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Democratic Debate, Jim Webb demonized

Objectivity
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10/18/2015 3:04:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It sincerely angers me that while Hillary Clinton's answer on who she was most proud to have her enemy was a divisive one (the NRA, health insurance companies, republicans), Jim Webb has been chastised in the media for saying he was proud to have killed a Vietnamese soldier who was trying to kill him and his comrade with a grenade. What are other democrats thoughts on this?
thett3
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10/18/2015 3:07:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If a candidate said that at a Republican debate, they would've gotten a standing ovation likely lasting several minutes. I'm not exactly surprised though. Liberalism isn't exactly known for in-group loyalty. Quite the opposite in fact:

"They offered some other scenarios too, about collateral damage in military situations, for instance, and found similar differences: Conservatives accepted collateral damage more easily if the dead were Iraqis than if they were Americans, while liberals accepted civilian deaths more readily if the dead were Americans rather than Iraqis." http://www.wired.com...
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bsh1
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10/18/2015 3:25:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I thought it was a bit wierd to answer as he did...but I didn't think it was inappropriate or unacceptable or anything.
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GeoLaureate8
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10/18/2015 7:21:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Jim Webb isn"t just a veteran, he"s a hero. The Democratic Party should regard him as nothing less, yet he is relegated to the side of the stage and then criticized and mocked for relaying his experiences serving this country. It"s despicable.
...
[Jim's son writes:] 'Yes, the man who threw the grenade isn"t around anymore, but more importantly the man who my Father shielded with his own body lived to see another day. As a Marine and as a leader, that is the important part.'"

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imabench
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10/18/2015 3:40:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 3:04:01 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It sincerely angers me that while Hillary Clinton's answer on who she was most proud to have her enemy was a divisive one (the NRA, health insurance companies, republicans), Jim Webb has been chastised in the media for saying he was proud to have killed a Vietnamese soldier who was trying to kill him and his comrade with a grenade. What are other democrats thoughts on this?

He didn't say he proudly killed a soldier, he said that the enemy he was most proud to make was the soldier who threw a grenade at him.

It was a weird answer to the question that was asked because Jim Webb didn't "make" that man an enemy, the man who threw a grenade at Webb already was Webb's enemy long before Webb ever "determined" or chose to make that guy his enemy.

In addition to it being a weird answer, some perceived it that Webb was just bringing up his military record in a cheap tactic to try to get support. I didn't, but some others took it that way
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Wylted
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10/18/2015 9:17:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 3:04:01 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It sincerely angers me that while Hillary Clinton's answer on who she was most proud to have her enemy was a divisive one (the NRA, health insurance companies, republicans), Jim Webb has been chastised in the media for saying he was proud to have killed a Vietnamese soldier who was trying to kill him and his comrade with a grenade. What are other democrats thoughts on this?

Jim Webb was the only candidate to say his enemy was somebody other than an American and is being praised heavily on the right. He'd pull in a lot of Republican votes, and if he won the Democratic nomination, the rAce wouldn't even be close, he'd probably win every single swing state, and even some Republican strongholds
Wylted
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10/18/2015 9:20:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 3:40:50 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/18/2015 3:04:01 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It sincerely angers me that while Hillary Clinton's answer on who she was most proud to have her enemy was a divisive one (the NRA, health insurance companies, republicans), Jim Webb has been chastised in the media for saying he was proud to have killed a Vietnamese soldier who was trying to kill him and his comrade with a grenade. What are other democrats thoughts on this?

He didn't say he proudly killed a soldier, he said that the enemy he was most proud to make was the soldier who threw a grenade at him.

It was a weird answer to the question that was asked because Jim Webb didn't "make" that man an enemy, the man who threw a grenade at Webb already was Webb's enemy long before Webb ever "determined" or chose to make that guy his enemy.

In addition to it being a weird answer, some perceived it that Webb was just bringing up his military record in a cheap tactic to try to get support. I didn't, but some others took it that way

It's weird that (some) Democrats would think that, but ignore how Hillary was trying to piggy back off of Obama's reputation.
TBR
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10/18/2015 9:51:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 3:40:50 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/18/2015 3:04:01 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It sincerely angers me that while Hillary Clinton's answer on who she was most proud to have her enemy was a divisive one (the NRA, health insurance companies, republicans), Jim Webb has been chastised in the media for saying he was proud to have killed a Vietnamese soldier who was trying to kill him and his comrade with a grenade. What are other democrats thoughts on this?

