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Marine Le Pen

Skepsikyma
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11/27/2015 4:35:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This lady is very interesting to me. First of all, she's someone who has what I think is the perfect stance towards terrorism: she sees Islam as a healthy body, and Salafism, petro-theocracy, and militancy as cancers to be excised from that body through a carefully tailored approach. She sees assimilation as important for France, as well as some protectionism. Her view on globalism casts it as a system which benefits the wealthy and eviscerates the lower class by erasing nationalism and in-group loyalties, while propping up what is basically slavery in third world nations. Her foreign policy approach is grounded in realism, and her domestic policy in pragmatism. She really, from her positions, appears to be the perfect moderate, reasonable politician.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/5/2015 9:08:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/27/2015 4:35:31 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
This lady is very interesting to me. First of all, she's someone who has what I think is the perfect stance towards terrorism: she sees Islam as a healthy body, and Salafism, petro-theocracy, and militancy as cancers to be excised from that body through a carefully tailored approach. She sees assimilation as important for France, as well as some protectionism. Her view on globalism casts it as a system which benefits the wealthy and eviscerates the lower class by erasing nationalism and in-group loyalties, while propping up what is basically slavery in third world nations. Her foreign policy approach is grounded in realism, and her domestic policy in pragmatism.



- I am not sure if you know this, but Marine Le Pen is extremely unpopular amongst immigrants & particularly muslims in France. The FN are categorised as extreme right wing, but their views are mostly shared implicitly by other parties, expect for probably anti-immigration policies & anti-capitalist policies. The reason for such unpopularity is that Marine Le Pen's stance is explicitly anti-immigration, but the Media, being controlled by you know who, make it sound anti-Islamic. If you watched her interviews, you'd notice how biased they are. French Media is disgusting when it comes to politics.

- Personally, I think the FN, so far as it preserves its ideals, would serve best the interest of France & its future. I actually agree with you on the fact that the FN might also be the best option for Muslims in the future. The truth is, the other parties are secretly all pro-zionism & anti-Islamic (or any religion, save the Jewish religion), while in the open they pretentiously speak of the opposite, sometimes not even. Yet, the FN somehow receives all the responsibility & all the hate. It's a big childish political game & I am sick of it.

She really, from her positions, appears to be the perfect moderate, reasonable politician.

- She represents the average French middle-class person, yes. But her views are unpredictable. It's good to talk about ideals of abolishing monetary monopoly or fundamentalist Islam, but what will she effectively do once she is in power?!
Current Debates:

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smelisox
Posts: 850
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12/5/2015 9:13:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Everyone hates the FN and Marine Le Pen as well as her father and niece.

Please, if you don't live in a country, don't discuss it's politicians and parties.
ghastly1302
Posts: 24
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12/6/2015 1:35:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It was always a fascist tactic to appeal to the working classes. Classic right-wing populism and scapegoating. Nationalism should be erased. Division of mankind into arbitrary exclusive groups is irrational.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
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12/6/2015 2:38:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 1:35:18 PM, ghastly1302 wrote:
It was always a fascist tactic to appeal to the working classes.
Lol. Honestly, this little gem just speaks for itself.

Classic right-wing populism and scapegoating.
How is she scapegoating? She isn't blaming immigrants for the problem, she blames French and European political leaders.

Nationalism should be erased. Division of mankind into arbitrary exclusive groups is irrational.
Mankind is irrational. Pretending that it isn't is the kind of absurd utopian naivete which has lead to travesty after travesty throughout history.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
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12/6/2015 2:41:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 9:13:36 AM, smelisox wrote:
Everyone hates the FN and Marine Le Pen as well as her father and niece.

She wouldn't be enjoying more and success at the voting booth were that the case. Logic is an amazing thing.

Please, if you don't live in a country, don't discuss it's politicians and parties.

Haha, hypocrisy at its finest. I'm not sure where you're living right now, but considering the fact that you've commented on Russian, French, and American politics, then you obviously aren't willing to swallow your own medicine.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
smelisox
Posts: 850
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12/6/2015 2:47:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 2:41:13 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/5/2015 9:13:36 AM, smelisox wrote:
Everyone hates the FN and Marine Le Pen as well as her father and niece.

She wouldn't be enjoying more and success at the voting booth were that the case. Logic is an amazing thing.

Please, if you don't live in a country, don't discuss it's politicians and parties.

Haha, hypocrisy at its finest. I'm not sure where you're living right now, but considering the fact that you've commented on Russian, French, and American politics, then you obviously aren't willing to swallow your own medicine.

Sorry, I forgot the part where countries were also people (???) and political parties.
ghastly1302
Posts: 24
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12/6/2015 2:51:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 2:38:16 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/6/2015 1:35:18 PM, ghastly1302 wrote:
It was always a fascist tactic to appeal to the working classes.
Lol. Honestly, this little gem just speaks for itself.

Classic right-wing populism and scapegoating.
How is she scapegoating? She isn't blaming immigrants for the problem, she blames French and European political leaders.

Nationalism should be erased. Division of mankind into arbitrary exclusive groups is irrational.
Mankind is irrational. Pretending that it isn't is the kind of absurd utopian naivete which has lead to travesty after travesty throughout history.

