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Saudi Teenager to be Crucified

YYW
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9/21/2015 12:11:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
http://mic.com...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the Saudi government is cruel, barbaric, uncivilized trash; their actions are as reprehensible as their motives; and it is disgusting that we consider them an ally when they are barely distinguishable from the terrorists we just spent the last decade trying to purge from this earth.
Tsar of DDO
slo1
Posts: 4,352
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9/21/2015 1:19:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 12:11:08 PM, YYW wrote:
http://mic.com...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the Saudi government is cruel, barbaric, uncivilized trash; their actions are as reprehensible as their motives; and it is disgusting that we consider them an ally when they are barely distinguishable from the terrorists we just spent the last decade trying to purge from this earth.

Just more evidence that our middle east allies and policy is all backwards. We speak from every side of our mouths by bedding with the Saudi's and their ridiculousness. I'm going to write a note to my Senators about this instance. It will be interesting to see what kind of response I get from Ted Cruz's office.
tejretics
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9/21/2015 4:23:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
That is outrageous and brutal. Horrifying.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
TBR
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9/21/2015 4:34:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 12:11:08 PM, YYW wrote:
http://mic.com...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the Saudi government is cruel, barbaric, uncivilized trash; their actions are as reprehensible as their motives; and it is disgusting that we consider them an ally when they are barely distinguishable from the terrorists we just spent the last decade trying to purge from this earth.

I keep passing on commenting on this one, but... Oh why not.

YES the Saudi's are as barbaric as any a$$-backwards legal system found anywhere on the planet. They are operating a modern country using Sharia law as the root. I cant for the life of me find one redeemable quality of Saudi culture, and the best I can summons to say about them is, they are not as outright crazy as some neighbors.

Sitting a-top big quantity of oil can make you rich, and a necessary evil, but I don't have to like you in any way.
YYW
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9/22/2015 2:19:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 4:34:31 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/21/2015 12:11:08 PM, YYW wrote:
http://mic.com...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the Saudi government is cruel, barbaric, uncivilized trash; their actions are as reprehensible as their motives; and it is disgusting that we consider them an ally when they are barely distinguishable from the terrorists we just spent the last decade trying to purge from this earth.

I keep passing on commenting on this one, but... Oh why not.

YES the Saudi's are as barbaric as any a$$-backwards legal system found anywhere on the planet. They are operating a modern country using Sharia law as the root. I cant for the life of me find one redeemable quality of Saudi culture, and the best I can summons to say about them is, they are not as outright crazy as some neighbors.

Sitting a-top big quantity of oil can make you rich, and a necessary evil, but I don't have to like you in any way.

This is one of the reasons I support domestic drilling, and more importantly alternative energy.

I hate the Saudi government... they are filthy, barbaric and cruel... and I would rather give our money to communist Venezuelans than islamo-facist Saudis.
Tsar of DDO
1harderthanyouthink
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9/22/2015 2:26:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yay for US foreign relations.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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TBR
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9/22/2015 3:43:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is one of the reasons I support domestic drilling, and more importantly alternative energy.

Me too. Way more on nuclear and alt, but the day we can say "f**k you, and your piss-hole of a region" the better. Sit in the ungodly heat and enjoy your caliphate. I just don't care one bit.
Varrack
Posts: 2,410
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9/22/2015 3:58:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 3:43:45 AM, TBR wrote:
This is one of the reasons I support domestic drilling, and more importantly alternative energy.

Me too. Way more on nuclear and alt, but the day we can say "f**k you, and your piss-hole of a region" the better. Sit in the ungodly heat and enjoy your caliphate. I just don't care one bit.

You don't care? This is tyrannical and must be stopped. Please don't tell me you want to do nothing about this.
TBR
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9/22/2015 4:05:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You don't care? This is tyrannical and must be stopped. Please don't tell me you want to do nothing about this.

Varrack - I find it hard to express exactly how little I care. I will open my doors wide to immigrants who would like to move away from the hell, but if they choose to live however they like, it is NONE of my business.
YYW
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9/22/2015 4:11:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 3:58:42 AM, Varrack wrote:
At 9/22/2015 3:43:45 AM, TBR wrote:
This is one of the reasons I support domestic drilling, and more importantly alternative energy.

Me too. Way more on nuclear and alt, but the day we can say "f**k you, and your piss-hole of a region" the better. Sit in the ungodly heat and enjoy your caliphate. I just don't care one bit.

You don't care? This is tyrannical and must be stopped. Please don't tell me you want to do nothing about this.

That's not what TBR was saying; I'll let him explain though.

I do not care about the Saudi government. They are horrible, and they deserve to be held in the highest contempt in the court of world opinion.

Really... the Saudi's make Saddam look civilized.
Tsar of DDO
Yassine
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9/22/2015 5:43:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 12:11:08 PM, YYW wrote:
http://mic.com...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the Saudi government is cruel, barbaric, uncivilized trash; their actions are as reprehensible as their motives;

- I am not saying the Saudi government doesn't do horrible things. But, compared to the US government, it's pretty civilised.

and it is disgusting that we consider them an ally when they are barely distinguishable from the terrorists we just spent the last decade trying to purge from this earth.