He didn't say he proudly killed a soldier, he said that the enemy he was most proud to make was the soldier who threw a grenade at him.

It was a weird answer to the question that was asked because Jim Webb didn't "make" that man an enemy, the man who threw a grenade at Webb already was Webb's enemy long before Webb ever "determined" or chose to make that guy his enemy.

In addition to it being a weird answer, some perceived it that Webb was just bringing up his military record in a cheap tactic to try to get support. I didn't, but some others took it that way

I agree. Well, I agree except the last bit. He was getting in just one more chance to say "he served".

My step-brother married a Japanese woman. My step-father and my step-sister-inlaws-father (long) are friends even though they fought each other.

I don't know... The answer given is no big deal to me, but sure is not great answer.
Objectivity
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10/19/2015 1:46:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 3:40:50 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/18/2015 3:04:01 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It sincerely angers me that while Hillary Clinton's answer on who she was most proud to have her enemy was a divisive one (the NRA, health insurance companies, republicans), Jim Webb has been chastised in the media for saying he was proud to have killed a Vietnamese soldier who was trying to kill him and his comrade with a grenade. What are other democrats thoughts on this?

He didn't say he proudly killed a soldier, he said that the enemy he was most proud to make was the soldier who threw a grenade at him.

They are interchangeable.

It was a weird answer to the question that was asked because Jim Webb didn't "make" that man an enemy, the man who threw a grenade at Webb already was Webb's enemy long before Webb ever "determined" or chose to make that guy his enemy.

You are overthinking it though, he was trying not to give a divisive answer to a question that was supposed to produce one. That is a good thing, and while it might have came off a bit odd, it should be applauded, not frowned upon.

In addition to it being a weird answer, some perceived it that Webb was just bringing up his military record in a cheap tactic to try to get support. I didn't, but some others took it that way

Sure, I can see why some people might think that, but the question naturally was going to produce an answer that involved bragging, whether it be Hillary bragging about making enemies of the NRA, Iran (which she didn't), or Republicans, or Webb bragging about making enemies of a soldier trying to kill his fellow comrade. My issue is that the answer that was seemingly the least divisive and most reasonable was the most criticized. If people weren't petty and focused on the weird smirk he gave, his answer would have been the best, because it was clever to take a divisive question and give an answer that no one can object to., but alas, people did.
Objectivity
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10/19/2015 1:49:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 9:51:37 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/18/2015 3:40:50 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/18/2015 3:04:01 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It sincerely angers me that while Hillary Clinton's answer on who she was most proud to have her enemy was a divisive one (the NRA, health insurance companies, republicans), Jim Webb has been chastised in the media for saying he was proud to have killed a Vietnamese soldier who was trying to kill him and his comrade with a grenade. What are other democrats thoughts on this?

He didn't say he proudly killed a soldier, he said that the enemy he was most proud to make was the soldier who threw a grenade at him.

It was a weird answer to the question that was asked because Jim Webb didn't "make" that man an enemy, the man who threw a grenade at Webb already was Webb's enemy long before Webb ever "determined" or chose to make that guy his enemy.

In addition to it being a weird answer, some perceived it that Webb was just bringing up his military record in a cheap tactic to try to get support. I didn't, but some others took it that way

I agree. Well, I agree except the last bit. He was getting in just one more chance to say "he served".

My step-brother married a Japanese woman. My step-father and my step-sister-inlaws-father (long) are friends even though they fought each other.

Maybe now, but in combat the person trying to kill you or your comrade is an enemy, that is indisputable.

I don't know... The answer given is no big deal to me, but sure is not great answer.
TBR
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10/19/2015 1:53:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 1:49:34 AM, Objectivity wrote:
At 10/18/2015 9:51:37 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/18/2015 3:40:50 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/18/2015 3:04:01 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It sincerely angers me that while Hillary Clinton's answer on who she was most proud to have her enemy was a divisive one (the NRA, health insurance companies, republicans), Jim Webb has been chastised in the media for saying he was proud to have killed a Vietnamese soldier who was trying to kill him and his comrade with a grenade. What are other democrats thoughts on this?

He didn't say he proudly killed a soldier, he said that the enemy he was most proud to make was the soldier who threw a grenade at him.

