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How to solve the Israel- Palestine problem

beng100
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10/24/2015 1:11:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's clearly a tough problem to solve. My interpretation of the situation makes me think a fully independent west bank would be the best scenario, with the removal of all israli settlements and the return of all land to Palestinians. I would give Israel full control of Jerusalem and the Gaza strip in return. I would encourage emigration out of the Gaza strip to the west bank through financial incentives. Some of the abandoned israli settlements could be offered to Muslims from the Gaza strip and further homes built. Hamas militants could then be eliminated from the Gaza strip. A fully functioning international Border between Israel and the west bank could be set up. I think this is the best solution for the area and although may cause short term distress for a few will lead to long term peace for the area.
Contra
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10/24/2015 2:03:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's an insightful solution, but I have some concerns...

The Saudis have advocated for a peace solution where most Arab states would accept Israel's right to exist, and in return Israel would return to its borders before the 1967 Six Day War (therefore forfeiting the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights). What if the Palestinians continue to be hostile towards Israel though, and continue to engage in terrorist attacks against Israel? If Israel gives up its territorial claims, it would be pretty difficult to get these back.
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Emilrose
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10/24/2015 2:18:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The main issue there is that the settlements are not *technically* in Palestinian lands--primarily because the lines drawn-up between Israeli and Palestinian territories are *only* U.N Armistice, which were implemented after the Six Day war.

Besides that you haven't really specified exactly what settlements you're referring to, as with many people who comment on them and somehow believe that removing them would be the ultimate solution, which is contradicted by the fact that Israel once offered to dismantle *all* settlements (on the premise that they in return be recognized as an official state) but Palestine refused and declined all further negotiation.
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Dilara
Posts: 661
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10/24/2015 2:44:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
How about we end the illegal occupation and genocide done by Israel?. I don't agree with liberals on a lot of stuff but I agree with them on this.
shalal12
Posts: 303
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10/24/2015 3:07:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:11:26 AM, beng100 wrote:
It's clearly a tough problem to solve. My interpretation of the situation makes me think a fully independent west bank would be the best scenario, with the removal of all israli settlements and the return of all land to Palestinians. I would give Israel full control of Jerusalem and the Gaza strip in return. I would encourage emigration out of the Gaza strip to the west bank through financial incentives. Some of the abandoned israli settlements could be offered to Muslims from the Gaza strip and further homes built. Hamas militants could then be eliminated from the Gaza strip. A fully functioning international Border between Israel and the west bank could be set up. I think this is the best solution for the area and although may cause short term distress for a few will lead to long term peace for the area.
The problem is NOT Israeli-Palestinian problem. In fact, it's Islamic-Zionist problem. Israel is NOT a country it is a Zionist regime and Palestinians are the true owners of the country. At the same time Jerusalem is sacred for all the Muslims and make sure many Muslim countries will not let Israel take it. Zionists are threat to all Middle East, as there is almost no wars here that Israel doesn't have destructive role there.

Zionists have killed thousands of Muslims. In the recent decades, Zionists killed 300 Iranian scientists in different terrors, and no media covered it. Do you think we will be silent for ever?

Israel is a growing cancer in the Middle East, soon it will be removed.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,228
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10/24/2015 3:45:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:11:26 AM, beng100 wrote:
It's clearly a tough problem to solve. My interpretation of the situation makes me think a fully independent west bank would be the best scenario, with the removal of all israli settlements and the return of all land to Palestinians. I would give Israel full control of Jerusalem and the Gaza strip in return. I would encourage emigration out of the Gaza strip to the west bank through financial incentives. Some of the abandoned israli settlements could be offered to Muslims from the Gaza strip and further homes built. Hamas militants could then be eliminated from the Gaza strip. A fully functioning international Border between Israel and the west bank could be set up. I think this is the best solution for the area and although may cause short term distress for a few will lead to long term peace for the area.

Sure, why not? If I'm the grand overlord of Israel, I accept this deal in a second... Although (being the grand overlord of Israel) I don't necessarily care about ownership of Gaza per se', and would just hope that Egypt would finally take back control over it... or someone else entirely can have it... ownership of it is not exactly a major issue here in the grand scheme of things.

Th settlements aren't as much of a sticking point as people like to think. They are rather, a valid strategic elements to the conflict that allows Israel to maintain a buffer zone and greater ability to negotiate in the future. Certainly there are some inconveniences there, but nothing entirely preventative towards a reasonable solution (land swaps are always on the table in any case). In other words, as grand overlord of Israel, I'd uproot every last settlement in a second, if I thought it would make any difference (something I don't believe, nor do many (likely most) Israelis).

