Total Posts:32|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Debate coming up

CrappyDebater
Posts: 334
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 9:20:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hello all, I have a class Debate coming up, the topic is, " Should Healthcare Insurance be mandatory for everyone." I was wonder what you guys think the 3 best arguments for Con are?
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 10:35:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
1. It makes Healthcare coercive. Not good.

2. Mandates people put their money into healthcare. Not good.

3. More government to ensure this is in place. Not good.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 10:38:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 9:20:49 AM, CrappyDebater wrote:
Hello all, I have a class Debate coming up, the topic is, " Should Healthcare Insurance be mandatory for everyone." I was wonder what you guys think the 3 best arguments for Con are?

1. The government has no right employ paternalistic coercion. Individuals cannot delegate to their government any right which they do not themselves possess.

That's the only argument you need.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 10:49:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 9:20:49 AM, CrappyDebater wrote:
Hello all, I have a class Debate coming up, the topic is, " Should Healthcare Insurance be mandatory for everyone." I was wonder what you guys think the 3 best arguments for Con are?

1) We don't want poor people, who are not productive, wasting our resources for healthcare when we could be giving productive rich people those resources and be more effective at rewarding their inputs to society

2) "People who are not productive should not expect to live well." - Anonymous DDO member with initials CF

3) If we continue to care for the poor, they will continue to reproduce and overwhelm the system until it falls apart anyway. We should therefore do the more humane thing and passively refuse them care.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 10:55:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 10:49:01 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 9/23/2010 9:20:49 AM, CrappyDebater wrote:
Hello all, I have a class Debate coming up, the topic is, " Should Healthcare Insurance be mandatory for everyone." I was wonder what you guys think the 3 best arguments for Con are?

1) We don't want poor people, who are not productive, wasting our resources for healthcare when we could be giving productive rich people those resources and be more effective at rewarding their inputs to society

2) "People who are not productive should not expect to live well." - Anonymous DDO member with initials CF

3) If we continue to care for the poor, they will continue to reproduce and overwhelm the system until it falls apart anyway. We should therefore do the more humane thing and passively refuse them care.

I'm ashamed of you.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 10:55:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Oh, wait, you were being sarcastic...

In that case, good show.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 11:05:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
No healthcare insurance should not be mandatory.

The nation should provide all citizens with decent healthcare, free of charge at the point of use, and made available according to need rather than ability to pay.

Yes, it would mean raising taxes but then people would actually save money overall because they wouldn't have to pay huge premiums to private health insurance companies: whose primary concern is their shareholders, not the welfare of their patients, don't forget.
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 11:08:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 11:05:36 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
No healthcare insurance should not be mandatory.

The nation should provide all citizens with decent healthcare, free of charge at the point of use, and made available according to need rather than ability to pay.

Yes, it would mean raising taxes but then people would actually save money overall because they wouldn't have to pay huge premiums to private health insurance companies: whose primary concern is their shareholders, not the welfare of their patients, don't forget.

Firstly, if they neglect their patients welfare they won't get customers. Their interests often overlap.

Furthermore, what obligation does a higher wage earner have to pay for the healthcare of another?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 11:16:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 10:55:55 AM, Reasoning wrote:
Oh, wait, you were being sarcastic...

In that case, good show.

LOL I'm just trying to fit in with my authoritarian brethren.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 11:35:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 10:35:16 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
1. It makes Healthcare coercive. Not good.

2. Mandates people put their money into healthcare. Not good.

3. More government to ensure this is in place. Not good.

Wow, you really have been hanging out with the libertarians here. I think this is the first time i have ever heard a European (or Canadian for that matter) say something like this.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 11:37:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 11:35:28 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/23/2010 10:35:16 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
1. It makes Healthcare coercive. Not good.

2. Mandates people put their money into healthcare. Not good.

3. More government to ensure this is in place. Not good.

Wow, you really have been hanging out with the libertarians here. I think this is the first time i have ever heard a European (or Canadian for that matter) say something like this.

Ireland doesn't have the healthcare system of Canada or Europe\Britain.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 11:39:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 11:37:43 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/23/2010 11:35:28 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/23/2010 10:35:16 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
1. It makes Healthcare coercive. Not good.

2. Mandates people put their money into healthcare. Not good.

3. More government to ensure this is in place. Not good.

Wow, you really have been hanging out with the libertarians here. I think this is the first time i have ever heard a European (or Canadian for that matter) say something like this.

