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A perspective on the leftist agenda

ben2974
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11/13/2015 11:39:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
For the past few years tensions between the black and white communities have been on the rise. More incidents of race related violence is being reported, racial profiling and police brutality is making headlines on a weekly basis, and finally, young millennials in college and beyond are increasingly attempting to censure conversations and limit personal responsibility. Glancing over these current events and applying a broad historical context gives the typical impression that the current state of affairs for minorities - blacks in particular - and lower class citizenry is duly unjust and necessarily requires state intervention to make amends. I posit that these amends, that these accommodations, are a result of a liberal agenda intending to control minorities and the lower classes.

The main premise held here is that the state, since the African-american civil rights movement of the 60s, has insisted on a welfare system intended to control these groups of people economically and socially. The U.S government later began legislating policies like affirmative action (e.g., the 8A program) in order to "assist" those who were underprivileged on the basis that freeing blacks from discrimination and allowing them equal rights and privileges was not enough to give them the opportunities to succeed in life. In other words, the progressive/democrat believed that blacks, by themselves, would not be able to succeed without state intervention. Despite these efforts, the continued racial tensions that persisted throughout the following decades and the inability of the minorities to find success in their demographic has given way to a vicious cycle of contempt for the system. Decades of stagnant growth in the supposed disadvantaged communities led to a furthering of the belief that the system works against them, finding less incentive to try and make a difference for themselves. The slippery slope continues . . .

With time, this perception of reality has produced cultures that identify with the hardships felt by these communities, specifically with the black community. Rapping became a way to vent these frustrations, for example. But the general impulse is that black communities are "in it together." They've come to expect a life that demands special attention for their cause. They've come to demand special privilege. It has gone so far that the black community shuns or disregards those in their community who are successful (example like Ben Carson), as if those who've distinguished themselves from the community are traitors, or sell-outs . This all fits in with the supposed "race industry:" those like Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson promote their cause for gains never actually felt by the communities they say they serve. The communities are led to believe that the status quo is not sufficient to address their needs, and therefore a liberal agenda is necessary to lift them up, as conservatives are those who abide by the status quo.

These issues have been simmering for decades, and not just with blacks but with disadvantaged minorities and a stagnating middle class. It is only now, in a time of social media buzz, that people sympathetic to the cause can vent their frustrations on a national level. Because social media has made access to information and ideas extremely prevalent and easy, we are hearing about these deep-seated injustices as if they were issues as destructive as Jim Crow. If you think about the latest event - the war on political correctness - I invite you to look at it through the lens posited here. What is actually going on is that blacks and liberal millennials are coming full circle. They are unconsciously asking the state (in the long term) to limit their freedoms, specifically by denouncing free speech and requesting that campuses set more restrictive laws, limiting freedom of expression as well. Can you imagine the civil rights activists of the 60s asking to limit their free speech and freedom to expression? People today are so convinced (however delirious) of their oppression that they opt for the state to suppress some of the very things many civilizations died for.

In 1964 then-president Lyndon B. Johnson gave a commencement speech at Howard University, a historically black school. An excerpt follows:
"But freedom is not enough. You do not wipe away the scars of centuries by saying now: 'you are free to go where you want and do as you desire, and choose the leaders you please.' You do not take a person who for years has been hobbled by change and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of race and say: 'you are free to compete with all the others,' and still justly believe that you have been completely fair. Thus it is not enough just to open the gates of opportunity." This has to be the gravest insult addressed to the black community.. Yet, the evil intention of his comments slipped away unnoticed. What LBJ did here 50 years ago is sow the seed of eternal resentment toward the status quo. He helped seal the fates of generations of African Americans and those demographics who sympathize with them by ensuring their dependence on the state, leaving them in a vicious cycle of poverty and hopelessness. But do not fret, vote for the progressives, they'll make it even harder for you. This is the leftist agenda.

___
Note to everyone who reads this: I don't particularly adhere to the arguments I make here. I thought simply that it would be fun to read the issue from a different perspective that is in many ways extremely cynical.
stealspell
Posts: 980
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11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/25/2015 7:39:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

I don't think any sensible person, regardless of ideology would deny that. I doubt Ben would deny it as well.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.
stealspell
Posts: 980
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11/25/2015 8:09:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.

I don't think anybody would claim there is only one factor at play in any sort of situation. The problem with saying there are many factors at play is to almost sweep the issue under the rug, as if to say, tough luck, it's just life. I'm not saying you're saying that, but I fear many make such a connection. Race is definitely the biggest contributing factor in some places like Ferguson, MO. Clearly some departments have issues and they need to retrain their officers. And officers must also have a more active role in the community by getting to know the citizens they serve and protect.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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11/25/2015 9:12:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 8:09:10 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.

I don't think anybody would claim there is only one factor at play in any sort of situation. The problem with saying there are many factors at play is to almost sweep the issue under the rug, as if to say, tough luck, it's just life. I'm not saying you're saying that, but I fear many make such a connection. Race is definitely the biggest contributing factor in some places like Ferguson, MO. Clearly some departments have issues and they need to retrain their officers. And officers must also have a more active role in the community by getting to know the citizens they serve and protect.

Yeah, I get that. But I also take issue with the reverse, which is those that inflate the involvement of racism tend to fail to try and look at the bigger picture, or at least the whole picture. What i'm really trying to say is that I feel like the black community uses perceived systematic racism as an excuse to continue aggravating the situation by confronting the problem aggressively. This is what I believe to be the case for the killing of Michael Brown in the Ferguson affair. I felt/feel almost no sympathy for someone who was literally in the act of committing a crime and then shortly after decides to confront the police about a triviality that could have been 100% avoided if he had a little sense in him.
stealspell
Posts: 980
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11/26/2015 12:14:00 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 9:12:17 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 8:09:10 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.

I don't think anybody would claim there is only one factor at play in any sort of situation. The problem with saying there are many factors at play is to almost sweep the issue under the rug, as if to say, tough luck, it's just life. I'm not saying you're saying that, but I fear many make such a connection. Race is definitely the biggest contributing factor in some places like Ferguson, MO. Clearly some departments have issues and they need to retrain their officers. And officers must also have a more active role in the community by getting to know the citizens they serve and protect.


