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Anarchism Conclusion

Kleptin
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10/1/2010 1:41:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I've come to my conclusion about Anarchism.

I've concluded that Anarchism is essentially like the following scenario:

I have a poorly built washing machine. It washes clothes, but it doesn't do it in what I view to be the best way possible for me. I dismantle the washing machine and now have a rectangular tub. I then proceed to scrub my clothes in this tub. After a few weeks, I add a washboard for convenience. A week after that, I add a motor. I then continue to make improvements bit by bit, week by week, until I have a fully functional washing machine about a year later.

The problem is, it didn't really work out like I wanted. Even though I got to personalize it and work out the kinks from the bottom up, I overlooked a lot of stuff. It actually works worse than the original.

The system of Anarchy, as described to me by people on this forum, would essentially be the dismantling of parts of government. The society would be reconstructed from that dismantling to operate just like the government, except with a different ideology behind it.

Everything would remain almost exactly the same for a normal consumer. There would be little to no difference in day-to-day life. Cost we used to pay to the government will show up in more expensive products, since the companies will take on the burden of their own red tape.

Nothing will be made easier. The elimination of the middle man doesn't provide a direct flow from one to the other. All it does it fragment it into many other exchanges, most of which normal people are too lazy or too stupid to bother with.

Anarchism is a Philosopher's government. Ideologically, it probably sounds great, but practically, it's the same BS made even more complicated because our country is made up of stupid, lazy, PRACTICAL people, not fanciful and idealistic INTELLIGENT people.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Sieben
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10/1/2010 1:48:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 1:41:33 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I've come to my conclusion about Anarchism.

I've concluded that Anarchism is essentially like the following scenario:

I have a poorly built washing machine. It washes clothes, but it doesn't do it in what I view to be the best way possible for me. I dismantle the washing machine and now have a rectangular tub. I then proceed to scrub my clothes in this tub. After a few weeks, I add a washboard for convenience. A week after that, I add a motor. I then continue to make improvements bit by bit, week by week, until I have a fully functional washing machine about a year later.

The problem is, it didn't really work out like I wanted. Even though I got to personalize it and work out the kinks from the bottom up, I overlooked a lot of stuff. It actually works worse than the original.

The system of Anarchy, as described to me by people on this forum, would essentially be the dismantling of parts of government. The society would be reconstructed from that dismantling to operate just like the government, except with a different ideology behind it.
Depends how you get to Anarchy...
Everything would remain almost exactly the same for a normal consumer. There would be little to no difference in day-to-day life. Cost we used to pay to the government will show up in more expensive products, since the companies will take on the burden of their own red tape.
The point is that any red tape would actually be cost efficient, and that regulations serve an actual purpose rather than just to keep out competition like in the status quo.
Nothing will be made easier. The elimination of the middle man doesn't provide a direct flow from one to the other. All it does it fragment it into many other exchanges, most of which normal people are too lazy or too stupid to bother with.
You're just disappointed with their IP argument. They should have picked something else like tariffs or banking.
Anarchism is a Philosopher's government. Ideologically, it probably sounds great, but practically, it's the same BS made even more complicated because our country is made up of stupid, lazy, PRACTICAL people, not fanciful and idealistic INTELLIGENT people.
I don't think you've shown ceteris parabus that government is better for societies.
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Kleptin
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10/1/2010 2:00:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 1:48:53 PM, Sieben wrote:
Depends how you get to Anarchy...

The end result is still the elimination of the government, and the process would still involve the substitution of replacement parts that will most likely cause problems in their implementation, leading to the necessary removal of other parts and the replacement of those, leading to yet more problems etc. Repeat until all government is replaced and in place of a computer, you have some sort of tin can attached to a toaster, a television, and a typewriter using string and glue...

The point is that any red tape would actually be cost efficient, and that regulations serve an actual purpose rather than just to keep out competition like in the status quo.

I see no difference between the government now an an anarchy in regards to the two statements you made just now.

You're just disappointed with their IP argument. They should have picked something else like tariffs or banking.

I'm fairly certain that they'd both play out the same way. Removal of taxes would just translate to higher prices on products and services.

I don't think you've shown ceteris parabus that government is better for societies.

