic open-border policy means that member-states have little control or ability to manage the tide of migrants coming in, let alone help them.

The problem isn't solved by letting in more migrants, housing them and giving them benefits, since this only provides a greater incentive for more migrants to come over. But if we don't help them, then many will turn to crime, become homeless and potentially even starve to death.

Many are refugees seeking asylum, and according to international regulations, should only be able to seek asylum in the first safe country they come to. The problem with this is that it puts disproportionate amounts of pressure on European countries in south-east Europe such as Turkey, Greece or Hungary. If we are supposed to be a European community, then surely other countries should share the burden?
But it's not that simple - some European countries offer a far higher standard of living and benefits to migrants (such as the UK or Sweden) whereas others such as France have stricter rules. So even if we do share the burden of migrants, there is nothing to stop the migrants then deciding to head to the countries that offer a higher standard of living; after all, the EU's open-border policy renders it futile to even attempt to make migrants remain in certain countries.

It's a very difficult dilemma that I cannot see one clear answer to.

So what do you think we should do about it?

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org...
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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9/4/2015 12:49:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Retract ALL support to American foreign policy. This crisis is the fault of America primarily, with some of their Western puppets like the UK sharing the blame as well. Southeastern Europe should accept very few immigrants, and let the others go to countries who are responsible for this (UK et al).

Additionally, once the situation in the migrants' countries becomes better, those who are not integrated (working, are educated/under education, etc.) should be sent back. If all they want is a stable and safe life, surely it's imaginable that their homelands could offer this in the future and not just havens like Germany?
slo1
Posts: 4,330
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9/4/2015 1:26:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 12:49:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
Retract ALL support to American foreign policy. This crisis is the fault of America primarily, with some of their Western puppets like the UK sharing the blame as well. Southeastern Europe should accept very few immigrants, and let the others go to countries who are responsible for this (UK et al).

Additionally, once the situation in the migrants' countries becomes better, those who are not integrated (working, are educated/under education, etc.) should be sent back. If all they want is a stable and safe life, surely it's imaginable that their homelands could offer this in the future and not just havens like Germany?

So predictable and ignorant. Yawn........
Mirza
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9/4/2015 1:29:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 1:26:05 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 9/4/2015 12:49:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
Retract ALL support to American foreign policy. This crisis is the fault of America primarily, with some of their Western puppets like the UK sharing the blame as well. Southeastern Europe should accept very few immigrants, and let the others go to countries who are responsible for this (UK et al).

Additionally, once the situation in the migrants' countries becomes better, those who are not integrated (working, are educated/under education, etc.) should be sent back. If all they want is a stable and safe life, surely it's imaginable that their homelands could offer this in the future and not just havens like Germany?

So predictable and ignorant. Yawn........
Sure, sure. Tell me why. Go on. :)
slo1
Posts: 4,330
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9/4/2015 1:43:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 12:38:02 PM, Philocat wrote:
Recently, Europe has been engulfed in a migration crisis - caused by millions of Syrians, Afghans, Eritreans, Libyans, West Africans and other people who have started to come in their millions to try and get a better life in Europe.

Many are fleeing from war, poverty or despotic regimes, but Europe is already the most densely populated continent in the world. The EU's idealistic open-border policy means that member-states have little control or ability to manage the tide of migrants coming in, let alone help them.

The problem isn't solved by letting in more migrants, housing them and giving them benefits, since this only provides a greater incentive for more migrants to come over. But if we don't help them, then many will turn to crime, become homeless and potentially even starve to death.

Many are refugees seeking asylum, and according to international regulations, should only be able to seek asylum in the first safe country they come to. The problem with this is that it puts disproportionate amounts of pressure on European countries in south-east Europe such as Turkey, Greece or Hungary. If we are supposed to be a European community, then surely other countries should share the burden?
But it's not that simple - some European countries offer a far higher standard of living and benefits to migrants (such as the UK or Sweden) whereas others such as France have stricter rules. So even if we do share the burden of migrants, there is nothing to stop the migrants then deciding to head to the countries that offer a higher standard of living; after all, the EU's open-border policy renders it futile to even attempt to make migrants remain in certain countries.

It's a very difficult dilemma that I cannot see one clear answer to.