Yeah, I get that. But I also take issue with the reverse, which is those that inflate the involvement of racism tend to fail to try and look at the bigger picture, or at least the whole picture. What i'm really trying to say is that I feel like the black community uses perceived systematic racism as an excuse to continue aggravating the situation by confronting the problem aggressively. This is what I believe to be the case for the killing of Michael Brown in the Ferguson affair. I felt/feel almost no sympathy for someone who was literally in the act of committing a crime and then shortly after decides to confront the police about a triviality that could have been 100% avoided if he had a little sense in him.

I don't think you can accuse the black community of having a "perceived systematic racism" when blacks are disproportionately incarcerated, disproportionately pulled over, disproportionately searched, unfairly compensated, etc. The real problem lies in when one is not conscious of being racist. Racism can be as simple as treating someone differently then you would treat someone of the same race as yours but not be aware of it or do it deliberately. For example, people act differently toward strangers, differently towards friends, and differently towards family, and not always be doing it deliberately or be aware of it. It's the same with people who are different then you. It's more safe to assume that you will behave with prejudice towards someone at first until you actually get to know them. It's a natural human instinct to behave with prejudice. The key is to not let it cloud your judgment.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/26/2015 12:28:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:14:00 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 9:12:17 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 8:09:10 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.

I don't think anybody would claim there is only one factor at play in any sort of situation. The problem with saying there are many factors at play is to almost sweep the issue under the rug, as if to say, tough luck, it's just life. I'm not saying you're saying that, but I fear many make such a connection. Race is definitely the biggest contributing factor in some places like Ferguson, MO. Clearly some departments have issues and they need to retrain their officers. And officers must also have a more active role in the community by getting to know the citizens they serve and protect.


Yeah, I get that. But I also take issue with the reverse, which is those that inflate the involvement of racism tend to fail to try and look at the bigger picture, or at least the whole picture. What i'm really trying to say is that I feel like the black community uses perceived systematic racism as an excuse to continue aggravating the situation by confronting the problem aggressively. This is what I believe to be the case for the killing of Michael Brown in the Ferguson affair. I felt/feel almost no sympathy for someone who was literally in the act of committing a crime and then shortly after decides to confront the police about a triviality that could have been 100% avoided if he had a little sense in him.

I don't think you can accuse the black community of having a "perceived systematic racism" when blacks are disproportionately incarcerated,

Looking at disproportionate numbers is the wrong way to gauge whether something is racist. If your a cop and see more black people committing crimes, and then arrest more black people, because they commit more crimes are you really racist?

Should you ignore a lot of black people committing crimes, so that the numbers work themselves out and all of a sudden black arrests are proportionate?

Is it racist to arrest all white people who deal drugs on a corner, but only a small amount of the black people you see doing the same thing, so the numbers balance themselves out?

disproportionately pulled over, disproportionately searched, unfairly compensated, etc. The real problem lies in when one is not conscious of being racist. Racism can be as simple as treating someone differently then you would treat someone of the same race as yours but not be aware of it or do it deliberately. For example, people act differently toward strangers, differently towards friends, and differently towards family, and not always be doing it deliberately or be aware of it. It's the same with people who are different then you. It's more safe to assume that you will behave with prejudice towards someone at first until you actually get to know them. It's a natural human instinct to behave with prejudice. The key is to not let it cloud your judgment.
stealspell
Posts: 980
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11/26/2015 12:34:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:28:48 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:14:00 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 9:12:17 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 8:09:10 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.

I don't think anybody would claim there is only one factor at play in any sort of situation. The problem with saying there are many factors at play is to almost sweep the issue under the rug, as if to say, tough luck, it's just life. I'm not saying you're saying that, but I fear many make such a connection. Race is definitely the biggest contributing factor in some places like Ferguson, MO. Clearly some departments have issues and they need to retrain their officers. And officers must also have a more active role in the community by getting to know the citizens they serve and protect.


Yeah, I get that. But I also take issue with the reverse, which is those that inflate the involvement of racism tend to fail to try and look at the bigger picture, or at least the whole picture. What i'm really trying to say is that I feel like the black community uses perceived systematic racism as an excuse to continue aggravating the situation by confronting the problem aggressively. This is what I believe to be the case for the killing of Michael Brown in the Ferguson affair. I felt/feel almost no sympathy for someone who was literally in the act of committing a crime and then shortly after decides to confront the police about a triviality that could have been 100% avoided if he had a little sense in him.

I don't think you can accuse the black community of having a "perceived systematic racism" when blacks are disproportionately incarcerated,

Looking at disproportionate numbers is the wrong way to gauge whether something is racist. If your a cop and see more black people committing crimes, and then arrest more black people, because they commit more crimes are you really racist?

If you think black people are inherently more prone to commit crimes, that's racist and also not true.

Should you ignore a lot of black people committing crimes, so that the numbers work themselves out and all of a sudden black arrests are proportionate?

Is it racist to arrest all white people who deal drugs on a corner, but only a small amount of the black people you see doing the same thing, so the numbers balance themselves out?

I have no idea why you're bringing up any of this. How does this add to the discussion?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/26/2015 12:48:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you think black people are inherently more prone to commit crimes, that's racist and also not true.

How is that racist? Do you think a group of people who are more prone to come from poverty, single family households and bad neighborhoods really have the exact same likelihood to grow up as productive members of society, as the group of people more likely to grow up with two parents, in a good neighborhood and easily able to put enough food on their table?

Are you honestly foolish enough to believe a disadvantaged group in society is less likely to have a bunch of criminals come out of it, than an advantaged group? I mean forget stats that actually prove my point, the fact that the disadvantaged group will be more prone to crime, is just common sense.

Hell, I gauruntee if I didn't have as tough of a life growing up, I personally wouldn't have spent so much time behind bars.

Cops arresting a lot of blacks is not evidence of cops being racist. At best it's evidence for how society has failed the black community.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/26/2015 12:56:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 9:12:17 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 8:09:10 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.

I don't think anybody would claim there is only one factor at play in any sort of situation. The problem with saying there are many factors at play is to almost sweep the issue under the rug, as if to say, tough luck, it's just life. I'm not saying you're saying that, but I fear many make such a connection. Race is definitely the biggest contributing factor in some places like Ferguson, MO. Clearly some departments have issues and they need to retrain their officers. And officers must also have a more active role in the community by getting to know the citizens they serve and protect.