I don't intend to. Government doesn't work great now, but it works. There's really no earthshattering support for Anarchy as a substitute aside from idealism and daydreams. It's easy to argue ideology. If you're familiar enough with any ideology, you can look like a pro using it to argue against anything.

The problem is when people actually expect their ideology to manifest properly in the practical world. I don't see that happening with Anarchy.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Ragnar_Rahl
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10/1/2010 2:03:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I see no difference between the government now an an anarchy in regards to the two statements you made just now.
Economic calculation of the value of enforcing x , by subjecting it to a who is willing to pay how much test.

Anarchy still has problems of course. ^_^
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Sieben
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10/1/2010 2:04:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I like how at DDO people think they can dispense competing ideologies with a clever phrase or quip. Not even republicans or democrats are so stupid as to fall apart after a few sentences. There are smart people in every camp.

When ppl say "anarchy is chaos lol", they think we don't have a good response to that? Free market advocates have answers to the poverty and inequality problems. Communists have answers to the incentive problem. They think the intelligent anarchists haven't anticipated these third grade responses?

I'm getting sick of everyone trolling from their position of ignorance.
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Cody_Franklin
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10/1/2010 2:05:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:04:47 PM, Sieben wrote:
I like how at DDO people think they can dispense competing ideologies with a clever phrase or quip. Not even republicans or democrats are so stupid as to fall apart after a few sentences. There are smart people in every camp.

When ppl say "anarchy is chaos lol", they think we don't have a good response to that? Free market advocates have answers to the poverty and inequality problems. Communists have answers to the incentive problem. They think the intelligent anarchists haven't anticipated these third grade responses?

I'm getting sick of everyone trolling from their position of ignorance.

I like how your complaints don't respond to anything.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/1/2010 2:07:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:04:47 PM, Sieben wrote:
I'm getting sick of everyone trolling from their position of ignorance.
There are no refutations to imagination. Come with something realistic and we will talk.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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10/1/2010 2:08:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Kleptin, do you still want us to tell you to get back to your studies? ;)

Nonetheless, I am quite happy that you have returned, even if it is briefly.

You truly are open-minded and wise in the sense that you seem to have general experiences that you have analyzed and interpreted to add to conversation.

I agree almost completely with your anarchy conclusion, so I may end up just refuting some anarchists that post here.
studentathletechristian8
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10/1/2010 2:11:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:04:47 PM, Sieben wrote:
I like how at DDO people think they can dispense competing ideologies with a clever phrase or quip.

Cool.

Not even republicans or democrats are so stupid as to fall apart after a few sentences.

You may be surprised.

There are smart people in every camp.

Obvious is obvious.

When ppl say "anarchy is chaos lol", they think we don't have a good response to that?

Do you?

Free market advocates have answers to the poverty and inequality problems.

If my teachers ask me if I have an answer to a mathematical equation, I say that I do. However, this does not mean that it is the proper solution.

Communists have answers to the incentive problem.

Look at other aspects of communism.

They think the intelligent anarchists haven't anticipated these third grade responses?

You need to learn more about libertarians.

I'm getting sick of everyone trolling from their position of ignorance.

Wow. You're trolling from your position of ignorance as well.

See how annoying it gets when you don't contribute much to conversation?
Kleptin
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10/1/2010 2:11:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:03:13 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I see no difference between the government now an an anarchy in regards to the two statements you made just now.
Economic calculation of the value of enforcing x , by subjecting it to a who is willing to pay how much test.

The foreign language I took in Highschool was Spanish. I have no idea what language this is.

Anarchy still has problems of course. ^_^

Anarchy really only seems effective if it were perfect.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
studentathletechristian8
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10/1/2010 2:12:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:11:17 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:03:13 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I see no difference between the government now an an anarchy in regards to the two statements you made just now.
Economic calculation of the value of enforcing x , by subjecting it to a who is willing to pay how much test.

The foreign language I took in Highschool was Spanish. I have no idea what language this is.

Anarchy still has problems of course. ^_^

Anarchy really only seems effective if it were perfect.

Thus, it is neither effective nor applicable in today's society.
Kleptin
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10/1/2010 2:13:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:04:47 PM, Sieben wrote:
I like how at DDO people think they can dispense competing ideologies with a clever phrase or quip. Not even republicans or democrats are so stupid as to fall apart after a few sentences. There are smart people in every camp.

