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How to make Europe secure

Vox_Veritas
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11/18/2015 5:14:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Muslim population of Europe undeniably poses at least some degree of danger to the indigenous Europeans. For various reasons it's extremely unlikely that "deportation" will be turned to as a solution. So we won't get into this.
What solution(s) do you feel would help a newly diverse Europe remain fairly secure from terrorism or ethnic violence?
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Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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11/18/2015 8:00:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 5:14:27 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
The Muslim population of Europe undeniably poses at least some degree of danger to the indigenous Europeans. For various reasons it's extremely unlikely that "deportation" will be turned to as a solution. So we won't get into this.
What solution(s) do you feel would help a newly diverse Europe remain fairly secure from terrorism or ethnic violence?

Send them to camp..................if ya get my drift.
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Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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11/18/2015 1:17:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
My own solutions would be:

-Identifying with the societal factors involved--I.E, if I was a leader of a country such as France or Belgium, the proper integration of Muslims would be one of the key priorities in *avoiding* further radicalisation of individuals. A large number of people that commit terrorist attacks are not actually practicing Muslims who have led religious lives, but drug/drink users and petty criminals who are disengaged from society.

-Improve security measures. Once again, this would be one of the most important things to do. The Belgium authorities knew about some of these men and the *fact* that they were a potential danger. More precautions need to be put in place and intelligence within and between European countries should be increased and shared more effectively, in the aftermath of the Paris attacks.

-Stop radical hate preachers. This would likely be the most difficult step, because of the matter of 'free speech' and 'human rights'. But I would seriously try to make a case for not only imprisoning these individuals but completely isolating them. Sending them back to their native countries would be an option, but the likelihood is that they'd just reengage with young Muslims and thus the radicalisation would continue. All of the men responsible for the Paris attacks were influenced by and in communication with Muslim hate preachers, as were the two people responsible for murdering a British solider on the streets of London in 2013.

-Pull out from the Middle East. Personally, I would disengage entirely from the Middle East and cease all military involvement--as that's exactly what's created this issue in the first place. I would stop advocating for the removal of Assad (as France has done), and distance myself slightly away from the U.S.

-Encourage more openness with Muslim families and put more communication options in place. In my opinion, a significant factor in *why* young Muslims are being radicalized is because of there is a lack of honest and open discussion between Muslim families. *IF* they are suspicious of anybody, they should be encouraged to report them to the authorities. And if they are concerned about family members or friends, they should be able to communicate it with them. An example would be the two teenage British girls that travelled to Syria last year, they were basically being radicalized online *without* any questions from their immediate family--and thus were able to fly to Syria, amazingly without being stopped.

-Lastly, I would strengthen border control and refuse to take in any migrants unless they have travelled legally and have had full security checks. Their passports would have to be confirmed as authentic, because a significant number of Syrians are receiving *fake* passports from human traffickers--which is another thing I'd address. There are people within the Middle East that are making large sums of profit as a result of trafficking people and sending them into Europe on rubber boats.
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beng100
Posts: 1,055
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11/18/2015 2:33:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 5:14:27 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
The Muslim population of Europe undeniably poses at least some degree of danger to the indigenous Europeans. For various reasons it's extremely unlikely that "deportation" will be turned to as a solution. So we won't get into this.
What solution(s) do you feel would help a newly diverse Europe remain fairly secure from terrorism or ethnic violence?

Solutions.

1. Fund a way to defeat IS and end the civil war in syria. Most likely through military action.

2. Find and document all illegal migrants and deport them back to their country of origin.

3. Introduce effective controls on Europe's borders, intercepting and turn back illegal migrants.

4. Patrol the Mediterranean sea heavily to intercept boats carrying migrants.

5. Place more emphasis on tracking down people smugglers and when captured look at imposing heavy judical penalties.

6. Cooperate more with Turkey to prevent migrants leaving its shores.

7. Arrest all known people with links to terrorism and hold them until they prove innocence.

8. Check people traveling to Syria and Iraq to intercept and prevent radicalization at an early stage.

9. Introduce better support for families worried about someone they know being radicalized and offer them support and help to deradicalize the individual in question.

10. Hunt down arrest and charge all radical hate preaching imams. Do not release these individuals into society under any circumstances unless they can prove they are reformed.

11. Increase counter terrorism spending.

12. Place an emphasis on integrating Muslim citizens into society and reach out to them in solidarity rather then blame them for the crazy actions of the barbaric terrorist actions of Islamic state.

13. Carry out thorough checks on all individuals returning from Iraq and Syria to ensure they have no terrorist links.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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11/18/2015 4:23:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think we should apologize in advance to Islam for what we are about to do to Muslims. The Islamists made a big mistake indiscriminately attacking our youth in the Paris massacre. This is an age group that are not accountably mature or circumscribed in their actions and will retaliate against Muslims beyond rational bounds.
The teachings of the illiterate prophet Mohammad might have help Muslims if the sword was only in their hands. But being illiterate the prophet never considered there are more swords/guns in the hands of the free world and his jihadists militants have only provoked the wrath of our youth who have their whole lives ahead of them to avenge their loss.
I shudder to think of the consequences of the actions by a few Islamists jihadists who not only are displacing millions of Muslims but also using them as a wedge to anger the free world.
All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons. No Christian should have to die for the beliefs of Muslims and neither should their blood stain our hands.
It is their religion, their prophet and their leaders who have brought this upon them. We should not be held guilty for their demise nor should we participate in their jihadists worldview. Just send them home in peace. Their prophet awaits them.
PEACE BE UPON ALL.
imabench
Posts: 21,230
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11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......
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Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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11/18/2015 4:50:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM, imabench wrote:
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......

It is ok for Muslims to kill Muslims. It is already happening in the Middle East. So rather than have Muslim blood on our hands killing jihadists or radicalized Muslims , train tbe Muslim refugees and migrants to defend themselves before sending them back to their Islamic countries to deal with their own demons/countrymen.
No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs. Paris massacres can be prevented by keeping the city free of Muslims. Muslims both attract and participate in Jihadism.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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11/18/2015 5:00:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 4:50:44 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM, imabench wrote:
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......