Yeah, I get that. But I also take issue with the reverse, which is those that inflate the involvement of racism tend to fail to try and look at the bigger picture, or at least the whole picture. What i'm really trying to say is that I feel like the black community uses perceived systematic racism as an excuse to continue aggravating the situation by confronting the problem aggressively.

I feel like the white community truly doesn't get it when it comes to systematic racism and as such members of that community will say things such as this.

Had we not been "aggressive" we'd still be getting lynched with regularity and stuck in legal "seperate but unequal". We've been "aggressively" talking about police brutality in our communities for DECADES (and people have been swallowing police lies about their conduct in our communities) but it's only recently entering the public consciousness because of social media and cameras. That people are shocked by things like this only shows they haven't been listening or dismissing our testimony.

This is what I believe to be the case for the killing of Michael Brown in the Ferguson affair. I felt/feel almost no sympathy for someone who was literally in the act of committing a crime and then shortly after decides to confront the police about a triviality that could have been 100% avoided if he had a little sense in him.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/26/2015 1:26:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/13/2015 11:39:59 PM, ben2974 wrote:
The main premise held here is that the state, since the African-american civil rights movement of the 60s, has insisted on a welfare system intended to control these groups of people economically and socially. The U.S government later began legislating policies like affirmative action (e.g., the 8A program) in order to "assist" those who were underprivileged on the basis that freeing blacks from discrimination and allowing them equal rights and privileges was not enough to give them the opportunities to succeed in life.

Don't accept your premise, so why accept your conclusion? Redlining and minimum mandatory sentences and the like happened well after civil rights movement legislation....r

With time, this perception of reality has produced cultures that identify with the hardships felt by these communities, specifically with the black community. Rapping became a way to vent these frustrations, for example. But the general impulse is that black communities are "in it together." They've come to expect a life that demands special attention for their cause. They've come to demand special privilege. It has gone so far that the black community shuns or disregards those in their community who are successful (example like Ben Carson), as if those who've distinguished themselves from the community are traitors, or sell-outs .

Lol? Ben Carson was loved in the black community (and lots of black doctors looked up to him as inspiration) until he started saying stupid sh!t on race. I actually knew who he was 10 years ago, and he was held up as an of black excellence.

Back when he was sane he said things like:

""Black Americans, on the other hand, find it almost impossible to think about "fairness" or "justice" in anything but racial terms " because of our nation"s historical record of unfairness and injustice to our race....As I said in the previous chapter, no matter how often we are told we need to "get over" the past, white people need to understand these things are not easy for us to forget""

""White people think of racial violence in a modern context " such as the black riots that erupted in the wake of the Rodney King verdict," he wrote. "They have no grasp on the history of racial violence in this country " as illustrated by their total unawareness of what Newsweek (Dec. 8, 1997) admitted were "two [facts] that every American should know. Between 1885 and 1900, at least 2,500 blacks were lynched or murdered as the KKK consolidated its hold on the post-Reconstruction South. In 1741, 14 slaves were burned at the stake and 18 others were hanged because of fears of a slave revolt" in New York City."" "

""Too many other incidents of injustice are not merely ancient history, but personal history, even current events, for the majority of black people. I remember in Boston when I was a child, my older cousins, sons of the aunt and uncle who took our family in, were arrested and thrown into jail for some minor infraction of the law. When one of my cousins protested that abuse, he was beaten so severely by the police that he almost died. I vividly remember seeing the results of that beating. A few years ago, when my own mother questioned a policeman who stopped her for a routine traffic violation in a Detroit suburb, the officer angrily told her she met the description of a woman wanted for abducting an elderly couple. He promptly arrested her, had her car impounded, and threw her into jail. I had to call a lawyer friend of mine, a fellow Yale alumnus, who used his contacts as a senior partner in a major Detroit law firm to get her released and to see that the bogus charges were dismissed."

""Most black people can cite similar personal experiences of injustice. President Clinton"s commission on race specifically cited the injustice of "racial profiling," which many police use to identify potential criminals," wrote Carson. "It is employed most often in traffic stops, for a crime sometimes derisively referred to in the African-American community as "driving while black.""

"Statistics support what many blacks have never doubted, that our justice system metes out different treatment to blacks and whites," Carson continued. "The disproportionate percentage of black murderers versus white murderers who receive the death penalty is just one example. The 1998 race commission report cited another when it urged the president to reduce the disparity in sentences for crimes involving powdered cocaine and its concentrated form, crack. The board said longer sentences for crimes involving crack, largely involving poor, black, or Hispanic offenders are "morally and intellectually indefensible."""

http://www.buzzfeed.com...


These issues have been simmering for decades, and not just with blacks but with disadvantaged minorities and a stagnating middle class. It is only now, in a time of social media buzz, that people sympathetic to the cause can vent their frustrations on a national level. Because social media has made access to information and ideas extremely prevalent and easy, we are hearing about these deep-seated injustices as if they were issues as destructive as Jim Crow.

Saying deep-seated injustices are as deep or as bad as the Jim Crow era isn't saying much. That doesn't mean they aren't deep or bad - just not *as* deep as back then.

This has to be the gravest insult addressed to the black community.. Yet, the evil intention of his comments slipped away unnoticed.

MLK also said things like this like what was stated in your LBJ quote....
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Wylted
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11/26/2015 2:07:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 1:26:18 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/13/2015 11:39:59 PM, ben2974 wrote:
The main premise held here is that the state, since the African-american civil rights movement of the 60s, has insisted on a welfare system intended to control these groups of people economically and socially. The U.S government later began legislating policies like affirmative action (e.g., the 8A program) in order to "assist" those who were underprivileged on the basis that freeing blacks from discrimination and allowing them equal rights and privileges was not enough to give them the opportunities to succeed in life.

Don't accept your premise, so why accept your conclusion? Redlining and minimum mandatory sentences and the like happened well after civil rights movement legislation....r

With time, this perception of reality has produced cultures that identify with the hardships felt by these communities, specifically with the black community. Rapping became a way to vent these frustrations, for example. But the general impulse is that black communities are "in it together." They've come to expect a life that demands special attention for their cause. They've come to demand special privilege. It has gone so far that the black community shuns or disregards those in their community who are successful (example like Ben Carson), as if those who've distinguished themselves from the community are traitors, or sell-outs .


