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Women Heads of State in Saudi Arabia, Iran?

WorldSkeptic
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11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,674
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11/19/2015 2:25:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

B-buh buh but, MOOSE LIMBS HATE WOMEN!!1111!!!!11!!!1! Look at these poor, oppressed moeslem women FORCED to wear the hee-JAB thanks to their abusive husbands!1111

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com...
"Change your sig."
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WorldSkeptic
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11/19/2015 2:42:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Ok, I think I catch the irony, seeing that you are a Muslim and you wrote with the grammar of a three year old. I am not intolerant in that manner, sir, and I did not say anything that would make me look like one. I simply said that Saudi Arabia and Iran have abusive laws that oppress women a lot. The Quran also sanctions these actions (like the hijab in Chapter 24:3 of the Quran), but that is not the point at the moment. I had an honest question, and I admitted I could be wrong, so if you are coming here to cry about criticisms of Islam, you're in the wrong forum post.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,674
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11/19/2015 2:44:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 2:42:41 AM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
Ok, I think I catch the irony, seeing that you are a Muslim and you wrote with the grammar of a three year old. I am not intolerant in that manner, sir, and I did not say anything that would make me look like one. I simply said that Saudi Arabia and Iran have abusive laws that oppress women a lot. The Quran also sanctions these actions (like the hijab in Chapter 24:3 of the Quran), but that is not the point at the moment. I had an honest question, and I admitted I could be wrong, so if you are coming here to cry about criticisms of Islam, you're in the wrong forum post.

It was sarcasm.
"Change your sig."
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WorldSkeptic
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11/19/2015 2:45:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It was me saying, if you having something useful to say regarding the topic at hand, good, if not, please leave.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/19/2015 2:50:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 2:25:53 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

B-buh buh but, MOOSE LIMBS HATE WOMEN!!1111!!!!11!!!1! Look at these poor, oppressed moeslem women FORCED to wear the hee-JAB thanks to their abusive husbands!1111

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com...

Are you really dismissing this? I mean really! I do expect better from you.
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,674
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11/19/2015 2:50:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 2:45:46 AM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
It was me saying, if you having something useful to say regarding the topic at hand, good, if not, please leave.

I already read the post and what not. It was just sarcasm.
"Change your sig."
~YYW
UtherPenguin
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11/19/2015 2:50:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 2:50:07 AM, TBR wrote:
At 11/19/2015 2:25:53 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

B-buh buh but, MOOSE LIMBS HATE WOMEN!!1111!!!!11!!!1! Look at these poor, oppressed moeslem women FORCED to wear the hee-JAB thanks to their abusive husbands!1111

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com...

Are you really dismissing this? I mean really! I do expect better from you.

I was just being sarcastic.
"Change your sig."
~YYW
TBR
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11/19/2015 2:53:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 2:50:39 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 11/19/2015 2:50:07 AM, TBR wrote:
At 11/19/2015 2:25:53 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

B-buh buh but, MOOSE LIMBS HATE WOMEN!!1111!!!!11!!!1! Look at these poor, oppressed moeslem women FORCED to wear the hee-JAB thanks to their abusive husbands!1111

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com...

Are you really dismissing this? I mean really! I do expect better from you.

I was just being sarcastic.

OK... I think. You are not disagreeing that misogyny is higher in Islamic countries, right?
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,674
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11/19/2015 2:57:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 2:53:07 AM, TBR wrote:
At 11/19/2015 2:50:39 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 11/19/2015 2:50:07 AM, TBR wrote:
At 11/19/2015 2:25:53 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

B-buh buh but, MOOSE LIMBS HATE WOMEN!!1111!!!!11!!!1! Look at these poor, oppressed moeslem women FORCED to wear the hee-JAB thanks to their abusive husbands!1111

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com...

Are you really dismissing this? I mean really! I do expect better from you.

I was just being sarcastic.

OK... I think. You are not disagreeing that misogyny is higher in Islamic countries, right?

Agreed. What I was dismissing was the exaggerated perception of misogyny in the Muslims world, not the existence of it.
"Change your sig."
~YYW
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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11/19/2015 2:59:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
"Islam does not promote violence or peace. Islam is just a religion. Just like every religion in the world, it depends on what you bring to it.". Where is he getting this sh!t? It's no more accurate than saying "Atlas Shrugged does not promote capitalism. Atlas Shrugged is just a book. Atlas Shrugged can be read as a communist manifesto by someone of a communist persuasion."