So what do you think we should do about it?

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org...

There is no clear answer. I believe one of the most important things that Europe can do is engaging the countries and their neighbors from where these immigrants are coming from.

They need to throw their weight around and use it to start pushing countries to reform and create peaceful societies in the long run. That doesn't help in the mid term though.

They also need to be the voice of reason. Here in the States the war hawk conservatives want to basically box the US in a corner so that war is the only option to dealing with Iran. That of course would only create more instability and refugee if we were to depose Iranian leadership via force.

In the short term, it would behoove Europe to pony up funding to Syria's neighbors to enable them to accept more refugees. They are brimming over thus why it is spilling into Europe. Find alternative temporary homes for these destitute people and be vocal about it.

These are largely moderates trying to escape hell. We (the world) need to be helping care for them so they can eventually go back home and have an influence on their country. Last thing we need is this segment of the population to become indifferent or even radicalized.

Lastly, Europe should be engaging other countries to accept refugees including the US.
slo1
Posts: 4,330
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9/4/2015 2:06:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 1:29:12 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/4/2015 1:26:05 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 9/4/2015 12:49:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
Retract ALL support to American foreign policy. This crisis is the fault of America primarily, with some of their Western puppets like the UK sharing the blame as well. Southeastern Europe should accept very few immigrants, and let the others go to countries who are responsible for this (UK et al).

Additionally, once the situation in the migrants' countries becomes better, those who are not integrated (working, are educated/under education, etc.) should be sent back. If all they want is a stable and safe life, surely it's imaginable that their homelands could offer this in the future and not just havens like Germany?

So predictable and ignorant. Yawn........
Sure, sure. Tell me why. Go on. :)

Why? What is the point? If I make a comment such to the fact that the US suspended arms sales to Egypt in 2013 when it was being run by the Muslim Brotherhood and France stepped in and started increasing weapon at the time sales including ships in the Egyptian Navy, you would just make some excuse for France and completely discount to their influence to instability to the region, while making the US the devil.

It is just old to have a one sided conversation which is predictable. What is the point?

The US is idots with its Middle Eastern policy and so is all of Europe, but you can't see that.
imabench
Posts: 21,216
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9/4/2015 2:29:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 12:49:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
Retract ALL support to American foreign policy. This crisis is the fault of America primarily, with some of their Western puppets like the UK sharing the blame as well. Southeastern Europe should accept very few immigrants, and let the others go to countries who are responsible for this (UK et al).

Additionally, once the situation in the migrants' countries becomes better, those who are not integrated (working, are educated/under education, etc.) should be sent back. If all they want is a stable and safe life, surely it's imaginable that their homelands could offer this in the future and not just havens like Germany?

^ Ignore the troll
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Philocat
Posts: 728
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9/4/2015 3:46:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 1:43:23 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 9/4/2015 12:38:02 PM, Philocat wrote:
Recently, Europe has been engulfed in a migration crisis - caused by millions of Syrians, Afghans, Eritreans, Libyans, West Africans and other people who have started to come in their millions to try and get a better life in Europe.

Many are fleeing from war, poverty or despotic regimes, but Europe is already the most densely populated continent in the world. The EU's idealistic open-border policy means that member-states have little control or ability to manage the tide of migrants coming in, let alone help them.

The problem isn't solved by letting in more migrants, housing them and giving them benefits, since this only provides a greater incentive for more migrants to come over. But if we don't help them, then many will turn to crime, become homeless and potentially even starve to death.

Many are refugees seeking asylum, and according to international regulations, should only be able to seek asylum in the first safe country they come to. The problem with this is that it puts disproportionate amounts of pressure on European countries in south-east Europe such as Turkey, Greece or Hungary. If we are supposed to be a European community, then surely other countries should share the burden?
But it's not that simple - some European countries offer a far higher standard of living and benefits to migrants (such as the UK or Sweden) whereas others such as France have stricter rules. So even if we do share the burden of migrants, there is nothing to stop the migrants then deciding to head to the countries that offer a higher standard of living; after all, the EU's open-border policy renders it futile to even attempt to make migrants remain in certain countries.

It's a very difficult dilemma that I cannot see one clear answer to.

So what do you think we should do about it?

