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"Tossed salad" vs "Melting pot"

nonentity
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9/7/2010 10:29:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
In your opinion, what is better for society and multicultural/ethnic relations as a whole: for the individual to assimilate to a country's culture or for the country to accomodate different cultures?
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/7/2010 10:31:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/7/2010 10:29:27 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
In your opinion, what is better for society and multicultural/ethnic relations as a whole: for the individual to assimilate to a country's culture or for the country to accomodate different cultures?

I personally like accomodation of other cultures as it can promote and teach tolerance. I strongly believe that much of the racism occurs stems from ignorance. If people are given an opportunity to experience other cultures it would probably reduce much of this hate.
Anarcho
Posts: 887
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9/7/2010 10:33:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Ummm tossed salad would definitely not be very good.
InsertNameHere wrote: "If we evolved from apes then why are apes still around?

This is semi-serious btw. It's something that seems strange to me. You'd think that entire species would cease to exist if other ones evolved from them."

Anarcho wrote: *facepalm*
juvanya
Posts: 613
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9/7/2010 10:55:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/7/2010 10:33:44 PM, Anarcho wrote:
Ummm tossed salad would definitely not be very good.
Tossed salad is delicious.
InsertNameHere
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9/7/2010 10:56:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/7/2010 10:55:27 PM, juvanya wrote:
At 9/7/2010 10:33:44 PM, Anarcho wrote:
Ummm tossed salad would definitely not be very good.
Tossed salad is delicious.

Yes, yes it is.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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9/7/2010 11:11:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/7/2010 10:56:30 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/7/2010 10:55:27 PM, juvanya wrote:
At 9/7/2010 10:33:44 PM, Anarcho wrote:
Ummm tossed salad would definitely not be very good.
Tossed salad is delicious.

Yes, yes it is.

mmmmmmmk. now we know what ya'll do for fun... >.>

as to the OP, why does it have to be one or the other? the minority adopts those portions of the dominant culture that they like and the dominant culture absorbs some of the minority culture that the members pick up... its not like cultural exchange is a one way street.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
Cerebral_Narcissist
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9/8/2010 3:37:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/7/2010 10:29:27 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
In your opinion, what is better for society and multicultural/ethnic relations as a whole: for the individual to assimilate to a country's culture or for the country to accomodate different cultures?

Mostly the former.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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9/8/2010 7:56:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think that those migrating need to accommodate and add to the dominant culture, versus the dominant culture subtracting from itself and accommodating the new arrivals. It's also best if the dominant culture welcomed the new arrivals.
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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9/8/2010 8:18:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/7/2010 10:29:27 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
In your opinion, what is better for society and multicultural/ethnic relations as a whole: for the individual to assimilate to a country's culture or for the country to accomodate different cultures?

one country accommodating different cultures is far more preferable if we are to prevent the world being cut up in different cultural zones.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/8/2010 9:24:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
A nation is only as nation because the people share a cultural identity in some way, shape or form. It's the main reason why countries form, countries break into two and regions secede. If someone is to move to a country they should be obliged to take up some practices and customs, but not all. Many times immigrants add positively to culture, and this very visible through food. Chinese food is extremely popular because Chinese people offered something unknown and delicious. Personally, I am tolerant of other cultures up to a point. If my recently immigrated neighbour has a practice of banging drums and gongs at 5 in the morning there's going to be some issues.

As for government policy, immigrants should only be allowed in where they are guaranteed a job. Quotas are usually silly and arbitrary. Assimilation shouldn't be necessary, unless those cultures break the law in place. I don't think the education system should cosy up to minority cultures either in the name of tolerance.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
innomen
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9/8/2010 9:29:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 8:18:09 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 9/7/2010 10:29:27 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
In your opinion, what is better for society and multicultural/ethnic relations as a whole: for the individual to assimilate to a country's culture or for the country to accomodate different cultures?

one country accommodating different cultures is far more preferable if we are to prevent the world being cut up in different cultural zones.

The world is already cut up into different cultural zones, they're called countries.
Sam_Lowry
Posts: 367
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9/8/2010 9:33:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have a problem when some cultures have horrible and barbaric traditions that they see fit to drag into the modern world.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/8/2010 9:35:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 9:24:39 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
A nation is only as nation because the people share a cultural identity in some way, shape or form. It's the main reason why countries form, countries break into two and regions secede. If someone is to move to a country they should be obliged to take up some practices and customs, but not all. Many times immigrants add positively to culture, and this very visible through food. Chinese food is extremely popular because Chinese people offered something unknown and delicious. Personally, I am tolerant of other cultures up to a point. If my recently immigrated neighbour has a practice of banging drums and gongs at 5 in the morning there's going to be some issues.

