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Is the USA more right wing than the UK?

beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?
Huntress
Posts: 60
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9/7/2015 11:08:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

I have a tendency to view all of Europe as socialist, so definitely.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/7/2015 11:14:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 11:08:02 PM, Huntress wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

I have a tendency to view all of Europe as socialist, so definitely.

Well, that would be wrong. Switzerland, Germany, Poland, Romania... Spain, Austria, Italy. Lets see. Where else is NOT socialists. RIGHT, the UK!
Huntress
Posts: 60
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9/7/2015 11:18:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 11:14:06 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/7/2015 11:08:02 PM, Huntress wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

I have a tendency to view all of Europe as socialist, so definitely.

Well, that would be wrong. Switzerland, Germany, Poland, Romania... Spain, Austria, Italy. Lets see. Where else is NOT socialists. RIGHT, the UK!

Are you going out of you way to make me not like you or does it just happen naturally?

Clearly by stating "tendency to view" I know they're not, but they are further left than the US. I think same-sex marriage is the gateway to socialism, so we're not far behind on your Leftist agenda for global thought control, TBR.
TBR
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9/7/2015 11:20:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well, that would be wrong. Switzerland, Germany, Poland, Romania... Spain, Austria, Italy. Lets see. Where else is NOT socialists. RIGHT, the UK!

Are you going out of you way to make me not like you or does it just happen naturally?

Clearly by stating "tendency to view" I know they're not, but they are further left than the US. I think same-sex marriage is the gateway to socialism, so we're not far behind on your Leftist agenda for global thought control, TBR.

Its the nature of the site. Say silly things, expect someone to call you on it.

Just how is same-sex marriage a gateway to socialism? Seriously curious how you connect those dots.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,859
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9/7/2015 11:28:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 11:18:27 PM, Huntress wrote:
At 9/7/2015 11:14:06 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/7/2015 11:08:02 PM, Huntress wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

I have a tendency to view all of Europe as socialist, so definitely.

Well, that would be wrong. Switzerland, Germany, Poland, Romania... Spain, Austria, Italy. Lets see. Where else is NOT socialists. RIGHT, the UK!

Are you going out of you way to make me not like you or does it just happen naturally?

Clearly by stating "tendency to view" I know they're not, but they are further left than the US. I think same-sex marriage is the gateway to socialism, so we're not far behind on your Leftist agenda for global thought control, TBR.

He's like an anti-conservative anti-theist, so that should explain things.
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Huntress
Posts: 60
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9/7/2015 11:42:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 11:28:34 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 9/7/2015 11:18:27 PM, Huntress wrote:
At 9/7/2015 11:14:06 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/7/2015 11:08:02 PM, Huntress wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

I have a tendency to view all of Europe as socialist, so definitely.

Well, that would be wrong. Switzerland, Germany, Poland, Romania... Spain, Austria, Italy. Lets see. Where else is NOT socialists. RIGHT, the UK!

Are you going out of you way to make me not like you or does it just happen naturally?

Clearly by stating "tendency to view" I know they're not, but they are further left than the US. I think same-sex marriage is the gateway to socialism, so we're not far behind on your Leftist agenda for global thought control, TBR.

He's like an anti-conservative anti-theist, so that should explain things.

On the contrary, I'm start to like you, PetersSmith. We probably disagree on just as much, but it's all in the delivery. You and I can see those differences and accept them, but he's one of those types (INFx probably) who think all their emotions are actually objective logic.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/7/2015 11:46:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
On the contrary, I'm start to like you, PetersSmith. We probably disagree on just as much, but it's all in the delivery. You and I can see those differences and accept them, but he's one of those types (INFx probably) who think all their emotions are actually objective logic.

INFx? Is that more Briggs Myers stuff?
Huntress
Posts: 60
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9/7/2015 11:50:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 11:46:16 PM, TBR wrote:
On the contrary, I'm start to like you, PetersSmith. We probably disagree on just as much, but it's all in the delivery. You and I can see those differences and accept them, but he's one of those types (INFx probably) who think all their emotions are actually objective logic.

INFx? Is that more Briggs Myers stuff?

Yes, sir. X is a placeholder, indicating someone is either INFP or INFJ. PetersSmith's profile mentions being an INTJ, so I knew she'd understand.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/7/2015 11:52:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yes, sir. X is a placeholder, indicating someone is either INFP or INFJ. PetersSmith's profile mentions being an INTJ, so I knew she'd understand.

