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Death Penalty

annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/19/2010 8:13:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
For some reason, one of the things I have noticed that a lot of users agree on is the death penalty. Now, I see this as one of the most unethical punishments that America has ever allowed through legislation. It's expensive and dehumanizing while sending one of the most idiotic messages to society: We will kill you if you kill someone because killing is wrong.

Seriously? Since 1976, Texas has used the death penalty 446 times. Virginia has used it 103 times. And Oklahoma 91 times. Overall, 1,182 people have been killed nationally by using the death penalty.

If you are Pro-Death Penalty, why do you support it? And if you are Con, like me, please share your opinions as well.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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9/19/2010 8:17:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:13:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
For some reason, one of the things I have noticed that a lot of users agree on is the death penalty.

really? i was under the impression that it had little serious support. i guess i should pay more attention.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/19/2010 8:18:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:17:52 PM, belle wrote:
At 9/19/2010 8:13:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
For some reason, one of the things I have noticed that a lot of users agree on is the death penalty.

really? i was under the impression that it had little serious support. i guess i should pay more attention.

Maybe it's just the people I talk with... -___-

Are there any Pro-Death Penalty people willing to say why?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Atheism
Posts: 2,033
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9/19/2010 8:20:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:13:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
"Overall, 1,182 people have been killed nationally by using the death penalty."
I wonder:How many people have been wrongfully given the death penalty.
I miss the old members.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/19/2010 8:20:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:20:29 PM, Atheism wrote:
At 9/19/2010 8:13:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
"Overall, 1,182 people have been killed nationally by using the death penalty."
I wonder:How many people have been wrongfully given the death penalty.

All of them.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/19/2010 8:26:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It's my view that criminals are just as much victims and anyone else. No one should be held entirely responsible for their own actions since we are all products of our environment and our biology by no fault of our own. Criminals should be treated, not punished.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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9/19/2010 8:29:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I support the concept, not the current system as it is in America. This is because there are a lot of people that have shown society that it is better off without them.

I also don't like supporting the continuing life of a criminal through taxes.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/19/2010 8:30:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:20:52 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 9/19/2010 8:20:29 PM, Atheism wrote:
At 9/19/2010 8:13:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
"Overall, 1,182 people have been killed nationally by using the death penalty."
I wonder:How many people have been wrongfully given the death penalty.

All of them.

So a serial killer who raped and kill 50 women shouldn't be given the death penalty? It's clear that people like that are the scum of society and have no hope of rehabilitation.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/19/2010 8:31:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:26:23 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It's my view that criminals are just as much victims and anyone else. No one should be held entirely responsible for their own actions since we are all products of our environment and our biology by no fault of our own. Criminals should be treated, not punished.

Non-sequitur.
Korashk
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9/19/2010 8:31:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:26:23 PM, FREEDO wrote:
No one should be held entirely responsible for their own actions since we are all products of our environment and our biology by no fault of our own.

Defend this statement, because as it stands it is the most retarded thing I've ever heard.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/19/2010 8:32:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:13:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
For some reason, one of the things I have noticed that a lot of users agree on is the death penalty. Now, I see this as one of the most unethical punishments that America has ever allowed through legislation. It's expensive and dehumanizing while sending one of the most idiotic messages to society: We will kill you if you kill someone because killing is wrong.

Seriously? Since 1976, Texas has used the death penalty 446 times. Virginia has used it 103 times. And Oklahoma 91 times. Overall, 1,182 people have been killed nationally by using the death penalty.

If you are Pro-Death Penalty, why do you support it? And if you are Con, like me, please share your opinions as well.

I actually flux daily, tho I don't change my official stance daily. Thats how I am on almost everything. Probably cause I have multiple personalities, multiple opinions, and multiple beliefs. And they all tend to be pretty strong.
Averaging in all my veiws I conclude:

Society is better off without certain people. There is no place for criminals and if you let them just stay in prison, they will cost more [under the system I suggest. I realize society is much more humane to such things as murderers and rapists who were not humane to their victims]
I also believe that killing is wrong. No one should have the right to take anothers life becaue it cannot be gotten back. If killing is needed because certain people need to be gotten rid of, or for food <lol 2 in one shot ^_^> then ethical ways are a must.
I also believe in a system close to the way that Australia was formed with the whole putting criminals on an island with little hope of survival but no real intervening from anyone. No sending food, weapons etc. That raises the possibility of mating which makes me conclude two large man made islands should be formed that segragates the sexes. Possibly split up Antarctica where its at least 50 miles from itself at any one point and send them there.
I also believe that we should do medical research on criminals and human volunteers.
Or that their eyes, hands feet, <d*ck if applicable>, nose and tongue should all be removed and should be forced to have a tattoo on the face with the offense <murderer/rapist, maybe child rapist if the person raped is not in yet in double digit age range>

So yeah conflicting veiws, but I tend to just say that death penalty should exist and should be simple and non-expensive. Simply tying them up to a tree with no way of escaping and let them starve, shoot them, hang, maye drown or set on fire. I don't see any of those costing more than $20, and rope can be re-used :)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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9/19/2010 8:32:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:26:23 PM, FREEDO wrote:
It's my view that criminals are just as much victims and anyone else. No one should be held entirely responsible for their own actions since we are all products of our environment and our biology by no fault of our own. Criminals should be treated, not punished.