It is ok for Muslims to kill Muslims. It is already happening in the Middle East. So rather than have Muslim blood on our hands killing jihadists or radicalized Muslims , train tbe Muslim refugees and migrants to defend themselves before sending them back to their Islamic countries to deal with their own demons/countrymen.
No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs. Paris massacres can be prevented by keeping the city free of Muslims. Muslims both attract and participate in Jihadism.

As Europeans go there is no one more opposed to continued illegal immigration than me. However deporting citizens just for being Muslims seems highly unfair and unnecessary. Read my solutions at the top of the page. That's a better way to deal with things. Discriminating on religious grounds is something that belongs in the 18 th century not the 21st one.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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11/18/2015 5:13:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 5:00:59 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:50:44 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM, imabench wrote:
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......

It is ok for Muslims to kill Muslims. It is already happening in the Middle East. So rather than have Muslim blood on our hands killing jihadists or radicalized Muslims , train tbe Muslim refugees and migrants to defend themselves before sending them back to their Islamic countries to deal with their own demons/countrymen.
No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs. Paris massacres can be prevented by keeping the city free of Muslims. Muslims both attract and participate in Jihadism.

As Europeans go there is no one more opposed to continued illegal immigration than me. However deporting citizens just for being Muslims seems highly unfair and unnecessary. Read my solutions at the top of the page. That's a better way to deal with things. Discriminating on religious grounds is something that belongs in the 18 th century not the 21st one.
Killing Muslims/Islamists only incites Muslims to retaliate and be recruited for radicalization. Muslim teachings and worldview are not compatible with the secular open societies they find themselves forced to tolerate. They have their own Sharia Laws they are obligated to follow. This is what is causing the clash of civilizations and growing resentment. Muslims cannot and will not assimilate into cultures different from theirs. That fact was played out in Paris.
We don't need Muslim blood on our hands....no more interfering in the Middle East, no more refugee sanctuaries for Muslims. We don't need their oil or religion.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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11/18/2015 5:23:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 5:13:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:00:59 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:50:44 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM, imabench wrote:
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......

It is ok for Muslims to kill Muslims. It is already happening in the Middle East. So rather than have Muslim blood on our hands killing jihadists or radicalized Muslims , train tbe Muslim refugees and migrants to defend themselves before sending them back to their Islamic countries to deal with their own demons/countrymen.
No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs. Paris massacres can be prevented by keeping the city free of Muslims. Muslims both attract and participate in Jihadism.

As Europeans go there is no one more opposed to continued illegal immigration than me. However deporting citizens just for being Muslims seems highly unfair and unnecessary. Read my solutions at the top of the page. That's a better way to deal with things. Discriminating on religious grounds is something that belongs in the 18 th century not the 21st one.
Killing Muslims/Islamists only incites Muslims to retaliate and be recruited for radicalization. Muslim teachings and worldview are not compatible with the secular open societies they find themselves forced to tolerate. They have their own Sharia Laws they are obligated to follow. This is what is causing the clash of civilizations and growing resentment. Muslims cannot and will not assimilate into cultures different from theirs. That fact was played out in Paris.
We don't need Muslim blood on our hands....no more interfering in the Middle East, no more refugee sanctuaries for Muslims. We don't need their oil or religion.

We certainly need their oil of that there is no doubt. In my view no religion is needed but I don't think it's up to me or anybody else to deport someone just for a difference of opinion. Most Muslims are law abiding citizens with no intention of commiting terrorist acts. The other thing is where would u send them? If they are a citizen in a European country then they are a national of that country and in most cases hold no other nationalities. I would deport all illegal immigrants back to their countries of origin but you can't justify doing that to someone with citizenship. I think the only way to stop the immigration crisis is to end the war. Isis is an evil group that should be eliminated by whatever means neccessary.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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11/18/2015 5:35:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 5:23:26 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:13:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:00:59 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:50:44 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM, imabench wrote:
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......

It is ok for Muslims to kill Muslims. It is already happening in the Middle East. So rather than have Muslim blood on our hands killing jihadists or radicalized Muslims , train tbe Muslim refugees and migrants to defend themselves before sending them back to their Islamic countries to deal with their own demons/countrymen.
No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs. Paris massacres can be prevented by keeping the city free of Muslims. Muslims both attract and participate in Jihadism.

As Europeans go there is no one more opposed to continued illegal immigration than me. However deporting citizens just for being Muslims seems highly unfair and unnecessary. Read my solutions at the top of the page. That's a better way to deal with things. Discriminating on religious grounds is something that belongs in the 18 th century not the 21st one.
Killing Muslims/Islamists only incites Muslims to retaliate and be recruited for radicalization. Muslim teachings and worldview are not compatible with the secular open societies they find themselves forced to tolerate. They have their own Sharia Laws they are obligated to follow. This is what is causing the clash of civilizations and growing resentment. Muslims cannot and will not assimilate into cultures different from theirs. That fact was played out in Paris.
We don't need Muslim blood on our hands....no more interfering in the Middle East, no more refugee sanctuaries for Muslims. We don't need their oil or religion.

We certainly need their oil of that there is no doubt. In my view no religion is needed but I don't think it's up to me or anybody else to deport someone just for a difference of opinion. Most Muslims are law abiding citizens with no intention of commiting terrorist acts. The other thing is where would u send them? If they are a citizen in a European country then they are a national of that country and in most cases hold no other nationalities. I would deport all illegal immigrants back to their countries of origin but you can't justify doing that to someone with citizenship. I think the only way to stop the immigration crisis is to end the war. Isis is an evil group that should be eliminated by whatever means neccessary.

Even 4th generation Muslims immigrants are becoming radicalized and joining Jihadism. They refuse to assimilate and may never accept the open society of their host country. Surely they would like to preserve their culture and religion. And the best way to do that is to be prepared to fight for their dreams and beliefs their own Muslim countries of origin.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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11/18/2015 5:51:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 5:35:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:23:26 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:13:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:00:59 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:50:44 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM, imabench wrote:
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......

It is ok for Muslims to kill Muslims. It is already happening in the Middle East. So rather than have Muslim blood on our hands killing jihadists or radicalized Muslims , train tbe Muslim refugees and migrants to defend themselves before sending them back to their Islamic countries to deal with their own demons/countrymen.
No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs. Paris massacres can be prevented by keeping the city free of Muslims. Muslims both attract and participate in Jihadism.