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org...

There is no clear answer. I believe one of the most important things that Europe can do is engaging the countries and their neighbors from where these immigrants are coming from.

They need to throw their weight around and use it to start pushing countries to reform and create peaceful societies in the long run. That doesn't help in the mid term though.

They also need to be the voice of reason. Here in the States the war hawk conservatives want to basically box the US in a corner so that war is the only option to dealing with Iran. That of course would only create more instability and refugee if we were to depose Iranian leadership via force.

In the short term, it would behoove Europe to pony up funding to Syria's neighbors to enable them to accept more refugees. They are brimming over thus why it is spilling into Europe. Find alternative temporary homes for these destitute people and be vocal about it.

What about the Gulf countries such as Saudi Arabia, UAE or Qatar? They are rich arab countries relatively close to Syria. What do you think about pressuring these countries to take refugees?

These are largely moderates trying to escape hell. We (the world) need to be helping care for them so they can eventually go back home and have an influence on their country. Last thing we need is this segment of the population to become indifferent or even radicalized.

Lastly, Europe should be engaging other countries to accept refugees including the US.
Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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9/4/2015 4:32:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think what's *most* important is that the wider issue be addressed--the majority are fleeing not due of economic difficulty but because their countries have been engulfed by terrorism as a direct result of Western interference.

This is essentially what happens when you invade other (sovereign) countries and remove their governments. Literally all of the people from Syria are fleeing ISIS and other terrorist fractions-- groups that the Israel, U.S and the U.K directly helped to create. Nothing will improve until to the real catalyst is identified with; which again, is continued support of terror.

Additionally one also has to look at the trafficking problem and the individuals that are financially benefiting from the refugees. The vast majority of those from the Middle East are coming in on traffikking boats and the main reason why so many refugees have drowned is because they purposely fill them with as many people as possible, no matter what the capacity. Often they'll force around 30-50 people into a small dinghy.
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slo1
Posts: 4,330
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9/4/2015 4:55:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 3:46:34 PM, Philocat wrote:
At 9/4/2015 1:43:23 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 9/4/2015 12:38:02 PM, Philocat wrote:
Recently, Europe has been engulfed in a migration crisis - caused by millions of Syrians, Afghans, Eritreans, Libyans, West Africans and other people who have started to come in their millions to try and get a better life in Europe.

Many are fleeing from war, poverty or despotic regimes, but Europe is already the most densely populated continent in the world. The EU's idealistic open-border policy means that member-states have little control or ability to manage the tide of migrants coming in, let alone help them.

The problem isn't solved by letting in more migrants, housing them and giving them benefits, since this only provides a greater incentive for more migrants to come over. But if we don't help them, then many will turn to crime, become homeless and potentially even starve to death.

Many are refugees seeking asylum, and according to international regulations, should only be able to seek asylum in the first safe country they come to. The problem with this is that it puts disproportionate amounts of pressure on European countries in south-east Europe such as Turkey, Greece or Hungary. If we are supposed to be a European community, then surely other countries should share the burden?
But it's not that simple - some European countries offer a far higher standard of living and benefits to migrants (such as the UK or Sweden) whereas others such as France have stricter rules. So even if we do share the burden of migrants, there is nothing to stop the migrants then deciding to head to the countries that offer a higher standard of living; after all, the EU's open-border policy renders it futile to even attempt to make migrants remain in certain countries.

It's a very difficult dilemma that I cannot see one clear answer to.

So what do you think we should do about it?

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org...

There is no clear answer. I believe one of the most important things that Europe can do is engaging the countries and their neighbors from where these immigrants are coming from.

They need to throw their weight around and use it to start pushing countries to reform and create peaceful societies in the long run. That doesn't help in the mid term though.

They also need to be the voice of reason. Here in the States the war hawk conservatives want to basically box the US in a corner so that war is the only option to dealing with Iran. That of course would only create more instability and refugee if we were to depose Iranian leadership via force.

In the short term, it would behoove Europe to pony up funding to Syria's neighbors to enable them to accept more refugees. They are brimming over thus why it is spilling into Europe. Find alternative temporary homes for these destitute people and be vocal about it.