Lol? Ben Carson was loved in the black community (and lots of black doctors looked up to him as inspiration) until he started saying stupid sh!t on race. I actually knew who he was 10 years ago, and he was held up as an of black excellence.

Back when he was sane he said things like:

""Black Americans, on the other hand, find it almost impossible to think about "fairness" or "justice" in anything but racial terms " because of our nation"s historical record of unfairness and injustice to our race....As I said in the previous chapter, no matter how often we are told we need to "get over" the past, white people need to understand these things are not easy for us to forget""

""White people think of racial violence in a modern context " such as the black riots that erupted in the wake of the Rodney King verdict," he wrote. "They have no grasp on the history of racial violence in this country " as illustrated by their total unawareness of what Newsweek (Dec. 8, 1997) admitted were "two [facts] that every American should know. Between 1885 and 1900, at least 2,500 blacks were lynched or murdered as the KKK consolidated its hold on the post-Reconstruction South. In 1741, 14 slaves were burned at the stake and 18 others were hanged because of fears of a slave revolt" in New York City."" "

""Too many other incidents of injustice are not merely ancient history, but personal history, even current events, for the majority of black people. I remember in Boston when I was a child, my older cousins, sons of the aunt and uncle who took our family in, were arrested and thrown into jail for some minor infraction of the law. When one of my cousins protested that abuse, he was beaten so severely by the police that he almost died. I vividly remember seeing the results of that beating. A few years ago, when my own mother questioned a policeman who stopped her for a routine traffic violation in a Detroit suburb, the officer angrily told her she met the description of a woman wanted for abducting an elderly couple. He promptly arrested her, had her car impounded, and threw her into jail. I had to call a lawyer friend of mine, a fellow Yale alumnus, who used his contacts as a senior partner in a major Detroit law firm to get her released and to see that the bogus charges were dismissed."

""Most black people can cite similar personal experiences of injustice. President Clinton"s commission on race specifically cited the injustice of "racial profiling," which many police use to identify potential criminals," wrote Carson. "It is employed most often in traffic stops, for a crime sometimes derisively referred to in the African-American community as "driving while black.""

"Statistics support what many blacks have never doubted, that our justice system metes out different treatment to blacks and whites," Carson continued. "The disproportionate percentage of black murderers versus white murderers who receive the death penalty is just one example. The 1998 race commission report cited another when it urged the president to reduce the disparity in sentences for crimes involving powdered cocaine and its concentrated form, crack. The board said longer sentences for crimes involving crack, largely involving poor, black, or Hispanic offenders are "morally and intellectually indefensible."""

http://www.buzzfeed.com...


These issues have been simmering for decades, and not just with blacks but with disadvantaged minorities and a stagnating middle class. It is only now, in a time of social media buzz, that people sympathetic to the cause can vent their frustrations on a national level. Because social media has made access to information and ideas extremely prevalent and easy, we are hearing about these deep-seated injustices as if they were issues as destructive as Jim Crow.

Saying deep-seated injustices are as deep or as bad as the Jim Crow era isn't saying much. That doesn't mean they aren't deep or bad - just not *as* deep as back then.

This has to be the gravest insult addressed to the black community.. Yet, the evil intention of his comments slipped away unnoticed.

MLK also said things like this like what was stated in your LBJ quote....

Can you show any evidence that Ben Carson has changed his mind on those things?
ben2974
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11/26/2015 2:46:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:56:29 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/25/2015 9:12:17 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 8:09:10 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.

I don't think anybody would claim there is only one factor at play in any sort of situation. The problem with saying there are many factors at play is to almost sweep the issue under the rug, as if to say, tough luck, it's just life. I'm not saying you're saying that, but I fear many make such a connection. Race is definitely the biggest contributing factor in some places like Ferguson, MO. Clearly some departments have issues and they need to retrain their officers. And officers must also have a more active role in the community by getting to know the citizens they serve and protect.


Yeah, I get that. But I also take issue with the reverse, which is those that inflate the involvement of racism tend to fail to try and look at the bigger picture, or at least the whole picture. What i'm really trying to say is that I feel like the black community uses perceived systematic racism as an excuse to continue aggravating the situation by confronting the problem aggressively.

I feel like the white community truly doesn't get it when it comes to systematic racism and as such members of that community will say things such as this.

Had we not been "aggressive" we'd still be getting lynched with regularity and stuck in legal "seperate but unequal". We've been "aggressively" talking about police brutality in our communities for DECADES (and people have been swallowing police lies about their conduct in our communities) but it's only recently entering the public consciousness because of social media and cameras. That people are shocked by things like this only shows they haven't been listening or dismissing our testimony.

This is what I believe to be the case for the killing of Michael Brown in the Ferguson affair. I felt/feel almost no sympathy for someone who was literally in the act of committing a crime and then shortly after decides to confront the police about a triviality that could have been 100% avoided if he had a little sense in him.

Well the communities don't convince me when they "pray for" and "support" people like Michael Brown. In my honest opinion, things like that hurt their cause/case. It's just not convincing. The Ferguson response and those like it show just how narrow the scope of one's judgement can be. And this is what the OP was hinting at: you can't wallow in self-pity and expect others to make you feel better all on their own, without helping yourself out first. It's definitely a balancing act, because there are outside forces that affect us but working on ourselves is just as important.

Listen to this guy talk about the ideas found in this thread: https://www.youtube.com...
ben2974
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11/26/2015 3:01:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:14:00 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 9:12:17 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 8:09:10 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.

I don't think anybody would claim there is only one factor at play in any sort of situation. The problem with saying there are many factors at play is to almost sweep the issue under the rug, as if to say, tough luck, it's just life. I'm not saying you're saying that, but I fear many make such a connection. Race is definitely the biggest contributing factor in some places like Ferguson, MO. Clearly some departments have issues and they need to retrain their officers. And officers must also have a more active role in the community by getting to know the citizens they serve and protect.