- You don't need to look too far. The biggest terrorist on Earth is the US government & her allies.
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Yassine
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9/22/2015 6:00:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 4:34:31 PM, TBR wrote:

YES the Saudi's are as barbaric as any a$$-backwards legal system found anywhere on the planet.

- You don't even know their legal system.

They are operating a modern country using Sharia law as the root.

- Most muslim majority countries use Shari'a Law as the source of legislation.

I cant for the life of me find one redeemable quality of Saudi culture, and the best I can summons to say about them is, they are not as outright crazy as some neighbors.

- You don't even know the Saudi culture!!! I am sorry, I misjudged you. It won't happen again.

Sitting a-top big quantity of oil can make you rich, and a necessary evil, but I don't have to like you in any way.

- It's not like the world likes America either.
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Skepsikyma
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9/22/2015 8:52:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 3:58:42 AM, Varrack wrote:
At 9/22/2015 3:43:45 AM, TBR wrote:
This is one of the reasons I support domestic drilling, and more importantly alternative energy.

Me too. Way more on nuclear and alt, but the day we can say "f**k you, and your piss-hole of a region" the better. Sit in the ungodly heat and enjoy your caliphate. I just don't care one bit.

You don't care? This is tyrannical and must be stopped. Please don't tell me you want to do nothing about this.

Unfortunately, this is how things work over there. This has less to do with Shari'a law, and more to do with the fact that his father is a Shi'a cleric and political leader, trained under Iranian ayatollahs, who has been calling for the secession of the Eastern provinces of Saudi Arabia. Basically, the protests that his father spurred, and which he was participating in, were a part of an Iranian plot to exploit sectarian divides and cripple their biggest geopolitical rival in the region. King Salman is actually at a crucial point in the consolidation of his power, which has been ongoing for a while now, and probably wants to crush this as quickly and decisively as possible.

Is the punishment completely brutal? Yes. But this isn't just an example of those crazy Saudis wanting to execute someone cause GOD; there is a potent threat to national sovereignty here. The fact that this is a suppression of Iranian influence is also why the US, and its allies, will do nothing about it.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
YYW
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9/22/2015 11:43:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 5:43:12 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/21/2015 12:11:08 PM, YYW wrote:
http://mic.com...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the Saudi government is cruel, barbaric, uncivilized trash; their actions are as reprehensible as their motives;

- I am not saying the Saudi government doesn't do horrible things. But, compared to the US government, it's pretty civilised.

and it is disgusting that we consider them an ally when they are barely distinguishable from the terrorists we just spent the last decade trying to purge from this earth.

- You don't need to look too far. The biggest terrorist on Earth is the US government & her allies.

http://www.reactiongifs.com...
Tsar of DDO
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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9/22/2015 11:48:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 8:52:18 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:

Unfortunately, this is how things work over there. This has less to do with Shari'a law, and more to do with the fact that his father is a Shi'a cleric and political leader, trained under Iranian ayatollahs, who has been calling for the secession of the Eastern provinces of Saudi Arabia. Basically, the protests that his father spurred, and which he was participating in, were a part of an Iranian plot to exploit sectarian divides and cripple their biggest geopolitical rival in the region. King Salman is actually at a crucial point in the consolidation of his power, which has been ongoing for a while now, and probably wants to crush this as quickly and decisively as possible.

- Nice. I like it when someone actually understands a little bit of the politics involved. I often see journalists criticising & lashing out against Iran & its policies, but it's clear they are clueless of the immense amount of factors than play into these policies. Americans assume that every other country is as stable as their own, they don't make the effort to understand how things work elsewhere. Especially, since America was not always stable, it went through civil wars, the civil right movement, the red scare...etc. It's the lack of understanding that creates these rash & emotional reactions & leads to the disregard of the value of the other!

Is the punishment completely brutal? Yes.

- Saudi hopes to make things go back to normal with this execution.

But this isn't just an example of those crazy Saudis wanting to execute someone cause GOD; there is a potent threat to national sovereignty here. The fact that this is a suppression of Iranian influence is also why the US, and its allies, will do nothing about it.

- Unfortunately, the Saudi government doesn't understand the value of martyrs. Sure, the guy caused chaos, but death would make him a martyr in the eyes of Shi'a, which would lead to more hostility against the government in the future. This pattern can be also observed in Egypt. The government should be attempting reconciliation & unity. However, considering the current state of affairs between Saudi & Iran in the Yemeni conflict with the Hutis, well, civil war is likely to happen in the future.
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Yassine
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9/22/2015 12:18:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 11:43:48 AM, YYW wrote:
At 9/22/2015 5:43:12 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 9/21/2015 12:11:08 PM, YYW wrote:
http://mic.com...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the Saudi government is cruel, barbaric, uncivilized trash; their actions are as reprehensible as their motives;

- I am not saying the Saudi government doesn't do horrible things. But, compared to the US government, it's pretty civilised.

and it is disgusting that we consider them an ally when they are barely distinguishable from the terrorists we just spent the last decade trying to purge from this earth.