Anyways, it's an interesting thought, but there's really no will to do this (as sad as that is). The status quo is perfectly fine with most of the major players, and a major change represents (based on the historical record) too much of a risk for those close to the situation.
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bsh1
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10/24/2015 3:46:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 3:45:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:

Lol...I was wondering how long until you weighed in on this thread ;)
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airmax1227
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10/24/2015 3:48:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 3:46:37 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:45:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:

Lol...I was wondering how long until you weighed in on this thread ;)

I've skipped many Israel threads in the past year or so... this one caught my eye and I have some time tonight to actually post in it... so I figured why not...
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bsh1
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10/24/2015 3:52:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 3:48:36 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:46:37 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:45:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:

Lol...I was wondering how long until you weighed in on this thread ;)

I've skipped many Israel threads in the past year or so... this one caught my eye and I have some time tonight to actually post in it... so I figured why not...

I know you don't post in all of them, but I know it's a subject you're interested in, so I suspected you might.
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airmax1227
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10/24/2015 3:57:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 2:03:08 AM, Contra wrote:
It's an insightful solution, but I have some concerns...

The Saudis have advocated for a peace solution where most Arab states would accept Israel's right to exist...

Gona stop you there... This prerequisite isn't actually something that means anything to anyone on the other side of the offer (for practical purposes per a deal, there are philosophical and diplomatic purposes that I'll touch on later). It's like saying, "Hey Contra, I'll accept your right to exist if you give me $100?" Deal? Of course you'd say no deal (and laugh in my face and walk away), since I don't get to determine your right to exist.

In terms of the security threat this lack accepting of Israel's right to exists, it's also not too relevant, since none of those Arabs countries can actually do anything about Israel's existence - as has been proven several times now.

and in return Israel would return to its borders before the 1967 Six Day War (therefore forfeiting the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights).

And this is why the Saudi Peace plan is a non-starter and no one (at least that shares my school of thought on it) takes it seriously. It's intended to be a non-starter by the very nature of the deal, and anyone who viewed this reasonably or from Israel's perspective should realize why.

In other words, the deal is, "Hey Israel, we'll accept your right to exist and have no beef with you, if you just move back to the strategically weaker position you used to be in... once we have this strategic upper hand, don't worry, we'll be cool, and everything will be just peachy..." I think it should be clear why Israel isn't exactly too enthused with the constant harping on the 67 borders (an intentional misnomer intended to dupe the gullible or uninformed into believing the 67 border were actually borders of any kind and thus having any legal credibility whatsoever - they don't. We can debate the ICC and UNSC interpretations of the 67 border at another time though)

What if the Palestinians continue to be hostile towards Israel though, and continue to engage in terrorist attacks against Israel? If Israel gives up its territorial claims, it would be pretty difficult to get these back.

Yup. Israel should just stick with the status quo then, which is working out pretty well for it aside from the obvious problems - it's at least better than humoring the idea of moving back to less strategic "borders" with absolutely no faith that any good will happen from it.
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airmax1227
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10/24/2015 3:59:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 3:52:14 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:48:36 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:46:37 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:45:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:

Lol...I was wondering how long until you weighed in on this thread ;)

I've skipped many Israel threads in the past year or so... this one caught my eye and I have some time tonight to actually post in it... so I figured why not...

I know you don't post in all of them, but I know it's a subject you're interested in, so I suspected you might.

I don't think I post in even close to a majority of them. I think I post in one like once every 6 months at most. But yeah, it's a topic I have interest in and it's certainly something I can enjoy ranting about.
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bsh1
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10/24/2015 4:00:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 3:59:12 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:52:14 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:48:36 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:46:37 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:45:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:

Lol...I was wondering how long until you weighed in on this thread ;)

I've skipped many Israel threads in the past year or so... this one caught my eye and I have some time tonight to actually post in it... so I figured why not...

I know you don't post in all of them, but I know it's a subject you're interested in, so I suspected you might.

I don't think I post in even close to a majority of them. I think I post in one like once every 6 months at most.

Okay...

But yeah, it's a topic I have interest in and it's certainly something I can enjoy ranting about.

Yeah, I know.
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airmax1227
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10/24/2015 4:06:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 2:18:08 AM, Emilrose wrote:
The main issue there is that the settlements are not *technically* in Palestinian lands--primarily because the lines drawn-up between Israeli and Palestinian territories are *only* U.N Armistice, which were implemented after the Six Day war.

Let's not let reality get in the way of an over simplification of the legal status of borders and the cute narrative behind it.

