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Guess what Conservatives? It's still an issue

NewLifeChristian
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11/8/2015 9:45:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yes! Homosexual 'marriage' is still an issue, and it will always be for as long as it exists. As Conservatives and Christians, we can't surrender issues just because the majority of people support it or don't support it. Imagine if, since the majority of people in the Old South supported slavery, we gave up the fight against slavery? That would be horrible! Bottom line: when others around you are doing the wrong thing, do the right thing. In this case, we MUST oppose same-sex 'marriage'. There are plenty of good reasons to oppose it. I've copied a list below from this website: http://tinyurl.com...

1. It Is Not Marriage

Calling something marriage does not make it marriage. Marriage has always been a covenant between a man and a woman which is by its nature ordered toward the procreation and education of children and the unity and wellbeing of the spouses.

The promoters of same-sex "marriage" propose something entirely different. They propose the union between two men or two women. This denies the self-evident biological, physiological, and psychological differences between men and women which find their complementarity in marriage. It also denies the specific primary purpose of marriage: the perpetuation of the human race and the raising of children.

Two entirely different things cannot be considered the same thing.

2. It Violates Natural Law

Marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It is a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law.

Natural law"s most elementary precept is that "good is to be done and pursued, and evil is to be avoided." By his natural reason, man can perceive what is morally good or bad for him. Thus, he can know the end or purpose of each of his acts and how it is morally wrong to transform the means that help him accomplish an act into the act"s purpose.

Any situation which institutionalizes the circumvention of the purpose of the sexual act violates natural law and the objective norm of morality.

Being rooted in human nature, natural law is universal and immutable. It applies to the entire human race, equally. It commands and forbids consistently, everywhere and always. Saint Paul taught in the Epistle to the Romans that the natural law is inscribed on the heart of every man. (Rom. 2:14-15)

3. It Always Denies a Child Either a Father or a Mother

It is in the child"s best interests that he be raised under the influence of his natural father and mother. This rule is confirmed by the evident difficulties faced by the many children who are orphans or are raised by a single parent, a relative, or a foster parent.

The unfortunate situation of these children will be the norm for all children of a same-sex "marriage." A child of a same-sex "marriage" will always be deprived of either his natural mother or father. He will necessarily be raised by one party who has no blood relationship with him. He will always be deprived of either a mother or a father role model.

Same-sex "marriage" ignores a child"s best interests.

4. It Validates and Promotes the Homosexual Lifestyle

In the name of the "family," same-sex "marriage" serves to validate not only such unions but the whole homosexual lifestyle in all its bisexual and transgender variants.

Civil laws are structuring principles of man's life in society. As such, they play a very important and sometimes decisive role in influencing patterns of thought and behavior. They externally shape the life of society, but also profoundly modify everyone"s perception and evaluation of forms of behavior.

Legal recognition of same-sex "marriage" would necessarily obscure certain basic moral values, devalue traditional marriage, and weaken public morality.

5. It Turns a Moral Wrong into a Civil Right

Homosexual activists argue that same-sex "marriage" is a civil rights issue similar to the struggle for racial equality in the 1960s.

This is false.

First of all, sexual behavior and race are essentially different realities. A man and a woman wanting to marry may be different in their characteristics: one may be black, the other white; one rich, the other poor; or one tall, the other short. None of these differences are insurmountable obstacles to marriage. The two individuals are still man and woman, and thus the requirements of nature are respected.

Same-sex "marriage" opposes nature. Two individuals of the same sex, regardless of their race, wealth, stature, erudition or fame, will never be able to marry because of an insurmountable biological impossibility.

Secondly, inherited and unchangeable racial traits cannot be compared with non-genetic and changeable behavior. There is simply no analogy between the interracial marriage of a man and a woman and the "marriage" between two individuals of the same sex.

6. It Does Not Create a Family but a Naturally Sterile Union

Traditional marriage is usually so fecund that those who would frustrate its end must do violence to nature to prevent the birth of children by using contraception. It naturally tends to create families.

On the contrary, same-sex "marriage" is intrinsically sterile. If the "spouses" want a child, they must circumvent nature by costly and artificial means or employ surrogates. The natural tendency of such a union is not to create families.
Therefore, we cannot call a same-sex union marriage and give it the benefits of true marriage.