- You don't need to look too far. The biggest terrorist on Earth is the US government & her allies.

http://www.reactiongifs.com...

-_-
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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TBR
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9/22/2015 2:57:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Lets run through some of this Yassine. There are points I would like to reply to in several sub-threads.

- I am not saying the Saudi government doesn't do horrible things. But, compared to the US government, it's pretty civilised.
Yup. We are the worlds bully. We have done terrible things. Difference is, I stand up, say so, and want it to STOP.

- You don't even know their legal system.
I know enough to say what I feel about it. How about crucifixion of a teen? If that were happening in my country you better believe that I would pissed about it, and talking non-stop.

- You don't even know the Saudi culture!!! I am sorry, I misjudged you. It won't happen again.

I don't have to be immersed in a culture to get an opinion of it. You say later "It's not like the world likes America either." I agree, do they know more about the US culture than I do about there culture? I think not.

The issues you express with me seem to begin and end with "you don't understand" delivered in a slightly nasty tone. There is a ton of arrogance in that sort of statement. Forget typical "you don't know how much I know" the arrogance from you is staggering for a different reason. The thing is, I DON'T need to know more about the culture or religion or the people to tell you exactly how wrong crucifixion a teen is. I don't need to know more about Islam to say that small arguments over if the Koran says not to kill "people of the book" is insidious, it is.
Yassine
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9/22/2015 5:19:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 2:57:14 PM, TBR wrote:
Lets run through some of this Yassine. There are points I would like to reply to in several sub-threads.

- I welcome any fruitful dialogue.

Yup. We are the worlds bully. We have done terrible things. Difference is, I stand up, say so, and want it to STOP.

- & they don't?! This just proves that you have little to no awareness of how people live & what they aspire in countries other than yours. Most regimes in muslim majority countries are dictatorships supported & funded by the US & its allies. & much of the injustice & tyranny brought onto these nations is done by these regimes with US blessings. That aside from all the killing, pillaging, invasions, plundering, chaos & civil wars the US & its allies are responsible for.

I know enough to say what I feel about it.

- I am pretty sure you know near to nothing about it.

How about crucifixion of a teen? If that were happening in my country you better believe that I would pissed about it, and talking non-stop.

- First of all, you're bringing up an example of political aspect, unrelated to the actual Legal System. Second of all, judgement based on ignorance can never be deemed sound! I can as easily criticise US Legal System even if I knew next to nothing about it. So what?! What does that make me? An ignorant, of course.

I don't have to be immersed in a culture to get an opinion of it.

- You don't speak Arabic. You don't know the history of Arabia. You don't know its religion. You don't know its people. You don't know their costumes... I mean, you can certainly have an opinion about it, but then what?! A lot of people have opinions about things that don't even exist, just watch Jimmy Kimmel in Hollywood Blvrd.

You say later "It's not like the world likes America either."

- When I say the world doesn't like America, I am specifically referring to the Foreign Policies of the American government, not americans & their culture. On the contrary, Globalisation is just another word for Americanisation now.

I agree, do they know more about the US culture than I do about there culture? I think not.

- Of course everybody knows about American culture more than Americans know about other cultures, by far. Everybody here speaks English, watches American media in all its colours, shows, series, programs, movies..., buys its products...etc. I doubt you even speak the language of the people of which culture you claim to know.

The issues you express with me seem to begin and end with "you don't understand" delivered in a slightly nasty tone.

- Blunt, not nasty. In my book, "ignorant" is not an insult. It's just a fact. If I told you you don't know physics, or don't know Arabic, would you think I was nasty?!

There is a ton of arrogance in that sort of statement.

- There isn't. Have you ever seen me argue Christianity? Biology?... I don't argue things I am not qualified for.

Forget typical "you don't know how much I know" the arrogance from you is staggering for a different reason.

- On the contrary. I am perhaps the only person here who doesn't speak from personal opinion about religious matters. I know my place, & recognise I am not yet qualified to express my own opinions. All I ever do here is transmit what I was taught by scholars.

The thing is, I DON'T need to know more about the culture or religion or the people to tell you exactly how wrong crucifixion a teen is.

- Firstly, "wrong" based on whose standards?! Secondly, what does that have to do with culture or religion?! Your stance is plainly incoherent.

I don't need to know more about Islam to say that small arguments over if the Koran says not to kill "people of the book" is insidious, it is.

- You have no clue what the Qur'an says, or what the "people of the book" are, or anything in between. Your position is manifestly delusional.
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Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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TBR
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9/22/2015 5:40:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Lets run through some of this Yassine. There are points I would like to reply to in several sub-threads.

- I welcome any fruitful dialogue.

Yup. We are the worlds bully. We have done terrible things. Difference is, I stand up, say so, and want it to STOP.