Yeah, I get that. But I also take issue with the reverse, which is those that inflate the involvement of racism tend to fail to try and look at the bigger picture, or at least the whole picture. What i'm really trying to say is that I feel like the black community uses perceived systematic racism as an excuse to continue aggravating the situation by confronting the problem aggressively. This is what I believe to be the case for the killing of Michael Brown in the Ferguson affair. I felt/feel almost no sympathy for someone who was literally in the act of committing a crime and then shortly after decides to confront the police about a triviality that could have been 100% avoided if he had a little sense in him.

I don't think you can accuse the black community of having a "perceived systematic racism" when blacks are disproportionately incarcerated, disproportionately pulled over, disproportionately searched, unfairly compensated, etc. The real problem lies in when one is not conscious of being racist. Racism can be as simple as treating someone differently then you would treat someone of the same race as yours but not be aware of it or do it deliberately. For example, people act differently toward strangers, differently towards friends, and differently towards family, and not always be doing it deliberately or be aware of it. It's the same with people who are different then you. It's more safe to assume that you will behave with prejudice towards someone at first until you actually get to know them. It's a natural human instinct to behave with prejudice. The key is to not let it cloud your judgment.

Prejudice isn't the same thing as racism. Also, I'm just going to refer to what Wylted said, in that because we observe more arrests/convictions for a certain demographic does not indicate a causal relationship with racism. Again, though, I can say flatly that racism does factor into the incarcerations for blacks. It's just not right to single it out and excuse behavior for it: it doesn't give you a free ticket to insult or provoke cops.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/26/2015 3:02:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 2:46:36 AM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:56:29 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/25/2015 9:12:17 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 8:09:10 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.

I don't think anybody would claim there is only one factor at play in any sort of situation. The problem with saying there are many factors at play is to almost sweep the issue under the rug, as if to say, tough luck, it's just life. I'm not saying you're saying that, but I fear many make such a connection. Race is definitely the biggest contributing factor in some places like Ferguson, MO. Clearly some departments have issues and they need to retrain their officers. And officers must also have a more active role in the community by getting to know the citizens they serve and protect.


Yeah, I get that. But I also take issue with the reverse, which is those that inflate the involvement of racism tend to fail to try and look at the bigger picture, or at least the whole picture. What i'm really trying to say is that I feel like the black community uses perceived systematic racism as an excuse to continue aggravating the situation by confronting the problem aggressively.

I feel like the white community truly doesn't get it when it comes to systematic racism and as such members of that community will say things such as this.

Had we not been "aggressive" we'd still be getting lynched with regularity and stuck in legal "seperate but unequal". We've been "aggressively" talking about police brutality in our communities for DECADES (and people have been swallowing police lies about their conduct in our communities) but it's only recently entering the public consciousness because of social media and cameras. That people are shocked by things like this only shows they haven't been listening or dismissing our testimony.

This is what I believe to be the case for the killing of Michael Brown in the Ferguson affair. I felt/feel almost no sympathy for someone who was literally in the act of committing a crime and then shortly after decides to confront the police about a triviality that could have been 100% avoided if he had a little sense in him.

Well the communities don't convince me when they "pray for" and "support" people like Michael Brown. In my honest opinion, things like that hurt their cause/case. It's just not convincing. The Ferguson response and those like it show just how narrow the scope of one's judgement can be. And this is what the OP was hinting at: you can't wallow in self-pity and expect others to make you feel better all on their own, without helping yourself out first. It's definitely a balancing act, because there are outside forces that affect us but working on ourselves is just as important.

Listen to this guy talk about the ideas found in this thread: https://www.youtube.com...

If you honestly think the "Ferguson response" was merely about Michael Brown then that just speaks to what I was saying in the first place: you don't get systemic racism.

THIS is what the "Ferguson response" was about:

http://www.redstate.com...

It's not "wallowing in self pity" to point these things out.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/26/2015 3:05:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 2:07:09 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/26/2015 1:26:18 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/13/2015 11:39:59 PM, ben2974 wrote:
The main premise held here is that the state, since the African-american civil rights movement of the 60s, has insisted on a welfare system intended to control these groups of people economically and socially. The U.S government later began legislating policies like affirmative action (e.g., the 8A program) in order to "assist" those who were underprivileged on the basis that freeing blacks from discrimination and allowing them equal rights and privileges was not enough to give them the opportunities to succeed in life.

Don't accept your premise, so why accept your conclusion? Redlining and minimum mandatory sentences and the like happened well after civil rights movement legislation....r

With time, this perception of reality has produced cultures that identify with the hardships felt by these communities, specifically with the black community. Rapping became a way to vent these frustrations, for example. But the general impulse is that black communities are "in it together." They've come to expect a life that demands special attention for their cause. They've come to demand special privilege. It has gone so far that the black community shuns or disregards those in their community who are successful (example like Ben Carson), as if those who've distinguished themselves from the community are traitors, or sell-outs .


Lol? Ben Carson was loved in the black community (and lots of black doctors looked up to him as inspiration) until he started saying stupid sh!t on race. I actually knew who he was 10 years ago, and he was held up as an of black excellence.

Back when he was sane he said things like:

""Black Americans, on the other hand, find it almost impossible to think about "fairness" or "justice" in anything but racial terms " because of our nation"s historical record of unfairness and injustice to our race....As I said in the previous chapter, no matter how often we are told we need to "get over" the past, white people need to understand these things are not easy for us to forget""

""White people think of racial violence in a modern context " such as the black riots that erupted in the wake of the Rodney King verdict," he wrote. "They have no grasp on the history of racial violence in this country " as illustrated by their total unawareness of what Newsweek (Dec. 8, 1997) admitted were "two [facts] that every American should know. Between 1885 and 1900, at least 2,500 blacks were lynched or murdered as the KKK consolidated its hold on the post-Reconstruction South. In 1741, 14 slaves were burned at the stake and 18 others were hanged because of fears of a slave revolt" in New York City."" "

""Too many other incidents of injustice are not merely ancient history, but personal history, even current events, for the majority of black people. I remember in Boston when I was a child, my older cousins, sons of the aunt and uncle who took our family in, were arrested and thrown into jail for some minor infraction of the law. When one of my cousins protested that abuse, he was beaten so severely by the police that he almost died. I vividly remember seeing the results of that beating. A few years ago, when my own mother questioned a policeman who stopped her for a routine traffic violation in a Detroit suburb, the officer angrily told her she met the description of a woman wanted for abducting an elderly couple. He promptly arrested her, had her car impounded, and threw her into jail. I had to call a lawyer friend of mine, a fellow Yale alumnus, who used his contacts as a senior partner in a major Detroit law firm to get her released and to see that the bogus charges were dismissed."

