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Governors refusing refugees

Todd0611
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11/17/2015 4:20:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:21:16 PM, TBR wrote:
Not that I expected anything different, but here we are.

Thoughts?

TBR- hope you are well. I get the compassion to want to help the refugees, and it's a sad situation, but financially, and logistically, wouldn't it make more sense to provide shelter for them closer to home? I get the fear these governors have (real or imagined), but if just one is a "sleeper terrorist", and something bad happens, then that governor would feel like he could have prevented something from happening. Again, I understand wanting to help, but I think we should take care of our own, before taking in more people. Veterans and homeless people that are US citizens should be helped, clothed, fed, and sheltered first. I mean if we're going to help outsiders, why don't we help our own, especially the vets who served this country?

It's just like the illegals coming in from the South, the overwhelming majority are not criminals, but some are. The same could be said for these refugees, 99% could be good, but what about the 1%, who may be criminals. There has to be a vetting process-but logistically, how is that feasible when we're talking about thousands of people at a time.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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11/17/2015 4:24:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't see the logic in moving them all to the U.S. anyway.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
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1Percenter
Posts: 781
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11/17/2015 4:38:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Glad to see there is some amount of common sense left in some of our leaders. The refugee crisis is a modern Trojan horse.
1harderthanyouthink
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11/17/2015 4:41:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:38:05 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
Glad to see there is some amount of common sense left in some of our leaders. The refugee crisis is a modern Trojan horse.

Lol keep thinking that.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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ben2974
Posts: 767
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11/17/2015 4:42:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:24:14 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't see the logic in moving them all to the U.S. anyway.

I'm pretty sure the neighboring arab countries like Jordan have taken in millions already
UtherPenguin
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11/17/2015 4:45:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:21:16 PM, TBR wrote:
Not that I expected anything different, but here we are.

Thoughts?

Thanks to them, we are preventing the Moose-limb conquest of the West. I mean, look at Germany, they're already a Ca-lee-fate by now!1221312

They are stoping the Iz-lamb-ization of America! !!!!21
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
ben2974
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11/17/2015 4:51:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:46:15 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:43:06 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Relevant:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

History always repeats itself.

But you will grant that they don't parallel completely, right?
UtherPenguin
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11/17/2015 4:53:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:51:57 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:46:15 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:43:06 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Relevant:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

History always repeats itself.

But you will grant that they don't parallel completely, right?

Yes.
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/17/2015 8:19:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:21:16 PM, TBR wrote:
Not that I expected anything different, but here we are.

Thoughts?

They have no legal authority to do do it, so--at most--it's a symbolic gesture.
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TBR
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11/17/2015 8:34:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 8:19:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:21:16 PM, TBR wrote:
Not that I expected anything different, but here we are.

Thoughts?

They have no legal authority to do do it, so--at most--it's a symbolic gesture.

And it sure is a flashing symbol, right?
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/17/2015 8:37:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 8:34:37 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/17/2015 8:19:45 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:21:16 PM, TBR wrote:
Not that I expected anything different, but here we are.

Thoughts?

They have no legal authority to do do it, so--at most--it's a symbolic gesture.

And it sure is a flashing symbol, right?

A sad one, yes.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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11/17/2015 9:01:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:21:16 PM, TBR wrote:
Not that I expected anything different, but here we are.

Thoughts?

