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Fascist Police Attack Innocents

GeoLaureate8
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9/23/2010 6:55:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
How can you watch this and still support the police.

[Skip to 0:40]
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
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9/23/2010 6:58:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
two words bro: hasty generalization. remember that vid of the girl drowning puppies? how can you watch that and support little girls!?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
annhasle
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9/23/2010 6:58:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 6:58:26 PM, belle wrote:
two words bro: hasty generalization. remember that vid of the girl drowning puppies? how can you watch that and support little girls!?

This.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
popculturepooka
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9/23/2010 7:00:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 6:58:26 PM, belle wrote:
two words bro: hasty generalization. remember that vid of the girl drowning puppies? how can you watch that and support little girls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111????????????????????

Fix'd.
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Ragnar_Rahl
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9/23/2010 7:03:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 6:58:26 PM, belle wrote:
two words bro: hasty generalization. remember that vid of the girl drowning puppies? how can you watch that and support little girls!?

Does anyone know whose property the puppies were?
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GeoLaureate8
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9/23/2010 7:05:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 6:58:26 PM, belle wrote:
two words bro: hasty generalization. remember that vid of the girl drowning puppies? how can you watch that and support little girls!?

I said it just recently and I'll say it again. I am not making a general statement about all cops, merely because of the actions of a few bad ones.

I am attacking ALL cops whether they are nice people or not. I don't care if there are some cops that haven't directly inflicted injustice, their very existence is an injustice!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
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9/23/2010 7:09:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 7:05:45 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/23/2010 6:58:26 PM, belle wrote:
two words bro: hasty generalization. remember that vid of the girl drowning puppies? how can you watch that and support little girls!?

I said it just recently and I'll say it again. I am not making a general statement about all cops, merely because of the actions of a few bad ones.

I am attacking ALL cops whether they are nice people or not. I don't care if there are some cops that haven't directly inflicted injustice, their very existence is an injustice!

let me tell you how i am understanding this conversation:

geo- look at the terrible things cops do! they are terrible!
me- just because some cops are terrible, it doesn't follow that all cops are terrible
geo- it doesn't matter if they are terrible or not, they are terrible!

i'm not trying to make fun of you. seriously. but if you're gonna b*tch that cops do terrible things, and use that as a basis to call them unjust, you can't further deny that it matters whether a cop is good or not because he is unjust no matter what. you can only make one argument or the other (inherently unjust regardless of what they do or they do bad things, and therefore are unjust) not both.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
GeoLaureate8
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9/23/2010 7:15:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 7:09:30 PM, belle wrote:
let me tell you how i am understanding this conversation:

geo- look at the terrible things cops do! they are terrible!
me- just because some cops are terrible, it doesn't follow that all cops are terrible
geo- it doesn't matter if they are terrible or not, they are terrible!

i'm not trying to make fun of you. seriously. but if you're gonna b*tch that cops do terrible things, and use that as a basis to call them unjust, you can't further deny that it matters whether a cop is good or not because he is unjust no matter what. you can only make one argument or the other (inherently unjust regardless of what they do or they do bad things, and therefore are unjust) not both.

You're misunderstanding my argument then. I'm not saying, "look at the terrible things these cops are doing, they're all bad!"

I'm showing that they ALL CAN do terrible things and get away with it. The video just makes it more effective because it's a real life example that actually shows them doing terrible things and getting away with it because "they are the law."

My point would still apply, even without various examples.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
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9/23/2010 7:18:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 7:15:03 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I'm showing that they ALL CAN do terrible things and get away with it. The video just makes it more effective because it's a real life example that actually shows them doing terrible things and getting away with it because "they are the law."

My point would still apply, even without various examples.

so....a state without proper limits delineating what can and cannot be done by its agents is likely to be immoral? no surprises there! in fact i would agree. thats why the police are not above the law. if it is so in practice that is because laws are not prosecuted effectively and that can change. it doesn't follow that police are inherently bad. your conclusion doesn't follow. the proper conclusion is that we need to enforce laws equally upon all citizens INCLUDING COPS.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
GeoLaureate8
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9/23/2010 7:34:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 7:18:45 PM, belle wrote:
so....a state without proper limits delineating what can and cannot be done by its agents is likely to be immoral? no surprises there! in fact i would agree. thats why the police are not above the law. if it is so in practice that is because laws are not prosecuted effectively and that can change. it doesn't follow that police are inherently bad. your conclusion doesn't follow. the proper conclusion is that we need to enforce laws equally upon all citizens INCLUDING COPS.