As Europeans go there is no one more opposed to continued illegal immigration than me. However deporting citizens just for being Muslims seems highly unfair and unnecessary. Read my solutions at the top of the page. That's a better way to deal with things. Discriminating on religious grounds is something that belongs in the 18 th century not the 21st one.
Killing Muslims/Islamists only incites Muslims to retaliate and be recruited for radicalization. Muslim teachings and worldview are not compatible with the secular open societies they find themselves forced to tolerate. They have their own Sharia Laws they are obligated to follow. This is what is causing the clash of civilizations and growing resentment. Muslims cannot and will not assimilate into cultures different from theirs. That fact was played out in Paris.
We don't need Muslim blood on our hands....no more interfering in the Middle East, no more refugee sanctuaries for Muslims. We don't need their oil or religion.

We certainly need their oil of that there is no doubt. In my view no religion is needed but I don't think it's up to me or anybody else to deport someone just for a difference of opinion. Most Muslims are law abiding citizens with no intention of commiting terrorist acts. The other thing is where would u send them? If they are a citizen in a European country then they are a national of that country and in most cases hold no other nationalities. I would deport all illegal immigrants back to their countries of origin but you can't justify doing that to someone with citizenship. I think the only way to stop the immigration crisis is to end the war. Isis is an evil group that should be eliminated by whatever means neccessary.

Even 4th generation Muslims immigrants are becoming radicalized and joining Jihadism. They refuse to assimilate and may never accept the open society of their host country. Surely they would like to preserve their culture and religion. And the best way to do that is to be prepared to fight for their dreams and beliefs their own Muslim countries of origin.

A couple of questions. Where would you send these fourth generation Muslims? How would you determine which country they need to go to? Also how is it fair to send a good law abiding citizen who has spent their life in a particular country somewhere else when a criminal who happens to call themself a Christian gets to stay? What if they are of Arabic origin but claim to be secular?

A separate point are you American? It could be argued as a 15th generation European immigrant you should along with 98% of other Americans be deported to a random European country as your beliefs are incompatible with native Americans?

Maybe someone could study my history and claim I'm a 20th generation Norwegian and deport me?

Hopefully you now see how the idea is flawed. In many ways I share your view that multiculturalism leads to violence and conflict. The way to deal with this is to control immigration and deport illegal immigrants. Random deportations based on race or religion are unethical, illogical and create more problems then they solve.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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11/18/2015 6:59:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 5:51:34 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:35:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:23:26 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:13:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:00:59 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:50:44 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM, imabench wrote:
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......

It is ok for Muslims to kill Muslims. It is already happening in the Middle East. So rather than have Muslim blood on our hands killing jihadists or radicalized Muslims , train tbe Muslim refugees and migrants to defend themselves before sending them back to their Islamic countries to deal with their own demons/countrymen.
No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs. Paris massacres can be prevented by keeping the city free of Muslims. Muslims both attract and participate in Jihadism.

As Europeans go there is no one more opposed to continued illegal immigration than me. However deporting citizens just for being Muslims seems highly unfair and unnecessary. Read my solutions at the top of the page. That's a better way to deal with things. Discriminating on religious grounds is something that belongs in the 18 th century not the 21st one.
Killing Muslims/Islamists only incites Muslims to retaliate and be recruited for radicalization. Muslim teachings and worldview are not compatible with the secular open societies they find themselves forced to tolerate. They have their own Sharia Laws they are obligated to follow. This is what is causing the clash of civilizations and growing resentment. Muslims cannot and will not assimilate into cultures different from theirs. That fact was played out in Paris.
We don't need Muslim blood on our hands....no more interfering in the Middle East, no more refugee sanctuaries for Muslims. We don't need their oil or religion.

We certainly need their oil of that there is no doubt. In my view no religion is needed but I don't think it's up to me or anybody else to deport someone just for a difference of opinion. Most Muslims are law abiding citizens with no intention of commiting terrorist acts. The other thing is where would u send them? If they are a citizen in a European country then they are a national of that country and in most cases hold no other nationalities. I would deport all illegal immigrants back to their countries of origin but you can't justify doing that to someone with citizenship. I think the only way to stop the immigration crisis is to end the war. Isis is an evil group that should be eliminated by whatever means neccessary.

Even 4th generation Muslims immigrants are becoming radicalized and joining Jihadism. They refuse to assimilate and may never accept the open society of their host country. Surely they would like to preserve their culture and religion. And the best way to do that is to be prepared to fight for their dreams and beliefs their own Muslim countries of origin.

A couple of questions. Where would you send these fourth generation Muslims? How would you determine which country they need to go to? Also how is it fair to send a good law abiding citizen who has spent their life in a particular country somewhere else when a criminal who happens to call themself a Christian gets to stay? What if they are of Arabic origin but claim to be secular?

A separate point are you American? It could be argued as a 15th generation European immigrant you should along with 98% of other Americans be deported to a random European country as your beliefs are incompatible with native Americans?

Maybe someone could study my history and claim I'm a 20th generation Norwegian and deport me?

Hopefully you now see how the idea is flawed. In many ways I share your view that multiculturalism leads to violence and conflict. The way to deal with this is to control immigration and deport illegal immigrants. Random deportations based on race or religion are unethical, illogical and create more problems then they solve.

You don't get it. This only effects Muslims of Muslim immigrants. If you assimilated and cast off your Muslim religion and don't identify with jihadists you are no longer in conflict with an open society.
All mosques will be shut down and those Europeans wanting to convert to Islam will be allowed to leave for a Muslim country and quarantined indefinitely upon their return.
Europe is capable of doing much worst like the holocaust for example. But sending Muslims back to their country where their prophet is respected should be a welcoming proposition.
Immigrants are not the problem. Muslim immigrants are. Those who assimilate are seen as apostates and are targeted by Jihadists, those who don't get radicalized. If they still insist they want to remain Muslims...there is a place for them....a Muslim country.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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11/18/2015 7:29:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 6:59:34 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:51:34 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:35:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:23:26 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:13:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:00:59 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:50:44 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM, imabench wrote:
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......

It is ok for Muslims to kill Muslims. It is already happening in the Middle East. So rather than have Muslim blood on our hands killing jihadists or radicalized Muslims , train tbe Muslim refugees and migrants to defend themselves before sending them back to their Islamic countries to deal with their own demons/countrymen.
No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs. Paris massacres can be prevented by keeping the city free of Muslims. Muslims both attract and participate in Jihadism.

