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Controversy: Transexuality and the Restrooms

Unitomic
Posts: 591
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9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder, not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

Links (I did not thoroughly read these, so I can not guarantee impartiality):
http://dailysignal.com...
http://www.inquisitr.com...
http://www.cnn.com...
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed
.
This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...


Links (I did not thoroughly read these, so I can not guarantee impartiality):
http://dailysignal.com...
http://www.inquisitr.com...
http://www.cnn.com...
Thank you for voting!
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/21/2015 8:34:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

Do you have a PHD in gender studies? If not please shut up about this subject.

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed
.
This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...


Links (I did not thoroughly read these, so I can not guarantee impartiality):
http://dailysignal.com...
http://www.inquisitr.com...
http://www.cnn.com...
Hoppi
Posts: 1,655
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9/21/2015 8:50:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 8:34:01 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

Do you have a PHD in gender studies? If not please shut up about this subject.

Do you have a PhD in anthropological linguistics? If not, you're unqualified to make comments about when people may or may not speak.
Hoppi
Posts: 1,655
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9/21/2015 8:56:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder, not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?


Links (I did not thoroughly read these, so I can not guarantee impartiality):
http://dailysignal.com...
http://www.inquisitr.com...
http://www.cnn.com...

When I was at school there weren't any change rooms. We had to get changed in the corridors. This is like complaining about the maid getting the wrong type of caviar.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/21/2015 8:58:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 8:50:59 AM, Hoppi wrote:
At 9/21/2015 8:34:01 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

Do you have a PHD in gender studies? If not please shut up about this subject.

Do you have a PhD in anthropological linguistics? If not, you're unqualified to make comments about when people may or may not speak.

No I don't :(
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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9/21/2015 9:35:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).


Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder, not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?


Links (I did not thoroughly read these, so I can not guarantee impartiality):
http://dailysignal.com...
http://www.inquisitr.com...
http://www.cnn.com...

I don't share your views on this, but I realize it's complicated. A lot of people have concerns, and that's understandable. I do believe it is important to be sensitive about what this individual is going through, and to be cognizant of her feelings.

The one thing I want to point out though, and what makes this a more complicated issue, is that (contrary to part of your statement above) there is a unisex faculty bathroom already available. From the second article you posted: "When classes resumed at Hillsboro High School in Missouri, Perry decided to no longer use the faculty unisex bathroom offered by district officials..."

The issue is that now she wants to use the girls bathroom, and for a young person, it's entirely understandable that they wouldn't want to be separated, treated as an outsider, or singled out as different. I also understand that this is concerning to a great number of people, and therefore being sensitive to the needs of all the concerned parties doesn't come with any easy solutions.
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airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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9/21/2015 9:47:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed


...And this is why it no longer exists. This site doesn't need to be filled with random "you're stupid" comments instead of actual arguments.

I'm sure you and I actually agree on this issue for the most part, so I know there are arguments that can be made against the above (and you started your post rather well).

This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...

Not appropriate. Make an actual substantive statement/argument, or keep your thoughts to yourself.
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Philocat
Posts: 728
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9/21/2015 11:27:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I agree with Unitomic, it would make hundreds of women uncomfortable and embarrassed to have to change in the presence of a man. Sure, it would make the transsexual feel better, but his happiness is to the detriment of the majority's happiness.
slo1
Posts: 4,316
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9/21/2015 2:25:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder, not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.


Couple things:
1. Why do you feel that providing options for transexuals as "validating" them. Even with the view point that it is a mental disorder they are not a danger to society and believe it or not, they can provide benefit to society just like any ol' joe can provide benefit to socitey via paying taxes, raising a family, etc. From your view point, it is akin to saying I'm not going to validate schizophrenia by placing them in mental institutions. In the case of transgender, you have to give them a place to use a washroom or locker room somewhere. See below.

2. On your statement about parents not having to accept a transgender girl dressing with the girls. What about this? Should a transgender male (has lady parts) walk into a woman's bathroom where a man's 7 yr old daughter is in? How would the father know that the person walking in has female genitalia and "belongs" there versus a pedophile?

I ultimately disagree with your idea of what a mental disorder is and how they should be approached. There is no question that someone who is transgender has something different than the majority of persons who's gender identity matches their genitalia, but on the other hand there is clearly something different from the millions with various degrees of obsessive compulsive behavior. Every body has some type of neurosis or psychosis, from picky eaters to fear of being alone.