""Most black people can cite similar personal experiences of injustice. President Clinton"s commission on race specifically cited the injustice of "racial profiling," which many police use to identify potential criminals," wrote Carson. "It is employed most often in traffic stops, for a crime sometimes derisively referred to in the African-American community as "driving while black.""

"Statistics support what many blacks have never doubted, that our justice system metes out different treatment to blacks and whites," Carson continued. "The disproportionate percentage of black murderers versus white murderers who receive the death penalty is just one example. The 1998 race commission report cited another when it urged the president to reduce the disparity in sentences for crimes involving powdered cocaine and its concentrated form, crack. The board said longer sentences for crimes involving crack, largely involving poor, black, or Hispanic offenders are "morally and intellectually indefensible."""

http://www.buzzfeed.com...


These issues have been simmering for decades, and not just with blacks but with disadvantaged minorities and a stagnating middle class. It is only now, in a time of social media buzz, that people sympathetic to the cause can vent their frustrations on a national level. Because social media has made access to information and ideas extremely prevalent and easy, we are hearing about these deep-seated injustices as if they were issues as destructive as Jim Crow.

Saying deep-seated injustices are as deep or as bad as the Jim Crow era isn't saying much. That doesn't mean they aren't deep or bad - just not *as* deep as back then.

This has to be the gravest insult addressed to the black community.. Yet, the evil intention of his comments slipped away unnoticed.

MLK also said things like this like what was stated in your LBJ quote....

Can you show any evidence that Ben Carson has changed his mind on those things?

Well, he certainly isn't going to be saying these things now that he's a big time Republican. I don't know if he's actually changed his mind on these issues.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
ben2974
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11/26/2015 3:07:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 1:26:18 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/13/2015 11:39:59 PM, ben2974 wrote:

MLK also said things like this like what was stated in your LBJ quote....

I agree that there are racial injustices.
ben2974
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11/26/2015 3:41:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 3:02:06 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/26/2015 2:46:36 AM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:56:29 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/25/2015 9:12:17 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 8:09:10 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.

I don't think anybody would claim there is only one factor at play in any sort of situation. The problem with saying there are many factors at play is to almost sweep the issue under the rug, as if to say, tough luck, it's just life. I'm not saying you're saying that, but I fear many make such a connection. Race is definitely the biggest contributing factor in some places like Ferguson, MO. Clearly some departments have issues and they need to retrain their officers. And officers must also have a more active role in the community by getting to know the citizens they serve and protect.


Yeah, I get that. But I also take issue with the reverse, which is those that inflate the involvement of racism tend to fail to try and look at the bigger picture, or at least the whole picture. What i'm really trying to say is that I feel like the black community uses perceived systematic racism as an excuse to continue aggravating the situation by confronting the problem aggressively.

I feel like the white community truly doesn't get it when it comes to systematic racism and as such members of that community will say things such as this.

Had we not been "aggressive" we'd still be getting lynched with regularity and stuck in legal "seperate but unequal". We've been "aggressively" talking about police brutality in our communities for DECADES (and people have been swallowing police lies about their conduct in our communities) but it's only recently entering the public consciousness because of social media and cameras. That people are shocked by things like this only shows they haven't been listening or dismissing our testimony.

This is what I believe to be the case for the killing of Michael Brown in the Ferguson affair. I felt/feel almost no sympathy for someone who was literally in the act of committing a crime and then shortly after decides to confront the police about a triviality that could have been 100% avoided if he had a little sense in him.

Well the communities don't convince me when they "pray for" and "support" people like Michael Brown. In my honest opinion, things like that hurt their cause/case. It's just not convincing. The Ferguson response and those like it show just how narrow the scope of one's judgement can be. And this is what the OP was hinting at: you can't wallow in self-pity and expect others to make you feel better all on their own, without helping yourself out first. It's definitely a balancing act, because there are outside forces that affect us but working on ourselves is just as important.

Listen to this guy talk about the ideas found in this thread: https://www.youtube.com...

If you honestly think the "Ferguson response" was merely about Michael Brown then that just speaks to what I was saying in the first place: you don't get systemic racism.

THIS is what the "Ferguson response" was about:

http://www.redstate.com...

It's not "wallowing in self pity" to point these things out.

I only read the conclusion. Basically what transpired in Ferguson is representative of the larger issue of institutionalized racism. So how do you suppose we fix this problem? Awareness is definitely the mode of action here, and it looks like Black Lives Matter is the product. Now, why do you think BLM is not working?
stealspell
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11/26/2015 8:36:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:48:22 AM, Wylted wrote:
If you think black people are inherently more prone to commit crimes, that's racist and also not true.

How is that racist? Do you think a group of people who are more prone to come from poverty, single family households and bad neighborhoods really have the exact same likelihood to grow up as productive members of society, as the group of people more likely to grow up with two parents, in a good neighborhood and easily able to put enough food on their table?

Now you're changing the subject. Of course a white person who comes from poverty is going to be at a significant disadvantage than a white person coming from a middle income household. That's a no-brainer.

But how is this relevant? You said, "[i]f your a cop and see more black people committing crimes, and then arrest more black people, because they commit more crimes are you really racist?"

Yes. Because whites deal more drugs than blacks, but blacks are caught and incarcerated more than whites. Or are you going to blame that on the dimwitted negro who just doesn't know how to get away with crime like white folks, and that's really the reason cops are catching them more than whites?

Are you honestly foolish enough to believe a disadvantaged group in society is less likely to have a bunch of criminals come out of it, than an advantaged group? I mean forget stats that actually prove my point, the fact that the disadvantaged group will be more prone to crime, is just common sense.

Hell, I gauruntee if I didn't have as tough of a life growing up, I personally wouldn't have spent so much time behind bars.

Cops arresting a lot of blacks is not evidence of cops being racist. At best it's evidence for how society has failed the black community.