As Europeans go there is no one more opposed to continued illegal immigration than me. However deporting citizens just for being Muslims seems highly unfair and unnecessary. Read my solutions at the top of the page. That's a better way to deal with things. Discriminating on religious grounds is something that belongs in the 18 th century not the 21st one.
Killing Muslims/Islamists only incites Muslims to retaliate and be recruited for radicalization. Muslim teachings and worldview are not compatible with the secular open societies they find themselves forced to tolerate. They have their own Sharia Laws they are obligated to follow. This is what is causing the clash of civilizations and growing resentment. Muslims cannot and will not assimilate into cultures different from theirs. That fact was played out in Paris.
We don't need Muslim blood on our hands....no more interfering in the Middle East, no more refugee sanctuaries for Muslims. We don't need their oil or religion.

We certainly need their oil of that there is no doubt. In my view no religion is needed but I don't think it's up to me or anybody else to deport someone just for a difference of opinion. Most Muslims are law abiding citizens with no intention of commiting terrorist acts. The other thing is where would u send them? If they are a citizen in a European country then they are a national of that country and in most cases hold no other nationalities. I would deport all illegal immigrants back to their countries of origin but you can't justify doing that to someone with citizenship. I think the only way to stop the immigration crisis is to end the war. Isis is an evil group that should be eliminated by whatever means neccessary.

Even 4th generation Muslims immigrants are becoming radicalized and joining Jihadism. They refuse to assimilate and may never accept the open society of their host country. Surely they would like to preserve their culture and religion. And the best way to do that is to be prepared to fight for their dreams and beliefs their own Muslim countries of origin.

A couple of questions. Where would you send these fourth generation Muslims? How would you determine which country they need to go to? Also how is it fair to send a good law abiding citizen who has spent their life in a particular country somewhere else when a criminal who happens to call themself a Christian gets to stay? What if they are of Arabic origin but claim to be secular?

A separate point are you American? It could be argued as a 15th generation European immigrant you should along with 98% of other Americans be deported to a random European country as your beliefs are incompatible with native Americans?

Maybe someone could study my history and claim I'm a 20th generation Norwegian and deport me?

Hopefully you now see how the idea is flawed. In many ways I share your view that multiculturalism leads to violence and conflict. The way to deal with this is to control immigration and deport illegal immigrants. Random deportations based on race or religion are unethical, illogical and create more problems then they solve.

You don't get it. This only effects Muslims of Muslim immigrants. If you assimilated and cast off your Muslim religion and don't identify with jihadists you are no longer in conflict with an open society.
All mosques will be shut down and those Europeans wanting to convert to Islam will be allowed to leave for a Muslim country and quarantined indefinitely upon their return.
Europe is capable of doing much worst like the holocaust for example. But sending Muslims back to their country where their prophet is respected should be a welcoming proposition.
Immigrants are not the problem. Muslim immigrants are. Those who assimilate are seen as apostates and are targeted by Jihadists, those who don't get radicalized. If they still insist they want to remain Muslims...there is a place for them....a Muslim country.

The thing is the majority of Muslims are good people. Yes its true they have different values to the west but evicting them from Europe is unfair. Imagine a family living happily in the UK contributing to society, paying taxes being told they have to be sent to Syria because their grandparents were born there. They don't speak Arabic and have lived In the uk all of their lives. Their children go to school in the UK. Oh wait they are Muslims so you want to deport them. Do you like seeing Christians persecuted in the middle east, Africa or India? By persececuting Muslims you are acting in the same way as Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin or Isis themselves. You are not looking at a person as an individual but tarnishing them with the same brush just because of their religion and persecuting them on religious grounds. This is the trouble with religion. It leads to conflict, violence, discrimination, persecution and inequality. You claim your religion has the moral high ground but advocate the persecution of individuals on the basis of their religion.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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11/18/2015 7:38:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 7:29:02 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 6:59:34 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:51:34 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:35:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:23:26 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:13:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:00:59 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:50:44 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM, imabench wrote:
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......

It is ok for Muslims to kill Muslims. It is already happening in the Middle East. So rather than have Muslim blood on our hands killing jihadists or radicalized Muslims , train tbe Muslim refugees and migrants to defend themselves before sending them back to their Islamic countries to deal with their own demons/countrymen.
No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs. Paris massacres can be prevented by keeping the city free of Muslims. Muslims both attract and participate in Jihadism.

As Europeans go there is no one more opposed to continued illegal immigration than me. However deporting citizens just for being Muslims seems highly unfair and unnecessary. Read my solutions at the top of the page. That's a better way to deal with things. Discriminating on religious grounds is something that belongs in the 18 th century not the 21st one.
Killing Muslims/Islamists only incites Muslims to retaliate and be recruited for radicalization. Muslim teachings and worldview are not compatible with the secular open societies they find themselves forced to tolerate. They have their own Sharia Laws they are obligated to follow. This is what is causing the clash of civilizations and growing resentment. Muslims cannot and will not assimilate into cultures different from theirs. That fact was played out in Paris.
We don't need Muslim blood on our hands....no more interfering in the Middle East, no more refugee sanctuaries for Muslims. We don't need their oil or religion.

We certainly need their oil of that there is no doubt. In my view no religion is needed but I don't think it's up to me or anybody else to deport someone just for a difference of opinion. Most Muslims are law abiding citizens with no intention of commiting terrorist acts. The other thing is where would u send them? If they are a citizen in a European country then they are a national of that country and in most cases hold no other nationalities. I would deport all illegal immigrants back to their countries of origin but you can't justify doing that to someone with citizenship. I think the only way to stop the immigration crisis is to end the war. Isis is an evil group that should be eliminated by whatever means neccessary.

Even 4th generation Muslims immigrants are becoming radicalized and joining Jihadism. They refuse to assimilate and may never accept the open society of their host country. Surely they would like to preserve their culture and religion. And the best way to do that is to be prepared to fight for their dreams and beliefs their own Muslim countries of origin.

A couple of questions. Where would you send these fourth generation Muslims? How would you determine which country they need to go to? Also how is it fair to send a good law abiding citizen who has spent their life in a particular country somewhere else when a criminal who happens to call themself a Christian gets to stay? What if they are of Arabic origin but claim to be secular?