I see...
58539672
Posts: 105
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9/7/2015 11:53:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

Generally speaking, the US inhabits far more of the right end of the spectrum than Europe. Most (but certainly not all) of European right leaning parties tend to be what we in the US call Center or Center-Right. By that same scale difference, our Democratic (leftist) party is probably a fairly centrist party by Europe's standards. This difference gives off two different views of Europe from the US perspective. Our left all but idolizes/worships you, and our right thinks you will destroy western civilization and turn everyone into a Marxist socialist state (after you spawn the anti-christ of course).
Huntress
Posts: 60
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9/8/2015 12:09:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 11:53:54 PM, 58539672 wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

Generally speaking, the US inhabits far more of the right end of the spectrum than Europe. Most (but certainly not all) of European right leaning parties tend to be what we in the US call Center or Center-Right. By that same scale difference, our Democratic (leftist) party is probably a fairly centrist party by Europe's standards. This difference gives off two different views of Europe from the US perspective. Our left all but idolizes/worships you, and our right thinks you will destroy western civilization and turn everyone into a Marxist socialist state (after you spawn the anti-christ of course).

Yes, and I just happen to be in the latter category. haha The Netherlands is like a libertarian utopia from what I've heard. And countries like Switzerland and Italy really don't fit that mold. The UK isn't that far left or it couldn't still have a party like UKIP. The Left would have run them out already if they could by accusing them of a bunch of isms.
AureusRex
Posts: 66
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9/8/2015 12:31:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

It would seem so. Mass surveillance, torture and assassination could only possibly be called left-wing in some kind of Stalinist sense, and yet Obama oversees all these things and he is still cleverly called a liberal. If Jeremy Corbyn loses the leadership election for the Labour party then socialism in the UK will almost certainly be dead for a while, though. I mean, Blairites can hardly be called left-wing.
AureusRex
Posts: 66
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9/8/2015 12:41:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/8/2015 12:09:02 AM, Huntress wrote:
At 9/7/2015 11:53:54 PM, 58539672 wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

Generally speaking, the US inhabits far more of the right end of the spectrum than Europe. Most (but certainly not all) of European right leaning parties tend to be what we in the US call Center or Center-Right. By that same scale difference, our Democratic (leftist) party is probably a fairly centrist party by Europe's standards. This difference gives off two different views of Europe from the US perspective. Our left all but idolizes/worships you, and our right thinks you will destroy western civilization and turn everyone into a Marxist socialist state (after you spawn the anti-christ of course).

Yes, and I just happen to be in the latter category. haha The Netherlands is like a libertarian utopia from what I've heard. And countries like Switzerland and Italy really don't fit that mold. The UK isn't that far left or it couldn't still have a party like UKIP. The Left would have run them out already if they could by accusing them of a bunch of isms.

Having just spent a weekend in Amsterdam I wouldn't really call it a libertarian utopia. It seems more like they are simply a kind and accepting people. Regarding the UK, as far as I can tell it's a fairly right-wing nation. People who would sensibly be called moderately left-wing have been fairly successfully branded as the 'hard left', another spectacular victory, but I suppose unlike the US moderately left-wing politicians actually exist in the UK. Also, let's not be hypocrites here, though I'm not sure you and I have the same understanding of conservatism, 'a bunch of isms' is a powerful weapon for both sides. Socialism, idealism, even, in what I think is some attempt to appeal to pro-Israel sentiments, anti-semitism, are 'isms' the right can use.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/8/2015 8:22:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 11:53:54 PM, 58539672 wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

Generally speaking, the US inhabits far more of the right end of the spectrum than Europe. Most (but certainly not all) of European right leaning parties tend to be what we in the US call Center or Center-Right. By that same scale difference, our Democratic (leftist) party is probably a fairly centrist party by Europe's standards. This difference gives off two different views of Europe from the US perspective. Our left all but idolizes/worships you, and our right thinks you will destroy western civilization and turn everyone into a Marxist socialist state (after you spawn the anti-christ of course).

