Total Posts:44|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Trump and Carson "truth meter" vs Clinton San

TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 6:30:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
OK. So how are candidates doing on the truth-o-meter.

Trump
http://www.politifact.com...
00% True
05% Mostly True
10% Half True
06% Mostly False
27% False
11% Pants on Fire
Not looking good for Trump

Carson
http://www.politifact.com...
00% True
00% Mostly True
19$ Half True
25% Mostly False
44% False
13% Pants on Fire
Hum...

How about those democrats?

Clinton
http://www.politifact.com...
39% True
29% Mostly True
26% Half True
22% Mostly False
15% False
02% Pants on Fire

Sanders
http://www.politifact.com...
18% True
38% Mostly True
18% Half True
12% Mostly False
15% False
00% Pants on Fire

Well, thoughts? I mean aside from the usual whining about "LIEberal media and all".
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 6:48:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 6:30:57 PM, TBR wrote:
OK. So how are candidates doing on the truth-o-meter.

Trump
http://www.politifact.com...
00% True
05% Mostly True
10% Half True
06% Mostly False
27% False
11% Pants on Fire
Not looking good for Trump

Carson
http://www.politifact.com...
00% True
00% Mostly True
19$ Half True
25% Mostly False
44% False
13% Pants on Fire
Hum...

How about those democrats?

Clinton
http://www.politifact.com...
39% True
29% Mostly True
26% Half True
22% Mostly False
15% False
02% Pants on Fire

Sanders
http://www.politifact.com...
18% True
38% Mostly True
18% Half True
12% Mostly False
15% False
00% Pants on Fire


Well, thoughts? I mean aside from the usual whining about "LIEberal media and all".

hahahahaah, besides the obvious cherry picking considering the nature of the questions evaluated, I looked at one Trump "Pants on fire" example.

If indeed his website STATED something, whether he knew about it or not.. he NEVER SAID IT WITH HIS LIPS.... so when he claims "I NEVER SAID THAT , it's not even close to the level of , say a Bill Clinton dodge.

Just like if a person came up to me on the street and claimed I "said" anything I TYPE out on DDO, I will reliably say "NO. I did NOT say that!"
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 6:54:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
hahahahaah, besides the obvious cherry picking considering the nature of the questions evaluated, I looked at one Trump "Pants on fire" example.

If indeed his website STATED something, whether he knew about it or not.. he NEVER SAID IT WITH HIS LIPS.... so when he claims "I NEVER SAID THAT , it's not even close to the level of , say a Bill Clinton dodge.

Just like if a person came up to me on the street and claimed I "said" anything I TYPE out on DDO, I will reliably say "NO. I did NOT say that!"

I had no doubt this would be the common criticism. On this one, I would disagree. He, Trump, endorsed the content of the site, in effect "saying" it himself. A "good leader" would correct the statement, not just deny.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 6:59:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 6:54:57 PM, TBR wrote:
hahahahaah, besides the obvious cherry picking considering the nature of the questions evaluated, I looked at one Trump "Pants on fire" example.

If indeed his website STATED something, whether he knew about it or not.. he NEVER SAID IT WITH HIS LIPS.... so when he claims "I NEVER SAID THAT , it's not even close to the level of , say a Bill Clinton dodge.

Just like if a person came up to me on the street and claimed I "said" anything I TYPE out on DDO, I will reliably say "NO. I did NOT say that!"

I had no doubt this would be the common criticism. On this one, I would disagree. He, Trump, endorsed the content of the site, in effect "saying" it himself. A "good leader" would correct the statement, not just deny.

In effect eh? Sounds rational, but politics is actually a game of semantics, which the Clintons are masters of.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:05:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

In effect eh? Sounds rational, but politics is actually a game of semantics, which the Clintons are masters of.

Any others you have issue with, or content with just sticking with the line "its all the medias fault"? I thought Republicans were all the non-whiner, right?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:06:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:05:25 PM, TBR wrote:

In effect eh? Sounds rational, but politics is actually a game of semantics, which the Clintons are masters of.

Any others you have issue with, or content with just sticking with the line "its all the medias fault"? I thought Republicans were all the non-whiner, right?

All politics is whining.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:09:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I disagree. I find that attitude very jaded. Leads to the sort of "both party's are the same" sort of crap.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:09:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:06:59 PM, TBR wrote:
How about this Carson one?
http://www.politifact.com...

Heh, yah, politicians sometimes forget which versions of the truth to say.