Our job is not to tell them that they should not have obsessive/compulsiveness or whatever the neurosis is, but instead help them navigate the world so they can live within it without anxiety and negative repercussions to themselves or others.

Fundamentally, you are OK to look at transgender as a type of development issue just as you are OK to look at moderate case of obsessive/compulsiveness as "something went wrong". However, you are not in the right to say they have no right to act upon those "disorders" and should pretend it does not exist within them, especially if it does not impact others. There should also be tremendous compassion as people struggle with acceptance or of the negative impacts of life. In the case of obsessive/compulsive something such as excessively worrying about something can completely ruin an outing. The issue is largely one that is internal and they don't have society piling on them. Transgender has society judging them and the crushing daily societal pressures. Your approach to them is just adding to that pile and is more damaging than helpful.

You might say you are forcing a picky eater to eat food which is healthy, but the difference to that neurosis is that the body needs healthy food and by forcing it, it is possible to change eating habits in the long term. A transgender needs a place to dress and try as you might to force it, you can't change gender identity. This is a social issue, not one of "validation".

I can see how the desire to dress with the identifying gender would impact others, thus the best way to approach is having a trans offshoot bathroom/locker room on each boys and girls facility. Girls who are comfortable with dressing with a trans female could use the girls or trans girl locker room. The trans girl would have to use the trans girl locker room.

Personally I would have no concern what so ever with a Trans man in the lock room at the gym with me, and I think the US is waaaay to fixated on genitalia. Apparently everyone thinks of them as gross until they are using them.
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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9/21/2015 5:34:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 8:34:01 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

Do you have a PHD in gender studies? If not please shut up about this subject.

Nah, I don't claim to, I just happen to have this small ability to do a basic google search.

Should try it bro.

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed
.
This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...


Links (I did not thoroughly read these, so I can not guarantee impartiality):
http://dailysignal.com...
http://www.inquisitr.com...
http://www.cnn.com...
Thank you for voting!
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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9/21/2015 5:37:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 9:47:28 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed


...And this is why it no longer exists. This site doesn't need to be filled with random "you're stupid" comments instead of actual arguments.

I'm sure you and I actually agree on this issue for the most part, so I know there are arguments that can be made against the above (and you started your post rather well).

THANKS DAD!

This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...

Not appropriate. Make an actual substantive statement/argument, or keep your thoughts to yourself.

No. When transgendered people commit suicide at the rate they do, OP's post is dangerous and needs to be shut down. There isn't room for debate on the basis of ignorance.

Also, I find it interesting that you come after ME for these comments, yet I reported one some time ago on my gun debates in which a person claimed I was a "con man" (libel) and nothing was done.

Start being fair. I'm happy you think so highly of me, but this is getting silly.
Thank you for voting!
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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9/21/2015 6:30:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Whatever people think of transsexualism, I think the easy solution here is to just make every restroom and changing room into the unisex-style family room. Every big store, park, and exercise place I've been to in recent memory now has family restrooms and family changing rooms. Is there some reason we can't just have those in place of gender-specific rooms?
Unitomic
Posts: 591
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9/21/2015 6:33:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 5:37:04 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 9:47:28 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed


...And this is why it no longer exists. This site doesn't need to be filled with random "you're stupid" comments instead of actual arguments.

I'm sure you and I actually agree on this issue for the most part, so I know there are arguments that can be made against the above (and you started your post rather well).

THANKS DAD!

This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...

Not appropriate. Make an actual substantive statement/argument, or keep your thoughts to yourself.

No. When transgendered people commit suicide at the rate they do, OP's post is dangerous and needs to be shut down. There isn't room for debate on the basis of ignorance.

Also, I find it interesting that you come after ME for these comments, yet I reported one some time ago on my gun debates in which a person claimed I was a "con man" (libel) and nothing was done.

Start being fair. I'm happy you think so highly of me, but this is getting silly.

I find this to be the most dangerous view. The idea that an opinion should be "shut down" because you don't like it. You claim it's because "transsexuals are committing suicide" at a high rate, however that is an emotional appeal. Or rather "Think of the Children!" Appeal (only with transsexuals). You just simply don't like it.

It is not my problem if they are committing suicide. It in no way alters the validity of my argument.