7. It Defeats the State"s Purpose of Benefiting Marriage

One of the main reasons why the State bestows numerous benefits on marriage is that by its very nature and design, marriage provides the normal conditions for a stable, affectionate, and moral atmosphere that is beneficial to the upbringing of children"all fruit of the mutual affection of the parents. This aids in perpetuating the nation and strengthening society, an evident interest of the State.

Homosexual "marriage" does not provide such conditions. Its primary purpose, objectively speaking, is the personal gratification of two individuals whose union is sterile by nature. It is not entitled, therefore, to the protection the State extends to true marriage.

8. It Imposes Its Acceptance on All Society

By legalizing same-sex "marriage," the State becomes its official and active promoter. The State calls on public officials to officiate at the new civil ceremony, orders public schools to teach its acceptability to children, and punishes any state employee who expresses disapproval.

In the private sphere, objecting parents will see their children exposed more than ever to this new "morality," businesses offering wedding services will be forced to provide them for same-sex unions, and rental property owners will have to agree to accept same-sex couples as tenants.

In every situation where marriage affects society, the State will expect Christians and all people of good will to betray their consciences by condoning, through silence or act, an attack on the natural order and Christian morality.

9. It Is the Cutting Edge of the Sexual Revolution

In the 1960s, society was pressured to accept all kinds of immoral sexual relationships between men and women. Today we are seeing a new sexual revolution where society is being asked to accept sodomy and same-sex "marriage."

If homosexual "marriage" is universally accepted as the present step in sexual "freedom," what logical arguments can be used to stop the next steps of incest, pedophilia, bestiality, and other forms of unnatural behavior? Indeed, radical elements of certain "avant garde" subcultures are already advocating such aberrations.

The railroading of same-sex "marriage" on the American people makes increasingly clear what homosexual activist Paul Varnell wrote in the Chicago Free Press:

"The gay movement, whether we acknowledge it or not, is not a civil rights movement, not even a sexual liberation movement, but a moral revol
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
distraff
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11/8/2015 10:15:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/8/2015 9:45:00 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:

2. It Violates Natural Law

Marriage is not just any relationship between human beings. It is a relationship rooted in human nature and thus governed by natural law.

Natural law"s most elementary precept is that "good is to be done and pursued, and evil is to be avoided." By his natural reason, man can perceive what is morally good or bad for him. Thus, he can know the end or purpose of each of his acts and how it is morally wrong to transform the means that help him accomplish an act into the act"s purpose.

Any situation which institutionalizes the circumvention of the purpose of the sexual act violates natural law and the objective norm of morality.

Being rooted in human nature, natural law is universal and immutable. It applies to the entire human race, equally. It commands and forbids consistently, everywhere and always. Saint Paul taught in the Epistle to the Romans that the natural law is inscribed on the heart of every man. (Rom. 2:14-15)

How do you know there is a natural law and why does it have any authority on us? How do you determine that something violates natural law? These are basic questions that need answers.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/8/2015 10:25:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I was going to write a bunch of responses, but got bored with it. It's just way easier to say - you lost, get over it.
Fly
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11/9/2015 12:04:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."

-H.L. Mencken
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
TBR
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11/9/2015 12:44:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 12:04:46 AM, Fly wrote:
"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."

-H.L. Mencken

Nice!
YYW
Posts: 36,382
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11/9/2015 12:46:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 12:44:45 AM, TBR wrote:
At 11/9/2015 12:04:46 AM, Fly wrote:
"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."

-H.L. Mencken

Nice!
Tsar of DDO
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/9/2015 1:06:30 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Many conservatives now support same sex marriage. That is because conservatism traditionally worked throughout history. Conservatives support the status quo and reject progressive reform.

Attempts to paint both liberalism and conservatism as anything other than their classical definition just makes it confusing.
xus00HAY
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11/9/2015 2:03:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This issue has its roots back in the early 1980s. At this time it seemed that everybody who had AIDS was a gay man. There was this theory that God created AIDS to rid the world of its gay population. this created a war between the gays and the religious right.
TBR
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11/9/2015 2:51:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 2:03:37 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
This issue has its roots back in the early 1980s. At this time it seemed that everybody who had AIDS was a gay man. There was this theory that God created AIDS to rid the world of its gay population. this created a war between the gays and the religious right.