As for government policy, immigrants should only be allowed in where they are guaranteed a job. Quotas are usually silly and arbitrary. Assimilation shouldn't be necessary, unless those cultures break the law in place. I don't think the education system should cosy up to minority cultures either in the name of tolerance.

Pretty good common sense there.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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9/8/2010 9:40:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
A tossed salad served in a melting pot would be ideal.

Immigrants should retain their cultural identities but they must adapt them to their host nation.

Most importantly immigrants should learn the language of their adopted country and observe the local laws and customs.

That includes those millions of British people living in France, Spain and Portugal who never bother to learn the lingo, only mix socially with other Brits and eat and drink in British-owned restaurants and bars.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
badger
Posts: 11,793
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9/8/2010 9:43:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
i'd say neither really. everyone should just treat everyone else equally. we've often been playing a game of soccer in our local park and had a few pakistanis join in, and i've joined in on a game of cricket with them before... i'll stick to the soccer :) people shouldn't need to go out of their way to please anyone, just treat everyone the same. if migrants were really that bothered they should just hit a few of the pubs for a couple of nights. they wouldn't be long making friends then. alcohol's mighty stuff!
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Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/8/2010 9:58:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 9:40:18 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
A tossed salad served in a melting pot would be ideal.

Immigrants should retain their cultural identities but they must adapt them to their host nation.

Most importantly immigrants should learn the language of their adopted country and observe the local laws and customs.

That includes those millions of British people living in France, Spain and Portugal who never bother to learn the lingo, only mix socially with other Brits and eat and drink in British-owned restaurants and bars.

I certainly agree that you should know the language of the country you are in a prerequisite for employment. For health and safety reasons if nothing else. Retired ex-pats not so much, but why they would not want to learn the language and only associate with their own countrymen is anyone's guess.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/8/2010 10:48:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 9:58:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/8/2010 9:40:18 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
A tossed salad served in a melting pot would be ideal.

Immigrants should retain their cultural identities but they must adapt them to their host nation.

Most importantly immigrants should learn the language of their adopted country and observe the local laws and customs.

That includes those millions of British people living in France, Spain and Portugal who never bother to learn the lingo, only mix socially with other Brits and eat and drink in British-owned restaurants and bars.

I certainly agree that you should know the language of the country you are in a prerequisite for employment. For health and safety reasons if nothing else. Retired ex-pats not so much, but why they would not want to learn the language and only associate with their own countrymen is anyone's guess.

To what extent? A full blown A Level exam in that language? Being able to ask for the toilet?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/8/2010 10:54:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 10:48:17 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/8/2010 9:58:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/8/2010 9:40:18 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
A tossed salad served in a melting pot would be ideal.

Immigrants should retain their cultural identities but they must adapt them to their host nation.

Most importantly immigrants should learn the language of their adopted country and observe the local laws and customs.

That includes those millions of British people living in France, Spain and Portugal who never bother to learn the lingo, only mix socially with other Brits and eat and drink in British-owned restaurants and bars.

I certainly agree that you should know the language of the country you are in a prerequisite for employment. For health and safety reasons if nothing else. Retired ex-pats not so much, but why they would not want to learn the language and only associate with their own countrymen is anyone's guess.

To what extent? A full blown A Level exam in that language? Being able to ask for the toilet?

Fluency.
Unless this causes a manifest absurdity and you find yourself unable to employ the world's best neurosurgeon who happens to only speak swahili.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/8/2010 10:56:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 10:54:51 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/8/2010 10:48:17 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/8/2010 9:58:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/8/2010 9:40:18 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
A tossed salad served in a melting pot would be ideal.

Immigrants should retain their cultural identities but they must adapt them to their host nation.

Most importantly immigrants should learn the language of their adopted country and observe the local laws and customs.

That includes those millions of British people living in France, Spain and Portugal who never bother to learn the lingo, only mix socially with other Brits and eat and drink in British-owned restaurants and bars.

I certainly agree that you should know the language of the country you are in a prerequisite for employment. For health and safety reasons if nothing else. Retired ex-pats not so much, but why they would not want to learn the language and only associate with their own countrymen is anyone's guess.