Besides that you haven't really specified exactly what settlements you're referring to, as with many people who comment on them and somehow believe that removing them would be the ultimate solution, which is contradicted by the fact that Israel once offered to dismantle *all* settlements (on the premise that they in return be recognized as an official state) but Palestine refused and declined all further negotiation.

That, and the fact that the actual forced removal of all Israeli citizens from Gaza wasn't met with good faith or anything particularly useful at all... In fact, as someone very much in favor of that move at the time, I have to admit that since then I have been proven wrong about having that position - not that I think it's worth doing over differently now since it kind of proves the point that simply dismantling settlements and removing Israeli's from any particular area wont necessarily equate to anything productive (not that this reality really makes any difference to the arguments regarding the conflict though - since a return to the 67 border will always magically somehow be the argument made to finally end the conflict etc etc).
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airmax1227
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10/24/2015 4:10:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 2:44:35 AM, Dilara wrote:
How about we end the illegal occupation and genocide done by Israel?.

"Illegal occupation" is a bit more complicated and a more nuanced issue than that. It would take awhile to really get to the crux of that issue, so I'll just let it be. However, genocide is an intentionally false and hyperbolic term, and just a ridiculous assertion. I will formally debate you on whether Israel has committed a genocide any time you like.

I don't agree with liberals on a lot of stuff but I agree with them on this.

I don't think you'll find many reasonable liberal intellectuals stating that Israel has committed (or is committing) genocide, since it's easily proven to be false.
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airmax1227
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10/24/2015 4:33:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 3:07:08 AM, shalal12 wrote:

The problem is NOT Israeli-Palestinian problem.

I happen to agree. I think it's better framed as Israel/Arab, or Western/Arab, or whatever broad terms you'd like that show the conflict is wider than simply Israel versus a group of refugees.

In fact, it's Islamic-Zionist problem.

I suppose we could frame it that way. This goes too far, I think, in framing it specifically as a religious (Islamic) issue versus a nationalistic (Zionism) movement. But this framing of it certainly does capture many of the conflicts aspects.

Israel is NOT a country

It fits every definition of a country (and I will enthusiastically debate you on this), so I'm pretty confident that it is a country and that it is impossible to prove otherwise.

it is a Zionist regime

Well, I guess so to some degree. The results of Zionism (the nationalistic movement of the Jews to form a country) is Israel, so naturally therefore it could be concluded that Israel is a product of Zionism and everything spawning from it is a Zionist element. The juxtaposing of "Country" Versus "Zionist regime" (I realize the latter is suppose to carry some intentionally negative thing to it, though that would have to be proven first to take seriously) though doesn't follow. It can be both, and is to the extent that the idea of a "Zionist regime" means anything at all.

In other words, America is the results of American nationalism. It's a country, though you could spin it similarly and say "America isn't a country it's a result of American nationalism" or whatever. This obviously doesn't make a lot of sense regardless of the semantic intentions behind it... and the same arguments could be extended to any country you happened not to like.

and Palestinians are the true owners of the country.

Which country? Palestine? Country is a word that has actual meaning to it. It means something specific. So while you could say the Arab refugees of the conflict are the true owners of some specific plots of land, they certainly don't have a claim to any specific country - unless you want to extend sovereignty to regional descriptors (as that is what "Palestine" is historically) and if we do that, I could extent that argument to say I am a "western hemispherean" and therefore all claims to the Western Hemisphere infringe on my rights (which are based on nothing in particular) to ownership of whatever in the western hemisphere.

At the same time Jerusalem is sacred for all the Muslims and make sure many Muslim countries will not let Israel take it.

Israel already has it, so that ship has already sailed.

Zionists are threat to all Middle East, as there is almost no wars here that Israel doesn't have destructive role there.

Yeah, a little country in the mid east is really the root cause of all of its problems. I'll grant that Western influence is an issue, but claiming Israel is responsible for or involved in all mid eastern wars is simply false.

Zionists have killed thousands of Muslims. In the recent decades, Zionists killed 300 Iranian scientists in different terrors, and no media covered it.

Killing happens in wars, and that is what is occurring. I'm certainly not going to justify much of what Israel does because I have a problem with much of it, but it's not a one sided deal. One side (Israel) just happens to be more powerful than most of its enemies at the moment.

Do you think we will be silent for ever?

Who is being silent? The worlds opinion of Israel is well known, Arab/Muslim opinion is well known, and it's one of the most publicized conflicts in the history of the world. The lack of victory for the side against Israel isn't media bias or a lack of knowledge about it. It's a simple lack of ability to destroy the country, because Israel and its alliances happen to be more powerful at the moment.

Israel is a growing cancer in the Middle East,

I suppose that opinion is valid, but it's debatable certainly.

soon it will be removed.