Well, one, I would say the issue was working for a couple decades before that, but we can talk 80's. Yea, when conservatives ignored AIDS dismissing it as a "gay issue", the WH giggling in national press conferences as Americans died, yea, the conservatives lost any ability to be seen as anything but hateful homophobic a$$es. The religious right, being courted hard by the GOP, baked the religious threat of hell-fire into hatting gays, and opened a huge "battle". Know what? Like so many, the conservatives were just wrong and awful.

I just have NO use for conservatives who are now complaining of "gay agenda" OR conservatives who accept gays, just as long as its not "shoved in their faces". The despicable words and actions over the last 50 years towards the LGBT community deserve the contempt of every LGBT person and any "friend" of same.

In summary. GOP - go suck a d1ck!
TBR
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11/9/2015 2:56:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 1:06:30 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
Many conservatives now support same sex marriage. That is because conservatism traditionally worked throughout history. Conservatives support the status quo and reject progressive reform.

Attempts to paint both liberalism and conservatism as anything other than their classical definition just makes it confusing.

Preposterous! The lack of support is still all in the conservative ranks
http://www.pewforum.org...
Democratic - 66%
Independent - 61%
Republicans - 32%

Yea, they like the status-quo. It takes them 50 years to get with the damn program. They still wish Elvis would shave his sideburns.
xus00HAY
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11/9/2015 3:55:57 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The thing is there was nobody from the churches getting on the news and saying "no, God would not create a virus that would do this and many church leaders seemed to think this theory might be true, including Billy Graham.
When it became apparent that many hetero IV drug abusers were getting AIDS by sharing needles, the theory was changed to God created AIDS to get rid of the gays AND the junkies.
The statistics showed that no married people got AIDS, and there was this theory that if gay couples got married and exchanged vows to never do it with anyone besides the spouse, that this could stop the spread of AIDS. Although one could not expect this to work, it would be something that at least we should try.
NewLifeChristian
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11/9/2015 9:00:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 1:06:30 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
Many conservatives now support same sex marriage.


Still, the majority of Conservatives don't support same-sex 'marriage'. Only 30% of Conservatives surveyed by PEW Research say they support same-sex 'marriage'. http://tinyurl.com...
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
TBR
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11/9/2015 9:08:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 9:00:28 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
At 11/9/2015 1:06:30 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
Many conservatives now support same sex marriage.


Still, the majority of Conservatives don't support same-sex 'marriage'. Only 30% of Conservatives surveyed by PEW Research say they support same-sex 'marriage'. http://tinyurl.com...

Thought you closed your account in a tizzy.

Yea, I posted the poll numbers above - it is 32%, not that 2 more present helps this problem. So when you look across the board, it is ~60% support for SSM. That is, well it is done. Its a done issue no mater what way you want to cut it. Legally, politically, socially. This issue is done, you lost.

Don't worry though. You can still gnash your teeth about it for as long as you like. We, however, are moving right along.
NewLifeChristian
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11/9/2015 9:09:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
How do you know there is a natural law and why does it have any authority on us? How do you determine that something violates natural law?
1) Natural law is, as defined by the dictionary, "a body of unchanging moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct." We obviously know there is natural law, there are some things that humans simply should not do. Some examples include, cannibalism and stealing, etc. There are other principles that may not be as obvious; however, they are established in the Bible. An example is same-sex 'marriage'/homosexuality.

2) How do we determine that something violates natural law? We look at the Bible. The Bible is the word of God and all of His laws are told in that book.
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
NewLifeChristian
Posts: 1,236
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11/9/2015 9:16:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
. That is, well it is done. Its a done issue no mater what way you want to cut it. Legally, politically, socially. This issue is done, you lost.

No, it's not a done issue. Kim Davis proved it wasn't. The fight for marriage will still continue.
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/9/2015 9:22:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 9:16:57 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
. That is, well it is done. Its a done issue no mater what way you want to cut it. Legally, politically, socially. This issue is done, you lost.