Yes those points are generally right. I would class myself as being on the right of the conservative party but on the left wing of the republican party. I would personally view the tea party movement as quite extreme right. Their is a party in the UK called ukip that occupies the same sort of political ground as the republican party in the us. I voted for them in the European elections and seriously considered it for the general election in May but didn't as I knew they had no chance of winning and I wanted to ensure Labour didn't get in.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/8/2015 11:32:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/8/2015 12:09:02 AM, Huntress wrote:
At 9/7/2015 11:53:54 PM, 58539672 wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

Generally speaking, the US inhabits far more of the right end of the spectrum than Europe. Most (but certainly not all) of European right leaning parties tend to be what we in the US call Center or Center-Right. By that same scale difference, our Democratic (leftist) party is probably a fairly centrist party by Europe's standards. This difference gives off two different views of Europe from the US perspective. Our left all but idolizes/worships you, and our right thinks you will destroy western civilization and turn everyone into a Marxist socialist state (after you spawn the anti-christ of course).

Yes, and I just happen to be in the latter category. haha The Netherlands is like a libertarian utopia from what I've heard. And countries like Switzerland and Italy really don't fit that mold. The UK isn't that far left or it couldn't still have a party like UKIP. The Left would have run them out already if they could by accusing them of a bunch of isms.

Yes the left wing labour party in the UK is quite extreme left I would say. The party generally denies austerity and suggests increasing public spending despite the economic crisis and 1. 6 Trillion pound national debt. It suggests raising the minimum wage to 10 pounds an hour! The leadership contest that will conclude in a few days time will likely see its supporters choose Jeremy Corbyn as their next leader. He is not that far from being a communist and is certainly an extreme socialist. His policies include nationalising the railways, energy companies and the postal service. He suggests raising public spending, increasing corporate taxes, introducing a new land tax, increasing inheritance tax, introducing a tax on high value properties and raising the minimum wage to a point where employers would go out of business as cleaners would be on "10 an hour. He also has links to Hamas and Hezbollah and denies Israel has a right to exist. He is in my opinion a complete clown. He is a poor appointment for the leaders position as he will alienate most centrist voters with his far left policy and likely lose the general election. That's what I hope anyway! Yes ukip gets a lot of stick in the press and from Labour for being sexist, fascist, racist etc but has managed to establish itself as the 3rd party in the UK after the liberal democrats support collapsed.
beng100
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9/8/2015 11:49:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/8/2015 12:31:37 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

It would seem so. Mass surveillance, torture and assassination could only possibly be called left-wing in some kind of Stalinist sense, and yet Obama oversees all these things and he is still cleverly called a liberal. If Jeremy Corbyn loses the leadership election for the Labour party then socialism in the UK will almost certainly be dead for a while, though. I mean, Blairites can hardly be called left-wing.

Who is assasinated by the us govrrnment? Osama bin laden and other terrorists? That's a positive thing to assassinate evil criminals like him. I would personally class Andy Burnham as a socialist, jeremy Corbyn far left socialist, Yvette Cooper moderate left and Liz Kendall the blairite candidate centre left. Blair was a centre left politician. He managed to turn a 100 billion debt into 1 trillion in 10 years through wasteful spending. He was a popular UK politician as he appealed to 70% of the electorate. If Liz Kendall is elected leader Labour would record a landslide victory. Luckily their supporters look set to appoint Corbyn who will have no chance of winning an election.
Huntress
Posts: 60
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9/8/2015 12:34:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/8/2015 11:32:10 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/8/2015 12:09:02 AM, Huntress wrote:
At 9/7/2015 11:53:54 PM, 58539672 wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

Generally speaking, the US inhabits far more of the right end of the spectrum than Europe. Most (but certainly not all) of European right leaning parties tend to be what we in the US call Center or Center-Right. By that same scale difference, our Democratic (leftist) party is probably a fairly centrist party by Europe's standards. This difference gives off two different views of Europe from the US perspective. Our left all but idolizes/worships you, and our right thinks you will destroy western civilization and turn everyone into a Marxist socialist state (after you spawn the anti-christ of course).

Yes, and I just happen to be in the latter category. haha The Netherlands is like a libertarian utopia from what I've heard. And countries like Switzerland and Italy really don't fit that mold. The UK isn't that far left or it couldn't still have a party like UKIP. The Left would have run them out already if they could by accusing them of a bunch of isms.

