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"The GOP has been hijacked" (Rant)

Vox_Veritas
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11/7/2015 3:34:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"The GOP has been hijacked by extremists!"
"The GOP been taken over by global warming deniers, creationists, and racists!"
"When I was a kid the GOP was a much different party! Today it's a party of ignorance!"

If you're on a debate website where politics are heavily discussed you've probably heard a claim like the above. Perhaps you personally made this claim.
Basically the idea is that the GOP has become a party ruled by "extremists" and "radicals". It's racist because it advocates the deportation of 11/12 million illegal immigrants. It's anti-science because it has a large Creationist/AGW Skeptic base. It's the party of corporate interests because its advocates want to tax the rich less, have less corporate and environmental regulation, and replace the progressive income tax with the flat tax.

First, Creationism. Here's a fact that most people don't seem to realize: Creationists didn't just pop up out nowhere 25 years ago. Christopher Columbus was a creationist, as was every sailor accompanying him. The natives encountered by him, his crew, and later European explorers and settlers believed that the Earth was created by something, though the specifics varied from tribe to tribe. Until Charles Darwin nearly 100% of people were creationists. The Founding Fathers, even the 3 deist founding fathers, were Creationists. After Charles Darwin many churches continued to defy Evolution. In the 19th century the Christian community opposed Creationism. This remained the case in the 20th century (and into the 21st century).
CREATIONISTS ARE NOTHING NEW! They've been around literally as long as humans have, present in both main US parties at some point or another. The issue here is that there are still Creationists today, and that most are Republican (considering that the Democratic Party is now under the control of people who believe in Evolution it shouldn't be surprising that many joined the other party). It is, of course, unfair to paint a people who were until very recently the norm extremists because recently they've become the minority. They're no more "extreme" than they've been in the past.
As for economics, the GOP has favored free market capitalism since the days of Herbert Hoover. They opposed FDR's economic interventionist policies. More than 85 years ago they held to basically the same economic philosophy as they do today.
Global Warming has stepped into the spotlight only in the past 30/40 years. Before that few people believed in global warming. To continue to hold what was 40 years ago the default position is not extremist.
It has also been the case that people have, since the beginning of the USA, advocated for the government to enforce its laws, which includes laws on immigration. Suddenly they're extremist and racist for continuing to hold this position?

I know what's really going on: the Dems are growing more radical, pushing the "standard" more in one direction. Those who remain where they are will find themselves further and further removed from the ever-moving standard and as a result they're increasingly branded as extremists though they're no more extreme than they've always been. This is blatantly unfair and I wish that Americans would recognize it as such.
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TBR
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11/7/2015 3:56:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago

First, Creationism. Here's a fact that most people don't seem to realize: Creationists didn't just pop up out nowhere 25 years ago. Christopher Columbus was a creationist, as was every sailor accompanying him. The natives encountered by him, his crew, and later European explorers and settlers believed that the Earth was created by something, though the specifics varied from tribe to tribe. Until Charles Darwin nearly 100% of people were creationists. The Founding Fathers, even the 3 deist founding fathers, were Creationists. After Charles Darwin many churches continued to defy Evolution. In the 19th century the Christian community opposed Creationism. This remained the case in the 20th century (and into the 21st century).

OK. So sailors living ~500 years ago. That is who you want to side with on scientific development? OK. No. Not extreme in any way.

CREATIONISTS ARE NOTHING NEW! They've been around literally as long as humans have, present in both main US parties at some point or another. The issue here is that there are still Creationists today, and that most are Republican (considering that the Democratic Party is now under the control of people who believe in Evolution it shouldn't be surprising that many joined the other party). It is, of course, unfair to paint a people who were until very recently the norm extremists because recently they've become the minority. They're no more "extreme" than they've been in the past.

Yup. And intelligent people accept new data. You know. Grow?

As for economics, the GOP has favored free market capitalism since the days of Herbert Hoover. They opposed FDR's economic interventionist policies. More than 85 years ago they held to basically the same economic philosophy as they do today.

We could go round and round about this. Perhaps we will.

