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The freer the market the freer...

comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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9/24/2010 3:38:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The freer the market the freer the people?

Is this really true?

I beg to remind you of the history during the industrial age; there were men that had more power then the government, and it caused them to make the rules.
When the rules were set for profit, people suffered.
Long hours, low pay, and bad conditions were a product of the free market, so why is it the best thing in the world.

A well regulated free market would have to be ideal.
The people can not regulate the market.

So, what do you think.
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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9/24/2010 4:00:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Not an answer. If you are going to ask us a question about free markets, you should clarify what you mean by them.
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InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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9/24/2010 4:01:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 3:38:36 PM, comoncents wrote:
The freer the market the freer the people?


Is this really true?

I beg to remind you of the history during the industrial age; there were men that had more power then the government, and it caused them to make the rules.
When the rules were set for profit, people suffered.
Long hours, low pay, and bad conditions were a product of the free market, so why is it the best thing in the world.


A well regulated free market would have to be ideal.
The people can not regulate the market.

So, what do you think.

I'm not sure exactly how this works, but I'm pretty sure corporations are created due to government involvement in the economy. Also, if a person doesn't like the working conditions at a specific workplace they can quit and go somewhere else. With all their employees quitting you'd think that most businesses would be inclined to follow fair labour practices so they don't go bankrupt from losing all their employees. I'm in the process of doing a debate on this stuff. Check it out.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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9/24/2010 4:02:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:00:23 PM, Sieben wrote:
Not an answer. If you are going to ask us a question about free markets, you should clarify what you mean by them.

I did not consider uneducated people trying to answer, sorry.
I am positive that you have the internet so educate yourself.

Anyone who has the same dumb question... look it up, thanks.
Sobriquet
Posts: 390
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9/24/2010 4:06:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:02:49 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 9/24/2010 4:00:23 PM, Sieben wrote:
Not an answer. If you are going to ask us a question about free markets, you should clarify what you mean by them.

I did not consider uneducated people trying to answer, sorry.
I am positive that you have the internet so educate yourself.

Anyone who has the same dumb question... look it up, thanks.

Take it easy man...ad hominems are unnecessary.
"Bullsh!t is unavoidable whenever circumstance require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about."
— Harry G. Frankfurt
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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9/24/2010 4:07:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:01:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 9/24/2010 3:38:36 PM, comoncents wrote:
The freer the market the freer the people?


Is this really true?

I beg to remind you of the history during the industrial age; there were men that had more power then the government, and it caused them to make the rules.
When the rules were set for profit, people suffered.
Long hours, low pay, and bad conditions were a product of the free market, so why is it the best thing in the world.


A well regulated free market would have to be ideal.
The people can not regulate the market.

So, what do you think.

I'm not sure exactly how this works, but I'm pretty sure corporations are created due to government involvement in the economy. Also, if a person doesn't like the working conditions at a specific workplace they can quit and go somewhere else.

That was not the case at in the industrials beginnings.
People could not go elsewhere.
Children were put to work.

With all their employees quitting you'd think that most businesses would be inclined to follow fair labour practices

They will just find new people.
Not everyone would walk out.
Think about the strikes in history.

so they don't go bankrupt from losing all their employees.
I'm in the process of doing a debate on this stuff. Check it out.

I will but history suggest that a free market is dangerous.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/24/2010 4:07:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:02:49 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 9/24/2010 4:00:23 PM, Sieben wrote:
Not an answer. If you are going to ask us a question about free markets, you should clarify what you mean by them.

I did not consider uneducated people trying to answer, sorry.
I am positive that you have the internet so educate yourself.

Anyone who has the same dumb question... look it up, thanks.

Comon, Sieben is an extremely bright guy, of course he knows what a free market is. If you don't understand the nature of his question, that reflects poorly on you, not him.
comoncents
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9/24/2010 4:08:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:06:27 PM, Sobriquet wrote:
At 9/24/2010 4:02:49 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 9/24/2010 4:00:23 PM, Sieben wrote:
Not an answer. If you are going to ask us a question about free markets, you should clarify what you mean by them.