What about the Gulf countries such as Saudi Arabia, UAE or Qatar? They are rich arab countries relatively close to Syria. What do you think about pressuring these countries to take refugees?

I think they should be pressured. All those countries buy billions of weapons from the US and Europe. They don't have much love for Syria as it has ties to Iran and Shia side of Islam, but for f's sake they should be stepping up in their region. They are too dependent upon the US and Europe while they pump out the real crazy radicals that have played a large role in the destabilization of the region for a couple decades now.

These are largely moderates trying to escape hell. We (the world) need to be helping care for them so they can eventually go back home and have an influence on their country. Last thing we need is this segment of the population to become indifferent or even radicalized.

Lastly, Europe should be engaging other countries to accept refugees including the US.
slo1
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9/4/2015 4:57:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 2:24:52 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Obviously we need a Euro-Trump to end the migration.

Trumps approach of use of force to end illegal immigration sounds very similar to the approach on the War on Drugs, which we know is like a limp dck, completely ineffective.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,268
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9/4/2015 4:59:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 4:57:16 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 9/4/2015 2:24:52 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Obviously we need a Euro-Trump to end the migration.

Trumps approach of use of force to end illegal immigration sounds very similar to the approach on the War on Drugs, which we know is like a limp dck, completely ineffective.

It would be different in a euro-sense, because refugees will just go to the non-trump options. You don't see Russia with this problem do you?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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9/4/2015 6:01:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 2:06:35 PM, slo1 wrote:
Why? What is the point? If I make a comment such to the fact that the US suspended arms sales to Egypt in 2013 when it was being run by the Muslim Brotherhood and France stepped in and started increasing weapon at the time sales including ships in the Egyptian Navy, you would just make some excuse for France and completely discount to their influence to instability to the region, while making the US the devil.

It is just old to have a one sided conversation which is predictable. What is the point?

The US is idots with its Middle Eastern policy and so is all of Europe, but you can't see that.
I never said other Western countries didn't contribute. Are you this f*cking stupid, or just a good actor? I said America is the largest contributor - and it is. It has destabilized the Middle East more than has any other Western country. It has helped bring down regimes that kept their societies stable, put forth sanctions on vulnerable areas, and supported rebels who are now the criminals.

Go f*ck yourself, dumbass. :)
slo1
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9/4/2015 9:09:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 6:01:58 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/4/2015 2:06:35 PM, slo1 wrote:
Why? What is the point? If I make a comment such to the fact that the US suspended arms sales to Egypt in 2013 when it was being run by the Muslim Brotherhood and France stepped in and started increasing weapon at the time sales including ships in the Egyptian Navy, you would just make some excuse for France and completely discount to their influence to instability to the region, while making the US the devil.

It is just old to have a one sided conversation which is predictable. What is the point?

The US is idots with its Middle Eastern policy and so is all of Europe, but you can't see that.
I never said other Western countries didn't contribute. Are you this f*cking stupid, or just a good actor? I said America is the largest contributor - and it is. It has destabilized the Middle East more than has any other Western country. It has helped bring down regimes that kept their societies stable, put forth sanctions on vulnerable areas, and supported rebels who are now the criminals.

Go f*ck yourself, dumbass. :)

Like I said, "What is the point"? You are unreasonable, angry, and illogical.
Mirza
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9/4/2015 10:34:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 9:09:57 PM, slo1 wrote:
Like I said, "What is the point"? You are unreasonable,
Why?

angry,
No, just irritated by your stupidity.

and illogical.
Why? :(
slo1
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9/5/2015 3:03:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 10:34:17 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/4/2015 9:09:57 PM, slo1 wrote:
Like I said, "What is the point"? You are unreasonable,
Why?

angry,
No, just irritated by your stupidity.

and illogical.
Why? :(

Like I said, "What is the point"? You are unreasonable, angry, and illogical.
Mirza
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9/6/2015 10:35:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/5/2015 3:03:10 AM, slo1 wrote:
Like I said, "What is the point"? You are unreasonable, angry, and illogical.
Keep your mouth shut, coward. You know fully well you can't put up to me, and so resort to these little excuses. From now on, never enter my threads, nor respond to me. You're useless and stupid.
Illegalcombatant
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9/6/2015 1:17:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/4/2015 12:38:02 PM, Philocat wrote:
Recently, Europe has been engulfed in a migration crisis - caused by millions of Syrians, Afghans, Eritreans, Libyans, West Africans and other people who have started to come in their millions to try and get a better life in Europe.