Global Warming has stepped into the spotlight only in the past 30/40 years. Before that few people believed in global warming. To continue to hold what was 40 years ago the default position is not extremist.

Yea. Yea it is. Accepting the science from... you know... actual scientist is rational.

It has also been the case that people have, since the beginning of the USA, advocated for the government to enforce its laws, which includes laws on immigration. Suddenly they're extremist and racist for continuing to hold this position?

Attempting to kick out 12-14 million people is extreme. Ask Raegan.
TBR
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11/7/2015 4:03:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
You premise seems to be your party is somewhere between 50 and 500 years out of step with society, and that's a good thing?
Skepsikyma
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11/7/2015 4:20:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 3:34:23 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
First, Creationism. Here's a fact that most people don't seem to realize: Creationists didn't just pop up out nowhere 25 years ago. Christopher Columbus was a creationist, as was every sailor accompanying him. The natives encountered by him, his crew, and later European explorers and settlers believed that the Earth was created by something, though the specifics varied from tribe to tribe. Until Charles Darwin nearly 100% of people were creationists. The Founding Fathers, even the 3 deist founding fathers, were Creationists. After Charles Darwin many churches continued to defy Evolution. In the 19th century the Christian community opposed Creationism. This remained the case in the 20th century (and into the 21st century).
CREATIONISTS ARE NOTHING NEW! They've been around literally as long as humans have, present in both main US parties at some point or another. The issue here is that there are still Creationists today, and that most are Republican (considering that the Democratic Party is now under the control of people who believe in Evolution it shouldn't be surprising that many joined the other party). It is, of course, unfair to paint a people who were until very recently the norm extremists because recently they've become the minority. They're no more "extreme" than they've been in the past.

... this exact same argument could be used in support of the belief that black people are inherently inferior to white people. Look:

First, Racism. Here's a fact that most people don't seem to realize: Racists didn't just pop up out nowhere 25 years ago. Christopher Columbus was a racist, as was every sailor accompanying him. The natives encountered by him, his crew, and later European explorers and settlers believed that their race was superior, though the specifics varied from race to race. Until the civil rights movement nearly 100% of people were racists. The Founding Fathers, even the abolitionist ones, were racists. After the civil rights movement many churches continued to defy racial integration. In the 19th century the Christian community opposed race parity.

[This remained the case in the 20th century (and into the 21st century).] -> this actually isn't the case for evolution. Catholicism, for example, reconciled itself with evolutionary science pretty early on (making it official in 1950). That's over half of the Christians in the world. Those who think that evolution is irreconcilable with Christianity are a minority.

RACISTS ARE NOTHING NEW! They've been around literally as long as humans have, present in both main US parties at some point or another. The issue here is that there are still racists today, and that most are Republican (considering that the Democratic Party is now under the control of people who believe in racial equality it shouldn't be surprising that many joined the other party). It is, of course, unfair to paint a people who were until very recently the norm extremists because recently they've become the minority. They're no more "extreme" than they've been in the past.
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Vox_Veritas
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11/7/2015 4:24:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 4:20:43 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 11/7/2015 3:34:23 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
First, Creationism. Here's a fact that most people don't seem to realize: Creationists didn't just pop up out nowhere 25 years ago. Christopher Columbus was a creationist, as was every sailor accompanying him. The natives encountered by him, his crew, and later European explorers and settlers believed that the Earth was created by something, though the specifics varied from tribe to tribe. Until Charles Darwin nearly 100% of people were creationists. The Founding Fathers, even the 3 deist founding fathers, were Creationists. After Charles Darwin many churches continued to defy Evolution. In the 19th century the Christian community opposed Creationism. This remained the case in the 20th century (and into the 21st century).
CREATIONISTS ARE NOTHING NEW! They've been around literally as long as humans have, present in both main US parties at some point or another. The issue here is that there are still Creationists today, and that most are Republican (considering that the Democratic Party is now under the control of people who believe in Evolution it shouldn't be surprising that many joined the other party). It is, of course, unfair to paint a people who were until very recently the norm extremists because recently they've become the minority. They're no more "extreme" than they've been in the past.

