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Sanders on Iraq, 1991; 2002

1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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11/16/2015 7:48:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
There's a reason I don't buy the excuse of "we never could've known what would happen." Whoever uses that excuse: Clinton or whoever - bullsh!t.

This is the reason:

1991: https://www.youtube.com...

2002: https://www.youtube.com...

The one from 1991 really shows how much the majority of the people we elect really care about us.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/16/2015 4:40:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 7:48:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
There's a reason I don't buy the excuse of "we never could've known what would happen." Whoever uses that excuse: Clinton or whoever - bullsh!t.

This is the reason:

1991: https://www.youtube.com...

2002: https://www.youtube.com...

The one from 1991 really shows how much the majority of the people we elect really care about us.

I have not watched the videos yet, I will, but yah, plenty of people were objecting to the common narrative. This "everyone agreed on wmd" is such crap.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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11/16/2015 5:19:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 7:48:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
There's a reason I don't buy the excuse of "we never could've known what would happen." Whoever uses that excuse: Clinton or whoever - bullsh!t.

This is the reason:

1991: https://www.youtube.com...

2002: https://www.youtube.com...

The one from 1991 really shows how much the majority of the people we elect really care about us.

Why the crap did he protest the 1991 Iraq War? Didn't we wage that one to defend Kuwait against an invasion?
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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11/16/2015 5:50:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 5:19:50 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:48:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
There's a reason I don't buy the excuse of "we never could've known what would happen." Whoever uses that excuse: Clinton or whoever - bullsh!t.

This is the reason:

1991: https://www.youtube.com...

2002: https://www.youtube.com...

The one from 1991 really shows how much the majority of the people we elect really care about us.

Why the crap did he protest the 1991 Iraq War? Didn't we wage that one to defend Kuwait against an invasion?

Watch.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/16/2015 6:25:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 5:19:50 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:48:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
There's a reason I don't buy the excuse of "we never could've known what would happen." Whoever uses that excuse: Clinton or whoever - bullsh!t.

This is the reason:

1991: https://www.youtube.com...

2002: https://www.youtube.com...

The one from 1991 really shows how much the majority of the people we elect really care about us.

Why the crap did he protest the 1991 Iraq War? Didn't we wage that one to defend Kuwait against an invasion?

The first gulf war was not straightforward as you want to think either. It is not like Iraq had no reason for invading, there were legit reasons (from Saddam's perspective). We jumped into a battle (like many in the area) that was NOT ours in the first place.

We have to stop thinking we can run the life's and governments of every nation in the M.E.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/16/2015 6:30:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 7:48:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
There's a reason I don't buy the excuse of "we never could've known what would happen." Whoever uses that excuse: Clinton or whoever - bullsh!t.

This is the reason:

1991: https://www.youtube.com...

2002: https://www.youtube.com...

The one from 1991 really shows how much the majority of the people we elect really care about us.

Just watched them. I love this guy. He will likely not the nomination, but he is simply great.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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11/16/2015 6:40:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 6:25:53 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/16/2015 5:19:50 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/16/2015 7:48:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
There's a reason I don't buy the excuse of "we never could've known what would happen." Whoever uses that excuse: Clinton or whoever - bullsh!t.

This is the reason:

1991: https://www.youtube.com...

2002: https://www.youtube.com...

The one from 1991 really shows how much the majority of the people we elect really care about us.

Why the crap did he protest the 1991 Iraq War? Didn't we wage that one to defend Kuwait against an invasion?

The first gulf war was not straightforward as you want to think either. It is not like Iraq had no reason for invading, there were legit reasons (from Saddam's perspective). We jumped into a battle (like many in the area) that was NOT ours in the first place.

Saddam accused Kuwait of slanted drilling (that is, drilling diagonally so as to be able to siphon oil inside Iraqi territory). However, many people agree that the most probable reason for the invasion was a desire to not repay an 80 billion dollar debt that he owed Kuwait. He probably had no legitimate reason for invading Kuwait.

We have to stop thinking we can run the life's and governments of every nation in the M.E.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/16/2015 7:03:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Why the crap did he protest the 1991 Iraq War? Didn't we wage that one to defend Kuwait against an invasion?

The first gulf war was not straightforward as you want to think either. It is not like Iraq had no reason for invading, there were legit reasons (from Saddam's perspective). We jumped into a battle (like many in the area) that was NOT ours in the first place.

Saddam accused Kuwait of slanted drilling (that is, drilling diagonally so as to be able to siphon oil inside Iraqi territory). However, many people agree that the most probable reason for the invasion was a desire to not repay an 80 billion dollar debt that he owed Kuwait. He probably had no legitimate reason for invading Kuwait.

We have to stop thinking we can run the life's and governments of every nation in the M.E.

Yea, those are two keys. Kuwait and the Saudis were messing with the oil supply, messing with world oil prices, hindering the ability to repay. Repay a debt that Kuwait was happy to allow Iran run up rather than fight Iraq themselves.

The actual land in dispute was in dispute for a very long time. This, like so many of these border issues, goes back to disputes after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. I say yet again, not our battle, but we keep sticking our noses into it anyway.

The argument can be made that the first gulf war was warranted - that I am not disputing. That it was necessary, or really any of our business simply is part of the discussion.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,065
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11/16/2015 7:09:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 7:03:11 PM, TBR wrote:
Why the crap did he protest the 1991 Iraq War? Didn't we wage that one to defend Kuwait against an invasion?

The first gulf war was not straightforward as you want to think either. It is not like Iraq had no reason for invading, there were legit reasons (from Saddam's perspective). We jumped into a battle (like many in the area) that was NOT ours in the first place.

Saddam accused Kuwait of slanted drilling (that is, drilling diagonally so as to be able to siphon oil inside Iraqi territory). However, many people agree that the most probable reason for the invasion was a desire to not repay an 80 billion dollar debt that he owed Kuwait. He probably had no legitimate reason for invading Kuwait.

We have to stop thinking we can run the life's and governments of every nation in the M.E.

Yea, those are two keys. Kuwait and the Saudis were messing with the oil supply, messing with world oil prices, hindering the ability to repay. Repay a debt that Kuwait was happy to allow Iran run up rather than fight Iraq themselves.

The actual land in dispute was in dispute for a very long time. This, like so many of these border issues, goes back to disputes after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. I say yet again, not our battle, but we keep sticking our noses into it anyway.

The argument can be made that the first gulf war was warranted - that I am not disputing. That it was necessary, or really any of our business simply is part of the discussion.

It is the world's business whenever one nation engages in imperialism and unjustly occupies another.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

The DDO Blog:
https://debatedotorg.wordpress.com...

#drinkthecoffeenotthekoolaid
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/16/2015 7:18:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It is the world's business whenever one nation engages in imperialism and unjustly occupies another.

That is true. Now, who is stopping us from the same?

Again, I am not taking a side on if the first gulf war was just or not. Just saying that it was not as clear cut as it might seem. I say that it did us no good the the long run. I say it was not a total success. I say our "national interests" test is sketchy.