Yes the left wing labour party in the UK is quite extreme left I would say. The party generally denies austerity and suggests increasing public spending despite the economic crisis and 1. 6 Trillion pound national debt. It suggests raising the minimum wage to 10 pounds an hour! The leadership contest that will conclude in a few days time will likely see its supporters choose Jeremy Corbyn as their next leader. He is not that far from being a communist and is certainly an extreme socialist. His policies include nationalising the railways, energy companies and the postal service. He suggests raising public spending, increasing corporate taxes, introducing a new land tax, increasing inheritance tax, introducing a tax on high value properties and raising the minimum wage to a point where employers would go out of business as cleaners would be on "10 an hour. He also has links to Hamas and Hezbollah and denies Israel has a right to exist. He is in my opinion a complete clown. He is a poor appointment for the leaders position as he will alienate most centrist voters with his far left policy and likely lose the general election. That's what I hope anyway! Yes ukip gets a lot of stick in the press and from Labour for being sexist, fascist, racist etc but has managed to establish itself as the 3rd party in the UK after the liberal democrats support collapsed.

We all do that sometimes and it's sad honestly, but we end up rooting for an extreme candidate on one side or the other in hopes it will alienate centrists from that party. I think that Labour can't run UKIP off is a good sign for the UK. If UKIP couldn't exist, then you'd be in trouble. That balance and dialogue still exist is good, but I'm not well informed enough on UK politics and day to day life to pretend I could pick a party. Having visited a couple times can't illuminate the full experience.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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9/8/2015 3:08:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

Yes definitely. Although, I disagree with somethings, I think it's a good the U.S isn't as Socialist as some European countries. It should be more like Switzerland.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
AureusRex
Posts: 66
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9/10/2015 3:58:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/8/2015 11:49:10 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/8/2015 12:31:37 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

It would seem so. Mass surveillance, torture and assassination could only possibly be called left-wing in some kind of Stalinist sense, and yet Obama oversees all these things and he is still cleverly called a liberal. If Jeremy Corbyn loses the leadership election for the Labour party then socialism in the UK will almost certainly be dead for a while, though. I mean, Blairites can hardly be called left-wing.

Who is assasinated by the us govrrnment? Osama bin laden and other terrorists? That's a positive thing to assassinate evil criminals like him.

I said that the US government carries out assassinations. You seem to simply be agreeing with me here.

I would personally class Andy Burnham as a socialist, jeremy Corbyn far left socialist, Yvette Cooper moderate left and Liz Kendall the blairite candidate centre left. Blair was a centre left politician.

Tony Blair isn't left-wing. That's why business loved him. That's why the Conservative government think highly of him. Please explain when Jeremy Corbyn called for the overthrow of capitalism, for worker control of the workplaces, etc. I mean, he is clearly left-wing, but being a 'far-left socialist', I am quite sure, commits you to revolutionary change. What I was laughing about is how Corbyn is portrayed 'the hard left', when it is fairly apparent that such a characterisation is absurd, unless you simply mean that he is the 'hard left of the right-skewed political spectrum that exists in modern Britain'.

He managed to turn a 100 billion debt into 1 trillion in 10 years through wasteful spending. He was a popular UK politician as he appealed to 70% of the electorate. If Liz Kendall is elected leader Labour would record a landslide victory. Luckily their supporters look set to appoint Corbyn who will have no chance of winning an election.

These cliches will not impress anyone. I hardly think Tory-lite would manage a landslide victory. Defeat, perhaps.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/10/2015 1:29:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 3:58:01 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/8/2015 11:49:10 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/8/2015 12:31:37 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

It would seem so. Mass surveillance, torture and assassination could only possibly be called left-wing in some kind of Stalinist sense, and yet Obama oversees all these things and he is still cleverly called a liberal. If Jeremy Corbyn loses the leadership election for the Labour party then socialism in the UK will almost certainly be dead for a while, though. I mean, Blairites can hardly be called left-wing.

Who is assasinated by the us govrrnment? Osama bin laden and other terrorists? That's a positive thing to assassinate evil criminals like him.

I said that the US government carries out assassinations. You seem to simply be agreeing with me here.

I would personally class Andy Burnham as a socialist, jeremy Corbyn far left socialist, Yvette Cooper moderate left and Liz Kendall the blairite candidate centre left. Blair was a centre left politician.

Tony Blair isn't left-wing. That's why business loved him. That's why the Conservative government think highly of him. Please explain when Jeremy Corbyn called for the overthrow of capitalism, for worker control of the workplaces, etc. I mean, he is clearly left-wing, but being a 'far-left socialist', I am quite sure, commits you to revolutionary change. What I was laughing about is how Corbyn is portrayed 'the hard left', when it is fairly apparent that such a characterisation is absurd, unless you simply mean that he is the 'hard left of the right-skewed political spectrum that exists in modern Britain'.