I did not consider Uninformed people trying to answer, sorry.
I am positive that you have the internet so educate yourself.

Anyone who has the same dumb question... look it up, thanks.

Take it easy man...ad hominems are unnecessary.

Uninformed.
That is a better way to say it.
comoncents
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9/24/2010 4:12:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:07:52 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/24/2010 4:02:49 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 9/24/2010 4:00:23 PM, Sieben wrote:
Not an answer. If you are going to ask us a question about free markets, you should clarify what you mean by them.

I did not consider uneducated people trying to answer, sorry.
I am positive that you have the internet so educate yourself.

Anyone who has the same dumb question... look it up, thanks.

Comon, Sieben is an extremely bright guy, of course he knows what a free market is. If you don't understand the nature of his question, that reflects poorly on you, not him.

I do not think he is but everyone has their opinion.
Usually a person asks a question like this,

"What do you mean by free market?"

That is an entirely different way then,

"Do you know what a free market is? I bet you don't."

That, with the way he enters in with no historical respect in other threads leads me to no respect his posts.
That's it.
Agnapostate
Posts: 36
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9/24/2010 4:34:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The popular understanding of "free market" structure is one of minimal or eliminated governmental managerial intervention in the economy. I don't believe that this aim is compatible with capitalism, which is dependent on state support to correct market failure in every area from welfare state policies to Keynesian demand management, but I do believe that it is compatible with market socialism, such as that advocated by the anarchists Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Benjamin Tucker, or the republican market socialists Robert Dahl, Jaroslav Vanek, and David Ellerman.
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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9/24/2010 4:35:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:12:00 PM, comoncents wrote:

That, with the way he enters in with no historical respect in other threads leads me to no respect his posts.
That's it.

You gave me one link on some private detective company in America. I read it. I asked you how it pertained to law in anarchy. You didn't answer.

On the other hand, I give you about 5-6 links on historical anarchy. You didn't answer.

I don't believe that you respect history.
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InsertNameHere
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9/24/2010 4:37:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:34:50 PM, Agnapostate wrote:
The popular understanding of "free market" structure is one of minimal or eliminated governmental managerial intervention in the economy. I don't believe that this aim is compatible with capitalism, which is dependent on state support to correct market failure in every area from welfare state policies to Keynesian demand management, but I do believe that it is compatible with market socialism, such as that advocated by the anarchists Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Benjamin Tucker, or the republican market socialists Robert Dahl, Jaroslav Vanek, and David Ellerman.

Wtf? As soon as you add regulation it's no longer a free market.
comoncents
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9/24/2010 4:37:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:33:57 PM, Sieben wrote:
I'm asking you because I am 99% sure you have some straw man definition of the free market in mind.

Alright.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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9/24/2010 4:38:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:35:32 PM, Sieben wrote:
At 9/24/2010 4:12:00 PM, comoncents wrote:

That, with the way he enters in with no historical respect in other threads leads me to no respect his posts.
That's it.

You gave me one link on some private detective company in America. I read it. I asked you how it pertained to law in anarchy. You didn't answer.


I answered.

On the other hand, I give you about 5-6 links on historical anarchy. You didn't answer.


I answered.

I don't believe that you respect history.

You would "believe" wrong.
comoncents
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9/24/2010 4:41:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:34:50 PM, Agnapostate wrote:
The popular understanding of "free market" structure is one of minimal or eliminated governmental managerial intervention in the economy.

Some think that minimal means, "regulated market", but I know where your coming from 100%!
(I only say this b/c some here want to be sticklers to definitions; I agree with you though)

I don't believe that this aim is compatible with capitalism, which is dependent on state support to correct market failure in every area from welfare state policies to Keynesian demand management, but I do believe that it is compatible with market socialism, such as that advocated by the anarchists Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Benjamin Tucker, or the republican market socialists Robert Dahl, Jaroslav Vanek, and David Ellerman.