It was a weird answer to the question that was asked because Jim Webb didn't "make" that man an enemy, the man who threw a grenade at Webb already was Webb's enemy long before Webb ever "determined" or chose to make that guy his enemy.

In addition to it being a weird answer, some perceived it that Webb was just bringing up his military record in a cheap tactic to try to get support. I didn't, but some others took it that way

I agree. Well, I agree except the last bit. He was getting in just one more chance to say "he served".

My step-brother married a Japanese woman. My step-father and my step-sister-inlaws-father (long) are friends even though they fought each other.

Maybe now, but in combat the person trying to kill you or your comrade is an enemy, that is indisputable.

I don't know... The answer given is no big deal to me, but sure is not great answer.

Right, but is that the "proudest" you are? Really?
TBR
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10/19/2015 1:56:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The point of the story is, these guys are family now. Proud of service, but not proud that there was a possibility of them having to kill each other.
Objectivity
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10/19/2015 2:06:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 1:53:34 AM, TBR wrote:
At 10/19/2015 1:49:34 AM, Objectivity wrote:
At 10/18/2015 9:51:37 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/18/2015 3:40:50 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/18/2015 3:04:01 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It sincerely angers me that while Hillary Clinton's answer on who she was most proud to have her enemy was a divisive one (the NRA, health insurance companies, republicans), Jim Webb has been chastised in the media for saying he was proud to have killed a Vietnamese soldier who was trying to kill him and his comrade with a grenade. What are other democrats thoughts on this?

He didn't say he proudly killed a soldier, he said that the enemy he was most proud to make was the soldier who threw a grenade at him.

It was a weird answer to the question that was asked because Jim Webb didn't "make" that man an enemy, the man who threw a grenade at Webb already was Webb's enemy long before Webb ever "determined" or chose to make that guy his enemy.

In addition to it being a weird answer, some perceived it that Webb was just bringing up his military record in a cheap tactic to try to get support. I didn't, but some others took it that way

I agree. Well, I agree except the last bit. He was getting in just one more chance to say "he served".

My step-brother married a Japanese woman. My step-father and my step-sister-inlaws-father (long) are friends even though they fought each other.

Maybe now, but in combat the person trying to kill you or your comrade is an enemy, that is indisputable.

I don't know... The answer given is no big deal to me, but sure is not great answer.

Right, but is that the "proudest" you are? Really?

Do you know the full context behind the story? He earned the Navy Cross because he saved a comrade by shielding him from the blast of a grenade with his own body, and then he proceeded to kill the soldier that threw the grenade. I think as civilians we can't really understand the mentality of a soldier, it is a necessity of war for your enemy to be dehumanized, and I think people taking issue with Webb's answer exemplifies that lack of understanding between civilians and soldiers.
TBR
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10/19/2015 2:19:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 2:06:40 AM, Objectivity wrote:
At 10/19/2015 1:53:34 AM, TBR wrote:
At 10/19/2015 1:49:34 AM, Objectivity wrote:
At 10/18/2015 9:51:37 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/18/2015 3:40:50 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/18/2015 3:04:01 AM, Objectivity wrote:
It sincerely angers me that while Hillary Clinton's answer on who she was most proud to have her enemy was a divisive one (the NRA, health insurance companies, republicans), Jim Webb has been chastised in the media for saying he was proud to have killed a Vietnamese soldier who was trying to kill him and his comrade with a grenade. What are other democrats thoughts on this?

He didn't say he proudly killed a soldier, he said that the enemy he was most proud to make was the soldier who threw a grenade at him.

It was a weird answer to the question that was asked because Jim Webb didn't "make" that man an enemy, the man who threw a grenade at Webb already was Webb's enemy long before Webb ever "determined" or chose to make that guy his enemy.

In addition to it being a weird answer, some perceived it that Webb was just bringing up his military record in a cheap tactic to try to get support. I didn't, but some others took it that way

I agree. Well, I agree except the last bit. He was getting in just one more chance to say "he served".

My step-brother married a Japanese woman. My step-father and my step-sister-inlaws-father (long) are friends even though they fought each other.

Maybe now, but in combat the person trying to kill you or your comrade is an enemy, that is indisputable.

I don't know... The answer given is no big deal to me, but sure is not great answer.

Right, but is that the "proudest" you are? Really?