He managed to turn a 100 billion debt into 1 trillion in 10 years through wasteful spending. He was a popular UK politician as he appealed to 70% of the electorate. If Liz Kendall is elected leader Labour would record a landslide victory. Luckily their supporters look set to appoint Corbyn who will have no chance of winning an election.

These cliches will not impress anyone. I hardly think Tory-lite would manage a landslide victory. Defeat, perhaps.

I understand Labour party supporters saying that blairite politics is not what they believe in and don't want to vote for it. But Kendall would easily win a general election.
AureusRex
Posts: 66
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9/12/2015 1:02:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 1:29:37 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/10/2015 3:58:01 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/8/2015 11:49:10 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/8/2015 12:31:37 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

It would seem so. Mass surveillance, torture and assassination could only possibly be called left-wing in some kind of Stalinist sense, and yet Obama oversees all these things and he is still cleverly called a liberal. If Jeremy Corbyn loses the leadership election for the Labour party then socialism in the UK will almost certainly be dead for a while, though. I mean, Blairites can hardly be called left-wing.

Who is assasinated by the us govrrnment? Osama bin laden and other terrorists? That's a positive thing to assassinate evil criminals like him.

I said that the US government carries out assassinations. You seem to simply be agreeing with me here.

I would personally class Andy Burnham as a socialist, jeremy Corbyn far left socialist, Yvette Cooper moderate left and Liz Kendall the blairite candidate centre left. Blair was a centre left politician.

Tony Blair isn't left-wing. That's why business loved him. That's why the Conservative government think highly of him. Please explain when Jeremy Corbyn called for the overthrow of capitalism, for worker control of the workplaces, etc. I mean, he is clearly left-wing, but being a 'far-left socialist', I am quite sure, commits you to revolutionary change. What I was laughing about is how Corbyn is portrayed 'the hard left', when it is fairly apparent that such a characterisation is absurd, unless you simply mean that he is the 'hard left of the right-skewed political spectrum that exists in modern Britain'.

He managed to turn a 100 billion debt into 1 trillion in 10 years through wasteful spending. He was a popular UK politician as he appealed to 70% of the electorate. If Liz Kendall is elected leader Labour would record a landslide victory. Luckily their supporters look set to appoint Corbyn who will have no chance of winning an election.

These cliches will not impress anyone. I hardly think Tory-lite would manage a landslide victory. Defeat, perhaps.

I understand Labour party supporters saying that blairite politics is not what they believe in and don't want to vote for it. But Kendall would easily win a general election.

How? Even she admits that Corbyn is the better candidate.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/12/2015 7:35:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/12/2015 1:02:32 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/10/2015 1:29:37 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/10/2015 3:58:01 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/8/2015 11:49:10 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/8/2015 12:31:37 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

It would seem so. Mass surveillance, torture and assassination could only possibly be called left-wing in some kind of Stalinist sense, and yet Obama oversees all these things and he is still cleverly called a liberal. If Jeremy Corbyn loses the leadership election for the Labour party then socialism in the UK will almost certainly be dead for a while, though. I mean, Blairites can hardly be called left-wing.

Who is assasinated by the us govrrnment? Osama bin laden and other terrorists? That's a positive thing to assassinate evil criminals like him.

I said that the US government carries out assassinations. You seem to simply be agreeing with me here.

I would personally class Andy Burnham as a socialist, jeremy Corbyn far left socialist, Yvette Cooper moderate left and Liz Kendall the blairite candidate centre left. Blair was a centre left politician.

Tony Blair isn't left-wing. That's why business loved him. That's why the Conservative government think highly of him. Please explain when Jeremy Corbyn called for the overthrow of capitalism, for worker control of the workplaces, etc. I mean, he is clearly left-wing, but being a 'far-left socialist', I am quite sure, commits you to revolutionary change. What I was laughing about is how Corbyn is portrayed 'the hard left', when it is fairly apparent that such a characterisation is absurd, unless you simply mean that he is the 'hard left of the right-skewed political spectrum that exists in modern Britain'.

He managed to turn a 100 billion debt into 1 trillion in 10 years through wasteful spending. He was a popular UK politician as he appealed to 70% of the electorate. If Liz Kendall is elected leader Labour would record a landslide victory. Luckily their supporters look set to appoint Corbyn who will have no chance of winning an election.