And this is what I consider to be one of the major problems with the conflict. The idea that Israel is soon to be destroyed, and just one more step followed by another, or just a simple victory somewhere, somehow, means that Israel will be destroyed and that we all must remain vigilant because that's nearing, simply perpetuates the conflict forever.

Israel isn't going anywhere. The sooner you recognize this, the sooner compromises can be made, and the sooner real peace can be achieved. Otherwise, I guess the status quo works....
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Garbanza
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10/24/2015 5:39:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's so obvious. Give every single Israel or Palestinian full EU or US citizenship in exchange for giving up Israeli citizenship and the right to return to Israel. I bet most people would take it and then, when dust settles from the mass exodus, we can impose a one state solution. Whoever's there at that point can stay and good luck to them (YOU IDIOTS. TAKE THE DEAL.)
airmax1227
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10/24/2015 5:43:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 5:39:49 AM, Garbanza wrote:
It's so obvious. Give every single Israel or Palestinian full EU or US citizenship in exchange for giving up Israeli citizenship and the right to return to Israel. I bet most people would take it and then, when dust settles from the mass exodus, we can impose a one state solution. Whoever's there at that point can stay and good luck to them (YOU IDIOTS. TAKE THE DEAL.)

haha that is certainly an interesting idea... though it might have some flaws - but I like it anyway
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Garbanza
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10/24/2015 5:44:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 5:43:10 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:39:49 AM, Garbanza wrote:
It's so obvious. Give every single Israel or Palestinian full EU or US citizenship in exchange for giving up Israeli citizenship and the right to return to Israel. I bet most people would take it and then, when dust settles from the mass exodus, we can impose a one state solution. Whoever's there at that point can stay and good luck to them (YOU IDIOTS. TAKE THE DEAL.)

haha that is certainly an interesting idea... though it might have some flaws - but I like it anyway

Hi Airmax. :)
airmax1227
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10/24/2015 5:51:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 5:44:08 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:43:10 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:39:49 AM, Garbanza wrote:
It's so obvious. Give every single Israel or Palestinian full EU or US citizenship in exchange for giving up Israeli citizenship and the right to return to Israel. I bet most people would take it and then, when dust settles from the mass exodus, we can impose a one state solution. Whoever's there at that point can stay and good luck to them (YOU IDIOTS. TAKE THE DEAL.)

haha that is certainly an interesting idea... though it might have some flaws - but I like it anyway

Hi Airmax. :)

Hi. :)
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Garbanza
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10/24/2015 5:55:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 5:51:31 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:44:08 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:43:10 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:39:49 AM, Garbanza wrote:
It's so obvious. Give every single Israel or Palestinian full EU or US citizenship in exchange for giving up Israeli citizenship and the right to return to Israel. I bet most people would take it and then, when dust settles from the mass exodus, we can impose a one state solution. Whoever's there at that point can stay and good luck to them (YOU IDIOTS. TAKE THE DEAL.)

haha that is certainly an interesting idea... though it might have some flaws - but I like it anyway

Hi Airmax. :)

Hi. :)

I'm actually not joking. Most people want to leave. They should be able to, and I think the US and EU owe it to the people of the region to hand over a few miliion passports. It really wouldn't be that big a deal to absorb that many people. Suppose the US took 3 million, that's only 60,000 people per state on average. It could happen over 5 years. Gaza would probably empty out entirely, and then it doesn't really matter who owns it.
airmax1227
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10/24/2015 6:14:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 5:55:21 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:51:31 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:44:08 AM, Garbanza wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:43:10 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:39:49 AM, Garbanza wrote:
It's so obvious. Give every single Israel or Palestinian full EU or US citizenship in exchange for giving up Israeli citizenship and the right to return to Israel. I bet most people would take it and then, when dust settles from the mass exodus, we can impose a one state solution. Whoever's there at that point can stay and good luck to them (YOU IDIOTS. TAKE THE DEAL.)

haha that is certainly an interesting idea... though it might have some flaws - but I like it anyway

Hi Airmax. :)

Hi. :)

I'm actually not joking. Most people want to leave.

There's some polling to suggest a minority of Israelis would be interested in moving should the proper circumstances arise, though that isn't a majority. If we are talking only about those in Gaza and the West Bank then I have no trouble believing that since pretty much anywhere is likely a better place.

They should be able to

Israel doesn't exactly have anti-emigration laws. Israelis can leave Israel whenever they like.

and I think the US and EU owe it to the people of the region to hand over a few miliion passports.