When ppl say "anarchy is chaos lol", they think we don't have a good response to that? Free market advocates have answers to the poverty and inequality problems. Communists have answers to the incentive problem. They think the intelligent anarchists haven't anticipated these third grade responses?

I'm getting sick of everyone trolling from their position of ignorance.

How else would we get the ego boost from thinking that we contributed something substantial if the topic is above our understanding?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
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10/1/2010 2:13:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:07:10 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:04:47 PM, Sieben wrote:
I'm getting sick of everyone trolling from their position of ignorance.
There are no refutations to imagination. Come with something realistic and we will talk.

The refutation to imagination happens to be the act of coming up with something realistic.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
innomen
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10/1/2010 2:14:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:00:47 PM, Kleptin wrote:

The problem is when people actually expect their ideology to manifest properly in the practical world. I don't see that happening with Anarchy.

And any attempt will surely end in disaster as almost every attempt at such societies always end in disaster. The best societies are the ones that take advantage of our defects of character rather hang all hope on the virtues of man.
Kleptin
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10/1/2010 2:15:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:05:51 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:04:47 PM, Sieben wrote:
I like how at DDO people think they can dispense competing ideologies with a clever phrase or quip. Not even republicans or democrats are so stupid as to fall apart after a few sentences. There are smart people in every camp.

When ppl say "anarchy is chaos lol", they think we don't have a good response to that? Free market advocates have answers to the poverty and inequality problems. Communists have answers to the incentive problem. They think the intelligent anarchists haven't anticipated these third grade responses?

I'm getting sick of everyone trolling from their position of ignorance.

I like how your complaints don't respond to anything.

It sucks because they're not the same color they were when I bought them.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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10/1/2010 2:16:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:00:47 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 1:48:53 PM, Sieben wrote:
Depends how you get to Anarchy...

The end result is still the elimination of the government, and the process would still involve the substitution of replacement parts that will most likely cause problems in their implementation, leading to the necessary removal of other parts and the replacement of those, leading to yet more problems etc. Repeat until all government is replaced and in place of a computer, you have some sort of tin can attached to a toaster, a television, and a typewriter using string and glue...

The only thing wrong with your analogy is that you assume that government is a computer, and anarchism is a mock-computer. Prove it? We think its the other way around.


The point is that any red tape would actually be cost efficient, and that regulations serve an actual purpose rather than just to keep out competition like in the status quo.

I see no difference between the government now an an anarchy in regards to the two statements you made just now.

... Do I have to show you that regulation under government exists for the benefit of politically connected corporations? And that the free market regulation we talk about would actually exist to protect the consumer?

You're just disappointed with their IP argument. They should have picked something else like tariffs or banking.

I'm fairly certain that they'd both play out the same way. Removal of taxes would just translate to higher prices on products and services.

Why? If the government is appropriating fewer resources and blowing them on retarded projects, life should get easier.

I don't think you've shown ceteris parabus that government is better for societies.

I don't intend to. Government doesn't work great now, but it works. There's really no earthshattering support for Anarchy as a substitute aside from idealism and daydreams.

By "earthshattering support" you mean empirical evidence. We'll I'm sorry the World Bank subsidized third world governments into existence. But all the best things are unprecedented. There are good reasons to think that anarchism would be unworkable in pre-industrial societies, the same way that assembly lines are unworkable in small villages because there are so few people.

Except the assembly line was a huge step forward from institutionalized serfdom. Atheism and Deism are a big leap from institutionalized religion. Anarchism is the next step away from institutionalized arbitration.

I mean, how simple is that? Government is judge in its own case. Game over.

If you're familiar enough with any ideology, you can look like a pro using it to argue against anything.
Is this a way of saying that you're going to ignore any strong arguments, because they just *sound* good and you know in your gut that anarchism is faulty?

The problem is when people actually expect their ideology to manifest properly in the practical world. I don't see that happening with Anarchy.
Says the guy who spends a couple of days listening to anarchist on the internet and thinks he's got it all figured out.
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Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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10/1/2010 2:16:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:15:07 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:05:51 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:04:47 PM, Sieben wrote:
I like how at DDO people think they can dispense competing ideologies with a clever phrase or quip. Not even republicans or democrats are so stupid as to fall apart after a few sentences. There are smart people in every camp.