- & they don't?! This just proves that you have little to no awareness of how people live & what they aspire in countries other than yours. Most regimes in muslim majority countries are dictatorships supported & funded by the US & its allies. & much of the injustice & tyranny brought onto these nations is done by these regimes with US blessings. That aside from all the killing, pillaging, invasions, plundering, chaos & civil wars the US & its allies are responsible for.
Well, most of that was pointed at the problems with America. I have said I agree generally with your assessment of American foreign policy in the region. However, the main point I disagree with. I said I say when my country is wrong, I do it all the time. Here you are attempting to deflect the blame. You responded to another user about the complexity of the situation - providing cover. That, to me, is an issue.


I know enough to say what I feel about it.

- I am pretty sure you know near to nothing about it.
Yea, yea. Just keep banging that drum. It is so dull.


How about crucifixion of a teen? If that were happening in my country you better believe that I would pissed about it, and talking non-stop.

- First of all, you're bringing up an example of political aspect, unrelated to the actual Legal System. Second of all, judgement based on ignorance can never be deemed sound! I can as easily criticise US Legal System even if I knew next to nothing about it. So what?! What does that make me? An ignorant, of course.
Was this teen sentenced within the legal system? Real. I am asking a direct question, I would like the answer please.


I don't have to be immersed in a culture to get an opinion of it.

- You don't speak Arabic. You don't know the history of Arabia. You don't know its religion. You don't know its people. You don't know their costumes... I mean, you can certainly have an opinion about it, but then what?! A lot of people have opinions about things that don't even exist, just watch Jimmy Kimmel in Hollywood Blvrd.
Your bar for having any right to discuss issues is too high. I have, relative to many, a good deal of information on Islam, and some of the countries of the M.E. I don't know Arabic, I am sure many Arabic speakers don't know English, but I realize they have enough information about the US to be hostile. It is utter nonsense that I must have the same level of information as you about Islam or an country to pass the bar from "ignorant" in your mind. You, with some respect, are incredibly arrogant on this point. Dismissive.


You say later "It's not like the world likes America either."

- When I say the world doesn't like America, I am specifically referring to the Foreign Policies of the American government, not americans & their culture. On the contrary, Globalisation is just another word for Americanisation now.
That is not entirely true. You can't speak for all members of any country any more than I can. I can speak for myself, and in this case I am.


I agree, do they know more about the US culture than I do about there culture? I think not.

- Of course everybody knows about American culture more than Americans know about other cultures, by far. Everybody here speaks English, watches American media in all its colours, shows, series, programs, movies..., buys its products...etc. I doubt you even speak the language of the people of which culture you claim to know.
Again with "language". We are talking right now. Do you think that just because it is in English that you have some moral high-ground?


The issues you express with me seem to begin and end with "you don't understand" delivered in a slightly nasty tone.

- Blunt, not nasty. In my book, "ignorant" is not an insult. It's just a fact. If I told you you don't know physics, or don't know Arabic, would you think I was nasty?!
I will take that as presented. Fine.


There is a ton of arrogance in that sort of statement.

- There isn't. Have you ever seen me argue Christianity? Biology?... I don't argue things I am not qualified for.
You are incredibly arrogant. You have been in this discussion. Dismissing anything I may say because I don't speak a language. Assuming information that is unknown to you. Yea, check the attitude a bit. This is not new, I have seen you be dismissive of anyone who disagrees with a blunt statement like "you don't understand". I may understand completely and simply disagree.


Forget typical "you don't know how much I know" the arrogance from you is staggering for a different reason.

- On the contrary. I am perhaps the only person here who doesn't speak from personal opinion about religious matters. I know my place, & recognise I am not yet qualified to express my own opinions. All I ever do here is transmit what I was taught by scholars.
I don't care about your religion. I need to make this clear. The inter-workings of Islam are trivia at best for me. The issues are where the people interfere with society. The exact disagreement between religious scholars, or the authenticity of your interpretation of some bit of religious scripture may hold 10% of my interest. The effect of the religion is responsible for the remaining 90%.


The thing is, I DON'T need to know more about the culture or religion or the people to tell you exactly how wrong crucifixion a teen is.

- Firstly, "wrong" based on whose standards?! Secondly, what does that have to do with culture or religion?! Your stance is plainly incoherent.
Apparently it is YOU standard I must pass. One without reasonable bounds.


I don't need to know more about Islam to say that small arguments over if the Koran says not to kill "people of the book" is insidious, it is.

- You have no clue what the Qur'an says, or what the "people of the book" are, or anything in between. Your position is manifestly delusional.
Still haven't answered the question. That was post 6. See if you can hit it before calling me ignorant again. Bet you cant do it.
Yassine
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9/22/2015 6:07:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 5:40:15 PM, TBR wrote:

Well, most of that was pointed at the problems with America. I have said I agree generally with your assessment of American foreign policy in the region. However, the main point I disagree with. I said I say when my country is wrong, I do it all the time. Here you are attempting to deflect the blame. You responded to another user about the complexity of the situation - providing cover. That, to me, is an issue.