Cool.
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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9/24/2010 4:43:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:38:06 PM, Sieben wrote:
When you refuse to engage your opponents, you have already lost.

I am not fighting.
What are you talking about "lost".

I am just going to ignore you like I would one of my children.
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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9/24/2010 4:46:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 4:43:16 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 9/24/2010 4:38:06 PM, Sieben wrote:
When you refuse to engage your opponents, you have already lost.

I am not fighting.
Thas what I said.
What are you talking about "lost".
The ideological quesiton
I am just going to ignore you like I would one of my children.
You shouldn't ignore children :(
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Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/24/2010 5:40:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 3:38:36 PM, comoncents wrote:
The freer the market the freer the people?


Is this really true?

I beg to remind you of the history during the industrial age; there were men that had more power then the government, and it caused them to make the rules.
When the rules were set for profit, people suffered.
Long hours, low pay, and bad conditions were a product of the free market
No, they preceded the semi-free market. The semi free market set them on a course to improvement. If this were not true, no one would have abandoned their farms for these industrial institutions.

A well regulated free market would have to be ideal.
A frozen vaporized puddle?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
comoncents
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9/24/2010 5:45:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 5:40:33 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 9/24/2010 3:38:36 PM, comoncents wrote:
The freer the market the freer the people?


Is this really true?

I beg to remind you of the history during the industrial age; there were men that had more power then the government, and it caused them to make the rules.
When the rules were set for profit, people suffered.
Long hours, low pay, and bad conditions were a product of the free market
No, they preceded the semi-free market.

Please explain this a little more. I think I see where you are going with it, but letting you explain will help.

The semi free market set them on a course to improvement. If this were not true, no one would have abandoned their farms for these industrial institutions.

A well regulated free market would have to be ideal.
A frozen vaporized puddle?

Or a slightly regulated market.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/24/2010 5:49:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 5:45:07 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 9/24/2010 5:40:33 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 9/24/2010 3:38:36 PM, comoncents wrote:
The freer the market the freer the people?


Is this really true?

I beg to remind you of the history during the industrial age; there were men that had more power then the government, and it caused them to make the rules.
When the rules were set for profit, people suffered.
Long hours, low pay, and bad conditions were a product of the free market
No, they preceded the semi-free market.

Please explain this a little more. I think I see where you are going with it
There wasn't some magic worker's paradise before the industrial age. Life sucked. There were long hours on the farm, very few rewards, and the conditions were bad enough that life expectancy was half of today's.

Or a slightly regulated market.
You seem to have retreated from "Free." Although to the extent that there is regulation, the transactions that occur there cease to be "market" (voluntary and consensual) transactions.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/24/2010 5:50:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 3:38:36 PM, comoncents wrote:
The freer the market the freer the people?

Is this really true?

Who has ever even made that claim?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
comoncents
Posts: 5,647
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9/24/2010 5:58:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/24/2010 5:49:35 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 9/24/2010 5:45:07 PM, comoncents wrote:
At 9/24/2010 5:40:33 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 9/24/2010 3:38:36 PM, comoncents wrote:
The freer the market the freer the people?


Is this really true?

I beg to remind you of the history during the industrial age; there were men that had more power then the government, and it caused them to make the rules.
When the rules were set for profit, people suffered.
Long hours, low pay, and bad conditions were a product of the free market
No, they preceded the semi-free market.

Please explain this a little more. I think I see where you are going with it
There wasn't some magic worker's paradise before the industrial age. Life sucked. There were long hours on the farm, very few rewards, and the conditions were bad enough that life expectancy was half of today's.

Or a slightly regulated market.
You seem to have retreated from "Free." Although to the extent that there is regulation, the transactions that occur there cease to be "market" (voluntary and consensual) transactions.

Ok,Ok.
I see, I see.
Thanks.