When ppl say "anarchy is chaos lol", they think we don't have a good response to that? Free market advocates have answers to the poverty and inequality problems. Communists have answers to the incentive problem. They think the intelligent anarchists haven't anticipated these third grade responses?

I'm getting sick of everyone trolling from their position of ignorance.

I like how your complaints don't respond to anything.

It sucks because they're not the same color they were when I bought them.

I think I'm too dumb to understand what you're getting at.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/1/2010 2:16:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:13:53 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:07:10 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:04:47 PM, Sieben wrote:
I'm getting sick of everyone trolling from their position of ignorance.
There are no refutations to imagination. Come with something realistic and we will talk.

The refutation to imagination happens to be the act of coming up with something realistic.
The imagination remains.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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10/1/2010 2:17:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:16:25 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
It sucks because they're not the same color they were when I bought them.

I think I'm too dumb to understand what you're getting at.

I was trying to be funny because you said you liked complaints that don't respond to anything...

*twiddles thumbs*

SPARE ME THE SHAME OF BEING LAME >.>
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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10/1/2010 2:18:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:16:25 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:15:07 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:05:51 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:04:47 PM, Sieben wrote:
I like how at DDO people think they can dispense competing ideologies with a clever phrase or quip. Not even republicans or democrats are so stupid as to fall apart after a few sentences. There are smart people in every camp.

When ppl say "anarchy is chaos lol", they think we don't have a good response to that? Free market advocates have answers to the poverty and inequality problems. Communists have answers to the incentive problem. They think the intelligent anarchists haven't anticipated these third grade responses?

I'm getting sick of everyone trolling from their position of ignorance.

I like how your complaints don't respond to anything.

It sucks because they're not the same color they were when I bought them.

I think I'm too dumb to understand what you're getting at.

He's giving a complaint that doesn't respond to anything.

I was responding to Mirza, and spiking everyone else who would come to this thread to pile on the anti-anarchy train.
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Kleptin
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10/1/2010 2:18:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:16:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
The imagination remains.

Imagination counts for nothing unless it manifests in reality.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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10/1/2010 2:18:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:17:51 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:16:25 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
It sucks because they're not the same color they were when I bought them.

I think I'm too dumb to understand what you're getting at.

I was trying to be funny because you said you liked complaints that don't respond to anything...

*twiddles thumbs*

SPARE ME THE SHAME OF BEING LAME >.>

I understood what you were trying to do.

LAME X 2 ;) Jk.
Sieben
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10/1/2010 2:19:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:07:10 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:04:47 PM, Sieben wrote:
I'm getting sick of everyone trolling from their position of ignorance.
There are no refutations to imagination. Come with something realistic and we will talk.

All normative statements are "imaginary".
Things that are so interesting:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
studentathletechristian8
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10/1/2010 2:20:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:18:42 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:16:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
The imagination remains.

Imagination counts for nothing unless it manifests in reality.

False. Imagination ----> subjectivity ----> interpretation ----> inspiration ----> ambition ----> deeper mental processes ----> realistic application. There are many factors that determine the validity of imagination.
Ragnar_Rahl
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10/1/2010 2:20:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:11:17 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:03:13 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
I see no difference between the government now an an anarchy in regards to the two statements you made just now.
Economic calculation of the value of enforcing x , by subjecting it to a who is willing to pay how much test.

The foreign language I took in Highschool was Spanish. I have no idea what language this is.
It's Austrian jargon.

If you can't shift costs to other people, you'll only buy what's worth the price. If you can (taxes) you're buying lots of crap that ain't worth the price.


Anarchy still has problems of course. ^_^

Anarchy really only seems effective if it were perfect.
Well, it's not the anarchy that has to be perfect-- that's meaningless, anarchy is what it it is, a system, if it becomes "perfect" it's something else that it is. It's that law has to have 0 possible arbitrary points, both in abstract and concrete-- there has to be nowhere that it is possible for rational people to disagree, and no irrational people.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Cody_Franklin
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10/1/2010 2:21:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:17:51 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:16:25 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
It sucks because they're not the same color they were when I bought them.

I think I'm too dumb to understand what you're getting at.