- An informed American criticising American policies is fine. An ignorant Russian criticising American policies is, well, just ignorant. If I criticise Saudi or Iranian policies, that would be fine. But, if an ignorant American comes & criticises Saudi or Iranian policies, then NO, that would not be fine. That's just bigotry & prejudice.

- I am not providing cover, I just don't like bigoted & shallow criticism stemming from delusional self-righteousness.

Yea, yea. Just keep banging that drum. It is so dull.

- It's the drum you yourself brought.

Was this teen sentenced within the legal system? Real. I am asking a direct question, I would like the answer please.

- Political crimes are aberrant instances & thus do not speak for Legal Systems.

Your bar for having any right to discuss issues is too high. I have, relative to many, a good deal of information on Islam,

- *Misinformation. Your stances speak against your claim.

and some of the countries of the M.E.

- Have you ever been to a muslim country?

I don't know Arabic, I am sure many Arabic speakers don't know English, but I realize they have enough information about the US to be hostile.

- Point?

It is utter nonsense that I must have the same level of information as you about Islam or an country to pass the bar from "ignorant" in your mind.

- Not what I said. We are both ignorant about Islam, it's just that I am less ignorant than you are. You don't need to be a physicist to have an opinion about physics. But, you do need to know some basics about physics to have any opinion of worth. In your case, your "knowledge" about Islam is, as far as I can see, not more than misinformations & misconceptions.

You, with some respect, are incredibly arrogant on this point. Dismissive.

- Sure, you can see it that way if you wish. At least I am honest & not hypocrite. I avoid expressing opinions about things I don't know about.

That is not entirely true. You can't speak for all members of any country any more than I can. I can speak for myself, and in this case I am.

- You're what?

Again with "language". We are talking right now. Do you think that just because it is in English that you have some moral high-ground?

- Wat? You lost me here.

You are incredibly arrogant. You have been in this discussion. Dismissing anything I may say because I don't speak a language.

- You claimed to know a culture, while knowing nothing about its elements!

Assuming information that is unknown to you. Yea, check the attitude a bit. This is not new, I have seen you be dismissive of anyone who disagrees with a blunt statement like "you don't understand". I may understand completely and simply disagree.

- Of course, my stance is strait-forward. I don't argue about a subject if either I am or my opponent is ignorant about it. You won't see me dismiss Christians when they speak of their religion. You won't see me dismiss those familiar with biology when they speak about Evolution for instance. Westerners are so used to have an opinion on everything, when they are asked to abstain until they get informed first, they get offended! LoL!

I don't care about your religion. I need to make this clear. The inter-workings of Islam are trivia at best for me. The issues are where the people interfere with society. The exact disagreement between religious scholars, or the authenticity of your interpretation of some bit of religious scripture may hold 10% of my interest. The effect of the religion is responsible for the remaining 90%.

- As I said before. You hold an incoherent position. Back to the analogy, Bob is only interested in the effects Astronomy has on him, or so he thinks. In reality, he meant to be interested in the effects of Astrology. But, since he doesn't know the "inner-workings" of either, he really can't make the difference!

Apparently it is YOU standard I must pass. One without reasonable bounds.

- No really. You're just being supremely stubborn. You refuse to inquire & learn even very basic stuff before you make any judgement. & then, you proclaim yourself to be on reasonable ground. If this is not delusional, I don't know what is.

Still haven't answered the question. That was post 6. See if you can hit it before calling me ignorant again. Bet you cant do it.

- What question again?
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TBR
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9/22/2015 6:26:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Well, most of that was pointed at the problems with America. I have said I agree generally with your assessment of American foreign policy in the region. However, the main point I disagree with. I said I say when my country is wrong, I do it all the time. Here you are attempting to deflect the blame. You responded to another user about the complexity of the situation - providing cover. That, to me, is an issue.

- An informed American criticising American policies is fine. An ignorant Russian criticising American policies is, well, just ignorant. If I criticise Saudi or Iranian policies, that would be fine. But, if an ignorant American comes & criticises Saudi or Iranian policies, then NO, that would not be fine. That's just bigotry & prejudice.
What? So, you want to justify the crucifixion of a teen - citing, again, my ignorance of the situation. OK....


- I am not providing cover, I just don't like bigoted & shallow criticism stemming from delusional self-righteousness.

Yea, yea. Just keep banging that drum. It is so dull.

- It's the drum you yourself brought.
Right them. Just try to keep rhythm please.


Was this teen sentenced within the legal system? Real. I am asking a direct question, I would like the answer please.

- Political crimes are aberrant instances & thus do not speak for Legal Systems.
What a dodge! Was he or was he NOT tried?


Your bar for having any right to discuss issues is too high. I have, relative to many, a good deal of information on Islam,

- *Misinformation. Your stances speak against your claim.

and some of the countries of the M.E.

- Have you ever been to a muslim country?

I don't know Arabic, I am sure many Arabic speakers don't know English, but I realize they have enough information about the US to be hostile.