Also, fun fact. The "PHD" argument is what we call "Courtiers Reply". It is in fact a fallacy.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/21/2015 6:38:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 5:34:29 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 8:34:01 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

Do you have a PHD in gender studies? If not please shut up about this subject.

Nah, I don't claim to, I just happen to have this small ability to do a basic google search.

Should try it bro.

Bullshitt, there are intelligent arguments on probably atleast ten different contradictory views on this subject, you're acting like a child. You have no ideal how much he's researched his opinion or what his actual opinion is other than a generic statement. Treat the subject with respect and approach it in a rational way instead of throwing a hissy fit.

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed
.
This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...


Links (I did not thoroughly read these, so I can not guarantee impartiality):
http://dailysignal.com...
http://www.inquisitr.com...
http://www.cnn.com...
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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9/21/2015 6:40:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:33:01 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:37:04 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 9:47:28 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed


...And this is why it no longer exists. This site doesn't need to be filled with random "you're stupid" comments instead of actual arguments.

I'm sure you and I actually agree on this issue for the most part, so I know there are arguments that can be made against the above (and you started your post rather well).

THANKS DAD!

This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...

Not appropriate. Make an actual substantive statement/argument, or keep your thoughts to yourself.

No. When transgendered people commit suicide at the rate they do, OP's post is dangerous and needs to be shut down. There isn't room for debate on the basis of ignorance.

Also, I find it interesting that you come after ME for these comments, yet I reported one some time ago on my gun debates in which a person claimed I was a "con man" (libel) and nothing was done.

Start being fair. I'm happy you think so highly of me, but this is getting silly.

I find this to be the most dangerous view. The idea that an opinion should be "shut down" because you don't like it. You claim it's because "transsexuals are committing suicide" at a high rate, however that is an emotional appeal. Or rather "Think of the Children!" Appeal (only with transsexuals). You just simply don't like it.

Actually, my argument is factual.

Transgender folks have the highest rates of sexual abuse, PTSD, physical abuse, harassment, among others than most other demographics.

Your argument that it is a mental illness is the reason why.

It is not my problem if they are committing suicide. It in no way alters the validity of my argument.

Annnddd this is why your argument should be shut down.

Also, fun fact. The "PHD" argument is what we call "Courtiers Reply". It is in fact a fallacy.

Fallacy fallacy.
Thank you for voting!
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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9/21/2015 6:42:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:38:14 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:34:29 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 8:34:01 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

Do you have a PHD in gender studies? If not please shut up about this subject.

Nah, I don't claim to, I just happen to have this small ability to do a basic google search.

Should try it bro.

Bullshitt, there are intelligent arguments on probably atleast ten different contradictory views on this subject, you're acting like a child. You have no ideal how much he's researched his opinion or what his actual opinion is other than a generic statement. Treat the subject with respect and approach it in a rational way instead of throwing a hissy fit.

and when those intelligent arguments come, I'll deal with them. But OPs argument wasn't.

It was literally "disregard them they're mentally ill". Hardly intellectual.

And nice ad homs. I find this hilarious from one of the biggest trolls on the site.

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed
.
This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...


Links (I did not thoroughly read these, so I can not guarantee impartiality):
http://dailysignal.com...
http://www.inquisitr.com...
http://www.cnn.com...
Thank you for voting!
komododragon8
Posts: 405
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9/21/2015 6:45:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder, not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?


Links (I did not thoroughly read these, so I can not guarantee impartiality):
http://dailysignal.com...
http://www.inquisitr.com...
http://www.cnn.com...

Just throw all the genders into one bathroom and many of these issues will be remedied.
Unitomic
Posts: 591
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9/21/2015 6:56:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:40:56 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:33:01 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:37:04 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 9:47:28 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed


...And this is why it no longer exists. This site doesn't need to be filled with random "you're stupid" comments instead of actual arguments.

I'm sure you and I actually agree on this issue for the most part, so I know there are arguments that can be made against the above (and you started your post rather well).

THANKS DAD!

This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...

Not appropriate. Make an actual substantive statement/argument, or keep your thoughts to yourself.

No. When transgendered people commit suicide at the rate they do, OP's post is dangerous and needs to be shut down. There isn't room for debate on the basis of ignorance.

Also, I find it interesting that you come after ME for these comments, yet I reported one some time ago on my gun debates in which a person claimed I was a "con man" (libel) and nothing was done.