A separate point are you American? It could be argued as a 15th generation European immigrant you should along with 98% of other Americans be deported to a random European country as your beliefs are incompatible with native Americans?

Maybe someone could study my history and claim I'm a 20th generation Norwegian and deport me?

Hopefully you now see how the idea is flawed. In many ways I share your view that multiculturalism leads to violence and conflict. The way to deal with this is to control immigration and deport illegal immigrants. Random deportations based on race or religion are unethical, illogical and create more problems then they solve.

You don't get it. This only effects Muslims of Muslim immigrants. If you assimilated and cast off your Muslim religion and don't identify with jihadists you are no longer in conflict with an open society.
All mosques will be shut down and those Europeans wanting to convert to Islam will be allowed to leave for a Muslim country and quarantined indefinitely upon their return.
Europe is capable of doing much worst like the holocaust for example. But sending Muslims back to their country where their prophet is respected should be a welcoming proposition.
Immigrants are not the problem. Muslim immigrants are. Those who assimilate are seen as apostates and are targeted by Jihadists, those who don't get radicalized. If they still insist they want to remain Muslims...there is a place for them....a Muslim country.

The thing is the majority of Muslims are good people. Yes its true they have different values to the west but evicting them from Europe is unfair. Imagine a family living happily in the UK contributing to society, paying taxes being told they have to be sent to Syria because their grandparents were born there. They don't speak Arabic and have lived In the uk all of their lives. Their children go to school in the UK. Oh wait they are Muslims so you want to deport them. Do you like seeing Christians persecuted in the middle east, Africa or India? By persececuting Muslims you are acting in the same way as Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin or Isis themselves. You are not looking at a person as an individual but tarnishing them with the same brush just because of their religion and persecuting them on religious grounds. This is the trouble with religion. It leads to conflict, violence, discrimination, persecution and inequality. You claim your religion has the moral high ground but advocate the persecution of individuals on the basis of their religion.

I offered a better solution than killing Muslims or their leaders or their jihadists cousins or waging a war for their hearts and minds . I suggested sending them home peacefully.
I know many good Muslims. But I know many more good Christians who don't kill over a cartoon. No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs.
Mirza
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11/18/2015 10:02:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 5:51:34 PM, beng100 wrote:
A separate point are you American? It could be argued as a 15th generation European immigrant you should along with 98% of other Americans be deported to a random European country as your beliefs are incompatible with native Americans?
Imagine if that happened. I'd hope Europe sent the Americans somewhere else. There's no way Europe would be more secure for a long while with such a large presence of Americans.
Emilrose
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11/19/2015 12:05:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 10:02:31 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:51:34 PM, beng100 wrote:
A separate point are you American? It could be argued as a 15th generation European immigrant you should along with 98% of other Americans be deported to a random European country as your beliefs are incompatible with native Americans?
Imagine if that happened. I'd hope Europe sent the Americans somewhere else. There's no way Europe would be more secure for a long while with such a large presence of Americans.

+1

Besides they're so mixed that who knows what their original homeland(s) were...
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Emilrose
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11/19/2015 12:06:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I've just realized the irony of that statement ;o
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Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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11/19/2015 12:25:58 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 1:17:29 PM, Emilrose wrote:
My own solutions would be:

-Identifying with the societal factors involved--I.E, if I was a leader of a country such as France or Belgium, the proper integration of Muslims would be one of the key priorities in *avoiding* further radicalisation of individuals. A large number of people that commit terrorist attacks are not actually practicing Muslims who have led religious lives, but drug/drink users and petty criminals who are disengaged from society.

-Improve security measures. Once again, this would be one of the most important things to do. The Belgium authorities knew about some of these men and the *fact* that they were a potential danger. More precautions need to be put in place and intelligence within and between European countries should be increased and shared more effectively, in the aftermath of the Paris attacks.

-Stop radical hate preachers. This would likely be the most difficult step, because of the matter of 'free speech' and 'human rights'. But I would seriously try to make a case for not only imprisoning these individuals but completely isolating them. Sending them back to their native countries would be an option, but the likelihood is that they'd just reengage with young Muslims and thus the radicalisation would continue. All of the men responsible for the Paris attacks were influenced by and in communication with Muslim hate preachers, as were the two people responsible for murdering a British solider on the streets of London in 2013.

-Pull out from the Middle East. Personally, I would disengage entirely from the Middle East and cease all military involvement--as that's exactly what's created this issue in the first place. I would stop advocating for the removal of Assad (as France has done), and distance myself slightly away from the U.S.

-Encourage more openness with Muslim families and put more communication options in place. In my opinion, a significant factor in *why* young Muslims are being radicalized is because of there is a lack of honest and open discussion between Muslim families. *IF* they are suspicious of anybody, they should be encouraged to report them to the authorities. And if they are concerned about family members or friends, they should be able to communicate it with them. An example would be the two teenage British girls that travelled to Syria last year, they were basically being radicalized online *without* any questions from their immediate family--and thus were able to fly to Syria, amazingly without being stopped.

-Lastly, I would strengthen border control and refuse to take in any migrants unless they have travelled legally and have had full security checks. Their passports would have to be confirmed as authentic, because a significant number of Syrians are receiving *fake* passports from human traffickers--which is another thing I'd address. There are people within the Middle East that are making large sums of profit as a result of trafficking people and sending them into Europe on rubber boats.

- Well, Emil, I've never thought I'd see the day, but I completely agree with you here.
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Emilrose
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11/19/2015 12:39:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 12:25:58 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/18/2015 1:17:29 PM, Emilrose wrote:
My own solutions would be:

-Identifying with the societal factors involved--I.E, if I was a leader of a country such as France or Belgium, the proper integration of Muslims would be one of the key priorities in *avoiding* further radicalisation of individuals. A large number of people that commit terrorist attacks are not actually practicing Muslims who have led religious lives, but drug/drink users and petty criminals who are disengaged from society.

-Improve security measures. Once again, this would be one of the most important things to do. The Belgium authorities knew about some of these men and the *fact* that they were a potential danger. More precautions need to be put in place and intelligence within and between European countries should be increased and shared more effectively, in the aftermath of the Paris attacks.