I can respect Muslims who try to give a serious answer to this question, even if I disagree with their conclusion, but Reza is just a disgraceful moron/and or liar.
TBR
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11/19/2015 3:02:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 2:59:29 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
"Islam does not promote violence or peace. Islam is just a religion. Just like every religion in the world, it depends on what you bring to it.". Where is he getting this sh!t? It's no more accurate than saying "Atlas Shrugged does not promote capitalism. Atlas Shrugged is just a book. Atlas Shrugged can be read as a communist manifesto by someone of a communist persuasion."

I can respect Muslims who try to give a serious answer to this question, even if I disagree with their conclusion, but Reza is just a disgraceful moron/and or liar.

That is a good way to say it.
Garbanza
Posts: 1,997
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11/19/2015 3:04:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

It's true, I think. Currently, Bangladesh has a woman leader, and in the past Turkey, Indonesia, and Pakistan have had women leaders. There are probably others.
WorldSkeptic
Posts: 32
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11/19/2015 3:07:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Good, I thought he meant Saudi Arabia and Iran, though. I agree with the others here, the argument would stand if the Quran was NEUTRAL, but it is not solid if the book sanctions and orders certain acts to be committed. These acts, of course, include the murder and torture of other people. Indeed, interpretations and preferences of a religion differ, but the religion itself can have more bad aspects than good aspects, and so forth.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens
WorldSkeptic
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11/19/2015 3:10:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Thank you Garbanza, for answering the question after more than 7 posts talking about other stuff.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens
withywindle
Posts: 33
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11/19/2015 7:22:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

Yes, that is true. The first democratically elected woman head of state was also muslim.

That is not to say that Saudi arabia and Iran do not have horrendously repressive policies on women.
Bennett91
Posts: 4,194
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11/19/2015 7:28:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

This should clear some things up for you: http://www.patheos.com...
Yassine
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11/20/2015 4:42:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 7:28:28 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

This should clear some things up for you: http://www.patheos.com...

- That sounded more like 'here is some propaganda'.
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BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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11/20/2015 5:36:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Here are the muslims countries I can personally think of that have had female heads of states. There might be one or two more in Africa...

Pakistan
Bangladesh
Indonesia
Liberia
Krygzstan
Turkey
BlackFlags
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11/20/2015 5:38:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The fact that Muslim countries have had female heads of states holds a lot of volume, given a lot of non-muslim countries, the US included, have never had a female head of state.
BlackFlags
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11/20/2015 5:42:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Although the simple fact is that a woman has never been a head of state in any Arab majority country to my knowledge. Rarely are they even elected to high office. If you simply confine things to the Middle East, then I guess Turkey is one non-arab nation that has had a female head of state.

Islam spread to a lot of these countries outside the Middle East due to the fact that the religion promoted equality among all humans, whereas the gentile thing and discrimination with Christianity and Judaism made it harder to spread at the same pace. Perhaps this is also the same reason why these non-arab countries where Islam spread like a wildfire have also elected women.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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11/20/2015 6:42:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

It's more common in Iran, if you realize that the real power resides with the religious scholars. Several of the highest echelons of this class have been women, most famously Lady Amin. But, from what I get from his quote, he's saying that women are more mistreated in Iran and Saudi Arabia than they are elsewhere. In Saudi Arabia women face restrictions due to cultural differences, and Iran actually isn't as terrible to women as people in the West make out; most of the horror stories originate in the backwaters of the country where ethnic minorities have some bizarre cultural practices. Women actually played a huge role in the Islamic revolution, and since it's founding have seen high representation in universities, and higher levels of women in STEM than even Western countries. When you look at the metropolitan, Persian culture you'll see that what the West labels 'misogyny' can often be chalked up to societal differences. I don't see how you get a claim that Saudi Arabia or Iran, specifically, have had a female head of state from that quote.

As far as female heads of state/government in heavily Islamic countries, I know that Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Indonesia have elected female leaders, some of them repeatedly.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
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Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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11/20/2015 7:31:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

Heat of state as in Iran or Saudi (women don't be driving cars) Arabia ?

What can I say, I would be surprised.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Bennett91
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11/20/2015 3:11:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 4:42:59 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/19/2015 7:28:28 AM, Bennett91 wrote:
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

This should clear some things up for you: http://www.patheos.com...

