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Difference between Progressive and Liberal?

Greyparrot
Posts: 14,337
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9/10/2015 4:49:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Liberal means having the government take away your freedom to do bad things to others.

Progressive means changing laws to reflect advances in science, such as gay marriage, etc.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/10/2015 5:18:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 4:49:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Liberal means having the government take away your freedom to do bad things to others.

Progressive means changing laws to reflect advances in science, such as gay marriage, etc.

Know what? I don't dislike that description at all.

I had a little argument going with a well known conservative on the site "progressive", basically saying where the GOP has progressive positions they should say so. Progressive, further, does not denote "correct". Some changes turn out to be bad. I support progressive goals, knowing that moving forward has risks.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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9/10/2015 5:24:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 5:18:48 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/10/2015 4:49:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Liberal means having the government take away your freedom to do bad things to others.

Progressive means changing laws to reflect advances in science, such as gay marriage, etc.

Know what? I don't dislike that description at all.

I had a little argument going with a well known conservative on the site "progressive", basically saying where the GOP has progressive positions they should say so. Progressive, further, does not denote "correct". Some changes turn out to be bad. I support progressive goals, knowing that moving forward has risks.

But what is the difference between a liberal and a progressive?
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/10/2015 5:31:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Very little difference if we're talking about modern liberalism.

"[Progressivism is] the urge to regulate every aspect of American life, economic and moral - even the most intimate and crucial aspects of family life. ...[an] alliance of a technocratic drive for government regulation, the supposed expression of 'value-free science,' and the pietist religious impulse to save America - and the world - by state coercion."

-- Murray Rothbard
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/10/2015 5:40:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"[Progressivism is] the urge to ... - even the most intimate and crucial aspects of family life. ...:
-- Murray Rothbard

How does that work?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/10/2015 6:08:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 5:40:07 PM, TBR wrote:
"[Progressivism is] the urge to ... - even the most intimate and crucial aspects of family life. ...:
-- Murray Rothbard

How does that work?

It doesn't work, but they push for it and do it anyways.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
TBR
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9/10/2015 6:10:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It doesn't work, but they push for it and do it anyways.

The only party interested in my bedroom seems very clearly to be the GOP.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,337
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9/10/2015 6:13:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 5:18:48 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/10/2015 4:49:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Liberal means having the government take away your freedom to do bad things to others.

Progressive means changing laws to reflect advances in science, such as gay marriage, etc.

Know what? I don't dislike that description at all.

Thanks!
Varrack
Posts: 2,411
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9/10/2015 6:20:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Progressive means change, but conservatives want change on a lot of issues, which kind of makes the word meaningless. It'd be nice if they kept one label and dropped the other.

If someone comes up to me and tells me they're progressive, that doesn't tell me anything. What do you want change on? What reforms do you wish to enact? Change is advocated in many parties.
Varrack
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9/10/2015 6:21:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 5:18:48 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/10/2015 4:49:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Liberal means having the government take away your freedom to do bad things to others.

Progressive means changing laws to reflect advances in science, such as gay marriage, etc.

Know what? I don't dislike that description at all.

I had a little argument going with a well known conservative on the site "progressive", basically saying where the GOP has progressive positions they should say so. Progressive, further, does not denote "correct". Some changes turn out to be bad. I support progressive goals, knowing that moving forward has risks.

Progressive = change. There's a lot of things I want change on, so would that technically out me under the label?
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/10/2015 6:25:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Progressive = change. There's a lot of things I want change on, so would that technically out me under the label?

That is what I was attempting to get through to thett. Now, we are not talking "changing it back to the way it was in the 50's" we are talking about progress.

So, my only point was, and is, is that progressive is what it says it is. Moving forward little by little. If republicans have progressive ideas, and they should, then republicans should be proud of that plank. Talk it up, and call it progressive.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/10/2015 6:32:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 6:10:47 PM, TBR wrote:
It doesn't work, but they push for it and do it anyways.

The only party interested in my bedroom seems very clearly to be the GOP.

Besides Santorum, who is actually pushing sodomy laws. Even Santorum gave up that crusade. Republicans are not trying to intervene in the bedroom (except obviously opposing pedophilia. You say you want politicians and government out of the bedroom but I wonder if you oppose laws banning man-child relations.)

But let's be clear, your side wants government to get in between every intimate action during intercourse between adults. The left demands verbal or written consent every step of the way from the first kiss, to the unbuttoning, to getting in the sheets.

The left says consensual sex is rape because of their absurd definition that any intercourse without affirmative yes and agreement of why they are doing it, it is therefore rape.

This is according to California legislation, new college campus rules, the U.S. Justice Dept, Dept. of Education, and the twisted minds of progressives.

http://www.breitbart.com...

http://collegeinsurrection.com...

http://www.wsj.com...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/10/2015 7:44:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 6:47:01 PM, TBR wrote:
So your argument is, the Liberals aren't allowing rape? That troubles you?

Liberals are against consensual sex and want to put government in between each action that occurs during intercourse. Under these liberal rules, the woman can withdraw consent the next day and call it rape. Liberals say drunk sex is also rape.

Under liberal rules, 90% of the country are rapists because all of us were born under those circumstances. Anyone can ask their parents if they had verbal contracts or signed written consent forms and they will all say no. That's because liberals are against consensual sex and want to impose government in between the relations WITHOUT consent.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/10/2015 7:49:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
That's because liberals are against consensual sex

No, liberals are totally FOR consensual sex, just not rape.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/10/2015 8:24:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 7:49:39 PM, TBR wrote:
That's because liberals are against consensual sex

No, liberals are totally FOR consensual sex, just not rape.

False. Liberals don't know the difference and therefore violate the rights of consenting adults.