-Stop radical hate preachers. This would likely be the most difficult step, because of the matter of 'free speech' and 'human rights'. But I would seriously try to make a case for not only imprisoning these individuals but completely isolating them. Sending them back to their native countries would be an option, but the likelihood is that they'd just reengage with young Muslims and thus the radicalisation would continue. All of the men responsible for the Paris attacks were influenced by and in communication with Muslim hate preachers, as were the two people responsible for murdering a British solider on the streets of London in 2013.

-Pull out from the Middle East. Personally, I would disengage entirely from the Middle East and cease all military involvement--as that's exactly what's created this issue in the first place. I would stop advocating for the removal of Assad (as France has done), and distance myself slightly away from the U.S.

-Encourage more openness with Muslim families and put more communication options in place. In my opinion, a significant factor in *why* young Muslims are being radicalized is because of there is a lack of honest and open discussion between Muslim families. *IF* they are suspicious of anybody, they should be encouraged to report them to the authorities. And if they are concerned about family members or friends, they should be able to communicate it with them. An example would be the two teenage British girls that travelled to Syria last year, they were basically being radicalized online *without* any questions from their immediate family--and thus were able to fly to Syria, amazingly without being stopped.

-Lastly, I would strengthen border control and refuse to take in any migrants unless they have travelled legally and have had full security checks. Their passports would have to be confirmed as authentic, because a significant number of Syrians are receiving *fake* passports from human traffickers--which is another thing I'd address. There are people within the Middle East that are making large sums of profit as a result of trafficking people and sending them into Europe on rubber boats.

- Well, Emil, I've never thought I'd see the day, but I completely agree with you here.

Wow, I never thought I'd really see that day either ;) But I'm glad you do...
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BlackFlags
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11/19/2015 12:41:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Europe isn't threatened tbh. If you want to fix the Middle East, that can really only be done through the use of force and a restructuring of geopolitical borders.
BlackFlags
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11/19/2015 12:47:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Actually Europe is threatened, but not by radical Islamic terrorists. Those are distractions if anything. What you really need to watch out for is the rising power of Iran and Yemen, shiite dominated nations, over the GCC countries which have allied themselves with the West.

Right now Saudi Arabia tried to intervene in Yemen, and they ended up actually losing territory in their own country as a result, since the Yemeni Army didn't just sit back and let the RSA conduct airstrikes.
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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11/19/2015 1:07:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 10:02:31 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:51:34 PM, beng100 wrote:
A separate point are you American? It could be argued as a 15th generation European immigrant you should along with 98% of other Americans be deported to a random European country as your beliefs are incompatible with native Americans?
Imagine if that happened. I'd hope Europe sent the Americans somewhere else. There's no way Europe would be more secure for a long while with such a large presence of Americans.

Yes obviously there is no room for them here. It shows how illogical harikishes proposal is. Where does he think he will send millions of people? Remove them from happy lives and dump them in a foreign country seems to be his idea. It's not as If there's ready made homes for them to walk into. Its stupid to discuss the reasons people live where they do colonialism, migration, slavery etc. When someone is a citizen of a country there is no way they should be deported unless wanted by another country for questioning on a crime.
beng100
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11/19/2015 1:14:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 7:38:01 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 7:29:02 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 6:59:34 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:51:34 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:35:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:23:26 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:13:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:00:59 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:50:44 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM, imabench wrote:
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......

It is ok for Muslims to kill Muslims. It is already happening in the Middle East. So rather than have Muslim blood on our hands killing jihadists or radicalized Muslims , train tbe Muslim refugees and migrants to defend themselves before sending them back to their Islamic countries to deal with their own demons/countrymen.
No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs. Paris massacres can be prevented by keeping the city free of Muslims. Muslims both attract and participate in Jihadism.

As Europeans go there is no one more opposed to continued illegal immigration than me. However deporting citizens just for being Muslims seems highly unfair and unnecessary. Read my solutions at the top of the page. That's a better way to deal with things. Discriminating on religious grounds is something that belongs in the 18 th century not the 21st one.
Killing Muslims/Islamists only incites Muslims to retaliate and be recruited for radicalization. Muslim teachings and worldview are not compatible with the secular open societies they find themselves forced to tolerate. They have their own Sharia Laws they are obligated to follow. This is what is causing the clash of civilizations and growing resentment. Muslims cannot and will not assimilate into cultures different from theirs. That fact was played out in Paris.
We don't need Muslim blood on our hands....no more interfering in the Middle East, no more refugee sanctuaries for Muslims. We don't need their oil or religion.

We certainly need their oil of that there is no doubt. In my view no religion is needed but I don't think it's up to me or anybody else to deport someone just for a difference of opinion. Most Muslims are law abiding citizens with no intention of commiting terrorist acts. The other thing is where would u send them? If they are a citizen in a European country then they are a national of that country and in most cases hold no other nationalities. I would deport all illegal immigrants back to their countries of origin but you can't justify doing that to someone with citizenship. I think the only way to stop the immigration crisis is to end the war. Isis is an evil group that should be eliminated by whatever means neccessary.

Even 4th generation Muslims immigrants are becoming radicalized and joining Jihadism. They refuse to assimilate and may never accept the open society of their host country. Surely they would like to preserve their culture and religion. And the best way to do that is to be prepared to fight for their dreams and beliefs their own Muslim countries of origin.

A couple of questions. Where would you send these fourth generation Muslims? How would you determine which country they need to go to? Also how is it fair to send a good law abiding citizen who has spent their life in a particular country somewhere else when a criminal who happens to call themself a Christian gets to stay? What if they are of Arabic origin but claim to be secular?

A separate point are you American? It could be argued as a 15th generation European immigrant you should along with 98% of other Americans be deported to a random European country as your beliefs are incompatible with native Americans?

Maybe someone could study my history and claim I'm a 20th generation Norwegian and deport me?

Hopefully you now see how the idea is flawed. In many ways I share your view that multiculturalism leads to violence and conflict. The way to deal with this is to control immigration and deport illegal immigrants. Random deportations based on race or religion are unethical, illogical and create more problems then they solve.