I was trying to be funny because you said you liked complaints that don't respond to anything...

*twiddles thumbs*

SPARE ME THE SHAME OF BEING LAME >.>

........ Weeeeeelllll....... Not really sure where to go from here. :P
Kleptin
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10/1/2010 2:40:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:16:07 PM, Sieben wrote:
The only thing wrong with your analogy is that you assume that government is a computer, and anarchism is a mock-computer. Prove it? We think its the other way around.

I'm not arguing that at all. I believe you guys think it's the other way around. It's just that the problem with deconstructing something in order to fix it, is that it usually makes it worse unless everything goes perfectly. If Anarchism doesn't go perfectly, it will most likely be worse than whatever government it originally was.

... Do I have to show you that regulation under government exists for the benefit of politically connected corporations? And that the free market regulation we talk about would actually exist to protect the consumer?

Obviously not. I'm more interested in why you think that a flaw in government stemming from corruption in man won't manifest in anarchism since man will be just as corrupted. Like it or not, Anarchism as you define it is a system, a very finely balanced system, and one that can be abused just like any other system. This is the problem when you propose a fix that requires or assumes perfection in execution. On paper, it sounds great. In practice?

Why? If the government is appropriating fewer resources and blowing them on retarded projects, life should get easier.

It *should*. What makes the fail rate of the government that much higher than any other company? The only assumption is that if you allow competition, you get more adaptation from the drive to survive. The only way you can get that drive is if people legitimately care enough to act as the economic machinery that determines what company stays and what company goes, like natural selection.

Guess what? The government has existed this long because people are too lazy and too stupid to care about X things and would rather pay to outsource that thinking. These people will do nothing different in an anarchy. They'll just die a little more often, or waste money on inferior products that haven't reached the peak of competition yet. The waste will always be there, because Anarchism depends on perfect machinery that can never exist.

By "earthshattering support" you mean empirical evidence. We'll I'm sorry the World Bank subsidized third world governments into existence. But all the best things are unprecedented. There are good reasons to think that anarchism would be unworkable in pre-industrial societies, the same way that assembly lines are unworkable in small villages because there are so few people.

I'm aware of those latter points. I've used those arguments to justify the role of taxes on the upstart of civilization. I'm not looking for empirical evidence, even though that would be great. Anarchism needs something to transition from paper to practice. Even a theoretical response to possible difficulties would be nice, but it doesn't even have that. It doesn't even have a failsafe if things start to screw up during the transition away from a government.

Except the assembly line was a huge step forward from institutionalized serfdom. Atheism and Deism are a big leap from institutionalized religion. Anarchism is the next step away from institutionalized arbitration.

I mean, how simple is that? Government is judge in its own case. Game over.

I don't even really consider these things big leaps or huge steps. Big changes, probably, but how do you define progress? No doubt, in a way that justifies Anarchy.

Is this a way of saying that you're going to ignore any strong arguments, because they just *sound* good and you know in your gut that anarchism is faulty?

Yes and no. I like the strong arguments that demonstrate practicality. I dislike the strong arguments that hinge on idealism at the expense of practicality. Example: Geo once argued that even if the Judeo-Christian God revealed himself in an undeniable, inarguable way, he would still refuse to serve him and would rather go to hell, on the account of God being a tyrannical dictator. I can't argue against him, but I can and do laugh at him behind his back.

The problem is when people actually expect their ideology to manifest properly in the practical world. I don't see that happening with Anarchy.

Says the guy who spends a couple of days listening to anarchist on the internet and thinks he's got it all figured out.

Even though it's definitely not my first couple of days listening to an anarchist (There are many of them who predate you on this site), I won't pretend I'm an expert. Let's try this: If you think that more exposure would lead to me changing my mind, give me something that you think would serve as an interesting fact I did not know about anarchism, that would show that I need to do a lot more thinking.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
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10/1/2010 2:43:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/1/2010 2:20:28 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:18:42 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 10/1/2010 2:16:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
The imagination remains.

Imagination counts for nothing unless it manifests in reality.

False. Imagination ----> subjectivity ----> interpretation ----> inspiration ----> ambition ----> deeper mental processes ----> realistic application. There are many factors that determine the validity of imagination.

Explain to me how any of the middle components matter if there is no eventual manifestation in reality.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.