To what extent? A full blown A Level exam in that language? Being able to ask for the toilet?

Fluency.
Unless this causes a manifest absurdity and you find yourself unable to employ the world's best neurosurgeon who happens to only speak swahili.

Ideally, yes, but I think if you have an economy that needs foreign workers and fast you can't count on them all learning English fluently.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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9/8/2010 11:00:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 9:29:08 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/8/2010 8:18:09 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 9/7/2010 10:29:27 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
In your opinion, what is better for society and multicultural/ethnic relations as a whole: for the individual to assimilate to a country's culture or for the country to accomodate different cultures?

one country accommodating different cultures is far more preferable if we are to prevent the world being cut up in different cultural zones.

The world is already cut up into different cultural zones, they're called countries.

I thought a country is a mixture of different cultures, haphazardly arranged into a geographical area.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/8/2010 11:01:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 11:00:27 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 9/8/2010 9:29:08 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/8/2010 8:18:09 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 9/7/2010 10:29:27 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
In your opinion, what is better for society and multicultural/ethnic relations as a whole: for the individual to assimilate to a country's culture or for the country to accomodate different cultures?

one country accommodating different cultures is far more preferable if we are to prevent the world being cut up in different cultural zones.

The world is already cut up into different cultural zones, they're called countries.

I thought a country is a mixture of different cultures, haphazardly arranged into a geographical area.

That's Africa. In Europe most cultural regions are broken into or want to break into separate states.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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9/8/2010 12:17:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 9:24:39 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
A nation is only as nation because the people share a cultural identity in some way, shape or form. It's the main reason why countries form, countries break into two and regions secede. If someone is to move to a country they should be obliged to take up some practices and customs, but not all. Many times immigrants add positively to culture, and this very visible through food. Chinese food is extremely popular because Chinese people offered something unknown and delicious. Personally, I am tolerant of other cultures up to a point. If my recently immigrated neighbour has a practice of banging drums and gongs at 5 in the morning there's going to be some issues.

As for government policy, immigrants should only be allowed in where they are guaranteed a job. Quotas are usually silly and arbitrary. Assimilation shouldn't be necessary, unless those cultures break the law in place. I don't think the education system should cosy up to minority cultures either in the name of tolerance.

I almost agree with this 100%.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/8/2010 12:20:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 12:17:50 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
At 9/8/2010 9:24:39 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
A nation is only as nation because the people share a cultural identity in some way, shape or form. It's the main reason why countries form, countries break into two and regions secede. If someone is to move to a country they should be obliged to take up some practices and customs, but not all. Many times immigrants add positively to culture, and this very visible through food. Chinese food is extremely popular because Chinese people offered something unknown and delicious. Personally, I am tolerant of other cultures up to a point. If my recently immigrated neighbour has a practice of banging drums and gongs at 5 in the morning there's going to be some issues.

As for government policy, immigrants should only be allowed in where they are guaranteed a job. Quotas are usually silly and arbitrary. Assimilation shouldn't be necessary, unless those cultures break the law in place. I don't think the education system should cosy up to minority cultures either in the name of tolerance.

I almost agree with this 100%.

What's your dissenting viewpoint?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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9/8/2010 12:30:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 12:20:02 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/8/2010 12:17:50 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
At 9/8/2010 9:24:39 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
A nation is only as nation because the people share a cultural identity in some way, shape or form. It's the main reason why countries form, countries break into two and regions secede. If someone is to move to a country they should be obliged to take up some practices and customs, but not all. Many times immigrants add positively to culture, and this very visible through food. Chinese food is extremely popular because Chinese people offered something unknown and delicious. Personally, I am tolerant of other cultures up to a point. If my recently immigrated neighbour has a practice of banging drums and gongs at 5 in the morning there's going to be some issues.

As for government policy, immigrants should only be allowed in where they are guaranteed a job. Quotas are usually silly and arbitrary. Assimilation shouldn't be necessary, unless those cultures break the law in place. I don't think the education system should cosy up to minority cultures either in the name of tolerance.

I almost agree with this 100%.

What's your dissenting viewpoint?

"As for government policy, immigrants should only be allowed in where they are guaranteed a job. Quotas are usually silly and arbitrary. Assimilation shouldn't be necessary, unless those cultures break the law in place. I don't think the education system should cosy up to minority cultures either in the name of tolerance."