No, it's not a done issue. Kim Davis proved it wasn't. The fight for marriage will still continue.

Kim Davis lost. They are providing legal marriage licenses today! Like I said, you can keep at it, but you have lost.
NewLifeChristian
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11/9/2015 9:30:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 9:22:48 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/9/2015 9:16:57 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
. That is, well it is done. Its a done issue no mater what way you want to cut it. Legally, politically, socially. This issue is done, you lost.

No, it's not a done issue. Kim Davis proved it wasn't. The fight for marriage will still continue.

Kim Davis lost. They are providing legal marriage licenses today! Like I said, you can keep at it, but you have lost.
Did she really lose? http://tinyurl.com...
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/9/2015 9:36:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 9:30:23 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
At 11/9/2015 9:22:48 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/9/2015 9:16:57 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
. That is, well it is done. Its a done issue no mater what way you want to cut it. Legally, politically, socially. This issue is done, you lost.

No, it's not a done issue. Kim Davis proved it wasn't. The fight for marriage will still continue.

Kim Davis lost. They are providing legal marriage licenses today! Like I said, you can keep at it, but you have lost.
Did she really lose? http://tinyurl.com...

Nice headline. Yea, she lost. They are issuing marriage licenses. That is a lose. What do you think, that the new governor will call her and say "OK now you can stop all them gays from getting married"?
NewLifeChristian
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11/9/2015 9:39:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 9:36:04 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/9/2015 9:30:23 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
At 11/9/2015 9:22:48 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/9/2015 9:16:57 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
. That is, well it is done. Its a done issue no mater what way you want to cut it. Legally, politically, socially. This issue is done, you lost.

No, it's not a done issue. Kim Davis proved it wasn't. The fight for marriage will still continue.

Kim Davis lost. They are providing legal marriage licenses today! Like I said, you can keep at it, but you have lost.
Did she really lose? http://tinyurl.com...

Nice headline. Yea, she lost. They are issuing marriage licenses. That is a lose. What do you think, that the new governor will call her and say "OK now you can stop all them gays from getting married"?
Governor-Elect Matt Bevin sounds like he really supports Davis's cause. Maybe he will. You never know.
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
TBR
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11/9/2015 9:43:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Governor-Elect Matt Bevin sounds like he really supports Davis's cause. Maybe he will. You never know.

Support "the cause" or not, the Governor elect can not stop SSM in his state.
NewLifeChristian
Posts: 1,236
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11/9/2015 9:44:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 9:43:34 PM, TBR wrote:
Governor-Elect Matt Bevin sounds like he really supports Davis's cause. Maybe he will. You never know.

Support "the cause" or not, the Governor elect can not stop SSM in his state.
Actually he can. It's his state, there should be state rights. The court ruling was 100% unconstitutional.
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
TBR
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11/9/2015 9:48:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Support "the cause" or not, the Governor elect can not stop SSM in his state.
Actually he can. It's his state, there should be state rights. The court ruling was 100% unconstitutional.

Well, it was not unconstitutional, and even if it WERE it is constitutional now. Further, federal law and SCOTUS precedent overrides state law and court. Yea, its done, yea, he can not stop them.
NewLifeChristian
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11/9/2015 9:53:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 9:48:55 PM, TBR wrote:
Support "the cause" or not, the Governor elect can not stop SSM in his state.
Actually he can. It's his state, there should be state rights. The court ruling was 100% unconstitutional.

Well, it was not unconstitutional, and even if it WERE it is constitutional now. Further, federal law and SCOTUS precedent overrides state law and court. Yea, its done, yea, he can not stop them.
There is one more option, there is a lot of talk about Texas wanting to secede. There are multiple movements taking place. See: http://www.thetnm.org... http://www.freedomtexas.org... & http://www.texassecede.com... All I can say, is if they do secede I will be moving there.
Pro-Life Quotes:

"I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born."
- Ronald Reagan

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government."
- Thomas Jefferson

"A person is a person no matter how small."
- Dr. Seuss
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/9/2015 9:56:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There is one more option, there is a lot of talk about Texas wanting to secede. There are multiple movements taking place. See: http://www.thetnm.org... http://www.freedomtexas.org... & http://www.texassecede.com... All I can say, is if they do secede I will be moving there.