These cliches will not impress anyone. I hardly think Tory-lite would manage a landslide victory. Defeat, perhaps.

I understand Labour party supporters saying that blairite politics is not what they believe in and don't want to vote for it. But Kendall would easily win a general election.

How? Even she admits that Corbyn is the better candidate.

That's very easy to explain. Despite Kendall being an uninspiring politician her centre left views are those held by a lot of voters. At the last election the centre right views of David Cameron were more popular than ed Milibands socialist views. Kendall would loose a few votes on the left of the party, mainly to loss of turnout, plaid and the greens. She would however pick up lib den, ukip and most importantly conservative voters. Due to the unfair electoral system in the UK which gives Labour a huge advantage she would easily obtain a majority. An example of this are the election victories easily obtained by Tony Blair. Corbyn would alienate centre left and centrist voters. Gifting almost any conservative candidate victory. The votes he would pick up off the snap, plaid, the greens and off extreme left parties would not be enough to offset this. Most voters are in the centre left area.
AureusRex
Posts: 66
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9/12/2015 3:39:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/12/2015 7:35:23 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/12/2015 1:02:32 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/10/2015 1:29:37 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/10/2015 3:58:01 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/8/2015 11:49:10 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/8/2015 12:31:37 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

It would seem so. Mass surveillance, torture and assassination could only possibly be called left-wing in some kind of Stalinist sense, and yet Obama oversees all these things and he is still cleverly called a liberal. If Jeremy Corbyn loses the leadership election for the Labour party then socialism in the UK will almost certainly be dead for a while, though. I mean, Blairites can hardly be called left-wing.

Who is assasinated by the us govrrnment? Osama bin laden and other terrorists? That's a positive thing to assassinate evil criminals like him.

I said that the US government carries out assassinations. You seem to simply be agreeing with me here.

I would personally class Andy Burnham as a socialist, jeremy Corbyn far left socialist, Yvette Cooper moderate left and Liz Kendall the blairite candidate centre left. Blair was a centre left politician.

Tony Blair isn't left-wing. That's why business loved him. That's why the Conservative government think highly of him. Please explain when Jeremy Corbyn called for the overthrow of capitalism, for worker control of the workplaces, etc. I mean, he is clearly left-wing, but being a 'far-left socialist', I am quite sure, commits you to revolutionary change. What I was laughing about is how Corbyn is portrayed 'the hard left', when it is fairly apparent that such a characterisation is absurd, unless you simply mean that he is the 'hard left of the right-skewed political spectrum that exists in modern Britain'.

He managed to turn a 100 billion debt into 1 trillion in 10 years through wasteful spending. He was a popular UK politician as he appealed to 70% of the electorate. If Liz Kendall is elected leader Labour would record a landslide victory. Luckily their supporters look set to appoint Corbyn who will have no chance of winning an election.

These cliches will not impress anyone. I hardly think Tory-lite would manage a landslide victory. Defeat, perhaps.

I understand Labour party supporters saying that blairite politics is not what they believe in and don't want to vote for it. But Kendall would easily win a general election.

How? Even she admits that Corbyn is the better candidate.

That's very easy to explain. Despite Kendall being an uninspiring politician her centre left views are those held by a lot of voters. At the last election the centre right views of David Cameron were more popular than ed Milibands socialist views.

As I explained in my other response, this is incorrect.

Kendall would loose a few votes on the left of the party, mainly to loss of turnout, plaid and the greens. She would however pick up lib den, ukip and most importantly conservative voters.

How can you claim that Kendall would be a centre-left candidate and simultaneously claim that she would gain votes from right-wing voters?

Due to the unfair electoral system in the UK which gives Labour a huge advantage she would easily obtain a majority. An example of this are the election victories easily obtained by Tony Blair.

I am not sure what has caused the delusion that Labour has a 'huge advantage' due to an 'unfair electoral system'. Tony Blair certainly is not evidence of that.

Corbyn would alienate centre left and centrist voters. Gifting almost any conservative candidate victory. The votes he would pick up off the snap, plaid, the greens and off extreme left parties would not be enough to offset this. Most voters are in the centre left area.