But this is really all cherry picking. If you evaluate meaningless statements like, "I had a tuna sandwich for lunch" of course you are going to look honest statistically.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:10:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:09:37 PM, TBR wrote:
I disagree. I find that attitude very jaded. Leads to the sort of "both party's are the same" sort of crap.

Umm well....
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:11:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
But this is really all cherry picking. If you evaluate meaningless statements like, "I had a tuna sandwich for lunch" of course you are going to look honest statistically.

That is not how they pick the statements to evaluate. Again, just saying "liberal bent" does little to address the issue.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:15:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:11:01 PM, TBR wrote:
But this is really all cherry picking. If you evaluate meaningless statements like, "I had a tuna sandwich for lunch" of course you are going to look honest statistically.

That is not how they pick the statements to evaluate. Again, just saying "liberal bent" does little to address the issue.

I really wouldn't put such emphasis, politicians are by large stupid, and regurgitate things that seem true but really are not. Because the public is also stupid, it's not really an issue. A politician's main goal is not to be a beacon, but to be an inspiration, even if that means a colorful version of the world. That's the way politics in this country just is.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:17:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I really wouldn't put such emphasis, politicians are by large stupid, and regurgitate things that seem true but really are not. Because the public is also stupid, it's not really an issue. A politician's main goal is not to be a beacon, but to be an inspiration, even if that means a colorful version of the world. That's the way politics in this country just is.


I see, so you accept the deception because your standards are low for politicians. That is interesting.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:18:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:17:26 PM, TBR wrote:
I really wouldn't put such emphasis, politicians are by large stupid, and regurgitate things that seem true but really are not. Because the public is also stupid, it's not really an issue. A politician's main goal is not to be a beacon, but to be an inspiration, even if that means a colorful version of the world. That's the way politics in this country just is.


I see, so you accept the deception because your standards are low for politicians. That is interesting.

Why do you think the general opinions on the approval of Congress are usually in the teens?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:19:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:17:26 PM, TBR wrote:
I really wouldn't put such emphasis, politicians are by large stupid, and regurgitate things that seem true but really are not. Because the public is also stupid, it's not really an issue. A politician's main goal is not to be a beacon, but to be an inspiration, even if that means a colorful version of the world. That's the way politics in this country just is.


I see, so you accept the deception because your standards are low for politicians. That is interesting.

http://www.gallup.com...
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:21:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why do you think the general opinions on the approval of Congress are usually in the teens?

I am not entirely disagreeing with you about the quality of politicians, but I do call it jaded, I do call it dismissive of reality.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:22:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:21:45 PM, TBR wrote:
Why do you think the general opinions on the approval of Congress are usually in the teens?

I am not entirely disagreeing with you about the quality of politicians, but I do call it jaded, I do call it dismissive of reality.

Well politicians can't afford to dismiss the unreality of the jaded voter. Bush still has not figured this out.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:32:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:21:45 PM, TBR wrote:
Why do you think the general opinions on the approval of Congress are usually in the teens?

I am not entirely disagreeing with you about the quality of politicians, but I do call it jaded, I do call it dismissive of reality.

One other thing, I am totally convinced of is that Democracy and the free market can't work well if there is a huge national educational inequality. The battle between the knows and the knows not, is much greater than the battle between the haves and the haves not.

If it really has come to the point where the Democrats were right all along, that people are just too stupid to know what is good for them (free market) or are just too stupid to make responsible choices (democracy) then a huge, crony, regulation heavy government is the only way to go to keep the barbarians from sacking Rome. I would then support the tyranny of an oligarchy of Democrats if the GOP were to dissolve into nothing, just for the sake of survival; forget prosperity.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:40:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
One other thing, I am totally convinced of is that Democracy and the free market can't work well if there is a huge national educational inequality. The battle between the knows and the knows not, is much greater than the battle between the haves and the haves not.


I agree with this. Many you or I will run across in the types of forums we visit will have good access to information. Most Americans simply have no idea what is happening, and vote on very poor information.

If it really has come to the point where the Democrats were right all along, that people are just too stupid to know what is good for them (free market) or are just too stupid to make responsible choices (democracy) then a huge, crony, regulation heavy government is the only way to go to keep the barbarians from sacking Rome. I would then support the tyranny of an oligarchy of Democrats if the GOP were to dissolve into nothing, just for the sake of survival; forget prosperity.