Ireland doesn't have the healthcare system of Canada or Europe\Britain.

Panda do you burn kittens in your spare time?
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 11:52:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 11:37:43 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/23/2010 11:35:28 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/23/2010 10:35:16 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
1. It makes Healthcare coercive. Not good.

2. Mandates people put their money into healthcare. Not good.

3. More government to ensure this is in place. Not good.

Wow, you really have been hanging out with the libertarians here. I think this is the first time i have ever heard a European (or Canadian for that matter) say something like this.

Ireland doesn't have the healthcare system of Canada or Europe\Britain.

It's socialized though no?
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 11:57:56 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 11:52:17 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/23/2010 11:37:43 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/23/2010 11:35:28 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/23/2010 10:35:16 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
1. It makes Healthcare coercive. Not good.

2. Mandates people put their money into healthcare. Not good.

3. More government to ensure this is in place. Not good.

Wow, you really have been hanging out with the libertarians here. I think this is the first time i have ever heard a European (or Canadian for that matter) say something like this.

Ireland doesn't have the healthcare system of Canada or Europe\Britain.

It's socialized though no?

If you fall below a certain threshold you get free healthcare. Otherwise, no.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 11:59:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 11:39:25 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 9/23/2010 11:37:43 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 9/23/2010 11:35:28 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/23/2010 10:35:16 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
1. It makes Healthcare coercive. Not good.

2. Mandates people put their money into healthcare. Not good.

3. More government to ensure this is in place. Not good.

Wow, you really have been hanging out with the libertarians here. I think this is the first time i have ever heard a European (or Canadian for that matter) say something like this.

Ireland doesn't have the healthcare system of Canada or Europe\Britain.

Panda do you burn kittens in your spare time?

No, but why does not wanting to coerce people out of their money to provide a sub-standard service equate to having a lack of sympathy for animals.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 12:10:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 11:16:36 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 9/23/2010 10:55:55 AM, Reasoning wrote:
Oh, wait, you were being sarcastic...

In that case, good show.

LOL I'm just trying to fit in with my authoritarian brethren.

Authoritarian? Wtf? These people are not authoritarian. I'm guessing you haven't talked to me or Mirza much.
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:07:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
-National health care is a monopoly
-It will be managed by politicians who have no incentive to plan beyond their political career
-In the absence of prices, planners will not know how much to produce. We cannot simply allocate "enough" resources to healthcare, because all wants are infinite and resources may be used for many things.
Things that are so interesting:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:08:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 12:10:53 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/23/2010 11:16:36 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 9/23/2010 10:55:55 AM, Reasoning wrote:
Oh, wait, you were being sarcastic...

In that case, good show.

LOL I'm just trying to fit in with my authoritarian brethren.

Authoritarian? Wtf? These people are not authoritarian. I'm guessing you haven't talked to me or Mirza much.

Compared to me you are as authoritarian as Hitler.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:09:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 1:08:50 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Compared to me you are as authoritarian as Hitler.
You support much worse authoritarianism. Much worse.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:11:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Panda do you burn kittens in your spare time?

No, but why does not wanting to coerce people out of their money to provide a sub-standard service equate to having a lack of sympathy for animals.

Because we are not all "monied." Your point conveniently sails around the fact that poor people cannot be cared for if we simply resort to profit-based health-care.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:11:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 1:08:50 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 9/23/2010 12:10:53 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/23/2010 11:16:36 AM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 9/23/2010 10:55:55 AM, Reasoning wrote:
Oh, wait, you were being sarcastic...

In that case, good show.

LOL I'm just trying to fit in with my authoritarian brethren.

Authoritarian? Wtf? These people are not authoritarian. I'm guessing you haven't talked to me or Mirza much.

Compared to me you are as authoritarian as Hitler.

Well hey, I don't support an idealistic hippie utopia.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:11:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 1:09:39 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/23/2010 1:08:50 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Compared to me you are as authoritarian as Hitler.
You support much worse authoritarianism. Much worse.

I stand corrected.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:12:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
LOL I'm just trying to fit in with my authoritarian brethren.

Authoritarian? Wtf? These people are not authoritarian. I'm guessing you haven't talked to me or Mirza much.

Compared to me you are as authoritarian as Hitler.

Well hey, I don't support an idealistic hippie utopia.