Start being fair. I'm happy you think so highly of me, but this is getting silly.

I find this to be the most dangerous view. The idea that an opinion should be "shut down" because you don't like it. You claim it's because "transsexuals are committing suicide" at a high rate, however that is an emotional appeal. Or rather "Think of the Children!" Appeal (only with transsexuals). You just simply don't like it.

Actually, my argument is factual.

Transgender folks have the highest rates of sexual abuse, PTSD, physical abuse, harassment, among others than most other demographics.


Appeal to Emotion.

Your argument that it is a mental illness is the reason why.

It is not my problem if they are committing suicide. It in no way alters the validity of my argument.

Annnddd this is why your argument should be shut down.


And still, the idea that a valid point should be shut down because others don't like it changes nothing.

Also, fun fact. The "PHD" argument is what we call "Courtiers Reply". It is in fact a fallacy.

Fallacy fallacy.

That isn't what a fallacy fallacy is. A Fallacy Fallacy means that, even if apart of your argument is invalid, that your view may still be right. If you only gave one argument, and it is shown to be illogical, then you have to show that your case is still right. Instead you throw Fallacy Appeal, and just expect that to be enough. No, your statement is still a fallacy. You're opinion may be correct, but you will need to back it up with further, non-fallacious, evidence. Otherwise you're just hiding behind a fallacy appeal.
Unitomic
Posts: 591
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9/21/2015 6:58:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
To shorten it up. An "Argument" and a "View" are different. And Argument backs a View. If an argument is shown to be fallacious, then that Argument is invalid. You're View may still be valid, but you have to back it up with new arguments. A Fallacy Appeal only works if you can prove that you're views still stand when the argument is shown to be fallacious.
Unitomic
Posts: 591
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9/21/2015 6:59:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Now. Back to the topic, rather then mindless insults and petty attempts at shutting down rational views because of butthurt.
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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9/21/2015 7:08:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:33:01 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:37:04 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 9:47:28 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed


...And this is why it no longer exists. This site doesn't need to be filled with random "you're stupid" comments instead of actual arguments.

I'm sure you and I actually agree on this issue for the most part, so I know there are arguments that can be made against the above (and you started your post rather well).

THANKS DAD!

This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...

Not appropriate. Make an actual substantive statement/argument, or keep your thoughts to yourself.

No. When transgendered people commit suicide at the rate they do, OP's post is dangerous and needs to be shut down. There isn't room for debate on the basis of ignorance.

Also, I find it interesting that you come after ME for these comments, yet I reported one some time ago on my gun debates in which a person claimed I was a "con man" (libel) and nothing was done.

Start being fair. I'm happy you think so highly of me, but this is getting silly.

I find this to be the most dangerous view. The idea that an opinion should be "shut down" because you don't like it. You claim it's because "transsexuals are committing suicide" at a high rate, however that is an emotional appeal. Or rather "Think of the Children!" Appeal (only with transsexuals). You just simply don't like it.

It is not my problem if they are committing suicide. It in no way alters the validity of my argument.

Also, fun fact. The "PHD" argument is what we call "Courtiers Reply". It is in fact a fallacy.

Actually, now that I think about it. No it isn't.

Courtiers reply does not actually work if I point out WHY you're wrong. I did. You don't distinguish between sex and gender.

Learn your fallacies.
Thank you for voting!
Unitomic
Posts: 591
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9/21/2015 7:13:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 7:08:48 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:33:01 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 9/21/2015 5:37:04 PM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 9:47:28 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 9/21/2015 7:29:48 AM, TheHitchslap wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
Lately, a controversy has started up. In the town of Hillsboro (near where I live. Actually went to school there), a guy claiming to be transsexual entered the women's changing room. As you can imagine, it has caused quite a problem. Some claim that he/she should be allowed to use the women's bathroom and changing room (or men's room. Which ever). Some say that the women in the school (and their parents by extension) shouldn't have to be forced to accept someone who for all intents and purposes a guy in their changing rooms. Some say "put in a unisex bathroom" (although that would require alot of money for the convenience of two or three people.).

We have unisex washrooms in our university. It really isn't. Just make sure its a toilet and not a urinal.

Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

Personally, I view transsexuality as a mental disorder,

Oh, since when did you get your Ph.D in psychology?

not something that we should change society to create "acceptance" for. "Acceptance" and "Tolerance" (and "rights" for that matter) are buzzwords, essentially a "Validate yourself and your opinions for free" card. It doesn't matter what he pretends to be. He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

See, this is why the weekly stupid should have never ended. This would be number 1 for the week, guaranteed


...And this is why it no longer exists. This site doesn't need to be filled with random "you're stupid" comments instead of actual arguments.

I'm sure you and I actually agree on this issue for the most part, so I know there are arguments that can be made against the above (and you started your post rather well).

THANKS DAD!

This works on the Vice-Versa as well (a transsexual woman using a guys changing room.) What are all of your thoughts?

My thoughts are as follows: https://www.youtube.com...

Not appropriate. Make an actual substantive statement/argument, or keep your thoughts to yourself.

No. When transgendered people commit suicide at the rate they do, OP's post is dangerous and needs to be shut down. There isn't room for debate on the basis of ignorance.

Also, I find it interesting that you come after ME for these comments, yet I reported one some time ago on my gun debates in which a person claimed I was a "con man" (libel) and nothing was done.

Start being fair. I'm happy you think so highly of me, but this is getting silly.

I find this to be the most dangerous view. The idea that an opinion should be "shut down" because you don't like it. You claim it's because "transsexuals are committing suicide" at a high rate, however that is an emotional appeal. Or rather "Think of the Children!" Appeal (only with transsexuals). You just simply don't like it.

It is not my problem if they are committing suicide. It in no way alters the validity of my argument.

Also, fun fact. The "PHD" argument is what we call "Courtiers Reply". It is in fact a fallacy.

Actually, now that I think about it. No it isn't.

Courtiers reply does not actually work if I point out WHY you're wrong. I did. You don't distinguish between sex and gender.

Learn your fallacies.

No, "Do you have a PHD" is still a fallacy.

And I do distinguish the two. If you gender is not in line with your sex, it's a mental illness.

Now, as I said, back to the topic.
rocktheboat
Posts: 2
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9/21/2015 7:37:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

I agree but would even expand on your views. Scholar Judith Butler has even suggested that there is no such thing as sex, especially in the binary (2 sexes), because there is a spectrum of ambiguous genitalia. The reason for the "2 sexes" as you say is because parents and doctors opt to perform sex-reassignment or "correction" surgery to fit the idea of 2 sexes. In fact, humans are much more diverse in reality.

I would also say that there is no fixed number of genders either, because given that it deals with identity and expression, it is as diverse as Butler argues sex is. And as you say, people can be non-binary, androgenous, etc. So there are many, many genders.

Back to the initial argument: you are again thinking in the binary by arguing against "transsexuality." You would actually be dealing with a much larger community of transgender, non-binary, queer, and androgenous people. So a unisex bathroom would not benefit, as you say, 2 or 3 people. Anyone (even cis people) could use that bathroom. We actually have these at my "single-sex" school to include those with other identities.

As for transGENDER being a "mental illness," I think your cis heteronormative self is a sickness. Get out of my all-inclusive bathroom and changing rooms, het! :p
But really, it's all about exposure and acceptance. Quoting a wise elder of mine, "You can get used to anything," even people who are extremely different from you. My guess is you don't knowingly have any gender queer friends. Maybe make some! That's the best way to see another perspective.

If you'd like to read up, here are some links:
http://www.nytimes.com...
http://everydayfeminism.com...
http://everydayfeminism.com...

Hope this helps! Thanks for starting the discussion. That alone is important.
TheHitchslap
Posts: 1,231
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9/21/2015 8:37:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 7:37:50 PM, rocktheboat wrote:
Also, you don't seem to understand the difference between sex and gender. Sex is what your born with, gender is what you identify as. There are only technically two sexes (some exceptions), but there are 5 differing types of gender.

Those who gender are non-binary, for example, should be accepted. No issues.

I agree but would even expand on your views. Scholar Judith Butler has even suggested that there is no such thing as sex, especially in the binary (2 sexes), because there is a spectrum of ambiguous genitalia. The reason for the "2 sexes" as you say is because parents and doctors opt to perform sex-reassignment or "correction" surgery to fit the idea of 2 sexes. In fact, humans are much more diverse in reality.