- Point?
The point is - again and again - I don't need to know everything you do about Islam, or a predominantly Muslim country to say crucifixion of a teen is not a good reflection of that society's values.


It is utter nonsense that I must have the same level of information as you about Islam or an country to pass the bar from "ignorant" in your mind.

- Not what I said. We are both ignorant about Islam, it's just that I am less ignorant than you are. You don't need to be a physicist to have an opinion about physics. But, you do need to know some basics about physics to have any opinion of worth. In your case, your "knowledge" about Islam is, as far as I can see, not more than misinformations & misconceptions.
Lets say for argument sake that I know more about Islam than the average non-Muslim. Exactly how much more do I need to learn for you to accept that I have an opinion on how the religion effects ME!


You, with some respect, are incredibly arrogant on this point. Dismissive.

- Sure, you can see it that way if you wish. At least I am honest & not hypocrite. I avoid expressing opinions about things I don't know about.

That is not entirely true. You can't speak for all members of any country any more than I can. I can speak for myself, and in this case I am.

- You're what?
Speaking for myself. Saying the legal system of this country is very messed up.


Again with "language". We are talking right now. Do you think that just because it is in English that you have some moral high-ground?

- Wat? You lost me here.
Your point seems to be that I must know Islam. I must know Arabic. I must know a list (one that you can't present) of things before I have any say. I disagree. You and I are conversing right now.


You are incredibly arrogant. You have been in this discussion. Dismissing anything I may say because I don't speak a language.

- You claimed to know a culture, while knowing nothing about its elements!
If you want to split some hairs, fine. What I know of the culture and legal system I find absolutely abhorrent. What I know of the religion of Islam I find as comical as Christianity, with the added kicker of it causing me and those around me with increased discomfort.



Assuming information that is unknown to you. Yea, check the attitude a bit. This is not new, I have seen you be dismissive of anyone who disagrees with a blunt statement like "you don't understand". I may understand completely and simply disagree.

- Of course, my stance is strait-forward. I don't argue about a subject if either I am or my opponent is ignorant about it. You won't see me dismiss Christians when they speak of their religion. You won't see me dismiss those familiar with biology when they speak about Evolution for instance. Westerners are so used to have an opinion on everything, when they are asked to abstain until they get informed first, they get offended! LoL!

I don't care about your religion. I need to make this clear. The inter-workings of Islam are trivia at best for me. The issues are where the people interfere with society. The exact disagreement between religious scholars, or the authenticity of your interpretation of some bit of religious scripture may hold 10% of my interest. The effect of the religion is responsible for the remaining 90%.

- As I said before. You hold an incoherent position. Back to the analogy, Bob is only interested in the effects Astronomy has on him, or so he thinks. In reality, he meant to be interested in the effects of Astrology. But, since he doesn't know the "inner-workings" of either, he really can't make the difference!
Bob bob... The analogy is not as useful as you think. Unless you are saying I am confusing the word "Islam" with something completely different? Like I am saying Islam when I mean to say Scientology?


Apparently it is YOU standard I must pass. One without reasonable bounds.

- No really. You're just being supremely stubborn. You refuse to inquire & learn even very basic stuff before you make any judgement. & then, you proclaim yourself to be on reasonable ground. If this is not delusional, I don't know what is.
I am way past "basic" on Islam, and I think you should stop using this arbitrary bar. I am very fair to the religion of Islam. I have no direct hate for it, I have disdain for how some its followers interfere with my enjoyment of MY life.


Still haven't answered the question. That was post 6. See if you can hit it before calling me ignorant again. Bet you cant do it.

- What question again?

That is a mix-up. Question is on the other thread we are going back and forth on. The threading on this forum is just so hard to keep a good conversation going.
Yassine
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9/22/2015 9:21:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 6:26:07 PM, TBR wrote:

What? So, you want to justify the crucifixion of a teen - citing, again, my ignorance of the situation. OK....

- Obvious strawman is obvious. My point was about the difference between a concerned individual & a bigot. & I would rather defend governments like Saudi against a bigot, than put myself in a position of agreement with him.

What a dodge! Was he or was he NOT tried?

- Again, strawman. This contention is irrelevant to your argument. Why not just admit that you really don't know what you're talking about. Nobody says you have to know every legal system in the world!

The point is - again and again - I don't need to know everything you do about Islam, or a predominantly Muslim country to say crucifixion of a teen is not a good reflection of that society's values.

- I don't need to know everything about US Law to know that assassination is not a good reflection of the American society.

Lets say for argument sake that I know more about Islam than the average non-Muslim. Exactly how much more do I need to learn for you to accept that I have an opinion on how the religion effects ME!

- You just need to know. If you wanna have an opinion about Prayers in Islam, you'd need to know about Prayers in Islam, otherwise your opinion is worthless. Similarly for any other topic in Islam. You, on the other hand, do not know. Almost everything you've spouted about Islam has been wrong!

- It's really just vey simple & basic reasoning, know => judge ; don't know => can't judge.

Speaking for myself. Saying the legal system of this country is very messed up.