Again, that's not the issue. For example, in the video, the cops weren't breaking any laws.

The police in the video announced: "The use of riot control agents and or less lethal munitions which could cause risk of injury to those who remain. No matter what your purpose is, you must leave. If you do not disperse, you may be arrested and or subject to other police action, munitions which could cause risk of injury to those who remain. By order of the the City of Pittsburg chief police I hearby declare this an unlawful assbemly. I order all those assembled to immediately disperse."

See THAT? That right there, is EXACTLY what I have a problem with.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
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9/23/2010 7:40:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
so.... you just don't like people telling you what to do?

the kids were breaking a law, the cops told them exactly what would happen if they didn't leave... if cops aren't allowed to enforce the laws then they may as well be disbanded, and we can have anarchy. then everyone can be a police force unto themselves ;P

could the cops have handled things better? sure. does that mean the existence of cops is unjust? no. it means that cops need to be held accountable for their actions when they cross the line. which they are to a surprising degree.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
lovelife
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9/23/2010 7:51:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 7:34:44 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/23/2010 7:18:45 PM, belle wrote:
so....a state without proper limits delineating what can and cannot be done by its agents is likely to be immoral? no surprises there! in fact i would agree. thats why the police are not above the law. if it is so in practice that is because laws are not prosecuted effectively and that can change. it doesn't follow that police are inherently bad. your conclusion doesn't follow. the proper conclusion is that we need to enforce laws equally upon all citizens INCLUDING COPS.

Again, that's not the issue. For example, in the video, the cops weren't breaking any laws.

The police in the video announced: "The use of riot control agents and or less lethal munitions which could cause risk of injury to those who remain. No matter what your purpose is, you must leave. If you do not disperse, you may be arrested and or subject to other police action, munitions which could cause risk of injury to those who remain. By order of the the City of Pittsburg chief police I hearby declare this an unlawful assbemly. I order all those assembled to immediately disperse."


See THAT? That right there, is EXACTLY what I have a problem with.

Sorrry to post on here, but I have to ask, isn't that violation of the first amendment, the right to assemble?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
belle
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9/23/2010 7:53:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 7:51:21 PM, lovelife wrote:
Sorrry to post on here, but I have to ask, isn't that violation of the first amendment, the right to assemble?

depends where you are. you have the right to assemble, but not in a place the owner does not want you assembling. if the university doesn't want a riot on its property it can kick people out. which is what i am assuming occurred there.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
lovelife
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9/23/2010 7:55:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 7:53:46 PM, belle wrote:
At 9/23/2010 7:51:21 PM, lovelife wrote:
Sorrry to post on here, but I have to ask, isn't that violation of the first amendment, the right to assemble?

depends where you are. you have the right to assemble, but not in a place the owner does not want you assembling. if the university doesn't want a riot on its property it can kick people out. which is what i am assuming occurred there.

Makes sense in that case.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Korashk
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9/23/2010 7:59:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 7:51:21 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 9/23/2010 7:34:44 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/23/2010 7:18:45 PM, belle wrote:
so....a state without proper limits delineating what can and cannot be done by its agents is likely to be immoral? no surprises there! in fact i would agree. thats why the police are not above the law. if it is so in practice that is because laws are not prosecuted effectively and that can change. it doesn't follow that police are inherently bad. your conclusion doesn't follow. the proper conclusion is that we need to enforce laws equally upon all citizens INCLUDING COPS.

Again, that's not the issue. For example, in the video, the cops weren't breaking any laws.

The police in the video announced: "The use of riot control agents and or less lethal munitions which could cause risk of injury to those who remain. No matter what your purpose is, you must leave. If you do not disperse, you may be arrested and or subject to other police action, munitions which could cause risk of injury to those who remain. By order of the the City of Pittsburg chief police I hearby declare this an unlawful assbemly. I order all those assembled to immediately disperse."


See THAT? That right there, is EXACTLY what I have a problem with.

Sorrry to post on here, but I have to ask, isn't that violation of the first amendment, the right to assemble?

The first amendment doesn't guarantee the right to assemble. It guarantees the right to PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE on public property.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
lovelife
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9/23/2010 8:03:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 7:59:11 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 9/23/2010 7:51:21 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 9/23/2010 7:34:44 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/23/2010 7:18:45 PM, belle wrote:
so....a state without proper limits delineating what can and cannot be done by its agents is likely to be immoral? no surprises there! in fact i would agree. thats why the police are not above the law. if it is so in practice that is because laws are not prosecuted effectively and that can change. it doesn't follow that police are inherently bad. your conclusion doesn't follow. the proper conclusion is that we need to enforce laws equally upon all citizens INCLUDING COPS.