We could argue about what and how "prosperity" is achieved, but I will grudging agree that "people are stupid". On the whole, people make lousily decisions. This is not left/right, you find it everywhere.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:54:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Politifact is a load of biased garbage.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 7:57:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:54:23 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Politifact is a load of biased garbage.

Yup. Two for two. Its all the "liberal medias" fault. Got it!
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 8:01:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:57:51 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2015 7:54:23 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Politifact is a load of biased garbage.

Yup. Two for two. Its all the "liberal medias" fault. Got it!

So... Trump saying we have "the highest tax rate in the world" is true then, right?
http://www.politifact.com...

Must be. If the Liberal media is just always the problem, and Trump is just right, guess its true than.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,078
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 8:05:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:57:51 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2015 7:54:23 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Politifact is a load of biased garbage.

Yup. Two for two. Its all the "liberal media's" fault. Got it!

I would bet money that the media has an overall liberal bias. And I would win that bet pretty easily. Year after year they consistently levy way more criticism upon the GOP and its presidential candidates than the Left. This year's media coverage of the GOP candidates has pretty much laid to rest the idea of an unbiased media. Politifact is a single component to a much larger machine. Marco Rubio summed it up fairly well when he called the media "the Ultimate SuperPAC."
How to determine that the media has a Liberal bias: see whether or not its opinion on virtually all things reported is flavored by the assumption that liberal values are the way to go and if it gives regard to statistics favoring Liberal positions over statistics favoring Conservative positions.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 8:10:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 7:40:10 PM, TBR wrote:
One other thing, I am totally convinced of is that Democracy and the free market can't work well if there is a huge national educational inequality. The battle between the knows and the knows not, is much greater than the battle between the haves and the haves not.


I agree with this. Many you or I will run across in the types of forums we visit will have good access to information. Most Americans simply have no idea what is happening, and vote on very poor information.

If it really has come to the point where the Democrats were right all along, that people are just too stupid to know what is good for them (free market) or are just too stupid to make responsible choices (democracy) then a huge, crony, regulation heavy government is the only way to go to keep the barbarians from sacking Rome. I would then support the tyranny of an oligarchy of Democrats if the GOP were to dissolve into nothing, just for the sake of survival; forget prosperity.

We could argue about what and how "prosperity" is achieved, but I will grudging agree that "people are stupid". On the whole, people make lousily decisions. This is not left/right, you find it everywhere.

But the left are the only ones providing the groundwork solution to control the stupidity of the masses with a bloated, tyrannical government. They already have the propaganda in place to make it happen.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 8:10:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The overall media is "liberal" because FOX has the conservative media monopoly. There's more room for liberally biased networks because of it.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 8:11:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Lets say I buy that. What is your response to the Carson link?

Look. I'm not going to change your impression of the media, I am not going to change your political ideology, but as this dovetails the other discussion we were having, let me ask it this way. Liberal media or not, that does nothing to improve your candidates. They suck, and are rejected by the population. That's the problem, not all the deflection in the WORLD can fix the bad choices the GOP makes.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 8:19:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 8:10:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
The overall media is "liberal" because FOX has the conservative media monopoly. There's more room for liberally biased networks because of it.

Liberal news is more entertaining. Just look at the difference in cleavage. Nuff said.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 8:20:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 8:19:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/30/2015 8:10:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
The overall media is "liberal" because FOX has the conservative media monopoly. There's more room for liberally biased networks because of it.

Liberal news is more entertaining. Just look at the difference in cleavage. Nuff said.

You got to be kidding. Fox is all about the eye-candy.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 8:20:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 8:20:22 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2015 8:19:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/30/2015 8:10:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
The overall media is "liberal" because FOX has the conservative media monopoly. There's more room for liberally biased networks because of it.

Liberal news is more entertaining. Just look at the difference in cleavage. Nuff said.

You got to be kidding. Fox is all about the eye-candy.

Got pics?
TBR
Posts: 9,991
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/30/2015 8:22:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/30/2015 8:20:55 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/30/2015 8:20:22 PM, TBR wrote:
At 10/30/2015 8:19:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 10/30/2015 8:10:44 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
The overall media is "liberal" because FOX has the conservative media monopoly. There's more room for liberally biased networks because of it.

Liberal news is more entertaining. Just look at the difference in cleavage. Nuff said.

You got to be kidding. Fox is all about the eye-candy.

Got pics?

https://www.google.com...

Funny but true. Grew up with one of them.