- & since you don't know the Legal System of the said country, your opinion is worth as much as any random combination of words.

Your point seems to be that I must know Islam. I must know Arabic. I must know a list (one that you can't present) of things before I have any say. I disagree. You and I are conversing right now.

- I am saying, you should inquire about & learn things you don't know, which you seem too arrogant to admit.

If you want to split some hairs, fine. What I know of the culture and legal system I find absolutely abhorrent. What I know of the religion of Islam I find as comical as Christianity, with the added kicker of it causing me and those around me with increased discomfort.

- Blahblahblah... Anybody can make claims. & since you're ignorant of the subject in question, your opinion about it is equally ignorant.

Bob bob... The analogy is not as useful as you think. Unless you are saying I am confusing the word "Islam" with something completely different? Like I am saying Islam when I mean to say Scientology?

- Bob isn't confusing Astrology with Astronomy, he is a literate & can differentiate between the spelling of the two words. Bob is confused about the content of these of Astronomy, like you're confused about the content of Islam.

I am way past "basic" on Islam, and I think you should stop using this arbitrary bar.

- Trust me, you don't even know the basics of the basics. More importantly, you are misinformed, which is even worse.

I am very fair to the religion of Islam. I have no direct hate for it, I have disdain for how some its followers interfere with my enjoyment of MY life.

- Well, we aren't talking about Islam anymore aren't we! There are about 1.7 billions muslims in the World. Given that they are all human beings, a sizeable amount of them are criminals, killers, rapists, robbers... the whole charade. So, according to you, some of its followers commit crimes, therefore, Islam is to blame. Beautiful! Just beautiful!
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9/22/2015 9:36:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
What? So, you want to justify the crucifixion of a teen - citing, again, my ignorance of the situation. OK....

- Obvious strawman is obvious. My point was about the difference between a concerned individual & a bigot. & I would rather defend governments like Saudi against a bigot, than put myself in a position of agreement with him.
OK. So I am a bigot, and you feel justified defending this insane punishment because of my bigotry. Fine.


What a dodge! Was he or was he NOT tried?

- Again, strawman. This contention is irrelevant to your argument. Why not just admit that you really don't know what you're talking about. Nobody says you have to know every legal system in the world!
Its not irrelevant to me. Its not irrelevant to the topic. Just saying things does not make them so. I don't know every legal system, but I know that a 17 yo kid is being punished by crucifixion. That is barbaric, and I am saying so. You are dodging in every way possible. Just say it. It is a crazy punishment.


The point is - again and again - I don't need to know everything you do about Islam, or a predominantly Muslim country to say crucifixion of a teen is not a good reflection of that society's values.

- I don't need to know everything about US Law to know that assassination is not a good reflection of the American society.
No, its not. When have I defended assassination? I don't. You are defending the punishment given this kid. Dodge or deflect. This seems like the argument you have.


Lets say for argument sake that I know more about Islam than the average non-Muslim. Exactly how much more do I need to learn for you to accept that I have an opinion on how the religion effects ME!

- You just need to know. If you wanna have an opinion about Prayers in Islam, you'd need to know about Prayers in Islam, otherwise your opinion is worthless. Similarly for any other topic in Islam. You, on the other hand, do not know. Almost everything you've spouted about Islam has been wrong!
My opinion is as valid as your opinion. Just stop digging this hole for yourself. You are not the arbitrator of MY opinions of a religion. I don't have to pass your test.


- It's really just vey simple & basic reasoning, know => judge ; don't know => can't judge.

Speaking for myself. Saying the legal system of this country is very messed up.

- & since you don't know the Legal System of the said country, your opinion is worth as much as any random combination of words.
See above.


Your point seems to be that I must know Islam. I must know Arabic. I must know a list (one that you can't present) of things before I have any say. I disagree. You and I are conversing right now.

- I am saying, you should inquire about & learn things you don't know, which you seem too arrogant to admit.

If you want to split some hairs, fine. What I know of the culture and legal system I find absolutely abhorrent. What I know of the religion of Islam I find as comical as Christianity, with the added kicker of it causing me and those around me with increased discomfort.

- Blahblahblah... Anybody can make claims. & since you're ignorant of the subject in question, your opinion about it is equally ignorant.
Ignorant is becoming your mantra. Bring something new. I have given enough reasons why your assessment of right to an opinion are valid.


Bob bob... The analogy is not as useful as you think. Unless you are saying I am confusing the word "Islam" with something completely different? Like I am saying Islam when I mean to say Scientology?

- Bob isn't confusing Astrology with Astronomy, he is a literate & can differentiate between the spelling of the two words. Bob is confused about the content of these of Astronomy, like you're confused about the content of Islam.
Not as much as you want to think. This is dull and repetitive. I know more than enough on the subject to have an opinion. I don't submit to the authority of Yassine to give me the OK to criticize anything.


I am way past "basic" on Islam, and I think you should stop using this arbitrary bar.