I would also say that there is no fixed number of genders either, because given that it deals with identity and expression, it is as diverse as Butler argues sex is. And as you say, people can be non-binary, androgenous, etc. So there are many, many genders.

Back to the initial argument: you are again thinking in the binary by arguing against "transsexuality." You would actually be dealing with a much larger community of transgender, non-binary, queer, and androgenous people. So a unisex bathroom would not benefit, as you say, 2 or 3 people. Anyone (even cis people) could use that bathroom. We actually have these at my "single-sex" school to include those with other identities.

As for transGENDER being a "mental illness," I think your cis heteronormative self is a sickness. Get out of my all-inclusive bathroom and changing rooms, het! :p
But really, it's all about exposure and acceptance. Quoting a wise elder of mine, "You can get used to anything," even people who are extremely different from you. My guess is you don't knowingly have any gender queer friends. Maybe make some! That's the best way to see another perspective.

If you'd like to read up, here are some links:
http://www.nytimes.com...
http://everydayfeminism.com...
http://everydayfeminism.com...

Hope this helps! Thanks for starting the discussion. That alone is important.

I just want to make it emphatically clear: I'm on your side. I never argued against it/claimed it was a mental illness, that was OP. I don't see the problem with universal washrooms. Several schools already have them and they work just fine.
Thank you for voting!
Hoppi
Posts: 1,655
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9/21/2015 10:56:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

This bit here. What's wrong with having someone of another sex getting changed near you?
Unitomic
Posts: 591
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9/21/2015 10:59:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 10:56:00 PM, Hoppi wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

This bit here. What's wrong with having someone of another sex getting changed near you?

People don't like it. You may not care, but others do care. That's why there were protests by the women on that school. They don't feel comfortable with it. It's simple to not see the problem when it isn't us in the situation.
Hoppi
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9/21/2015 11:07:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 10:59:07 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 9/21/2015 10:56:00 PM, Hoppi wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

This bit here. What's wrong with having someone of another sex getting changed near you?

People don't like it. You may not care, but others do care. That's why there were protests by the women on that school. They don't feel comfortable with it. It's simple to not see the problem when it isn't us in the situation.

Yeah, but you said that parents shouldn't have to accept a man getting changed near their daughter. You make it sound like a fundamental right, but I'm not sure what grounds there are for it.
Unitomic
Posts: 591
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9/21/2015 11:09:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 11:07:49 PM, Hoppi wrote:
At 9/21/2015 10:59:07 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 9/21/2015 10:56:00 PM, Hoppi wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

This bit here. What's wrong with having someone of another sex getting changed near you?

People don't like it. You may not care, but others do care. That's why there were protests by the women on that school. They don't feel comfortable with it. It's simple to not see the problem when it isn't us in the situation.

Yeah, but you said that parents shouldn't have to accept a man getting changed near their daughter. You make it sound like a fundamental right, but I'm not sure what grounds there are for it.
No, you are playing on the semantics of "should". But also, you forget that using the women's changing room is also not a "fundamental right". Both instances are matters of convenience. So it's the convenience of a multitude of people against that of one or two.
Hoppi
Posts: 1,655
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9/21/2015 11:11:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 11:09:47 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 9/21/2015 11:07:49 PM, Hoppi wrote:
At 9/21/2015 10:59:07 PM, Unitomic wrote:
At 9/21/2015 10:56:00 PM, Hoppi wrote:
At 9/21/2015 6:40:34 AM, Unitomic wrote:
He is a guy, and no woman should be forced to keep quite while he dresses near her, for fear of being a "bigot" (another buzzword these days). Nor should a father or mother have to accept a man getting dressed near their daughter.

This bit here. What's wrong with having someone of another sex getting changed near you?

People don't like it. You may not care, but others do care. That's why there were protests by the women on that school. They don't feel comfortable with it. It's simple to not see the problem when it isn't us in the situation.

Yeah, but you said that parents shouldn't have to accept a man getting changed near their daughter. You make it sound like a fundamental right, but I'm not sure what grounds there are for it.
No, you are playing on the semantics of "should". But also, you forget that using the women's changing room is also not a "fundamental right". Both instances are matters of convenience. So it's the convenience of a multitude of people against that of one or two.

Yeah, but that would be argument for having a special change room for ethnic minorities. People from the majority group shouldn't be forced to get changed next to those people. That's obviously bigoted thinking, so how is your way different?