Many are fleeing from war, poverty or despotic regimes, but Europe is already the most densely populated continent in the world. The EU's idealistic open-border policy means that member-states have little control or ability to manage the tide of migrants coming in, let alone help them.

The problem isn't solved by letting in more migrants, housing them and giving them benefits, since this only provides a greater incentive for more migrants to come over. But if we don't help them, then many will turn to crime, become homeless and potentially even starve to death.

Many are refugees seeking asylum, and according to international regulations, should only be able to seek asylum in the first safe country they come to. The problem with this is that it puts disproportionate amounts of pressure on European countries in south-east Europe such as Turkey, Greece or Hungary. If we are supposed to be a European community, then surely other countries should share the burden?
But it's not that simple - some European countries offer a far higher standard of living and benefits to migrants (such as the UK or Sweden) whereas others such as France have stricter rules. So even if we do share the burden of migrants, there is nothing to stop the migrants then deciding to head to the countries that offer a higher standard of living; after all, the EU's open-border policy renders it futile to even attempt to make migrants remain in certain countries.

It's a very difficult dilemma that I cannot see one clear answer to.

So what do you think we should do about it?

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org...

I have no idea what the solution is, but I can guess how it will play out.

After time more and more immigrants will come in the various area's. As they are new and poor they will seek other like themselves to live with and will be restricted in what ever country they are in where they can live.

"Ghettos" will rise, they will be area's of higher crime.

Over time people will get sick of the immigrants/boat people/terrorists etc not to mention how my taxes pay their welfare and shouldn't our taxes go to pay helping our own ?................did I mention they might be terrorists ? and why do they speak funny ? learn English you f*ckers.

Why is unemployment on the rise ? why is crime ? why can't people afford to buy homes or property like in the past ? why can't we get good healthcare ? why the budget deficits...................immigrants, these damm smelly, lazy, terrorist immigrants that's why.

To protect them self from a backlash of hatred the various immigrant communities will become even more isolated, more prone to radicalization.

Eventually there will be overwhelming support to stop entry of further immigrants, as such the populace will support prison for those who turn up (detention centres).

After amassing people in detention centers and numbers in detention and with a sense of despair they will turn to violence. This violence will be met with violence, people will be killed, and the "terrorists" that occupy these detention centre will be blamed.

There is no happy ending here..............
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slo1
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9/6/2015 6:34:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/6/2015 10:35:41 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/5/2015 3:03:10 AM, slo1 wrote:
Like I said, "What is the point"? You are unreasonable, angry, and illogical.
Keep your mouth shut, coward. You know fully well you can't put up to me, and so resort to these little excuses. From now on, never enter my threads, nor respond to me. You're useless and stupid.

angry? lol can't handle the truth can you.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/8/2015 5:45:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am generally opposed to the EU. I will be voting to leave it in the referendum scheduled to . take place in the UK. I think it leads to numerous problems. Closer ties between countries work to an extent but currency sharing and unrestricted movement foes not when the countries in question have different languages, ethnicities, religions cultures and different economic situations. It's fair to say the euro and the schengen area have been disastrous for Europe. Luckily the UK Is not in either of the failed schemes. My recommendations for dealing with the problem are
1. End the schengen agreement and bring back properly policed borders with proper check points.
2. Increase the security of the European border by increasing border guards and construct more walls fences etc.
3. Deport all illegal immigrants who have or will in future sneak into Europe. This will encourage migrants not to sneak in and instead go through legal means of becoming a European citizen.
4. Avoid provoking countries in the middle east to avoid creating further wars, humanitarian problems and mass migrations.
5. Do not offer anybody asylum. I know this seems cruel, but this is the only way to deter people from coming. Over time people will realize they can't sneak in. There are lots of people suffering in the countries they are leaving anyway. There are also European citizens in need of government money, help and accommodation so I would look after these people first. If you do what Germany did and allow unlimited Syrian migration you will get millions more people coming, this will cripple the weak economies of Europe yet further.
Put your own citizens first.