I agree to a point, but there is certainly a degree of personal responsibility that those that perpetrate these crimes have to take, and in some cases, that is larger than others.

For example, if you're a drug addict and get caught with hard drugs, or even stealing because you have no other source of income, then the problem can be solved through environmental changes - helping you get off drugs, get a viable job, support, etc.

But, if you're a pimp who abuses women, or just an abuser overall, then there's a lot more personal responsibility to be taken for those actions, because they're situations you personally can take charge of to change without that much support.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/19/2010 8:34:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Criminal=rapist/murder in the above. No other crimes should result in any of said actions.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/19/2010 8:37:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:34:58 PM, lovelife wrote:
Criminal=rapist/murder in the above. No other crimes should result in any of said actions.

Well I gave my serial killer example on the previous page. People like that are certainly deserving of the death penalty.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/19/2010 8:37:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:30:23 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/19/2010 8:20:52 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 9/19/2010 8:20:29 PM, Atheism wrote:
At 9/19/2010 8:13:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
"Overall, 1,182 people have been killed nationally by using the death penalty."
I wonder:How many people have been wrongfully given the death penalty.

All of them.

So a serial killer who raped and kill 50 women shouldn't be given the death penalty? It's clear that people like that are the scum of society and have no hope of rehabilitation.

It's economically draining to a country in such debt. And for someone who speaks about morality so much, how could you think "an eye for an eye" type of punishment is acceptable? You kill someone because they killed someone else? They're immediately worthless to you? Let me ask you this... Could you flip the switch? Or inject the poison? It's against my principles to kill someone; and I'll never support someone else, especially a government, killing someone.

And how do you know who can be rehabilitated and who can't? What about the 8th Amendment? Or those who might be innocent? You're pro-life for abortion.... and yet you support the killing of someone?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/19/2010 8:39:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Why is killing someone a better punishment than life imprisonment? That's absurd.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/19/2010 8:40:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:37:53 PM, annhasle wrote:

And how do you know who can be rehabilitated and who can't? What about the 8th Amendment? Or those who might be innocent? You're pro-life for abortion.... and yet you support the killing of someone?

Well to be fair, my views on abortion aren't really based on whether the fetus is alive or not. Just ask Lovelife. I think It was her I argued with about abortion a few days ago. Besides, for criminal justice I do firmly believe in the "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth concept".
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/19/2010 8:41:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:39:43 PM, annhasle wrote:
Why is killing someone a better punishment than life imprisonment? That's absurd.

Ultimately I think criminals should be subject to hard labour instead, but then I might get criticized for supposably supporting slavery...
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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9/19/2010 8:43:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It comes down, really, to how much power you believe the state should have in regards to civil law and criminal punishment.

I'm of the position that, well, I don't know if I really want the state to have a legal obligation to kill me.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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9/19/2010 8:44:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:37:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
It's economically draining to a country in such debt. And for someone who speaks about morality so much, how could you think "an eye for an eye" type of punishment is acceptable? You kill someone because they killed someone else?

Not exactly, the death penalty is about killing those that murder others. Not killing those that kill.

They're immediately worthless to you?

Proven murderers that killed for reasons other than eye for an eye, yep.

Let me ask you this... Could you flip the switch? Or inject the poison?

With a smile on my face.

And how do you know who can be rehabilitated and who can't?

Don't care.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/19/2010 8:48:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:40:39 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/19/2010 8:37:53 PM, annhasle wrote:

And how do you know who can be rehabilitated and who can't? What about the 8th Amendment? Or those who might be innocent? You're pro-life for abortion.... and yet you support the killing of someone?

Well to be fair, my views on abortion aren't really based on whether the fetus is alive or not. Just ask Lovelife. I think It was her I argued with about abortion a few days ago. Besides, for criminal justice I do firmly believe in the "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth concept".

I'm not going to quote Gandhi but I literally think that "Eye for an eye" policy is one of the stupidest things EVER ENFORCED.