Perhaps. I'm certain there is a reasonable case to be made for this. I doubt however that 6 million Jews are going to be in any rush to get into Europe though (I maintain that modern Europe is still inhospitable to Jews and I personally have no desire to live there for any extended amount of time) - but a decent number would likely emigrate to the US if they foresaw a worthwhile transition.

It really wouldn't be that big a deal to absorb that many people.

That's not really the biggest obstacle to this plan. At least half of Israelis wouldn't even entertain this idea, and there would be much protest (creating political obstacles) in the US/EU for absorbing these individuals that did want to emigrate even though it's not a huge number.

Suppose the US took 3 million, that's only 60,000 people per state on average. It could happen over 5 years. Gaza would probably empty out entirely, and then it doesn't really matter who owns it.

I don't think the numbers are a problem. I just don't see it as realistic. Probably half of Israelis aren't going to go anywhere as a matter of principal.

As for Gaza you are probably right, since most with a chance to leave it would probably take that opportunity... and still that's not going to happen for various reasons, including the vested interest in maintaining a hereditary refugee group perpetuated for all eternity if only for the financial reasons - but also the political ones.

But yeah, if we ignore all elements of what is realistic, then simply asking everyone to leave the area by offering an alternative relocation plan (and assuming they took up the offer) would solve the issue since no one would be living there to actually be in conflict.

To be frank, I think saying we are going to establish a colony on the moon for these people is just as realistic.
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PetersSmith
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10/24/2015 6:22:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 1:11:26 AM, beng100 wrote:
It's clearly a tough problem to solve. My interpretation of the situation makes me think a fully independent west bank would be the best scenario, with the removal of all israli settlements and the return of all land to Palestinians. I would give Israel full control of Jerusalem and the Gaza strip in return. I would encourage emigration out of the Gaza strip to the west bank through financial incentives. Some of the abandoned israli settlements could be offered to Muslims from the Gaza strip and further homes built. Hamas militants could then be eliminated from the Gaza strip. A fully functioning international Border between Israel and the west bank could be set up. I think this is the best solution for the area and although may cause short term distress for a few will lead to long term peace for the area.

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beng100
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10/24/2015 7:51:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 3:07:08 AM, shalal12 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 1:11:26 AM, beng100 wrote:
It's clearly a tough problem to solve. My interpretation of the situation makes me think a fully independent west bank would be the best scenario, with the removal of all israli settlements and the return of all land to Palestinians. I would give Israel full control of Jerusalem and the Gaza strip in return. I would encourage emigration out of the Gaza strip to the west bank through financial incentives. Some of the abandoned israli settlements could be offered to Muslims from the Gaza strip and further homes built. Hamas militants could then be eliminated from the Gaza strip. A fully functioning international Border between Israel and the west bank could be set up. I think this is the best solution for the area and although may cause short term distress for a few will lead to long term peace for the area.
The problem is NOT Israeli-Palestinian problem. In fact, it's Islamic-Zionist problem. Israel is NOT a country it is a Zionist regime and Palestinians are the true owners of the country. At the same time Jerusalem is sacred for all the Muslims and make sure many Muslim countries will not let Israel take it. Zionists are threat to all Middle East, as there is almost no wars here that Israel doesn't have destructive role there.

Zionists have killed thousands of Muslims. In the recent decades, Zionists killed 300 Iranian scientists in different terrors, and no media covered it. Do you think we will be silent for ever?

Israel is a growing cancer in the Middle East, soon it will be removed.

How would you deal with the ongoing conflict? I assume kick out tge jews from israel would be your approach but what would you fo with them? Its worth regognizing though israel has a strong military and would not go down without nuclear war and massive destruction in the region. Who do you think will remove Israel? Personally I think my opinions are a far better conflict resolution.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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10/24/2015 7:57:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 3:45:15 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 1:11:26 AM, beng100 wrote:
It's clearly a tough problem to solve. My interpretation of the situation makes me think a fully independent west bank would be the best scenario, with the removal of all israli settlements and the return of all land to Palestinians. I would give Israel full control of Jerusalem and the Gaza strip in return. I would encourage emigration out of the Gaza strip to the west bank through financial incentives. Some of the abandoned israli settlements could be offered to Muslims from the Gaza strip and further homes built. Hamas militants could then be eliminated from the Gaza strip. A fully functioning international Border between Israel and the west bank could be set up. I think this is the best solution for the area and although may cause short term distress for a few will lead to long term peace for the area.

Sure, why not? If I'm the grand overlord of Israel, I accept this deal in a second... Although (being the grand overlord of Israel) I don't necessarily care about ownership of Gaza per se', and would just hope that Egypt would finally take back control over it... or someone else entirely can have it... ownership of it is not exactly a major issue here in the grand scheme of things.