... this exact same argument could be used in support of the belief that black people are inherently inferior to white people. Look:

First, Racism. Here's a fact that most people don't seem to realize: Racists didn't just pop up out nowhere 25 years ago. Christopher Columbus was a racist, as was every sailor accompanying him. The natives encountered by him, his crew, and later European explorers and settlers believed that their race was superior, though the specifics varied from race to race. Until the civil rights movement nearly 100% of people were racists. The Founding Fathers, even the abolitionist ones, were racists. After the civil rights movement many churches continued to defy racial integration. In the 19th century the Christian community opposed race parity.

[This remained the case in the 20th century (and into the 21st century).] -> this actually isn't the case for evolution. Catholicism, for example, reconciled itself with evolutionary science pretty early on (making it official in 1950). That's over half of the Christians in the world. Those who think that evolution is irreconcilable with Christianity are a minority.

RACISTS ARE NOTHING NEW! They've been around literally as long as humans have, present in both main US parties at some point or another. The issue here is that there are still racists today, and that most are Republican (considering that the Democratic Party is now under the control of people who believe in racial equality it shouldn't be surprising that many joined the other party). It is, of course, unfair to paint a people who were until very recently the norm extremists because recently they've become the minority. They're no more "extreme" than they've been in the past.

I can't really argue with this, I suppose.
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TBR
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11/7/2015 4:29:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Washing your hands before performing surgery is liberal radicalism. Whats wrong with these liberals. Thomas Jefferson never washed his hands.
000ike
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11/7/2015 4:44:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 3:34:23 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
"The GOP has been hijacked by extremists!"
"The GOP been taken over by global warming deniers, creationists, and racists!"
"When I was a kid the GOP was a much different party! Today it's a party of ignorance!"

If you're on a debate website where politics are heavily discussed you've probably heard a claim like the above. Perhaps you personally made this claim.
Basically the idea is that the GOP has become a party ruled by "extremists" and "radicals". It's racist because it advocates the deportation of 11/12 million illegal immigrants. It's anti-science because it has a large Creationist/AGW Skeptic base. It's the party of corporate interests because its advocates want to tax the rich less, have less corporate and environmental regulation, and replace the progressive income tax with the flat tax.

First, Creationism. Here's a fact that most people don't seem to realize: Creationists didn't just pop up out nowhere 25 years ago. Christopher Columbus was a creationist, as was every sailor accompanying him. The natives encountered by him, his crew, and later European explorers and settlers believed that the Earth was created by something, though the specifics varied from tribe to tribe. Until Charles Darwin nearly 100% of people were creationists. The Founding Fathers, even the 3 deist founding fathers, were Creationists. After Charles Darwin many churches continued to defy Evolution. In the 19th century the Christian community opposed Creationism. This remained the case in the 20th century (and into the 21st century).
CREATIONISTS ARE NOTHING NEW! They've been around literally as long as humans have, present in both main US parties at some point or another. The issue here is that there are still Creationists today, and that most are Republican (considering that the Democratic Party is now under the control of people who believe in Evolution it shouldn't be surprising that many joined the other party). It is, of course, unfair to paint a people who were until very recently the norm extremists because recently they've become the minority. They're no more "extreme" than they've been in the past.
As for economics, the GOP has favored free market capitalism since the days of Herbert Hoover. They opposed FDR's economic interventionist policies. More than 85 years ago they held to basically the same economic philosophy as they do today.
Global Warming has stepped into the spotlight only in the past 30/40 years. Before that few people believed in global warming. To continue to hold what was 40 years ago the default position is not extremist.
It has also been the case that people have, since the beginning of the USA, advocated for the government to enforce its laws, which includes laws on immigration. Suddenly they're extremist and racist for continuing to hold this position?

I know what's really going on: the Dems are growing more radical, pushing the "standard" more in one direction. Those who remain where they are will find themselves further and further removed from the ever-moving standard and as a result they're increasingly branded as extremists though they're no more extreme than they've always been. This is blatantly unfair and I wish that Americans would recognize it as such.

So basically, if a belief is old, it is by virtue of its age, perfectly moderate.