You don't get it. This only effects Muslims of Muslim immigrants. If you assimilated and cast off your Muslim religion and don't identify with jihadists you are no longer in conflict with an open society.
All mosques will be shut down and those Europeans wanting to convert to Islam will be allowed to leave for a Muslim country and quarantined indefinitely upon their return.
Europe is capable of doing much worst like the holocaust for example. But sending Muslims back to their country where their prophet is respected should be a welcoming proposition.
Immigrants are not the problem. Muslim immigrants are. Those who assimilate are seen as apostates and are targeted by Jihadists, those who don't get radicalized. If they still insist they want to remain Muslims...there is a place for them....a Muslim country.

The thing is the majority of Muslims are good people. Yes its true they have different values to the west but evicting them from Europe is unfair. Imagine a family living happily in the UK contributing to society, paying taxes being told they have to be sent to Syria because their grandparents were born there. They don't speak Arabic and have lived In the uk all of their lives. Their children go to school in the UK. Oh wait they are Muslims so you want to deport them. Do you like seeing Christians persecuted in the middle east, Africa or India? By persececuting Muslims you are acting in the same way as Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin or Isis themselves. You are not looking at a person as an individual but tarnishing them with the same brush just because of their religion and persecuting them on religious grounds. This is the trouble with religion. It leads to conflict, violence, discrimination, persecution and inequality. You claim your religion has the moral high ground but advocate the persecution of individuals on the basis of their religion.

I offered a better solution than killing Muslims or their leaders or their jihadists cousins or waging a war for their hearts and minds . I suggested sending them home peacefully.
I know many good Muslims. But I know many more good Christians who don't kill over a cartoon. No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs.

You are proposing an illogical inhumane deportation of people with a legal right to be in a country on the basis of a difference of opinion on religion. In my view this is probably because your religious beliefs are so extreme that you are not able to tolerate someone with a different opinion. Because they disagree with you just kick them out? Not fair. No one should die in disputes over religion. Would you like to see all Christians in Egypt, India or afghanistan deported because of religion? I support strong immigration controls and think multiculturalism is generally a negative thing for society but you have to try and tolerate people. Intollerence leads to violence and wars.
Mirza
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11/19/2015 1:36:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 1:07:16 AM, beng100 wrote:
Yes obviously there is no room for them here.
It is not an issue concerning logistics, beng. They are, as a group, a threat to the stability and peace of our societies. Their mentality would forever scar our European societies, which would be unacceptable.

Even if they were to massively migrate periodically, I'd oppose it. Pseudo-whites or other peoples coming to Europe in masses is unacceptable.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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11/19/2015 2:09:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 1:14:32 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 7:38:01 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 7:29:02 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 6:59:34 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:51:34 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:35:41 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:23:26 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:13:13 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:00:59 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:50:44 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 11/18/2015 4:26:53 PM, imabench wrote:
"All Muslims should be trained to defend themselves are returned to their Muslim countries to deal with their own demons"

We're looking for ideas to make things better, not make things horrendously, catastrophically worse.......

It is ok for Muslims to kill Muslims. It is already happening in the Middle East. So rather than have Muslim blood on our hands killing jihadists or radicalized Muslims , train tbe Muslim refugees and migrants to defend themselves before sending them back to their Islamic countries to deal with their own demons/countrymen.
No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs. Paris massacres can be prevented by keeping the city free of Muslims. Muslims both attract and participate in Jihadism.

As Europeans go there is no one more opposed to continued illegal immigration than me. However deporting citizens just for being Muslims seems highly unfair and unnecessary. Read my solutions at the top of the page. That's a better way to deal with things. Discriminating on religious grounds is something that belongs in the 18 th century not the 21st one.
Killing Muslims/Islamists only incites Muslims to retaliate and be recruited for radicalization. Muslim teachings and worldview are not compatible with the secular open societies they find themselves forced to tolerate. They have their own Sharia Laws they are obligated to follow. This is what is causing the clash of civilizations and growing resentment. Muslims cannot and will not assimilate into cultures different from theirs. That fact was played out in Paris.
We don't need Muslim blood on our hands....no more interfering in the Middle East, no more refugee sanctuaries for Muslims. We don't need their oil or religion.

We certainly need their oil of that there is no doubt. In my view no religion is needed but I don't think it's up to me or anybody else to deport someone just for a difference of opinion. Most Muslims are law abiding citizens with no intention of commiting terrorist acts. The other thing is where would u send them? If they are a citizen in a European country then they are a national of that country and in most cases hold no other nationalities. I would deport all illegal immigrants back to their countries of origin but you can't justify doing that to someone with citizenship. I think the only way to stop the immigration crisis is to end the war. Isis is an evil group that should be eliminated by whatever means neccessary.

Even 4th generation Muslims immigrants are becoming radicalized and joining Jihadism. They refuse to assimilate and may never accept the open society of their host country. Surely they would like to preserve their culture and religion. And the best way to do that is to be prepared to fight for their dreams and beliefs their own Muslim countries of origin.

A couple of questions. Where would you send these fourth generation Muslims? How would you determine which country they need to go to? Also how is it fair to send a good law abiding citizen who has spent their life in a particular country somewhere else when a criminal who happens to call themself a Christian gets to stay? What if they are of Arabic origin but claim to be secular?

A separate point are you American? It could be argued as a 15th generation European immigrant you should along with 98% of other Americans be deported to a random European country as your beliefs are incompatible with native Americans?

Maybe someone could study my history and claim I'm a 20th generation Norwegian and deport me?

Hopefully you now see how the idea is flawed. In many ways I share your view that multiculturalism leads to violence and conflict. The way to deal with this is to control immigration and deport illegal immigrants. Random deportations based on race or religion are unethical, illogical and create more problems then they solve.

You don't get it. This only effects Muslims of Muslim immigrants. If you assimilated and cast off your Muslim religion and don't identify with jihadists you are no longer in conflict with an open society.
All mosques will be shut down and those Europeans wanting to convert to Islam will be allowed to leave for a Muslim country and quarantined indefinitely upon their return.
Europe is capable of doing much worst like the holocaust for example. But sending Muslims back to their country where their prophet is respected should be a welcoming proposition.
Immigrants are not the problem. Muslim immigrants are. Those who assimilate are seen as apostates and are targeted by Jihadists, those who don't get radicalized. If they still insist they want to remain Muslims...there is a place for them....a Muslim country.