Do you know the full context behind the story? He earned the Navy Cross because he saved a comrade by shielding him from the blast of a grenade with his own body, and then he proceeded to kill the soldier that threw the grenade. I think as civilians we can't really understand the mentality of a soldier, it is a necessity of war for your enemy to be dehumanized, and I think people taking issue with Webb's answer exemplifies that lack of understanding between civilians and soldiers.

I simply disagree. Before this thread I had little issue with the answer, but it is growing as I think more about it.
no1special
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10/19/2015 3:58:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think it was dumb of her to say Republicans and it might come back to bite her in the general election. I don't think there was anything wrong with Webb's answer.
GeoLaureate8
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10/19/2015 3:31:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hillary Clinton bragged about murdering Gaddafi right after he died in 2011.

"We came, we saw, he died."
-- Hillary Clinton

Gaddafi wasn't even an enemy he was a good leader trying to do the right thing, which meant Obama had to fly a NATO drone and drop a bomb on his head and then have their proxies terrorists brutalize and torture him.

Meanwhile Jim Webb jumped on a grenade to save his fellow man's life.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
imabench
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10/19/2015 3:54:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 3:31:29 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Hillary Clinton bragged about murdering Gaddafi right after he died in 2011.

"We came, we saw, he died."
-- Hillary Clinton

Gaddafi wasn't even an enemy he was a good leader trying to do the right thing, which meant Obama had to fly a NATO drone and drop a bomb on his head and then have their proxies terrorists brutalize and torture him.

Thank you for reminding everyone that you have no f*cking idea what youre talking about

Meanwhile Jim Webb jumped on a grenade to save his fellow man's life.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

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GeoLaureate8
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10/19/2015 5:04:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 3:54:43 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:31:29 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Gaddafi wasn't even an enemy he was a good leader trying to do the right thing, which meant Obama had to fly a NATO drone and drop a bomb on his head and then have their proxies terrorists brutalize and torture him.

Thank you for reminding everyone that you have no f*cking idea what youre talking about

What part of that is not true. You have no rebuttal. You're probably one of the idiots who thinks Libya was a great success, Benghazi was Hillary's signature achievement.

U.S. drone bombed Gaddafi convoy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

"The White House and senior Congressional members deliberately and knowingly pursued a policy that provided material support to terrorist organizations in order to topple a ruler [Muammar Gaddafi] who had been working closely with the West actively to suppress al-Qaeda.'

'Some look at it as treasonous moves,' said Wayne Simmons, a former CIA officer who participated in the commission's research. 'And our men and women had to follow what many purport as, qualify as treasonous moves.'

'Gaddafi wasn't a good guy, but he was being marginalized,' Rear Admiral Kubic recalled. 'Gaddafi actually offered to abdicate' shortly after the beginning of a 2011 rebellion.
...
Gaddafi wanted only two conditions to step down: permission to keep fighting al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), and the lifting of sactions against him, his family, and those loyal to him.

The Obama administration's unwillingness to help broker a peaceful exit for the Libyan strongman, 'led to extensive loss of life.'"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
imabench
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10/19/2015 5:14:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 5:04:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:54:43 PM, imabench wrote:
At 10/19/2015 3:31:29 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Gaddafi wasn't even an enemy he was a good leader trying to do the right thing, which meant Obama had to fly a NATO drone and drop a bomb on his head and then have their proxies terrorists brutalize and torture him.

Thank you for reminding everyone that you have no f*cking idea what youre talking about

What part of that is not true. You have no rebuttal. You're probably one of the idiots who thinks Libya was a great success, Benghazi was Hillary's signature achievement.

U.S. drone bombed Gaddafi convoy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

"The White House and senior Congressional members deliberately and knowingly pursued a policy that provided material support to terrorist organizations in order to topple a ruler [Muammar Gaddafi] who had been working closely with the West actively to suppress al-Qaeda.'

'Some look at it as treasonous moves,' said Wayne Simmons, a former CIA officer who participated in the commission's research. 'And our men and women had to follow what many purport as, qualify as treasonous moves.'

'Gaddafi wasn't a good guy, but he was being marginalized,' Rear Admiral Kubic recalled. 'Gaddafi actually offered to abdicate' shortly after the beginning of a 2011 rebellion.
...
Gaddafi wanted only two conditions to step down: permission to keep fighting al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), and the lifting of sactions against him, his family, and those loyal to him.

The Obama administration's unwillingness to help broker a peaceful exit for the Libyan strongman, 'led to extensive loss of life.'"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk...