Yeah I know... Being ideal isn't one of your goals so there's not much I can get through to you.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:14:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 1:11:46 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 9/23/2010 1:09:39 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/23/2010 1:08:50 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Compared to me you are as authoritarian as Hitler.
You support much worse authoritarianism. Much worse.

I stand corrected.
You should be. You support a system that would never manage to prevent a criminal system from arising. Such a thing would be your worst nightmare and nobody would be able to eliminate it because the monstrous anarchism that you support has no force whatsoever to do anything. The system you support would turn into a government of pure criminality and you would suffer more than all governments in the world combined make their people suffer.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:17:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 11:05:36 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
No health care insurance should not be mandatory.

The nation should provide all citizens with decent health care, free of charge at the point of use, and made available according to need rather than ability to pay.

Yes, it would mean raising taxes but then people would actually save money overall because they wouldn't have to pay huge premiums to private health insurance companies: whose primary concern is their shareholders, not the welfare of their patients, don't forget.

I have to disagree. My wife's friend is on TennCare, free health care. I have traditional health care. Her children are treated like cattle in a sale barn, check em out send em out. Her oldest daughter went with a huge cyst in her head for five years and the doctors wouldn't do a CAT scan. If my wife even things my boy got his head smacked to hard playing ball she takes him to get a scan. In the cases I have seen the "free" health care.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:18:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 1:12:51 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
LOL I'm just trying to fit in with my authoritarian brethren.

Authoritarian? Wtf? These people are not authoritarian. I'm guessing you haven't talked to me or Mirza much.

Compared to me you are as authoritarian as Hitler.

Well hey, I don't support an idealistic hippie utopia.

Yeah I know... Being ideal isn't one of your goals so there's not much I can get through to you.

Well being idealistic doesn't work. Your ideal system will never exist.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:18:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 1:14:45 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/23/2010 1:11:46 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 9/23/2010 1:09:39 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/23/2010 1:08:50 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Compared to me you are as authoritarian as Hitler.
You support much worse authoritarianism. Much worse.

I stand corrected.
You should be. You support a system that would never manage to prevent a criminal system from arising. Such a thing would be your worst nightmare and nobody would be able to eliminate it because the monstrous anarchism that you support has no force whatsoever to do anything. The system you support would turn into a government of pure criminality and you would suffer more than all governments in the world combined make their people suffer.

You are stuck in a paradigm which promotes criminality at every turn, and trying to fit that into a system with no punishment for it.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:19:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 1:18:02 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/23/2010 1:12:51 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
LOL I'm just trying to fit in with my authoritarian brethren.

Authoritarian? Wtf? These people are not authoritarian. I'm guessing you haven't talked to me or Mirza much.

Compared to me you are as authoritarian as Hitler.

Well hey, I don't support an idealistic hippie utopia.

Yeah I know... Being ideal isn't one of your goals so there's not much I can get through to you.

Well being idealistic doesn't work. Your ideal system will never exist.

You can say Im a dreamer... But Im not the only one.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:23:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 1:19:10 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
You can say Im a dreamer... But Im not the only one.
Assume you live in an anarchist society and I live in an authoritarian one. I am the ruler and am very displeased at the situation of your society. If I wish to invade it and make peoples' lives better, which preventive measures does anarchism offer to its people? Short answer please, thank you.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
9/23/2010 1:25:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 1:18:02 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 9/23/2010 1:14:45 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/23/2010 1:11:46 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
At 9/23/2010 1:09:39 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/23/2010 1:08:50 PM, Rob1Billion wrote:
Compared to me you are as authoritarian as Hitler.
You support much worse authoritarianism. Much worse.

I stand corrected.
You should be. You support a system that would never manage to prevent a criminal system from arising. Such a thing would be your worst nightmare and nobody would be able to eliminate it because the monstrous anarchism that you support has no force whatsoever to do anything. The system you support would turn into a government of pure criminality and you would suffer more than all governments in the world combined make their people suffer.

You are stuck in a paradigm which promotes criminality at every turn, and trying to fit that into a system with no punishment for it.
That is plain illogic. Crime cannot possibly be abolished. Crime is a result of humans committing mistakes. It is a result of humans not being able to make proper decisions. Anarchism can never prevent this from occurring, and once it occurs, it cannot stop it. Gangs who wish to control people and compete with each other would demolish an entire society. The nonsensical non-system of anarchism would drown along with its people.