"Attorney Hans Bader argues the language of the proposed law could make ordinary people out to be sexual criminals.

'Since most people have engaged in sex without verbal consent, supporters of the bill are effectively redefining most people, and most happily-married couples, as rapists,' he said.

Bader goes even further, saying the law could violate individual privacy rights:

'Requiring people to have verbal discussion before sex violates their privacy rights, under the logic of Supreme Court decisions such as Lawrence v. Texas (2003), which struck down Texas sodomy law, and federal appeals court decisions like Wilson v. Taylor (1984), which ruled that dating relationships are protected against unwarranted meddling by the Constitutional freedom of intimate association.'"

http://www.breitbart.com...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/10/2015 8:31:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
That's because liberals are against consensual sex

No, liberals are totally FOR consensual sex, just not rape.

False. Liberals don't know the difference and therefore violate the rights of consenting adults.
Baseless.


"Attorney Hans Bader argues the language of the proposed law could make ordinary people out to be sexual criminals.
Hans Bader is hardly unbiased, but regardless, ordinary people could be sexual criminals, right?


'Since most people have engaged in sex without verbal consent, supporters of the bill are effectively redefining most people, and most happily-married couples, as rapists,' he said.
Right. Laws are not retroactive.


Bader goes even further, saying the law could violate individual privacy rights:

'Requiring people to have verbal discussion before sex violates their privacy rights, under the logic of Supreme Court decisions such as Lawrence v. Texas (2003), which struck down Texas sodomy law, and federal appeals court decisions like Wilson v. Taylor (1984), which ruled that dating relationships are protected against unwarranted meddling by the Constitutional freedom of intimate association.'"
This would be an interesting discussion. The only part of the entire thing that seems even reasonably plausible.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/10/2015 9:07:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 6:10:47 PM, TBR wrote:
It doesn't work, but they push for it and do it anyways.

The only party interested in my bedroom seems very clearly to be the GOP.

If you make a distinction between bedroom and homestead, then you may be right, but if not, they both clearly care way too much.
My work here is, finally, done.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/10/2015 9:08:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 9:07:20 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/10/2015 6:10:47 PM, TBR wrote:
It doesn't work, but they push for it and do it anyways.

The only party interested in my bedroom seems very clearly to be the GOP.

If you make a distinction between bedroom and homestead, then you may be right, but if not, they both clearly care way too much.
Aside from the "rape" discussion I am involved with above, how do you see Liberals involved in bedroom decisions?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/10/2015 9:10:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 9:08:21 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/10/2015 9:07:20 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 9/10/2015 6:10:47 PM, TBR wrote:
It doesn't work, but they push for it and do it anyways.

The only party interested in my bedroom seems very clearly to be the GOP.

If you make a distinction between bedroom and homestead, then you may be right, but if not, they both clearly care way too much.
Aside from the "rape" discussion I am involved with above, how do you see Liberals involved in bedroom decisions?

Do you mean homesteads?
I said if you make a distinction between bedroom and homestead, you may be right.
I don't make such distinction, so neither party has the high ground.
My work here is, finally, done.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/10/2015 9:12:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Do you mean homesteads?
I said if you make a distinction between bedroom and homestead, you may be right.
I don't make such distinction, so neither party has the high ground.

What is your distinction?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/10/2015 9:19:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 9:08:21 PM, TBR wrote:
Aside from the "rape" discussion I am involved with above, how do you see Liberals involved in bedroom decisions?

Given the original charge that progressives want to control and regulate the intimate and the family life:

Liberals are trying to force women to accept men into their bathrooms. Some liberals want establishments to start building a new set of bathrooms for trans.

Liberals want to ban words mother and father. They have already banned "mother" and "father" in legal documents in California and France. They are now trying to ban the words entirely.

Liberals want to police the food of our children and even ban brown bag homemade lunch.

Liberals want to tax every single thing in your bedroom and probably want a vice tax on bedroom items they don't like.

Liberals are the ones pushing all this e-cigarette restriction legislation, now they want to go into our mouths and stop us from huffing water vapor.

Liberals want to tax the CO2 that we breathe. They want a global carbon tax scheme to "save the earth" even though CO2 is actually causing desert greening and not global warming.

Is there anything the liberal doesn't want to get their paws on to control?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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9/10/2015 9:20:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 9:12:44 PM, TBR wrote:
Do you mean homesteads?
I said if you make a distinction between bedroom and homestead, you may be right.
I don't make such distinction, so neither party has the high ground.

What is your distinction?

I don't make a distinction between "the bedroom" and "the homestead", since both affect me in my home.

Spanking, gun possession (i.e. protection), smoking, contracts for hired help, regulation for babysitters (i.e. day care) to name a few.
My work here is, finally, done.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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9/10/2015 9:23:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What is your distinction?

I don't make a distinction between "the bedroom" and "the homestead", since both affect me in my home.

Spanking, gun possession (i.e. protection), smoking, contracts for hired help, regulation for babysitters (i.e. day care) to name a few.

I see. Reasonable distinction ( or description ). I don't think that was the intent of the user that mentioned the issue, but you could make a reasonable argument out of the larger definition.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/11/2015 1:18:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 6:10:47 PM, TBR wrote:
It doesn't work, but they push for it and do it anyways.

The only party interested in my bedroom seems very clearly to be the GOP.

You're talking about the liberal wing of the Republican Party known as Neocons.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/11/2015 1:23:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/10/2015 7:49:39 PM, TBR wrote:
That's because liberals are against consensual sex

No, liberals are totally FOR consensual sex, just not rape.

I've seen liberal feminists, literally call every act of sex between a man and a woman rape. GeoLaurates straw an arguments are true for many liberals. Though he is cherry picking the most radical aspects of them.