Again, that's not the issue. For example, in the video, the cops weren't breaking any laws.

The police in the video announced: "The use of riot control agents and or less lethal munitions which could cause risk of injury to those who remain. No matter what your purpose is, you must leave. If you do not disperse, you may be arrested and or subject to other police action, munitions which could cause risk of injury to those who remain. By order of the the City of Pittsburg chief police I hearby declare this an unlawful assbemly. I order all those assembled to immediately disperse."


See THAT? That right there, is EXACTLY what I have a problem with.

Sorrry to post on here, but I have to ask, isn't that violation of the first amendment, the right to assemble?

The first amendment doesn't guarantee the right to assemble. It guarantees the right to PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE on public property.

The right to peacefully assemble. Prolly since I didn't watch the video but nothing I read showed nothing non-peaceful.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Korashk
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9/23/2010 8:06:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 8:03:56 PM, lovelife wrote:
The right to peacefully assemble. Prolly since I didn't watch the video but nothing I read showed nothing non-peaceful.

I didn't watch it either, I'm just putting forth information.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
GeoLaureate8
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9/23/2010 8:09:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 7:40:23 PM, belle wrote:
so.... you just don't like people telling you what to do?

Precisely.

the kids were breaking a law,

What law?

Look at the video description: "Police used teargas pepper spray and rubber bullets against University of Pittsburgh students during the Pittsburgh G20 Summit. Many of the students were not part of any demonstration but bystanders, curious to find a mass of armed riot police on their campus."

Many weren't even protesting, but aren't they legally allowed to peacefully protest?

the cops told them exactly what would happen if they didn't leave...

Which is exactly the issue. A bunch of students were standing near a campus (where students belong), the police demanded that they leave the area (what right do they have to tell people where to stand and what justification is there to have people clear the area??), and if they didn't do what they say, they will forcefully attack them.

You don't see a problem with that???

if cops aren't allowed to enforce the laws then they may as well be disbanded,

"No matter what your purpose is, you must leave. If you do not disperse, you may be arrested and or subject to other police action, munitions which could cause risk of injury to those who remain."

I don't care what you're doing, but if you don't do what we say, then we will arrest or forcefully injure you.

You think that police can arrest people on the account that people don't follow their orders?

and we can have anarchy. then everyone can be a police force unto themselves ;P

I thought that was the goal.

could the cops have handled things better? sure. does that mean the existence of cops is unjust? no. it means that cops need to be held accountable for their actions when they cross the line. which they are to a surprising degree.

Again, it doesn't matter how they handled the situation. Even if they handled the situation "better," in principle everything about it is wrong. The City declared a peaceful assembly to be unlawful, the police come to enforce the "law" (even though the assembly wasn't hurting anybody), in order to enforce the (arbitrary) law, they declare "do what I say, I order you to leave, innocent or not, or else you will be arrested and injured."
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
annhasle
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9/23/2010 8:13:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
They were peacefully assembled. There were no laws broken here. In the video, there was a guy who claimed they were sitting in the grass, talking and doing math problems. They supposedly have frequent summits just like that one. For some reason, the riot police showed up....

This was police brutality.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
GeoLaureate8
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9/23/2010 8:13:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 7:53:46 PM, belle wrote:
At 9/23/2010 7:51:21 PM, lovelife wrote:
Sorrry to post on here, but I have to ask, isn't that violation of the first amendment, the right to assemble?

depends where you are. you have the right to assemble, but not in a place the owner does not want you assembling. if the university doesn't want a riot on its property it can kick people out. which is what i am assuming occurred there.

A skinny college girl was standing on a PUBLIC street and the police ganged up on her and beat her to the ground.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
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9/23/2010 8:16:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 8:09:48 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Again, it doesn't matter how they handled the situation. Even if they handled the situation "better," in principle everything about it is wrong. The City declared a peaceful assembly to be unlawful, the police come to enforce the "law" (even though the assembly wasn't hurting anybody), in order to enforce the (arbitrary) law, they declare "do what I say, I order you to leave, innocent or not, or else you will be arrested and injured."