The institutions themselves are racist, not necessarily individual cops who have hatred towards blacks, although there are quite a number of those as well.
stealspell
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11/26/2015 8:50:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 3:01:13 AM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:14:00 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 9:12:17 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 8:09:10 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:49:30 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

There's definitely a racist element in play; I will not deny this. But it's hard to make an honest assessment of the impact race alone has on police relations, as there are other factors that take part in explaining why minorities/the less affluent are so often victims of such tragedies. It is without a doubt, though, that the police are trigger happy and need more training in discipline, an example beingthe recent event of a black man getting shot SIXTEEN times. Like . . . why/WTF!? But again I won't accept that racism is the lone cause of this ridiculous police brutality.

I don't think anybody would claim there is only one factor at play in any sort of situation. The problem with saying there are many factors at play is to almost sweep the issue under the rug, as if to say, tough luck, it's just life. I'm not saying you're saying that, but I fear many make such a connection. Race is definitely the biggest contributing factor in some places like Ferguson, MO. Clearly some departments have issues and they need to retrain their officers. And officers must also have a more active role in the community by getting to know the citizens they serve and protect.


Yeah, I get that. But I also take issue with the reverse, which is those that inflate the involvement of racism tend to fail to try and look at the bigger picture, or at least the whole picture. What i'm really trying to say is that I feel like the black community uses perceived systematic racism as an excuse to continue aggravating the situation by confronting the problem aggressively. This is what I believe to be the case for the killing of Michael Brown in the Ferguson affair. I felt/feel almost no sympathy for someone who was literally in the act of committing a crime and then shortly after decides to confront the police about a triviality that could have been 100% avoided if he had a little sense in him.

I don't think you can accuse the black community of having a "perceived systematic racism" when blacks are disproportionately incarcerated, disproportionately pulled over, disproportionately searched, unfairly compensated, etc. The real problem lies in when one is not conscious of being racist. Racism can be as simple as treating someone differently then you would treat someone of the same race as yours but not be aware of it or do it deliberately. For example, people act differently toward strangers, differently towards friends, and differently towards family, and not always be doing it deliberately or be aware of it. It's the same with people who are different then you. It's more safe to assume that you will behave with prejudice towards someone at first until you actually get to know them. It's a natural human instinct to behave with prejudice. The key is to not let it cloud your judgment.

Prejudice isn't the same thing as racism. Also, I'm just going to refer to what Wylted said, in that because we observe more arrests/convictions for a certain demographic does not indicate a causal relationship with racism. Again, though, I can say flatly that racism does factor into the incarcerations for blacks. It's just not right to single it out and excuse behavior for it: it doesn't give you a free ticket to insult or provoke cops.

For an officer to see a white man walking down the street and think nothing of it and for the same officer to see a black man walking down the street and grow suspicious is both prejudice and racism.

You have to explain why it is that whites sell more drugs than blacks, yet blacks are incarcerated more than whites. Is it because blacks are stupid and can't get away with it like white people? Because I honestly don't know what else it could be except that or racism.

Have you read the Department of Justice's internal investigation report on the Ferguson Police Department? It's shocking to see how racist that department is.
ken1122
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11/26/2015 11:24:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 7:20:56 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/25/2015 6:43:12 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Curious what people think of this

So are you denying there's racism in Police Departments?

I don"t think racism is the problem, it it were black cops would react differently than white cops. I think the problem is that cops are human and when you work in a community and you see a lot of black people who are committing crimes, you start treating all black people as criminals because you can"t always tell the criminals from the regular folk because they look the same.

Ken
ken1122
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11/26/2015 11:33:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 8:50:45 AM, stealspell wrote:
You have to explain why it is that whites sell more drugs than blacks, yet blacks are incarcerated more than whites. Is it because blacks are stupid and can't get away with it like white people? Because I honestly don't know what else it could be except that or racism.

According to the FBI more whites are incarcerated than blacks, even for drug offenses.
https://www.fbi.gov...

Ken
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11/26/2015 11:48:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 11:33:23 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 11/26/2015 8:50:45 AM, stealspell wrote:
You have to explain why it is that whites sell more drugs than blacks, yet blacks are incarcerated more than whites. Is it because blacks are stupid and can't get away with it like white people? Because I honestly don't know what else it could be except that or racism.

According to the FBI more whites are incarcerated than blacks, even for drug offenses.
https://www.fbi.gov...

Ken

Because there are more whites. That's why you can't go by the totals but should rather look at the proportions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

And there is racism in many police departments. Read the DOJ's investigated report on Ferguson, MO. The whole thing is overflowing with examples of racism.

The Chicago Police Department tried to cover up Laquan McDonald's murder. If it wasn't for a journalist who sued the police department requesting for the dash cam footage that he and multiple other news reporters had requested under the freedom of information act, the video would have never been seen by the public. The journalist won the lawsuit and the judge ordered the video be released. There is so much racism it's pretty sickening to be honest.
ken1122
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11/26/2015 11:59:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 11:48:58 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/26/2015 11:33:23 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 11/26/2015 8:50:45 AM, stealspell wrote:
You have to explain why it is that whites sell more drugs than blacks, yet blacks are incarcerated more than whites. Is it because blacks are stupid and can't get away with it like white people? Because I honestly don't know what else it could be except that or racism.

According to the FBI more whites are incarcerated than blacks, even for drug offenses.
https://www.fbi.gov...

Ken

Because there are more whites. That's why you can't go by the totals but should rather look at the proportions.
How many white people do you see openly selling drugs on every street corner in the white neighborhoods?
How many black people do you see openly selling drugs on every street corner in the black neighborhoods?


https://www.washingtonpost.com...

And there is racism in many police departments. Read the DOJ's investigated report on Ferguson, MO. The whole thing is overflowing with examples of racism.

The Chicago Police Department tried to cover up Laquan McDonald's murder. If it wasn't for a journalist who sued the police department requesting for the dash cam footage that he and multiple other news reporters had requested under the freedom of information act, the video would have never been seen by the public. The journalist won the lawsuit and the judge ordered the video be released. There is so much racism it's pretty sickening to be honest.
At first you said police departments are racist; painting them all with the same brush. Now you seem to be saying SOME police departments are racist. Are some police departments crooked? Sure! But let's not pretend they all are.