I'm not sure how I feel about immigrants having to be guaranteed a job before they come. Would that include coming on a Student Visa? If so, then yeah, I agree.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/8/2010 12:41:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 12:30:23 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
At 9/8/2010 12:20:02 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/8/2010 12:17:50 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
At 9/8/2010 9:24:39 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
A nation is only as nation because the people share a cultural identity in some way, shape or form. It's the main reason why countries form, countries break into two and regions secede. If someone is to move to a country they should be obliged to take up some practices and customs, but not all. Many times immigrants add positively to culture, and this very visible through food. Chinese food is extremely popular because Chinese people offered something unknown and delicious. Personally, I am tolerant of other cultures up to a point. If my recently immigrated neighbour has a practice of banging drums and gongs at 5 in the morning there's going to be some issues.

As for government policy, immigrants should only be allowed in where they are guaranteed a job. Quotas are usually silly and arbitrary. Assimilation shouldn't be necessary, unless those cultures break the law in place. I don't think the education system should cosy up to minority cultures either in the name of tolerance.

I almost agree with this 100%.

What's your dissenting viewpoint?

"As for government policy, immigrants should only be allowed in where they are guaranteed a job. Quotas are usually silly and arbitrary. Assimilation shouldn't be necessary, unless those cultures break the law in place. I don't think the education system should cosy up to minority cultures either in the name of tolerance."

I'm not sure how I feel about immigrants having to be guaranteed a job before they come. Would that include coming on a Student Visa? If so, then yeah, I agree.

Makes sense. It stops needless immigration. If a business needs migrant workers they can come through with the business' endorsement. For smaller business' they can use the governments fine immigration or use a private one.

As for student visas, sure, why not.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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9/8/2010 12:41:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 12:41:24 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:.

Makes sense. It stops needless immigration. If a business needs migrant workers they can come through with the business' endorsement. For smaller business' they can use the governments fine immigration services or use a private one.

As for student visas, sure, why not.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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9/8/2010 2:14:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 10:56:04 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/8/2010 10:54:51 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/8/2010 10:48:17 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/8/2010 9:58:55 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 9/8/2010 9:40:18 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
A tossed salad served in a melting pot would be ideal.

Immigrants should retain their cultural identities but they must adapt them to their host nation.

Most importantly immigrants should learn the language of their adopted country and observe the local laws and customs.

That includes those millions of British people living in France, Spain and Portugal who never bother to learn the lingo, only mix socially with other Brits and eat and drink in British-owned restaurants and bars.

I certainly agree that you should know the language of the country you are in a prerequisite for employment. For health and safety reasons if nothing else. Retired ex-pats not so much, but why they would not want to learn the language and only associate with their own countrymen is anyone's guess.

To what extent? A full blown A Level exam in that language? Being able to ask for the toilet?

Fluency.
Unless this causes a manifest absurdity and you find yourself unable to employ the world's best neurosurgeon who happens to only speak swahili.

Ideally, yes, but I think if you have an economy that needs foreign workers and fast you can't count on them all learning English fluently.

I will be sacrificed on the altar of the free market but I believe that this is a flawed way of looking at the economy. If you look at it from the point of view of GDP and share prices fine, but I don't, I factor in social costs and am essentially a bit of an economic nationalist.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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9/8/2010 5:21:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/7/2010 10:29:27 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
In your opinion, what is better for society and multicultural/ethnic relations as a whole: for the individual to assimilate to a country's culture or for the country to accomodate different cultures?:

Little bit of both. In a perfect world, immigrants would have enough respect for the host nation that they would learn the language an assimilate without losing their culture. Also in a perfect world, citizens of the host nation would bend over backwards to help the foreigner feel welcome.

In a perfect world...
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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9/8/2010 5:24:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/8/2010 5:21:09 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 9/7/2010 10:29:27 PM, TulleKrazy wrote:
In your opinion, what is better for society and multicultural/ethnic relations as a whole: for the individual to assimilate to a country's culture or for the country to accomodate different cultures?:

Little bit of both. In a perfect world, immigrants would have enough respect for the host nation that they would learn the language an assimilate without losing their culture. Also in a perfect world, citizens of the host nation would bend over backwards to help the foreigner feel welcome.

In a perfect world...

A friend of mine was born in Canada and her parents barely speak English. She's almost 22...