The "stealth jihad" or "silent jihad" movements are in place. Taquiyya is the act of lying and concealing your Muslim beliefs in Islam. Obama/George Soros has inacted this to get into and maintain his position. He went to a Muslim school in Indonesia. He wants us to have no guns. He praises Islam at every turn saying,"Islam shaped America into what it is today." What? And now he's bringing in 200,000 Islamic Syrian refugees over 2 years. Someone impeach the trader for God's sake. Enough is enough.
Vox_Veritas
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11/17/2015 9:12:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:43:06 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Relevant:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Not really. There are a myriad of very important differences between the situation then and the situation now.
1. The Jews were a minority all over the world a they still are, whereas Arabs are one of the biggest ethnic groups in the world. Mass Islamic migration to the West, even if 100% of the refugees are innocent, threatens a certain balance.
2. Jewish terrorism was not a threat in 1938. It was extremely improbable that even a single Jewish refugee would've committed an act of terrorism. Meanwhile, as someone else pointed out even 1% of the current refugees being Islamist could be massively damaging to the United States, and in this case there is a very high probability that at least a few ISIL militants will slip in with the refugees. Even if by some true miracle they don't, future radicalization of these immigrants could occur with any future U.S. military intervention in the middle east. Or, a person who isn't a militant currently may harbor feelings of hatred for the United States and act upon these feelings in the future through terrorism and/or joining militants. I'd also like to point out that many Muslim children in Iraq and Syria are being indoctrinated by the ISIL. If these children later flee with their parents and end up in the United States, well...you get the idea. If the refugees are a real danger to America then I say that Americans have no moral obligation to take them in.
3. Our current leaders are retarded and as a result it's unlikely that the refugees would be deported as soon as Iraq and Syria were no longer war zones. Our Government's reaction to Illegal Immigration, even under the leadership of George W. Bush, has demonstrated this to be fact, especially whenever the migrants are able to hide behind the "refugee" label (we don't even deport illegals who aren't migrants and are extremely unlikely to commit acts of terrorism). Our leaders 70 years ago would have more sense.
4. The current refugees are not, for the most part, facing extermination by their government or by the ISIL. Assad's a butcher but he isn't quite on Hitler's level.
5. In 1938 the Government wouldn't spend tons of money to help the refugees it took in; the refugees would have to fend entirely for themselves. In 2015 this wouldn't be the case.
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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,074
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11/17/2015 9:14:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If the U.S. wants to help the people of Iraq and Syria then it can start by putting boots on the ground and ending both conflicts.
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IntellectVsSpirit5000
Posts: 1,266
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11/17/2015 9:15:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The only countries where the success of the enlightenment was manifest were the nations where the populace maintained traditional Christian ethics. We can see that as these nations lose their Christian roots they are quickly losing social cohesion and any understanding of who they are.
IntellectVsSpirit5000
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11/17/2015 9:16:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
While Islam is united and growing at the speed of light. The West, sadly, will not continue to exist barring a world wide battle.
ben2974
Posts: 767
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11/17/2015 10:11:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 9:12:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:43:06 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Relevant:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Not really. There are a myriad of very important differences between the situation then and the situation now.
1. The Jews were a minority all over the world a they still are, whereas Arabs are one of the biggest ethnic groups in the world. Mass Islamic migration to the West, even if 100% of the refugees are innocent, threatens a certain balance.
2. Jewish terrorism was not a threat in 1938. It was extremely improbable that even a single Jewish refugee would've committed an act of terrorism. Meanwhile, as someone else pointed out even 1% of the current refugees being Islamist could be massively damaging to the United States, and in this case there is a very high probability that at least a few ISIL militants will slip in with the refugees. Even if by some true miracle they don't, future radicalization of these immigrants could occur with any future U.S. military intervention in the middle east. Or, a person who isn't a militant currently may harbor feelings of hatred for the United States and act upon these feelings in the future through terrorism and/or joining militants. I'd also like to point out that many Muslim children in Iraq and Syria are being indoctrinated by the ISIL. If these children later flee with their parents and end up in the United States, well...you get the idea. If the refugees are a real danger to America then I say that Americans have no moral obligation to take them in.
3. Our current leaders are retarded and as a result it's unlikely that the refugees would be deported as soon as Iraq and Syria were no longer war zones. Our Government's reaction to Illegal Immigration, even under the leadership of George W. Bush, has demonstrated this to be fact, especially whenever the migrants are able to hide behind the "refugee" label (we don't even deport illegals who aren't migrants and are extremely unlikely to commit acts of terrorism). Our leaders 70 years ago would have more sense.
4. The current refugees are not, for the most part, facing extermination by their government or by the ISIL. Assad's a butcher but he isn't quite on Hitler's level.
5. In 1938 the Government wouldn't spend tons of money to help the refugees it took in; the refugees would have to fend entirely for themselves. In 2015 this wouldn't be the case.

Point 1, parts of 2, and 4 I think are the most salient points mentioned. These are dynamics that truly differentiate crises. But, regardless, the Syrians are refugees for a reason; we shouldn't deny some entrance.
Vox_Veritas
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11/17/2015 10:17:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 10:11:47 PM, ben2974 wrote:
At 11/17/2015 9:12:53 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:43:06 PM, ben2974 wrote:
Relevant:
https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Not really. There are a myriad of very important differences between the situation then and the situation now.
1. The Jews were a minority all over the world a they still are, whereas Arabs are one of the biggest ethnic groups in the world. Mass Islamic migration to the West, even if 100% of the refugees are innocent, threatens a certain balance.
2. Jewish terrorism was not a threat in 1938. It was extremely improbable that even a single Jewish refugee would've committed an act of terrorism. Meanwhile, as someone else pointed out even 1% of the current refugees being Islamist could be massively damaging to the United States, and in this case there is a very high probability that at least a few ISIL militants will slip in with the refugees. Even if by some true miracle they don't, future radicalization of these immigrants could occur with any future U.S. military intervention in the middle east. Or, a person who isn't a militant currently may harbor feelings of hatred for the United States and act upon these feelings in the future through terrorism and/or joining militants. I'd also like to point out that many Muslim children in Iraq and Syria are being indoctrinated by the ISIL. If these children later flee with their parents and end up in the United States, well...you get the idea. If the refugees are a real danger to America then I say that Americans have no moral obligation to take them in.
3. Our current leaders are retarded and as a result it's unlikely that the refugees would be deported as soon as Iraq and Syria were no longer war zones. Our Government's reaction to Illegal Immigration, even under the leadership of George W. Bush, has demonstrated this to be fact, especially whenever the migrants are able to hide behind the "refugee" label (we don't even deport illegals who aren't migrants and are extremely unlikely to commit acts of terrorism). Our leaders 70 years ago would have more sense.
4. The current refugees are not, for the most part, facing extermination by their government or by the ISIL. Assad's a butcher but he isn't quite on Hitler's level.
5. In 1938 the Government wouldn't spend tons of money to help the refugees it took in; the refugees would have to fend entirely for themselves. In 2015 this wouldn't be the case.