The right is composed of two halves. Those who understand that propaganda is a tool, and those who fall for it. Unfortunately you fall into the latter category, like most it would seem. At least I can take solace in the fact that it works. If a centre-left voter has more in common with David Cameron, the lord of austerity, the benefits chopper, the tuition fees raiser, the conservative authoritarian, the Bullingdon man, than Jeremy Corbyn, an environmentally aware bicycle-rider who wants to renationalise a couple of key sectors, invest in housing, eliminate tax loopholes and promote gender equality then I do not know what to think of politics.
AureusRex
Posts: 66
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9/12/2015 3:39:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/12/2015 7:35:23 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/12/2015 1:02:32 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/10/2015 1:29:37 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/10/2015 3:58:01 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/8/2015 11:49:10 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/8/2015 12:31:37 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

It would seem so. Mass surveillance, torture and assassination could only possibly be called left-wing in some kind of Stalinist sense, and yet Obama oversees all these things and he is still cleverly called a liberal. If Jeremy Corbyn loses the leadership election for the Labour party then socialism in the UK will almost certainly be dead for a while, though. I mean, Blairites can hardly be called left-wing.

Who is assasinated by the us govrrnment? Osama bin laden and other terrorists? That's a positive thing to assassinate evil criminals like him.

I said that the US government carries out assassinations. You seem to simply be agreeing with me here.

I would personally class Andy Burnham as a socialist, jeremy Corbyn far left socialist, Yvette Cooper moderate left and Liz Kendall the blairite candidate centre left. Blair was a centre left politician.

Tony Blair isn't left-wing. That's why business loved him. That's why the Conservative government think highly of him. Please explain when Jeremy Corbyn called for the overthrow of capitalism, for worker control of the workplaces, etc. I mean, he is clearly left-wing, but being a 'far-left socialist', I am quite sure, commits you to revolutionary change. What I was laughing about is how Corbyn is portrayed 'the hard left', when it is fairly apparent that such a characterisation is absurd, unless you simply mean that he is the 'hard left of the right-skewed political spectrum that exists in modern Britain'.

He managed to turn a 100 billion debt into 1 trillion in 10 years through wasteful spending. He was a popular UK politician as he appealed to 70% of the electorate. If Liz Kendall is elected leader Labour would record a landslide victory. Luckily their supporters look set to appoint Corbyn who will have no chance of winning an election.

These cliches will not impress anyone. I hardly think Tory-lite would manage a landslide victory. Defeat, perhaps.

I understand Labour party supporters saying that blairite politics is not what they believe in and don't want to vote for it. But Kendall would easily win a general election.

How? Even she admits that Corbyn is the better candidate.

That's very easy to explain. Despite Kendall being an uninspiring politician her centre left views are those held by a lot of voters. At the last election the centre right views of David Cameron were more popular than ed Milibands socialist views.

As I explained in my other response, this is incorrect.

Kendall would loose a few votes on the left of the party, mainly to loss of turnout, plaid and the greens. She would however pick up lib den, ukip and most importantly conservative voters.

How can you claim that Kendall would be a centre-left candidate and simultaneously claim that she would gain votes from right-wing voters?

Due to the unfair electoral system in the UK which gives Labour a huge advantage she would easily obtain a majority. An example of this are the election victories easily obtained by Tony Blair.

I am not sure what has caused the delusion that Labour has a 'huge advantage' due to an 'unfair electoral system'. Tony Blair certainly is not evidence of that.

Corbyn would alienate centre left and centrist voters. Gifting almost any conservative candidate victory. The votes he would pick up off the snap, plaid, the greens and off extreme left parties would not be enough to offset this. Most voters are in the centre left area.

The right is composed of two halves. Those who understand that propaganda is a tool, and those who fall for it. Unfortunately you fall into the latter category, like most it would seem. At least I can take solace in the fact that it works. If a centre-left voter has more in common with David Cameron, the lord of austerity, the benefits chopper, the tuition fees raiser, the conservative authoritarian, the Bullingdon man, than Jeremy Corbyn, an environmentally aware bicycle-rider who wants to renationalise a couple of key sectors, invest in housing, eliminate tax loopholes and promote gender equality then I do not know what to think of politics.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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9/12/2015 5:53:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/12/2015 3:39:16 PM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/12/2015 7:35:23 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/12/2015 1:02:32 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/10/2015 1:29:37 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/10/2015 3:58:01 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/8/2015 11:49:10 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 9/8/2015 12:31:37 AM, AureusRex wrote:
At 9/7/2015 9:35:03 PM, beng100 wrote:
As someone from the UK I seem to find the USA quite a right wing country. I vote for and generally support the mainstream right wing party in the UK- the conservative party. Despite the name I don't think it's particularly conservative. The party in my opinion sits somewhere in between the republican and democrat parties in the USA on the political spectrum. The main left wing opposition party- the Labour party is a party with affiliations to unions and can be described as having socialist values. Is it just me or do you agree with that analysis?

