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Don't Enlist

Reasoning
Posts: 4,456
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9/29/2010 8:11:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The military does not serve the American people. It does not fight for freedom. It is a tool for empire that primarily protects the interests of the political class.

Military recruiters routinely lie to applicants. Military service is a costly and unreliable way to receive scholarship money or vocational training.

Don't sign your life away to the government. Don't enlist.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Reasoning
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9/29/2010 8:32:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 8:29:53 PM, Caramel wrote:
Reasoning maybe you could consider a career in the army.

lol. :P
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/29/2010 8:39:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Technically that's not enlistment, Sieben.

Reasoning:
The US does not have imperial ambitions at this time by any definition that would not declare all countries imperial.

There is no "American people" to serve, there are only individuals.

The military fights for confused motives. A determined member can twist that about in many ways.

It is tautological that the employees of politicians will have to perform the duties assigned by politicians, whether those duties are in the interests of those politicians depends on the cleverness of those politicians.

If by "lie" you refer to promises made by the recruiters, all such promises have to be listed before signing any contract, according to the contract.

I will not analyze the costs and benefits in terms of training, that is a calculation belonging outside the politics forum, and one that differs for people.

The government makes a claim on your life whether you enlist or not. It permits some variation as to the nature of that claim. And successfully fighting it (and, more importantly, all the rival governments, most of which are even worse) requires consideration of every tool it leaves open.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Reasoning
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9/29/2010 8:46:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 8:39:02 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Reasoning:
The US does not have imperial ambitions at this time by any definition that would not declare all countries imperial.

The U.S. is an imperial power. Not all countries are.

There is no "American people" to serve, there are only individuals.

Individuals that live in the geographic area known as America are called American people.

The military fights for confused motives. A determined member can twist that about in many ways.

Individuals in the military are there for different reasons, the military exists to serve the military-industrial complex.

If by "lie" you refer to promises made by the recruiters, all such promises have to be listed before signing any contract, according to the contract.

http://usmilitary.about.com...
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
Ragnar_Rahl
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9/29/2010 8:58:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 8:46:40 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/29/2010 8:39:02 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Reasoning:
The US does not have imperial ambitions at this time by any definition that would not declare all countries imperial.

The U.S. is an imperial power. Not all countries are.
As the affirmative on that question, this is where you bring in your definition and your case.


There is no "American people" to serve, there are only individuals.

Individuals that live in the geographic area known as America are called American people.
Plural. However, earlier you referred to "the American people". This singular noun refers to something that does not exist. It is a myth perpetuated by socialists, the statist kind, the magic fairies make anarcho-love and anarcho-peace kind, and the kind that are both.

Individuals in the military are there for different reasons
True.

the military exists to serve the military-industrial complex.
That is not a concrete entity, it's only one in strawland.


If by "lie" you refer to promises made by the recruiters, all such promises have to be listed before signing any contract, according to the contract.

http://usmilitary.about.com...
"The vast majority of recruiters are hard-working, honest, and trustworthy"
It also has a section on how to report recruiter misconduct.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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9/29/2010 9:17:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 8:11:48 PM, Reasoning wrote:
The military does not serve the American people. It does not fight for freedom. It is a tool for empire that primarily protects the interests of the political class.

Military recruiters routinely lie to applicants. Military service is a costly and unreliable way to receive scholarship money or vocational training.

Don't sign your life away to the government. Don't enlist.

This.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Reasoning
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9/29/2010 9:32:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 9:20:46 PM, TPF wrote:
I'm an Austro-libertarian and plan to join.

Does not compute.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
TPF
Posts: 98
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9/29/2010 9:35:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 9:32:40 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/29/2010 9:20:46 PM, TPF wrote:
I'm an Austro-libertarian and plan to join.

Does not compute.

I'm not ancap, so.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/29/2010 9:37:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 9:32:40 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/29/2010 9:20:46 PM, TPF wrote:
I'm an Austro-libertarian and plan to join.

Does not compute.

Agreed.
Reasoning
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9/29/2010 9:48:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 9:35:52 PM, TPF wrote:
At 9/29/2010 9:32:40 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/29/2010 9:20:46 PM, TPF wrote:
I'm an Austro-libertarian and plan to join.

Does not compute.

I'm not ancap, so.

Do you hate the state?
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
TPF
Posts: 98
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9/29/2010 9:50:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 9:48:54 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/29/2010 9:35:52 PM, TPF wrote:
At 9/29/2010 9:32:40 PM, Reasoning wrote:
At 9/29/2010 9:20:46 PM, TPF wrote:
I'm an Austro-libertarian and plan to join.

Does not compute.

I'm not ancap, so.

Do you hate the state?

Nope.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/29/2010 9:53:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 9:50:25 PM, TPF wrote:
At 9/29/2010 9:48:54 PM, Reasoning wrote:

Do you hate the state?

Nope.