- Trust me, you don't even know the basics of the basics. More importantly, you are misinformed, which is even worse.
Your arrogance knows little bound. You have NO idea how much I may know on the subject.


I am very fair to the religion of Islam. I have no direct hate for it, I have disdain for how some its followers interfere with my enjoyment of MY life.

- Well, we aren't talking about Islam anymore aren't we! There are about 1.7 billions muslims in the World. Given that they are all human beings, a sizeable amount of them are criminals, killers, rapists, robbers... the whole charade. So, according to you, some of its followers commit crimes, therefore, Islam is to blame. Beautiful! Just beautiful!
So... Some is now all?
ColeTrain
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9/22/2015 9:37:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 12:11:08 PM, YYW wrote:
http://mic.com...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... the Saudi government is cruel, barbaric, uncivilized trash; their actions are as reprehensible as their motives; and it is disgusting that we consider them an ally when they are barely distinguishable from the terrorists we just spent the last decade trying to purge from this earth.

The US ought to promote democracy in the Middle East.
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Yassine
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9/22/2015 9:47:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 9:36:57 PM, TBR wrote:

OK. So I am a bigot, and you feel justified defending this insane punishment because of my bigotry. Fine.

- Don't put words into my mouth. I haven't even argued the punishment! Lol.

Its not irrelevant to me. Its not irrelevant to the topic. Just saying things does not make them so. I don't know every legal system, but I know that a 17 yo kid is being punished by crucifixion. That is barbaric, and I am saying so. You are dodging in every way possible. Just say it. It is a crazy punishment.

- "OK. So I am a bigot".

No, its not. When have I defended assassination? I don't. You are defending the punishment given this kid. Dodge or deflect. This seems like the argument you have.

- You're probably confusing me with someone else.

My opinion is as valid as your opinion. Just stop digging this hole for yourself. You are not the arbitrator of MY opinions of a religion. I don't have to pass your test.

- Sure. & your opinions about physics are as valid as a physicist's. & a 3 years old opinion about religion is as valid as yours. It's all the same. Forget what I said, I misjudged you again.

Ignorant is becoming your mantra. Bring something new. I have given enough reasons why your assessment of right to an opinion are valid.

Not as much as you want to think. This is dull and repetitive. I know more than enough on the subject to have an opinion. I don't submit to the authority of Yassine to give me the OK to criticize anything.

Your arrogance knows little bound. You have NO idea how much I may know on the subject.

So... Some is now all?

- Sorry, I just realised. You're exactly like the rest of them. I'll be ignoring from now on. Bye.
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TBR
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9/22/2015 10:23:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
OK. So I am a bigot, and you feel justified defending this insane punishment because of my bigotry. Fine.

- Don't put words into my mouth. I haven't even argued the punishment! Lol.
Right. You blast past it to call me ignorant. You have ducked and dodged, insulted, but not addresses my initial point. The punishment is barbaric.


Its not irrelevant to me. Its not irrelevant to the topic. Just saying things does not make them so. I don't know every legal system, but I know that a 17 yo kid is being punished by crucifixion. That is barbaric, and I am saying so. You are dodging in every way possible. Just say it. It is a crazy punishment.

- "OK. So I am a bigot".
What?


No, its not. When have I defended assassination? I don't. You are defending the punishment given this kid. Dodge or deflect. This seems like the argument you have.

- You're probably confusing me with someone else.
Wait. Want me to go back to where you said you were defending a Muslim country from bigots like me?


My opinion is as valid as your opinion. Just stop digging this hole for yourself. You are not the arbitrator of MY opinions of a religion. I don't have to pass your test.

- Sure. & your opinions about physics are as valid as a physicist's. & a 3 years old opinion about religion is as valid as yours. It's all the same. Forget what I said, I misjudged you again.
Insults with little real argument.


Ignorant is becoming your mantra. Bring something new. I have given enough reasons why your assessment of right to an opinion are valid.

Not as much as you want to think. This is dull and repetitive. I know more than enough on the subject to have an opinion. I don't submit to the authority of Yassine to give me the OK to criticize anything.

Your arrogance knows little bound. You have NO idea how much I may know on the subject.

So... Some is now all?

- Sorry, I just realised. You're exactly like the rest of them. I'll be ignoring from now on. Bye.

Bye
bsh1
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9/22/2015 10:24:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yeah...the Saudi government is Medieval...and that is absolutely deplorable.
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TBR
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9/22/2015 10:27:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 10:24:14 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Yeah...the Saudi government is Medieval...and that is absolutely deplorable.

Just slightly before medieval.
bsh1
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9/22/2015 10:27:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 10:27:21 PM, TBR wrote:
At 9/22/2015 10:24:14 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Yeah...the Saudi government is Medieval...and that is absolutely deplorable.

Just slightly before medieval.

I would laugh at that observation, but it's too sad...
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Greyparrot
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9/22/2015 11:25:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/22/2015 6:00:59 AM, Yassine wrote:

- It's not like the world likes America either.

As long as the world's governments treat the US like idiots, that's a predictable outcome.