Th settlements aren't as much of a sticking point as people like to think. They are rather, a valid strategic elements to the conflict that allows Israel to maintain a buffer zone and greater ability to negotiate in the future. Certainly there are some inconveniences there, but nothing entirely preventative towards a reasonable solution (land swaps are always on the table in any case). In other words, as grand overlord of Israel, I'd uproot every last settlement in a second, if I thought it would make any difference (something I don't believe, nor do many (likely most) Israelis).

Anyways, it's an interesting thought, but there's really no will to do this (as sad as that is). The status quo is perfectly fine with most of the major players, and a major change represents (based on the historical record) too much of a risk for those close to the situation.

Yes i acknowledge tge two sides are happy with tgd messy situation and have no desire to solve it. The idea with Gaza was to eliminate the terrorist threat posed by Hamas. In my view the Israeli military needs to go in there and eliminate them. It would be much better if the west bank agreed they could do this and all civilians were evacuated from their first. Ultimately the area is such a poisoned chalice no one wants to run it, but I think Israel needs to run it.
shalal12
Posts: 303
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10/24/2015 5:12:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 7:51:36 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:07:08 AM, shalal12 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 1:11:26 AM, beng100 wrote:
It's clearly a tough problem to solve. My interpretation of the situation makes me think a fully independent west bank would be the best scenario, with the removal of all israli settlements and the return of all land to Palestinians. I would give Israel full control of Jerusalem and the Gaza strip in return. I would encourage emigration out of the Gaza strip to the west bank through financial incentives. Some of the abandoned israli settlements could be offered to Muslims from the Gaza strip and further homes built. Hamas militants could then be eliminated from the Gaza strip. A fully functioning international Border between Israel and the west bank could be set up. I think this is the best solution for the area and although may cause short term distress for a few will lead to long term peace for the area.
The problem is NOT Israeli-Palestinian problem. In fact, it's Islamic-Zionist problem. Israel is NOT a country it is a Zionist regime and Palestinians are the true owners of the country. At the same time Jerusalem is sacred for all the Muslims and make sure many Muslim countries will not let Israel take it. Zionists are threat to all Middle East, as there is almost no wars here that Israel doesn't have destructive role there.

Zionists have killed thousands of Muslims. In the recent decades, Zionists killed 300 Iranian scientists in different terrors, and no media covered it. Do you think we will be silent for ever?

Israel is a growing cancer in the Middle East, soon it will be removed.

How would you deal with the ongoing conflict? I assume kick out tge jews from israel would be your approach but what would you fo with them? Its worth regognizing though israel has a strong military and would not go down without nuclear war and massive destruction in the region. Who do you think will remove Israel? Personally I think my opinions are a far better conflict resolution.

Do you think if we let Israel get some parts of Palestine, they will be satisfied?! During the history they just broke their promises and took more parts.

What they want is sacred land. You cannot imagine what they have in their predictions. They are looking for promised sacred land which covers: Almost whole Palestine, Lebanon, wide area of Syria and Jordan and some parts of Egypt!!!!

Why do you think they attacked Lebanon?
Why do you think they are backing ISIS and Syrian rebels? (Western media=Joke: They want to help Syrian people as they care for human rights?!!!)
They want to remove Assad and legal governments of some countries and make a Caliphate there (By ISIS or radical Muslim rebels). Having made this Caliphate they will use the power of media to persuade people that they are some terrorists. Then they will stop helping the rebels and will start fighting with them. Having defeated them Israel will own the sacred land.

Israel and its allies have killed more than 2 millions Muslims in recent decades. It's almost a nuclear bomb. And make sure Iran is enough to make whole Israel a flat desert without using any nuclear bombs. Dont you see how rich Zionists (Which control more than the 80% of the news and media of the world) emphasize that Iran doesnt have human rights, or Iran is trying to make nuclear bombs or... to persuade western people to invade Iran?
Why doesn't they attack the kingdoms of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar as they know nothing about "human rights"!!
They dont dare attacking us, and they want to abuse their allies to reach their evil goal.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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10/24/2015 5:40:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 5:12:21 PM, shalal12 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 7:51:36 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:07:08 AM, shalal12 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 1:11:26 AM, beng100 wrote:
It's clearly a tough problem to solve. My interpretation of the situation makes me think a fully independent west bank would be the best scenario, with the removal of all israli settlements and the return of all land to Palestinians. I would give Israel full control of Jerusalem and the Gaza strip in return. I would encourage emigration out of the Gaza strip to the west bank through financial incentives. Some of the abandoned israli settlements could be offered to Muslims from the Gaza strip and further homes built. Hamas militants could then be eliminated from the Gaza strip. A fully functioning international Border between Israel and the west bank could be set up. I think this is the best solution for the area and although may cause short term distress for a few will lead to long term peace for the area.
The problem is NOT Israeli-Palestinian problem. In fact, it's Islamic-Zionist problem. Israel is NOT a country it is a Zionist regime and Palestinians are the true owners of the country. At the same time Jerusalem is sacred for all the Muslims and make sure many Muslim countries will not let Israel take it. Zionists are threat to all Middle East, as there is almost no wars here that Israel doesn't have destructive role there.