Ken
stealspell
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11/26/2015 12:11:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 11:59:46 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 11/26/2015 11:48:58 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/26/2015 11:33:23 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 11/26/2015 8:50:45 AM, stealspell wrote:
You have to explain why it is that whites sell more drugs than blacks, yet blacks are incarcerated more than whites. Is it because blacks are stupid and can't get away with it like white people? Because I honestly don't know what else it could be except that or racism.

According to the FBI more whites are incarcerated than blacks, even for drug offenses.
https://www.fbi.gov...

Ken

Because there are more whites. That's why you can't go by the totals but should rather look at the proportions.
How many white people do you see openly selling drugs on every street corner in the white neighborhoods?
How many black people do you see openly selling drugs on every street corner in the black neighborhoods?

What's the relevance of this? You're changing the subject now.


https://www.washingtonpost.com...

And there is racism in many police departments. Read the DOJ's investigated report on Ferguson, MO. The whole thing is overflowing with examples of racism.

The Chicago Police Department tried to cover up Laquan McDonald's murder. If it wasn't for a journalist who sued the police department requesting for the dash cam footage that he and multiple other news reporters had requested under the freedom of information act, the video would have never been seen by the public. The journalist won the lawsuit and the judge ordered the video be released. There is so much racism it's pretty sickening to be honest.
At first you said police departments are racist; painting them all with the same brush. Now you seem to be saying SOME police departments are racist. Are some police departments crooked? Sure! But let's not pretend they all are.

Ken

Quote me where I painted them all with the same brush. I dare you.
ken1122
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11/26/2015 12:15:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 11:48:58 AM, stealspell wrote:

Because there are more whites. That's why you can't go by the totals but should rather look at the proportions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

I noticed your link that says whites are more likely to sell drugs than blacks uses data from nearly 40 years ago; before crack was introduced. Do you have anything a little more recent that supports this claim?

Ken
ken1122
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11/26/2015 12:22:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:11:42 PM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/26/2015 11:59:46 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 11/26/2015 11:48:58 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/26/2015 11:33:23 AM, ken1122 wrote:
At 11/26/2015 8:50:45 AM, stealspell wrote:
You have to explain why it is that whites sell more drugs than blacks, yet blacks are incarcerated more than whites. Is it because blacks are stupid and can't get away with it like white people? Because I honestly don't know what else it could be except that or racism.

According to the FBI more whites are incarcerated than blacks, even for drug offenses.
https://www.fbi.gov...

Ken

Because there are more whites. That's why you can't go by the totals but should rather look at the proportions.
How many white people do you see openly selling drugs on every street corner in the white neighborhoods?
How many black people do you see openly selling drugs on every street corner in the black neighborhoods?

What's the relevance of this? You're changing the subject now.
It's relevant because when you commit crimes in the open you are more likely to get caught.


https://www.washingtonpost.com...

And there is racism in many police departments. Read the DOJ's investigated report on Ferguson, MO. The whole thing is overflowing with examples of racism.

The Chicago Police Department tried to cover up Laquan McDonald's murder. If it wasn't for a journalist who sued the police department requesting for the dash cam footage that he and multiple other news reporters had requested under the freedom of information act, the video would have never been seen by the public. The journalist won the lawsuit and the judge ordered the video be released. There is so much racism it's pretty sickening to be honest.
At first you said police departments are racist; painting them all with the same brush. Now you seem to be saying SOME police departments are racist. Are some police departments crooked? Sure! But let's not pretend they all are.

Ken

Quote me where I painted them all with the same brush. I dare you.
Your very first post you asked "Are you denying there is racism in police departments?"
Because you didn't specify some police departments, it appears you are painting all police departments with the same brush.

Ken
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/26/2015 12:33:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 8:36:58 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:48:22 AM, Wylted wrote:
If you think black people are inherently more prone to commit crimes, that's racist and also not true.

How is that racist? Do you think a group of people who are more prone to come from poverty, single family households and bad neighborhoods really have the exact same likelihood to grow up as productive members of society, as the group of people more likely to grow up with two parents, in a good neighborhood and easily able to put enough food on their table?

Now you're changing the subject. Of course a white person who comes from poverty is going to be at a significant disadvantage than a white person coming from a middle income household. That's a no-brainer.

The argument is that a disadvantaged person is more likely to commit crime, which is obviously true. You've also overlooked the obvious fact that blacks are more likely to come from disadvantaged backgrounds.

But how is this relevant? You said, "[i]f your a cop and see more black people committing crimes, and then arrest more black people, because they commit more crimes are you really racist?"

Look up the definition of racist. The response to facts is to try and disprove them, but these are true, so you can't. Black people are more likely to commit violent crimes.

Yes. Because whites deal more drugs than blacks, but blacks are caught and incarcerated more than whites. Or are you going to blame that on the dimwitted negro who just doesn't know how to get away with crime like white folks, and that's really the reason cops are catching them more than whites?

Do you even bother to read the same exact studies that conclude that more blacks are arrested for drug crimes, while the same amount of whites do drugs? I mean take the time to read them. They explain more blacks being arrested for the crimes, as a result of the fact that blacks are more likely to both deal and do drugs in public. Whites that deal in public are just as likely to be arrested as blacks who do the same thing, and blacks who do that behind doors are just as likely to be arrested as whites who do it behind doors. Blacks are disproportionately likely to be arrested for drug crimes, because they disproportionately do drug crimes in public.

Are you honestly foolish enough to believe a disadvantaged group in society is less likely to have a bunch of criminals come out of it, than an advantaged group? I mean forget stats that actually prove my point, the fact that the disadvantaged group will be more prone to crime, is just common sense.

Hell, I gauruntee if I didn't have as tough of a life growing up, I personally wouldn't have spent so much time behind bars.

Cops arresting a lot of blacks is not evidence of cops being racist. At best it's evidence for how society has failed the black community.

The institutions themselves are racist, not necessarily individual cops who have hatred towards blacks, although there are quite a number of those as well.

So inanimate objects are racist? How does the system treat blacks differently? Do you mind showing me the specific laws, that say blacks should be prosecuted for crimes differently?