Is your thinking really this fuzzy?
If so, I pity you.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
YYW
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11/7/2015 4:49:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 4:29:02 AM, TBR wrote:
Washing your hands before performing surgery is liberal radicalism. Whats wrong with these liberals. Thomas Jefferson never washed his hands.

Fvck germ theory....
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000ike
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11/7/2015 4:50:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Please consider Skep's response an elaborated and illustrated form of the above point. I would suggest that you should be able to have foreseen your error without it having to be spelled out for you,.... but let me not belabor the argument.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
TBR
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11/7/2015 6:01:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I know what's really going on: the Dems are growing more radical, pushing the "standard" more in one direction. Those who remain where they are will find themselves further and further removed from the ever-moving standard and as a result they're increasingly branded as extremists though they're no more extreme than they've always been. This is blatantly unfair and I wish that Americans would recognize it as such.

I know I should let this drop, but its just killing me.

Here is the thing. Forget all the other... stuff for sake of... well to not be mean. Lets just look at this last bit. Your issue is that the world is changing around you (and people like you) and it is unfair. OK. That is a thing.

Yea, the country is changing. It always has. Culture is different, it will keep being different. Christian white males will not get to have their Websters and Schlitz too. You may think it is "unfair" but, well, it is reality. You can dig your heals in, insist that you will never change no-matter what "Its Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" but it will not stop the inevitable change that has always driven the growth of society.
Bennett91
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11/7/2015 6:29:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 3:34:23 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:


There's no denying the party has become more theocratic.
EndarkenedRationalist
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11/7/2015 12:28:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It is the height of ignorance to claim the Democratic Party has moved. It hasn't. That's the whole problem. The Republican Party has been dragged to the right and the Democratic Party refuses to shift to the left. It defies reality to claim the opposite.
TheProphett
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11/7/2015 1:08:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 12:28:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
It is the height of ignorance to claim the Democratic Party has moved. It hasn't. That's the whole problem. The Republican Party has been dragged to the right and the Democratic Party refuses to shift to the left. It defies reality to claim the opposite.

Really, the Democrats are a bunch of wusses. They need to show more confidence and blow off the Republicans as morons.
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Vox_Veritas
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11/7/2015 4:16:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 6:01:51 AM, TBR wrote:
I know what's really going on: the Dems are growing more radical, pushing the "standard" more in one direction. Those who remain where they are will find themselves further and further removed from the ever-moving standard and as a result they're increasingly branded as extremists though they're no more extreme than they've always been. This is blatantly unfair and I wish that Americans would recognize it as such.

I know I should let this drop, but its just killing me.

Here is the thing. Forget all the other... stuff for sake of... well to not be mean. Lets just look at this last bit. Your issue is that the world is changing around you (and people like you) and it is unfair. OK. That is a thing.

Yea, the country is changing. It always has. Culture is different, it will keep being different. Christian white males will not get to have their Websters and Schlitz too. You may think it is "unfair" but, well, it is reality. You can dig your heals in, insist that you will never change no-matter what "Its Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" but it will not stop the inevitable change that has always driven the growth of society.

*sigh* What I'm saying is this:
The Dems are trying to push America further in their direction. Those who refuse to move (and may I add that in terms of political ideology they shouldn't have to move because their political beliefs are not inferior) are being labeled extremist. They say that the GOP has become "more extreme " when it's them who have moved.
No strawmen, please.
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Vox_Veritas
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11/7/2015 4:29:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
When Endark said is, by the way, false. GOP positions which were considered simply the equal and opposite half of the same coin (ideas which may in no way be equated to something like racism and are not inherently bad ideas) are now treated as horrible ideas by the media. Statistics will be cited constantly by the media which support X democratic position, completely ignoring similar research undertaken by Conservative think tanks (often of good repute) showing the opposite.
It's clear that SOMEBODY has moved further to the Left. To deny this is what is actually the "height of ignorance".
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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11/7/2015 4:31:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have been insulted and strawmanned in this thread; the people who have done so have demonstrated far more ignorance than I have.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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11/7/2015 4:50:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
@TBR Noah Webster was, by the way, a Christian white male.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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TBR
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11/7/2015 5:32:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 4:50:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
@TBR Noah Webster was, by the way, a Christian white male.