Then you're not a libertarian.
TPF
Posts: 98
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9/29/2010 9:55:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 9:53:54 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/29/2010 9:50:25 PM, TPF wrote:
At 9/29/2010 9:48:54 PM, Reasoning wrote:

Do you hate the state?

Nope.

Then you're not a libertarian.

Wanting to minimize the state to is farthest possible extent is not the same thing as "hating" the state.
J.Kenyon
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9/29/2010 9:56:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 9:55:04 PM, TPF wrote:
Wanting to minimize the state to is farthest possible extent is not the same thing as "hating" the state.

Do you hate the state in its present form?
TPF
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9/29/2010 9:56:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 9:56:40 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/29/2010 9:55:04 PM, TPF wrote:
Wanting to minimize the state to is farthest possible extent is not the same thing as "hating" the state.

Do you hate the state in its present form?

Mostly.
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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9/29/2010 9:57:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
By that question, Reasoning, I assume you've read http://www.lewrockwell.com... ?
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
Reasoning
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9/29/2010 10:09:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/29/2010 9:57:05 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
By that question, Reasoning, I assume you've read http://www.lewrockwell.com... ?

Yup.
"What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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9/30/2010 6:26:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
http://usgovinfo.about.com...

This is the one of the most coercive, sexist, and enslaving law that is still in effect. I hate everything about it.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Atheism
Posts: 2,033
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9/30/2010 6:33:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
So as soon as I turn 18, should there not be a draft at that point, I must register under threat of incredibly harsh penalties? And it is only for men?
I miss the old members.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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9/30/2010 6:35:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/30/2010 6:33:30 PM, Atheism wrote:
So as soon as I turn 18, should there not be a draft at that point, I must register under threat of incredibly harsh penalties? And it is only for men?

Yep. If you don't sign into their registry, even though there is no war, you will be subject to a quarter-million dollar fine and 5 year incarceration.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Atheism
Posts: 2,033
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9/30/2010 6:37:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/30/2010 6:35:46 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 9/30/2010 6:33:30 PM, Atheism wrote:
So as soon as I turn 18, should there not be a draft at that point, I must register under threat of incredibly harsh penalties? And it is only for men?

Yep. If you don't sign into their registry, even though there is no war, you will be subject to a quarter-million dollar fine and 5 year incarceration.

/Wrists.
I miss the old members.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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9/30/2010 6:38:54 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/30/2010 6:37:00 PM, Atheism wrote:
At 9/30/2010 6:35:46 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 9/30/2010 6:33:30 PM, Atheism wrote:
So as soon as I turn 18, should there not be a draft at that point, I must register under threat of incredibly harsh penalties? And it is only for men?

Yep. If you don't sign into their registry, even though there is no war, you will be subject to a quarter-million dollar fine and 5 year incarceration.

/Wrists.

Don't worry. It's okay because our government runs on popular sovereignty, which means I am governed by my consent.
</history class lesson today>
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/30/2010 6:41:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/30/2010 6:26:30 PM, wjmelements wrote:
http://usgovinfo.about.com...

This is the one of the most coercive, sexist, and enslaving law that is still in effect. I hate everything about it.

I filled out the form about 2 months late and included a copy of the 13th Amendment in the envelope.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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9/30/2010 6:42:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/30/2010 6:41:07 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/30/2010 6:26:30 PM, wjmelements wrote:
http://usgovinfo.about.com...
This is the one of the most coercive, sexist, and enslaving law that is still in effect. I hate everything about it.
I filled out the form about 2 months late and included a copy of the 13th Amendment in the envelope.

I'll find some sarcastic way to register. I was going to do something similar, but now I have to top that.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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9/30/2010 6:44:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The most you'll realistically face for penalty with failure of selective service is maybe missing out on a job or a state benefit, the courts rarely enforce it.

As for your history lesson today...
today in Political Theory someone got sidetracked by monopoly questions due to the similarity to the word oligarchy (it's an intro class, whaddya expect), and the teacher's all "No, monopoly has nothing to do with government."

So I said "Um, it is one."

He's all "You must be an anti-federalist and want state's rights."

"Umm, I didn't say it shouldn't be a monopoly. I said it IS ONE. Also, state monopolies are still monopolies."

"But no one really uses the word monopoly that way"

"Hobbes does, or the people writing about him do anyway. It's kind of how he defined the state."

"Let's change the subject."
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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9/30/2010 6:57:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 9/30/2010 6:42:42 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 9/30/2010 6:41:07 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 9/30/2010 6:26:30 PM, wjmelements wrote:
http://usgovinfo.about.com...
This is the one of the most coercive, sexist, and enslaving law that is still in effect. I hate everything about it.
I filled out the form about 2 months late and included a copy of the 13th Amendment in the envelope.

I'll find some sarcastic way to register. I was going to do something similar, but now I have to top that.

Anthrax?