so the university has no right to disperse crowds forming on its property? if the university does not want them there and they stay they ARE breaking the law. you can't say its arbitrary that an institution should have the right to prevent certain occurrences on its property whether you think those occurrences are harmless or not. the cops were enforcing the property rights of the university which is well within their job description. how about if the assembly had been in your living room instead? wouldn't you want to be able to call someone to force people to leave if you didn't want them there? or should you have to rely only on your own resources against whatever the intruders wish to do in defiance of you?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
GeoLaureate8
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9/23/2010 8:19:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 8:16:51 PM, belle wrote:
At 9/23/2010 8:09:48 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Again, it doesn't matter how they handled the situation. Even if they handled the situation "better," in principle everything about it is wrong. The City declared a peaceful assembly to be unlawful, the police come to enforce the "law" (even though the assembly wasn't hurting anybody), in order to enforce the (arbitrary) law, they declare "do what I say, I order you to leave, innocent or not, or else you will be arrested and injured."

so the university has no right to disperse crowds forming on its property? if the university does not want them there and they stay they ARE breaking the law. you can't say its arbitrary that an institution should have the right to prevent certain occurrences on its property whether you think those occurrences are harmless or not. the cops were enforcing the property rights of the university which is well within their job description. how about if the assembly had been in your living room instead? wouldn't you want to be able to call someone to force people to leave if you didn't want them there? or should you have to rely only on your own resources against whatever the intruders wish to do in defiance of you?

The University had nothing to do with it. They probably have their own University police and they didn't appear in the video. It was declared by the Pittsburgh government that it was an unlawful assemply and they sent in government police.

There was no indication that the University had anything to do with it.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
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9/23/2010 8:21:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 8:19:45 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
There was no indication that the University had anything to do with it.

dude. the title is "police attack students at the university of pittsburgh.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
annhasle
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9/23/2010 8:22:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 8:19:45 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/23/2010 8:16:51 PM, belle wrote:
At 9/23/2010 8:09:48 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Again, it doesn't matter how they handled the situation. Even if they handled the situation "better," in principle everything about it is wrong. The City declared a peaceful assembly to be unlawful, the police come to enforce the "law" (even though the assembly wasn't hurting anybody), in order to enforce the (arbitrary) law, they declare "do what I say, I order you to leave, innocent or not, or else you will be arrested and injured."

so the university has no right to disperse crowds forming on its property? if the university does not want them there and they stay they ARE breaking the law. you can't say its arbitrary that an institution should have the right to prevent certain occurrences on its property whether you think those occurrences are harmless or not. the cops were enforcing the property rights of the university which is well within their job description. how about if the assembly had been in your living room instead? wouldn't you want to be able to call someone to force people to leave if you didn't want them there? or should you have to rely only on your own resources against whatever the intruders wish to do in defiance of you?

The University had nothing to do with it. They probably have their own University police and they didn't appear in the video. It was declared by the Pittsburgh government that it was an unlawful assemply and they sent in government police.

There was no indication that the University had anything to do with it.

It was on University of Pittsburgh's campus. But that doesn't excuse ANY of the police's actions...

http://kdka.com...
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
GeoLaureate8
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9/23/2010 8:23:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 8:21:55 PM, belle wrote:
At 9/23/2010 8:19:45 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
There was no indication that the University had anything to do with it.

dude. the title is "police attack students at the university of pittsburgh.

Obviously. I'm saying that there's no indication that the University wanted the students off the campus.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
belle
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9/23/2010 8:25:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 8:23:26 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 9/23/2010 8:21:55 PM, belle wrote:
At 9/23/2010 8:19:45 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
There was no indication that the University had anything to do with it.

dude. the title is "police attack students at the university of pittsburgh.

Obviously. I'm saying that there's no indication that the University wanted the students off the campus.

i think the police entering the campus and asking them to leave is indication of that. unless you think bands of police roam around and decide to kick people out of wherever they happen to be for no reason at all :P
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/24/2010 2:27:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 6:55:48 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:


How can you watch this and still support the police.:

Because not all police behave in this manner.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/24/2010 2:28:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 6:58:26 PM, belle wrote:
two words bro: hasty generalization. remember that vid of the girl drowning puppies? how can you watch that and support little girls!?:

I love, Belle. Logic is her strong suit.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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9/24/2010 2:30:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am attacking ALL cops whether they are nice people or not. I don't care if there are some cops that haven't directly inflicted injustice, their very existence is an injustice!:

Dearest, Geo

Please die.

Fin
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
InsertNameHere
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9/24/2010 2:39:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/23/2010 6:58:26 PM, belle wrote:
two words bro: hasty generalization. remember that vid of the girl drowning puppies? how can you watch that and support little girls!?

Belle wins this thread.