Point 1, parts of 2, and 4 I think are the most salient points mentioned. These are dynamics that truly differentiate crises. But, regardless, the Syrians are refugees for a reason; we shouldn't deny some entrance.

I suppose that the U.S. has more of an obligation than Europe considering that the Europeans consist of a very specific kind of people while America's that place where random people around the world go to live.
Still, the risk that these people create is not something any reasonable person can deny. We must be sure that the refugees are sent back as soon as the crisis is over (and we should take strong action to end the crisis as soon as possible). We should only accept them if our leaders are willing to accept this condition and the refugees are also made aware of this.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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11/17/2015 11:39:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:21:16 PM, TBR wrote:
Not that I expected anything different, but here we are.

Thoughts?

I am pretty sure a 1913 Supreme Court case prohibits this...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
UtherPenguin
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11/18/2015 12:12:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 9:01:25 PM, IntellectVsSpirit5000 wrote:
At 11/17/2015 3:21:16 PM, TBR wrote:
Not that I expected anything different, but here we are.

Thoughts?

The "stealth jihad" or "silent jihad" movements are in place. Taquiyya is the act of lying and concealing your Muslim beliefs in Islam. Obama/George Soros has inacted this to get into and maintain his position. He went to a Muslim school in Indonesia. He wants us to have no guns. He praises Islam at every turn saying,"Islam shaped America into what it is today." What? And now he's bringing in 200,000 Islamic Syrian refugees over 2 years. Someone impeach the trader for God's sake. Enough is enough.

Oh shoot, how did you find out our plans?!
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,383
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11/18/2015 1:41:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:21:16 PM, TBR wrote:
Not that I expected anything different, but here we are.

Thoughts?

Meh. I can't really blame them, but It would be generous to allow them regardless.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
YYW
Posts: 36,289
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11/18/2015 2:15:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 3:21:16 PM, TBR wrote:
Not that I expected anything different, but here we are.

Thoughts?

I have seen people on the internet (who are so obviously not lawyers) weigh in on the legal aspects of this development. As always, I'm terribly amused. It's like watching children play with blocks.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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11/18/2015 2:21:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 4:38:05 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
Glad to see there is some amount of common sense left in some of our leaders. The refugee crisis is a modern Trojan horse.

I'm dubious about that analogy, for these reasons: (1) the Trojan's horse was offered as a gift to the city of Troy, which the Greeks had been trying to seize for nearly a decade. The refugees are hardly a gift. More like a burden. (2) Greece was a state, and it was functioning as a state against another state. In contrast, ISIS is a pathetic conglomeration of wannabe factionalists whose sole objective is to "cause" terror, not really to *seize* any particular piece of geographic territory. So, while I agree that the refugees present the perfect opportunity for some evildoer to sneak into the first world, to characterize them as a "trojan horse" is a bit much.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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11/18/2015 2:21:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/17/2015 9:14:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
If the U.S. wants to help the people of Iraq and Syria then it can start by putting boots on the ground and ending both conflicts.

Not now, no. Now is not the time for that.
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1Percenter
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11/18/2015 2:35:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 2:21:08 AM, YYW wrote:
At 11/17/2015 4:38:05 PM, 1Percenter wrote:
Glad to see there is some amount of common sense left in some of our leaders. The refugee crisis is a modern Trojan horse.

I'm dubious about that analogy, for these reasons: (1) the Trojan's horse was offered as a gift to the city of Troy, which the Greeks had been trying to seize for nearly a decade. The refugees are hardly a gift. More like a burden.


Clearly you haven't been paying attention to what the open-borders activists and such have been saying.
(2) Greece was a state, and it was functioning as a state against another state. In contrast, ISIS is a pathetic conglomeration of wannabe factionalists whose sole objective is to "cause" terror, not really to *seize* any particular piece of geographic territory. So, while I agree that the refugees present the perfect opportunity for some evildoer to sneak into the first world, to characterize them as a "trojan horse" is a bit much.

This has nothing to do with the analogy.
Vox_Veritas
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11/18/2015 3:37:01 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 2:21:29 AM, YYW wrote:
At 11/17/2015 9:14:57 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
If the U.S. wants to help the people of Iraq and Syria then it can start by putting boots on the ground and ending both conflicts.

Not now, no. Now is not the time for that.

So you're saying there's a good reason why the international community has let the Syrian Civil War go on for four years and why it's done little beyond airstrikes against the ISIL.
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Dilara
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11/18/2015 4:13:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
European countries should be refusing immigrants. These countries have taken more than they can handle, so its up to america to help them out.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org... http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org...
We should be careful about who we allow in, as two of the terrorists involved in Fridays attackers were "refugees" who entered Europe through Greece.