- That sounded more like 'here is some propaganda'.

Lol like the other side is without bias? Go practice taqiyya else where.
Yassine
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11/20/2015 6:24:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 3:11:27 PM, Bennett91 wrote:

Lol like the other side is without bias? Go practice taqiyya else where.

- Sigh! & he ended up believing his own propaganda.
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Garbanza
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11/20/2015 11:53:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 5:36:24 AM, BlackFlags wrote:
Here are the muslims countries I can personally think of that have had female heads of states. There might be one or two more in Africa...

Pakistan
Bangladesh
Indonesia
Liberia
Krygzstan
Turkey

I don't think Liberia is a muslim country?
BlackFlags
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11/21/2015 1:03:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/20/2015 11:53:40 PM, Garbanza wrote:
I don't think Liberia is a muslim country?

Sorry, you are right there. They had a female Muslim head of state though.
lotsoffun
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11/21/2015 3:32:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/18/2015 10:11:57 PM, WorldSkeptic wrote:
I recently saw an interview in which Reza Aslan says: "You make these facile arguments like that women are somehow mistreated in the Muslim world? Well, that's certainly true, and many Muslim majority countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.. Did you know that Muslims have elected 7 women as their heads of states? Ah.. in those Muslim majority countries?". I most certainly think this is highly improbable, and the video was given to us by a TEACHER. I tried doing some research and found no evidence that this has happened, but perhaps I am wrong or did not look the right way?
https://www.youtube.com...

When many Muslims speak about the problems in their religion, they defend it by obfuscating, stretching the truth and just plain lying.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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11/21/2015 4:08:59 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/19/2015 2:59:29 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
"Islam does not promote violence or peace. Islam is just a religion. Just like every religion in the world, it depends on what you bring to it.". Where is he getting this sh!t? It's no more accurate than saying "Atlas Shrugged does not promote capitalism. Atlas Shrugged is just a book. Atlas Shrugged can be read as a communist manifesto by someone of a communist persuasion."

I can respect Muslims who try to give a serious answer to this question, even if I disagree with their conclusion, but Reza is just a disgraceful moron/and or liar.

I'm sorry but this is one of the most wildly irrational and unrealistic perspectives you could offer on the subject... You actually expect him to declare that Islam advocates violence on national television. He understands that there are violent directives in the Quran and isn't saying that there aren't...he's saying that there are also peaceful ones. His whole point is that whether you choose to act violently or not has more to do with you than with the Quran.

And part of the reason why you should be especially understanding of his framing is that he is trying to put the religion in context for a national audience, many of whom have mistakenly bigoted notions of what the religion is.

"disgrace" "moron" "liar"?....really? come on now.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
dylancatlow
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11/21/2015 4:25:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/21/2015 4:08:59 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 11/19/2015 2:59:29 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
"Islam does not promote violence or peace. Islam is just a religion. Just like every religion in the world, it depends on what you bring to it.". Where is he getting this sh!t? It's no more accurate than saying "Atlas Shrugged does not promote capitalism. Atlas Shrugged is just a book. Atlas Shrugged can be read as a communist manifesto by someone of a communist persuasion."

I can respect Muslims who try to give a serious answer to this question, even if I disagree with their conclusion, but Reza is just a disgraceful moron/and or liar.

I'm sorry but this is one of the most wildly irrational and unrealistic perspectives you could offer on the subject... You actually expect him to declare that Islam advocates violence on national television. He understands that there are violent directives in the Quran and isn't saying that there aren't...he's saying that there are also peaceful ones. His whole point is that whether you choose to act violently or not has more to do with you than with the Quran.

I expect him to give a serious answer e.g. "Yes, in certain places Islam promotes violence, but there's enough passages where it preaches the opposite so I don't think the issue is unresolvable" and maybe follow that up by citing passages, not evade the question with some bullsh1t about "religions can't promote violence, because religions can't promote anything, by definition." It's simply not true, and it doesn't take more than a moment's thought to realize it. The fact that he's a religious scholar means that he's had plenty of time to reach that conclusion. Either he's too delusional/stupid to do so, or he's a liar trying to mislead the public into believing something that is convenient for him.

And part of the reason why you should be especially understanding of his framing is that he is trying to put the religion in context for a national audience, many of whom have mistakenly bigoted notions of what the religion is.

"disgrace" "moron" "liar"?....really? come on now.