Zionists have killed thousands of Muslims. In the recent decades, Zionists killed 300 Iranian scientists in different terrors, and no media covered it. Do you think we will be silent for ever?

Israel is a growing cancer in the Middle East, soon it will be removed.

How would you deal with the ongoing conflict? I assume kick out tge jews from israel would be your approach but what would you fo with them? Its worth regognizing though israel has a strong military and would not go down without nuclear war and massive destruction in the region. Who do you think will remove Israel? Personally I think my opinions are a far better conflict resolution.

Do you think if we let Israel get some parts of Palestine, they will be satisfied?! During the history they just broke their promises and took more parts.

What they want is sacred land. You cannot imagine what they have in their predictions. They are looking for promised sacred land which covers: Almost whole Palestine, Lebanon, wide area of Syria and Jordan and some parts of Egypt!!!!

Why do you think they attacked Lebanon?
Why do you think they are backing ISIS and Syrian rebels? (Western media=Joke: They want to help Syrian people as they care for human rights?!!!)
They want to remove Assad and legal governments of some countries and make a Caliphate there (By ISIS or radical Muslim rebels). Having made this Caliphate they will use the power of media to persuade people that they are some terrorists. Then they will stop helping the rebels and will start fighting with them. Having defeated them Israel will own the sacred land.

Israel and its allies have killed more than 2 millions Muslims in recent decades. It's almost a nuclear bomb. And make sure Iran is enough to make whole Israel a flat desert without using any nuclear bombs. Dont you see how rich Zionists (Which control more than the 80% of the news and media of the world) emphasize that Iran doesnt have human rights, or Iran is trying to make nuclear bombs or... to persuade western people to invade Iran?
Why doesn't they attack the kingdoms of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar as they know nothing about "human rights"!!
They dont dare attacking us, and they want to abuse their allies to reach their evil goal.

I appreciate your on the side of palestine which is fair enough. My position on this issue is neutral. I'm looking at ways to create peace in the region and a fair settlement for all parties. In my view the current situation is not good for either side. My suggestions appear an improved position for both sides. Clearly if Israel violated this agreement it would be subject to international law. In return for agreeing this deal Palestine deserves full recognition and guarenteed military protection in the event of an Israeli invasion or military aggression. Obviously the Palestinians need to stop firing rockets at Israel and avoid provoking it in general. Yes Israelis and Jews tend to be wealthy but the influence they have in world politics and media is not as great as you have claimed. Yes Israel hates Iran and Iran hates Israel. How do you think we should tackle the issue then?
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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10/24/2015 5:48:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 4:33:38 AM, airmax1227 wrote:

- Normally I would ignore this thread completely, but it's not often that we see you so engaged in the discussion.

Israel isn't going anywhere.

- Not if 1/4th the Earth's population is praying for the opposite, especially since an important chunk of them are literally surrounding it, land & sea.

The sooner you recognize this, the sooner compromises can be made,

- The land was occupied for far longer in the past (Crusades) & that didn't change the sentiment of the Muslims one bit. It's not gonna change it now just because a measly 60 years have passed.

and the sooner real peace can be achieved.

- Max, I thought you wiser than that. There is no such thing as peace with Israel occupying the land. I know the two states solution is a popular thing in the West, but in the Muslim world the only popular outcome is the one that doesn't have Israel in it.

Otherwise, I guess the status quo works....

- For Israel, of course.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
shalal12
Posts: 303
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10/24/2015 6:03:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 5:40:08 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:12:21 PM, shalal12 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 7:51:36 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 3:07:08 AM, shalal12 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 1:11:26 AM, beng100 wrote:
It's clearly a tough problem to solve. My interpretation of the situation makes me think a fully independent west bank would be the best scenario, with the removal of all israli settlements and the return of all land to Palestinians. I would give Israel full control of Jerusalem and the Gaza strip in return. I would encourage emigration out of the Gaza strip to the west bank through financial incentives. Some of the abandoned israli settlements could be offered to Muslims from the Gaza strip and further homes built. Hamas militants could then be eliminated from the Gaza strip. A fully functioning international Border between Israel and the west bank could be set up. I think this is the best solution for the area and although may cause short term distress for a few will lead to long term peace for the area.
The problem is NOT Israeli-Palestinian problem. In fact, it's Islamic-Zionist problem. Israel is NOT a country it is a Zionist regime and Palestinians are the true owners of the country. At the same time Jerusalem is sacred for all the Muslims and make sure many Muslim countries will not let Israel take it. Zionists are threat to all Middle East, as there is almost no wars here that Israel doesn't have destructive role there.