It would seem so. Mass surveillance, torture and assassination could only possibly be called left-wing in some kind of Stalinist sense, and yet Obama oversees all these things and he is still cleverly called a liberal. If Jeremy Corbyn loses the leadership election for the Labour party then socialism in the UK will almost certainly be dead for a while, though. I mean, Blairites can hardly be called left-wing.

Who is assasinated by the us govrrnment? Osama bin laden and other terrorists? That's a positive thing to assassinate evil criminals like him.

I said that the US government carries out assassinations. You seem to simply be agreeing with me here.

I would personally class Andy Burnham as a socialist, jeremy Corbyn far left socialist, Yvette Cooper moderate left and Liz Kendall the blairite candidate centre left. Blair was a centre left politician.

Tony Blair isn't left-wing. That's why business loved him. That's why the Conservative government think highly of him. Please explain when Jeremy Corbyn called for the overthrow of capitalism, for worker control of the workplaces, etc. I mean, he is clearly left-wing, but being a 'far-left socialist', I am quite sure, commits you to revolutionary change. What I was laughing about is how Corbyn is portrayed 'the hard left', when it is fairly apparent that such a characterisation is absurd, unless you simply mean that he is the 'hard left of the right-skewed political spectrum that exists in modern Britain'.

He managed to turn a 100 billion debt into 1 trillion in 10 years through wasteful spending. He was a popular UK politician as he appealed to 70% of the electorate. If Liz Kendall is elected leader Labour would record a landslide victory. Luckily their supporters look set to appoint Corbyn who will have no chance of winning an election.

These cliches will not impress anyone. I hardly think Tory-lite would manage a landslide victory. Defeat, perhaps.

I understand Labour party supporters saying that blairite politics is not what they believe in and don't want to vote for it. But Kendall would easily win a general election.

How? Even she admits that Corbyn is the better candidate.

That's very easy to explain. Despite Kendall being an uninspiring politician her centre left views are those held by a lot of voters. At the last election the centre right views of David Cameron were more popular than ed Milibands socialist views.

As I explained in my other response, this is incorrect.

Kendall would loose a few votes on the left of the party, mainly to loss of turnout, plaid and the greens. She would however pick up lib den, ukip and most importantly conservative voters.

How can you claim that Kendall would be a centre-left candidate and simultaneously claim that she would gain votes from right-wing voters?

Due to the unfair electoral system in the UK which gives Labour a huge advantage she would easily obtain a majority. An example of this are the election victories easily obtained by Tony Blair.

I am not sure what has caused the delusion that Labour has a 'huge advantage' due to an 'unfair electoral system'. Tony Blair certainly is not evidence of that.

Corbyn would alienate centre left and centrist voters. Gifting almost any conservative candidate victory. The votes he would pick up off the snap, plaid, the greens and off extreme left parties would not be enough to offset this. Most voters are in the centre left area.

The right is composed of two halves. Those who understand that propaganda is a tool, and those who fall for it. Unfortunately you fall into the latter category, like most it would seem. At least I can take solace in the fact that it works. If a centre-left voter has more in common with David Cameron, the lord of austerity, the benefits chopper, the tuition fees raiser, the conservative authoritarian, the Bullingdon man, than Jeremy Corbyn, an environmentally aware bicycle-rider who wants to renationalise a couple of key sectors, invest in housing, eliminate tax loopholes and promote gender equality then I do not know what to think of politics.

Firstly I didn't say Liz Kendall would win right wing votes I listed parties she would win votes off. The lib dems are slightly left of centre. Many centrist voters realize they have no chance of winning both the general election and the local constituency and choose between left and right. They will usually vote for the more moderate candidate which Kendall is. The point with ukip was in hindsight an error. Labour supporters making protest ukip votes would probably be more satisfied with Corbyn than Kendalls boring sensible policy. Cameron is certainly not far right. He has made some minor cuts but many more are needed. I made a list of ideas on the other forum we are discussing virtually the same issues in response to a question about how i think we should improvd the economic situation from somebody else. Have a read and see what you think. I actually hold a considerable number of left wing views in certain areas.