I have been lambasted for saying this, but please leave. I would love the south to just take the he11 off. Problem is, support even within these states is very very low.
Blazzered
Posts: 9
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11/9/2015 9:57:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 9:09:44 PM, NewLifeChristian wrote:
How do you know there is a natural law and why does it have any authority on us? How do you determine that something violates natural law?
1) Natural law is, as defined by the dictionary, "a body of unchanging moral principles regarded as a basis for all human conduct." We obviously know there is natural law, there are some things that humans simply should not do. Some examples include, cannibalism and stealing, etc. There are other principles that may not be as obvious; however, they are established in the Bible. An example is same-sex 'marriage'/homosexuality.

2) How do we determine that something violates natural law? We look at the Bible. The Bible is the word of God and all of His laws are told in that book.

Prove the Bible is true with tangible and perceptible evidence, then we will accept that claim.
Gay marriage doesn't hurt anyone. Just let them be happy and move on with your lives and stop trying to dictate how people should live their lives all because of some book, that has no tangible or perceptible evidence, says its wrong. Your belief is your belief. Stop forcing its ways on those around you.
Gay marriage is legal. The fight is over.
Just like when slavery ended, the KKK formed because people wanted to say the fight "wasn't over". What, are we gonna have a new group like the KKK that just discriminates towards gays now?
Just let people be happy, let them have their rights, and let them live their lives peacefully. Quit discriminating and quit trying to restrict gays their rights.
Women won their rights, blacks won their rights, and now gays won their rights. Accept it and move on.
ButterCatX
Posts: 2,228
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11/9/2015 10:06:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I would like it noted by whomever is noting stuff. I am a conservative and, guess what? I support Gay marriage. I always have, I always will. Nobody gives a crap what you say otherwise. I think back to when I heard about the law that legalized gay marriage, I was a The Summit Bechtel reserve surrounded by a ton of conservative guys(BSA is a pretty conservative organization) and I wasn't paying attention to news (I don't care about modern events) and a guy I was with was cheking his phone constantly, he finally exclaimed "It's in the constitution, gay marriage is legal". Everyone around me was happy to hear the news and we were glad it happened. My point is many conservatives support it.
I bet fanfics are already being posted on random blogs about us.-Vaarka

Butters preformed his duty to the town and died with honor, he helped us kill scum, so we know have to go and make sure his death wasn't in vain and win this game for him.-lannan13

All hail the great and mighty Butters, who died for our inactive cause.-Vaarka

fuckith offith, lol.-Ore(talking to me)

And guess what happened to FT? He got raped to death.-Xlav

You are so obviously town I love you man.-VOT
xus00HAY
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11/9/2015 10:51:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Gay marriage doesn't hurt anyone. Just let them be happy and move on with your lives >
Dual species marriage doesn't hurt anyone. Just let them be happy and move on with your lives
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,238
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11/9/2015 10:52:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/9/2015 3:55:57 AM, xus00HAY wrote:
The thing is there was nobody from the churches getting on the news and saying "no, God would not create a virus that would do this and many church leaders seemed to think this theory might be true, including Billy Graham.
When it became apparent that many hetero IV drug abusers were getting AIDS by sharing needles, the theory was changed to God created AIDS to get rid of the gays AND the junkies.
The statistics showed that no married people got AIDS, and there was this theory that if gay couples got married and exchanged vows to never do it with anyone besides the spouse, that this could stop the spread of AIDS. Although one could not expect this to work, it would be something that at least we should try.

What does God need with a virus? Why would an omnipotent entity use something that clearly His creation will immediately attempt to cure or correct? He is an omnipotent deity, a virus is beneath Him, if He wanted gays to be gone, He could

a) cease its existence by virtue of not creating it
b) remove all homosexuals from existence

You will notice neither of those have happened. Ever stopped to wonder why?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
xus00HAY
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11/9/2015 10:56:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Women won their rights, blacks won their rights, and now gays won their rights. Accept it and move on."

The polygamists did not win their rights, why should a man not be allowed to marry more than 1 woman?