What of it? Seriously?

You doubling down on this trainwreck? Many conservative positions can be properly called "extreme". Want to consult Webster?
EndarkenedRationalist
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11/7/2015 5:36:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 4:29:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
When Endark said is, by the way, false. GOP positions which were considered simply the equal and opposite half of the same coin (ideas which may in no way be equated to something like racism and are not inherently bad ideas) are now treated as horrible ideas by the media. Statistics will be cited constantly by the media which support X democratic position, completely ignoring similar research undertaken by Conservative think tanks (often of good repute) showing the opposite.
It's clear that SOMEBODY has moved further to the Left. To deny this is what is actually the "height of ignorance".

Incorrect. The country hasn't shifted to the left. The party hasn't. Reagan couldn't get nominated by today's conservatives. Barry Goldwater condemned modern conservatives. It is the GOP that has been dragged to the right by the Tea Party. That's all there is to it.
Vox_Veritas
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11/7/2015 6:01:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 5:32:36 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/7/2015 4:50:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
@TBR Noah Webster was, by the way, a Christian white male.

What of it? Seriously?

You doubling down on this trainwreck? Many conservative positions can be properly called "extreme". Want to consult Webster?

Perhaps I misunderstood your original intent in bringing up Noah Webster then? If so, what did you mean?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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TBR
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11/7/2015 6:03:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 6:01:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/7/2015 5:32:36 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/7/2015 4:50:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
@TBR Noah Webster was, by the way, a Christian white male.

What of it? Seriously?

You doubling down on this trainwreck? Many conservative positions can be properly called "extreme". Want to consult Webster?

Perhaps I misunderstood your original intent in bringing up Noah Webster then? If so, what did you mean?

I see. My fault. It was "Webber" not "Wester". It was a quip about white subbernites. Schlitz is beer by-the-by.
Vox_Veritas
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11/7/2015 6:06:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 6:03:52 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/7/2015 6:01:16 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/7/2015 5:32:36 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/7/2015 4:50:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
@TBR Noah Webster was, by the way, a Christian white male.

What of it? Seriously?

You doubling down on this trainwreck? Many conservative positions can be properly called "extreme". Want to consult Webster?

Perhaps I misunderstood your original intent in bringing up Noah Webster then? If so, what did you mean?

I see. My fault. It was "Webber" not "Wester". It was a quip about white subbernites. Schlitz is beer by-the-by.

Ah. I see.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Fly
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11/9/2015 6:25:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 5:36:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 11/7/2015 4:29:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
When Endark said is, by the way, false. GOP positions which were considered simply the equal and opposite half of the same coin (ideas which may in no way be equated to something like racism and are not inherently bad ideas) are now treated as horrible ideas by the media. Statistics will be cited constantly by the media which support X democratic position, completely ignoring similar research undertaken by Conservative think tanks (often of good repute) showing the opposite.
It's clear that SOMEBODY has moved further to the Left. To deny this is what is actually the "height of ignorance".

Incorrect. The country hasn't shifted to the left. The party hasn't. Reagan couldn't get nominated by today's conservatives. Barry Goldwater condemned modern conservatives. It is the GOP that has been dragged to the right by the Tea Party. That's all there is to it.

Yes, when one examines Teddy Roosevelt, Hoover, Eisenhower, Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan, H.W. Bush, Dole, etc. it is quite clear that the present GOP is in the middle of an identity crisis, and its inability to compromise is of historic proportion.

I agree that the Tea Party is largely to blame, but who is to blame for the Tea Party? I would say that W. Bush policies along with the GOP majority in congress through 2006, and the undeniable damage left in its wake spawned this angry brand-- so angry that it is almost as angry with the mainstream GOP as it is with the Democrats.

And I think it is safe to say that even the OP has virtually admitted to the hollowness of his own claims here...
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Wylted
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11/10/2015 1:06:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 4:29:02 AM, TBR wrote:
Washing your hands before performing surgery is liberal radicalism. Whats wrong with these liberals. Thomas Jefferson never washed his hands.