Why? The government is trying to enforce a standard of living that is free from social menaces. Now, we have many laws that dictate what can and cannot happen based upon morals. Let's think of this logically for a second. If you're trying to show someone that killing is bad... would you think killing someone else would be good proof? If there's a little kid that asks you if killing someone is bad, you'd answer (most likely) "Yes." If they ask why, you might reply, "It's one of the rules we live by. It's a wrong thing to do." So, why is the same government that is enforcing such a moral and legal standard... killing it's citizens who don't follow it?

Now, how about those who are religious? "Thou shall not kill" seems pretty cut and dry to me. NO KILLING. And yet many bible-thumpers are Pro-Death Penalty. Hell, even in the Bible there's stoning and the like. How is that justified? It's inhumane. It's unethical. It's repulsive. It's barbaric. I could go on....
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/19/2010 8:49:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:40:39 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/19/2010 8:37:53 PM, annhasle wrote:

And how do you know who can be rehabilitated and who can't? What about the 8th Amendment? Or those who might be innocent? You're pro-life for abortion.... and yet you support the killing of someone?

Well to be fair, my views on abortion aren't really based on whether the fetus is alive or not. Just ask Lovelife. I think It was her I argued with about abortion a few days ago. Besides, for criminal justice I do firmly believe in the "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth concept".

Your abortion veiws are way more absurd than saving life, okay.

An eye for an eye only really works in certain situations tho. If you see someone killing someone and you kill them without peope knowing why, you will most likely be killed, by someone doing the same <so I get the deal with the "makes the whole world blind>
With the government or at least some form of jury system in which people know why the person is being killed or whatever at least they don't have a fallback excuse for in turn killing that person. However I don't believe the government should interfere with vigilantees that can back up their claims of helping by killing the murderers.
Just expanding on that cause I know it will be attacked, and wanted them to see my veiw on such things too, since yours is most likely absurd lol :)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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9/19/2010 8:50:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I suppose the death penalty, but I think it is used very poorly in the US.
Some people deserve to be put to death.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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9/19/2010 8:51:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:50:38 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I suppose the death penalty, but I think it is used very poorly in the US.
Some people deserve to be put to death.

Don't leave us in suspense.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/19/2010 8:52:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The mind-set of "giving people what they deserve" is absurd and really just one's emotional expression of vengeance.

A case can certainly be made for punishment. But when punishment achieves nothing except "giving people what they deserve" then it is entirely pointless and even counter-productive.

Turning criminals in to slaves to pay off their crime isn't something I adhere to but at least it actually makes sense.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/19/2010 8:52:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Officially, I'm undecided on the death penalty so I'm just throwing scenarios out there as to why it could be acceptable. I pretty much think it's the easy way out. Criminals are the scum of society and should be treated as such. As I said before, they should do hard labour. In many cases, criminals in prison have more rights and luxuries than homeless people. That's not justice. If a criminal is sentenced they should be expected to do work to re-pay their debt to society. Sure, they can have some leisure time, but much less than what they have now.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/19/2010 8:53:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:44:00 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 9/19/2010 8:37:53 PM, annhasle wrote:
It's economically draining to a country in such debt. And for someone who speaks about morality so much, how could you think "an eye for an eye" type of punishment is acceptable? You kill someone because they killed someone else?

Not exactly, the death penalty is about killing those that murder others. Not killing those that kill.

Those are different... How?

They're immediately worthless to you?

Proven murderers that killed for reasons other than eye for an eye, yep.

Now, I can see why you might think they're worthless. Why can't you just throw them in a cell for the rest of their natural life? Why do you have to inject poison in them to prove a point? A point that contradicts itself!

Let me ask you this... Could you flip the switch? Or inject the poison?

With a smile on my face.

That's sick.

And how do you know who can be rehabilitated and who can't?

Don't care.

That's also sick.

Can you justify why you could kill someone else? Just because they killed someone else is really your reason? If you injected poison into the arm of a murderer, you'd be no different in my mind. Both of you would be comfortable with taking a human life, showing no regret and thinking that it's fine. Wow.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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9/19/2010 8:54:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:50:38 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I suppose the death penalty, but I think it is used very poorly in the US.
Some people deserve to be put to death.

Let me guess... murderers?

So those who show no respect to human life, get no respect for theirs? This is pathetic....
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
lovelife
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9/19/2010 8:57:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You steal one's right and you loose equal right. I do have to aagree with hard labour for rapists tho with the money going to the victim.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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9/19/2010 9:00:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/19/2010 8:52:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The mind-set of "giving people what they deserve" is absurd and really just one's emotional expression of vengeance.

Isn't your morality based on pleasure-pain preferences (the mental version of which is your emotional mechanism)?

A case can certainly be made for punishment. But when punishment achieves nothing except "giving people what they deserve" then it is entirely pointless and even counter-productive.

Counter-productive to what?

Turning criminals in to slaves to pay off their crime isn't something I adhere to but at least it actually makes sense.

If it makes sense, why wouldn't you adhere to it?