Zionists have killed thousands of Muslims. In the recent decades, Zionists killed 300 Iranian scientists in different terrors, and no media covered it. Do you think we will be silent for ever?

Israel is a growing cancer in the Middle East, soon it will be removed.

How would you deal with the ongoing conflict? I assume kick out tge jews from israel would be your approach but what would you fo with them? Its worth regognizing though israel has a strong military and would not go down without nuclear war and massive destruction in the region. Who do you think will remove Israel? Personally I think my opinions are a far better conflict resolution.

Do you think if we let Israel get some parts of Palestine, they will be satisfied?! During the history they just broke their promises and took more parts.

What they want is sacred land. You cannot imagine what they have in their predictions. They are looking for promised sacred land which covers: Almost whole Palestine, Lebanon, wide area of Syria and Jordan and some parts of Egypt!!!!

Why do you think they attacked Lebanon?
Why do you think they are backing ISIS and Syrian rebels? (Western media=Joke: They want to help Syrian people as they care for human rights?!!!)
They want to remove Assad and legal governments of some countries and make a Caliphate there (By ISIS or radical Muslim rebels). Having made this Caliphate they will use the power of media to persuade people that they are some terrorists. Then they will stop helping the rebels and will start fighting with them. Having defeated them Israel will own the sacred land.

Israel and its allies have killed more than 2 millions Muslims in recent decades. It's almost a nuclear bomb. And make sure Iran is enough to make whole Israel a flat desert without using any nuclear bombs. Dont you see how rich Zionists (Which control more than the 80% of the news and media of the world) emphasize that Iran doesnt have human rights, or Iran is trying to make nuclear bombs or... to persuade western people to invade Iran?
Why doesn't they attack the kingdoms of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar as they know nothing about "human rights"!!
They dont dare attacking us, and they want to abuse their allies to reach their evil goal.

I appreciate your on the side of palestine which is fair enough. My position on this issue is neutral. I'm looking at ways to create peace in the region and a fair settlement for all parties. In my view the current situation is not good for either side. My suggestions appear an improved position for both sides. Clearly if Israel violated this agreement it would be subject to international law. In return for agreeing this deal Palestine deserves full recognition and guarenteed military protection in the event of an Israeli invasion or military aggression. Obviously the Palestinians need to stop firing rockets at Israel and avoid provoking it in general. Yes Israelis and Jews tend to be wealthy but the influence they have in world politics and media is not as great as you have claimed. Yes Israel hates Iran and Iran hates Israel. How do you think we should tackle the issue then?

To be frank, Zionists' influence on western politics is much more than what you think.

And who cares for international laws?!!! Israel announced that 2 Israeli is killed by Hamas and then started attacking them. How did they prove it that those 2 Israeli were killed by Hamas?! Just look to Hitler's wars; he also adopted the same way when wanted to start invading. I really dont care about UN or international laws as they are just means of west.

UN entered Iran's army in the list of terrorist groups and they put heavy sanctions on us!! Did we start any war in the this century? Is backing Palestinian people, backing terrorism?
If it were, so what's USA and allies doing in Syria by supporting moderate terrorists there?
Where is UN now, in Yemen war?!! They just dont take serious actions.
Where was UN in Gaza war?

Palestine never starts the war. It is always Israel. Your media is bias, and always says that Hamas shooted rockets. I ask you why should Hamas start a war in which they are just losers? Israel has the power of media and shows every thing as they want.
shalal12
Posts: 303
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10/24/2015 6:06:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/24/2015 5:43:10 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 10/24/2015 5:39:49 AM, Garbanza wrote:
It's so obvious. Give every single Israel or Palestinian full EU or US citizenship in exchange for giving up Israeli citizenship and the right to return to Israel. I bet most people would take it and then, when dust settles from the mass exodus, we can impose a one state solution. Whoever's there at that point can stay and good luck to them (YOU IDIOTS. TAKE THE DEAL.)

haha that is certainly an interesting idea... though it might have some flaws - but I like it anyway

Deceive is almost in the genetics, I suppose. And make sure the other side is NOT full.