Let me go ahead and explicitly highlight the part of your original post that I was referring to so that just you can get it into your empty skull what part of your statement i'm challenging here.

"Gaddafi wasn't even an enemy he was a good leader trying to do the right thing"

^ That is what I was referring to. This was the part of your statement that makes the least amount of sense that is what I was referencing when I labeled you as a person who has no idea what he is talking about. Nice job though on channeling all of your response into literally the only part of your statement I quoted that wasn't even what I was talking about.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
GeoLaureate8
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10/19/2015 6:30:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 5:14:43 PM, imabench wrote:
Let me go ahead and explicitly highlight the part of your original post that I was referring to so that just you can get it into your empty skull what part of your statement i'm challenging here.

"Gaddafi wasn't even an enemy he was a good leader trying to do the right thing"

^ That is what I was referring to. This was the part of your statement that makes the least amount of sense that is what I was referencing when I labeled you as a person who has no idea what he is talking about.

Which I addressed. I showed you that he was trying to kill Al Queda terrorists and defend his country. The Obama regime wouldn't let Gaddafi continue fighting Al Queda even after he agreed to step down. The real reason the U.S. hated Gaddafi was because he demanded payment in gold for Libyan resources instead of unbacked paper fiat U.S. dollars. In fact he supported a gold reserve currency for oil trade.

Nelson Mandela agrees with me that Gaddafi is a good leader. Nelson Mandela says if you don't like Gaddafi you can go jump in a lake.

Libya was the poorest country in Africa before Gaddafi, he turned Libya into the African country with the highest standard of living and prosperity. His rule wasn't up for a vote but his country had a direct democracy. He also helped Mandela fight apartheid in South Africa.

Gaddafi wasn't perfect, by Western standards he was a bad guy, but compared to leaders in the Middle East and Africa or N. Korea, Gaddafi was a saint. And Nelson Mandela was a fan of Gaddafi. You say Mandela is an idiot and wrong.

http://www.info.gov.za...
http://www.globalresearch.ca...
http://english.pravda.ru...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
imabench
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10/19/2015 8:13:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/19/2015 6:30:07 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/19/2015 5:14:43 PM, imabench wrote:
Let me go ahead and explicitly highlight the part of your original post that I was referring to so that just you can get it into your empty skull what part of your statement i'm challenging here.

"Gaddafi wasn't even an enemy he was a good leader trying to do the right thing"

^ That is what I was referring to. This was the part of your statement that makes the least amount of sense that is what I was referencing when I labeled you as a person who has no idea what he is talking about.

Which I addressed. I showed you that he was trying to kill Al Queda terrorists and defend his country.

Except you didnt and he wasnt

The Obama regime wouldn't let Gaddafi continue fighting Al Queda even after he agreed to step down.

Gaddafi wasnt fighting Al Qaeda contrary to what he tried to tell others, Al Qaeda is not spelled with a U, and Gaddafi clearly didnt want to step down from power

The real reason the U.S. hated Gaddafi was because he demanded payment in gold for Libyan resources instead of unbacked paper fiat U.S. dollars.

Except they didnt

Nelson Mandela agrees with me that Gaddafi is a good leader. Nelson Mandela says if you don't like Gaddafi you can go jump in a lake.

Except he doesnt

Libya was the poorest country in Africa before Gaddafi, he turned Libya into the African country with the highest standard of living and prosperity. His rule wasn't up for a vote but his country had a direct democracy.

He routinely rigged elections and Libya benefitted because of oil reserves discovered in the country, which would have made the country richer no matter who was in charge of Libya at the time

He also helped Mandela fight apartheid in South Africa.

Except he didnt

Gaddafi wasn't perfect, by Western standards he was a bad guy,

Yet you still believe that he was a good leader

but compared to leaders in the Middle East and Africa or N. Korea, Gaddafi was a saint. And Nelson Mandela was a fan of Gaddafi. You say Mandela is an idiot and wrong.

No im saying that YOU are an idiot and are wrong. And im fairly certain everyone on this site and God himself would agree with me on this one

http://www.info.gov.za...

Link doesnt work

http://www.globalresearch.ca...

Thats a conspiracy website that gets its news from Russia Today http://rationalwiki.org...

http://english.pravda.ru...

Thats an opinion column....

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info...

That is repeating everything from the same opinion column

Geo next time you drive anywhere I strongly suggest that you drive into oncoming traffic and just do humanity a favor
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015