The thing is the majority of Muslims are good people. Yes its true they have different values to the west but evicting them from Europe is unfair. Imagine a family living happily in the UK contributing to society, paying taxes being told they have to be sent to Syria because their grandparents were born there. They don't speak Arabic and have lived In the uk all of their lives. Their children go to school in the UK. Oh wait they are Muslims so you want to deport them. Do you like seeing Christians persecuted in the middle east, Africa or India? By persececuting Muslims you are acting in the same way as Mao Zedong, Josef Stalin or Isis themselves. You are not looking at a person as an individual but tarnishing them with the same brush just because of their religion and persecuting them on religious grounds. This is the trouble with religion. It leads to conflict, violence, discrimination, persecution and inequality. You claim your religion has the moral high ground but advocate the persecution of individuals on the basis of their religion.

I offered a better solution than killing Muslims or their leaders or their jihadists cousins or waging a war for their hearts and minds . I suggested sending them home peacefully.
I know many good Muslims. But I know many more good Christians who don't kill over a cartoon. No Christian should have to die for Muslim beliefs.

You are proposing an illogical inhumane deportation of people with a legal right to be in a country on the basis of a difference of opinion on religion. In my view this is probably because your religious beliefs are so extreme that you are not able to tolerate someone with a different opinion. Because they disagree with you just kick them out? Not fair. No one should die in disputes over religion. Would you like to see all Christians in Egypt, India or afghanistan deported because of religion? I support strong immigration controls and think multiculturalism is generally a negative thing for society but you have to try and tolerate people. Intollerence leads to violence and wars.

You still don't get it. Christisns do not have a jihadists agenda. Christians are not radicalized to attack innocent civilians. Paris is the turning point.
beng100
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11/19/2015 2:11:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 1:36:28 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/19/2015 1:07:16 AM, beng100 wrote:
Yes obviously there is no room for them here.
It is not an issue concerning logistics, beng. They are, as a group, a threat to the stability and peace of our societies. Their mentality would forever scar our European societies, which would be unacceptable.

Even if they were to massively migrate periodically, I'd oppose it. Pseudo-whites or other peoples coming to Europe in masses is unacceptable.

Yes a huge group of people arriving at once would cause a cultural conflict with the native populations. It would just be logistical chaos to fit them all here as well. Therefore in my view its best we forget how we came to live where we do, whether it's fair or not and look to live peacefully and cooperatively while generally avoiding mass immigration of people, maintaining existing cultures.
beng100
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11/19/2015 2:31:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 2:09:25 PM, Harikrish

The reality is though most Muslims do not have a jihadi agenda I can see some logic in deporting jihadis but personally would prefer either counciling and treatment for their mental health problem or the death penalty depending on the type of crimes they have commited and the prospects of reforming their character. Most Muslims oppose jihad. Your policy is similar to Hitler's prosecution of the Jews. It's not looking at individuals but tarnishing them under the same brush as being evil. The reality I think is that you are a Christian supremacist who thinks that all people who have a different opinion to you have no right to live in your country. It's in my view not that different to Muslim extremists actions what you are proposing really. Examples of Christian extremism do exist. The northern Ireland conflict, the Balkan conflict, the ku Klux Klan for example. There are also many examples throughout history of Christian extremism. For example the conquest of America and forced conversion of its people to Christianity or face enslavement. Also in the UK the conflicts between Catholics and protestants has led to numerous acts of war, terrorism and religiously motivated imprisonment, torture and execution. In the medieval period citizens were often given the death penalty for not following the state religion. I think the western world has come along way from those barbaric persecutions and no logical person would want a return of those policies. Only extremist religious fundamentalists.
Harikrish
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11/19/2015 2:45:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 1:07:16 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 10:02:31 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/18/2015 5:51:34 PM, beng100 wrote:
A separate point are you American? It could be argued as a 15th generation European immigrant you should along with 98% of other Americans be deported to a random European country as your beliefs are incompatible with native Americans?
Imagine if that happened. I'd hope Europe sent the Americans somewhere else. There's no way Europe would be more secure for a long while with such a large presence of Americans.

Yes obviously there is no room for them here. It shows how illogical harikishes proposal is. Where does he think he will send millions of people? Remove them from happy lives and dump them in a foreign country seems to be his idea. It's not as If there's ready made homes for them to walk into. Its stupid to discuss the reasons people live where they do colonialism, migration, slavery etc. When someone is a citizen of a country there is no way they should be deported unless wanted by another country for questioning on a crime.

If they cannot swear allegiance to a country that accepted them as citizens, they have forfeited that right. Muslims will not assimilate or accept the host countries values or tolerate an open society. They can easily be radicalized even after several generations of citizendary.
Europe is not secure after Paris. Now you know why and what needs to be done to secure Europe. Send the Muslims peacefully back to their Muslim countries after teaching them to defend against their radicalized Islamic brothers they will be reunited with.
Harikrish
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11/19/2015 2:55:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 2:31:49 PM, beng100 wrote:
At 11/19/2015 2:09:25 PM, Harikrish

The reality is though most Muslims do not have a jihadi agenda I can see some logic in deporting jihadis but personally would prefer either counciling and treatment for their mental health problem or the death penalty depending on the type of crimes they have commited and the prospects of reforming their character. Most Muslims oppose jihad. Your policy is similar to Hitler's prosecution of the Jews. It's not looking at individuals but tarnishing them under the same brush as being evil. The reality I think is that you are a Christian supremacist who thinks that all people who have a different opinion to you have no right to live in your country. It's in my view not that different to Muslim extremists actions what you are proposing really. Examples of Christian extremism do exist. The northern Ireland conflict, the Balkan conflict, the ku Klux Klan for example. There are also many examples throughout history of Christian extremism. For example the conquest of America and forced conversion of its people to Christianity or face enslavement. Also in the UK the conflicts between Catholics and protestants has led to numerous acts of war, terrorism and religiously motivated imprisonment, torture and execution. In the medieval period citizens were often given the death penalty for not following the state religion. I think the western world has come along way from those barbaric persecutions and no logical person would want a return of those policies. Only extremist religious fundamentalists.

Ask yourself the single most important question about Hitlers actions. "Are the Jews happier and feel safer in their homeland, Israel?" Most Jews will reply a resounding "yes".
The Arabs own most of the land in the Middle East. Sending the Muslims back to a Muslims country which is 600 times the size of Israel is not only more humane, it is the right place for Muslims to be.