With all the black chicks he was finger blasting, I sure hope this is a lie.
Wylted
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11/10/2015 1:10:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 12:28:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
It is the height of ignorance to claim the Democratic Party has moved. It hasn't. That's the whole problem. The Republican Party has been dragged to the right and the Democratic Party refuses to shift to the left. It defies reality to claim the opposite.

That depends how you define right and left. They both seem to be even more pro establishment and pro statist to me, than ever before.
Wylted
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11/10/2015 1:10:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 1:08:52 PM, TheProphett wrote:
At 11/7/2015 12:28:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
It is the height of ignorance to claim the Democratic Party has moved. It hasn't. That's the whole problem. The Republican Party has been dragged to the right and the Democratic Party refuses to shift to the left. It defies reality to claim the opposite.

Really, the Democrats are a bunch of wusses. They need to show more confidence and blow off the Republicans as morons.

We don't accept blowjobs from democrats
Wylted
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11/10/2015 1:12:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 5:32:36 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/7/2015 4:50:42 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
@TBR Noah Webster was, by the way, a Christian white male.

What of it? Seriously?

You doubling down on this trainwreck? Many conservative positions can be properly called "extreme". Want to consult Webster?

Proudly so, in my case.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/10/2015 1:12:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/10/2015 1:06:51 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/7/2015 4:29:02 AM, TBR wrote:
Washing your hands before performing surgery is liberal radicalism. Whats wrong with these liberals. Thomas Jefferson never washed his hands.

With all the black chicks he was finger blasting, I sure hope this is a lie.

That may be why he never washed.
Wylted
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11/10/2015 1:14:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/7/2015 5:36:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 11/7/2015 4:29:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
When Endark said is, by the way, false. GOP positions which were considered simply the equal and opposite half of the same coin (ideas which may in no way be equated to something like racism and are not inherently bad ideas) are now treated as horrible ideas by the media. Statistics will be cited constantly by the media which support X democratic position, completely ignoring similar research undertaken by Conservative think tanks (often of good repute) showing the opposite.
It's clear that SOMEBODY has moved further to the Left. To deny this is what is actually the "height of ignorance".

Incorrect. The country hasn't shifted to the left. The party hasn't. Reagan couldn't get nominated by today's conservatives. Barry Goldwater condemned modern conservatives. It is the GOP that has been dragged to the right by the Tea Party. That's all there is to it.

Reagan was a very smart politician, despite not really having a history in it. The party was kinda scattered and imploding like it is now. He stepped up to the plate and brought them together. He made the phrase popular "never speak ill of another Republican".

I don't see that type of leadership in the Republican Party right now, but I think if another Reagan like candidate popped up, he'd do just fine.
Wylted
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11/10/2015 1:16:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 6:25:31 PM, Fly wrote:
At 11/7/2015 5:36:58 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 11/7/2015 4:29:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
When Endark said is, by the way, false. GOP positions which were considered simply the equal and opposite half of the same coin (ideas which may in no way be equated to something like racism and are not inherently bad ideas) are now treated as horrible ideas by the media. Statistics will be cited constantly by the media which support X democratic position, completely ignoring similar research undertaken by Conservative think tanks (often of good repute) showing the opposite.
It's clear that SOMEBODY has moved further to the Left. To deny this is what is actually the "height of ignorance".

Incorrect. The country hasn't shifted to the left. The party hasn't. Reagan couldn't get nominated by today's conservatives. Barry Goldwater condemned modern conservatives. It is the GOP that has been dragged to the right by the Tea Party. That's all there is to it.

Yes, when one examines Teddy Roosevelt, Hoover, Eisenhower, Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan, H.W. Bush, Dole, etc. it is quite clear that the present GOP is in the middle of an identity crisis, and its inability to compromise is of historic proportion.

I agree that the Tea Party is largely to blame, but who is to blame for the Tea Party? I would say that W. Bush policies along with the GOP majority in congress through 2006, and the undeniable damage left in its wake spawned this angry brand-- so angry that it is almost as angry with the mainstream GOP as it is with the Democrats.

And I think it is safe to say that even the OP has virtually admitted to the hollowness of his own claims here...

Why do you guys keep claiming Goldwater?