Learn some history,fascists always appeal to the working class by using anti-capitalist nationalist,racist and anti-globalization rhetoric. Capitalism and the rich are enemies of the fascists because they are totalitarians - they want to hold all power. This also applies to the red fascists(Bolsheviks) of the Soviet Union who destroyed anyone and anything threatening their absolute power.

Your "Mankind is irrational" remark is nonsense. If I a few hundred years ago told you that keeping other humans as slaves and treating them as property is irrational,what would you say to me? "Oh,It's just the way it is,accept it,grow up,it's Utopian to want to end slavery". This was not a view which was uncommon back then.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
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12/6/2015 2:55:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 9:08:10 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 11/27/2015 4:35:31 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
This lady is very interesting to me. First of all, she's someone who has what I think is the perfect stance towards terrorism: she sees Islam as a healthy body, and Salafism, petro-theocracy, and militancy as cancers to be excised from that body through a carefully tailored approach. She sees assimilation as important for France, as well as some protectionism. Her view on globalism casts it as a system which benefits the wealthy and eviscerates the lower class by erasing nationalism and in-group loyalties, while propping up what is basically slavery in third world nations. Her foreign policy approach is grounded in realism, and her domestic policy in pragmatism.

- I am not sure if you know this, but Marine Le Pen is extremely unpopular amongst immigrants & particularly muslims in France. The FN are categorised as extreme right wing, but their views are mostly shared implicitly by other parties, expect for probably anti-immigration policies & anti-capitalist policies. The reason for such unpopularity is that Marine Le Pen's stance is explicitly anti-immigration, but the Media, being controlled by you know who, make it sound anti-Islamic. If you watched her interviews, you'd notice how biased they are. French Media is disgusting when it comes to politics.

Yeah, that's what I find so interesting. From the way people have spoken about her, I expected a foaming-at-the-mouth unholy spawn of Ann Coulter and Hitler and she's... anything but. She just seems like a sane women who is a bit conservative and strongly anti-EU.

- Personally, I think the FN, so far as it preserves its ideals, would serve best the interest of France & its future. I actually agree with you on the fact that the FN might also be the best option for Muslims in the future. The truth is, the other parties are secretly all pro-zionism & anti-Islamic (or any religion, save the Jewish religion), while in the open they pretentiously speak of the opposite, sometimes not even.

Yeah, the fact that people have been penalized for advocating a boycott of Israeli products in France, as an American, is just staggering. It's like the guy in Canada who was, basically, banned from the internet and penalized for publicly disagreeing with a feminist on Twitter. How these countries can say that free speech is still in place when things like that are taking place is beyond me.

Yet, the FN somehow receives all the responsibility & all the hate. It's a big childish political game & I am sick of it.

I've definitely seen this in the US, and the sad thing is that it became self-fulfilling. I was never a big fan of the Tea Party, but there was definitely a concerted media blitz against them from the outset, and because members were treated as pariahs the reasonable ones slowly left until it actually became the hotbed of reactionary extremism which it had originally been portrayed as.

She really, from her positions, appears to be the perfect moderate, reasonable politician.

- She represents the average French middle-class person, yes. But her views are unpredictable. It's good to talk about ideals of abolishing monetary monopoly or fundamentalist Islam, but what will she effectively do once she is in power?!

Yeah, that is the important part. But I don't think that she'd be able to do anything too drastic without inciting civil disorder; the fact that the opposition to her and her party is so virulent would basically act as a check against her.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
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12/6/2015 3:06:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 2:51:51 PM, ghastly1302 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 2:38:16 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/6/2015 1:35:18 PM, ghastly1302 wrote:
It was always a fascist tactic to appeal to the working classes.
Lol. Honestly, this little gem just speaks for itself.

Classic right-wing populism and scapegoating.
How is she scapegoating? She isn't blaming immigrants for the problem, she blames French and European political leaders.

Nationalism should be erased. Division of mankind into arbitrary exclusive groups is irrational.
Mankind is irrational. Pretending that it isn't is the kind of absurd utopian naivete which has lead to travesty after travesty throughout history.

Learn some history,fascists always appeal to the working class by using anti-capitalist nationalist,racist and anti-globalization rhetoric. Capitalism and the rich are enemies of the fascists because they are totalitarians - they want to hold all power. This also applies to the red fascists(Bolsheviks) of the Soviet Union who destroyed anyone and anything threatening their absolute power.

Oh God, I'm not the one who needs to read a history book. You're trying to cram a specific political ideology into a spectrum of modern views in order to further legitimize your own by disassociating it with anything 'bad'. Fascism is defined by one trait above all else: Palingenetic ultranationalism. The casting of the past as some sort of 'golden age', scapegoating, and then the casting of the fascist political movement as one to restore 'lost glory'. Authoritarian communism takes the opposite approach: it belittles and ridicules the past, casting it in a fully negative light, and portrays the party as the 'new way forward' into uncharted territory. They're both authoritarian, they both appeal to the middle class, but their rhetoric and their overall focuses differ completely. And saying that because fascism applies to the middle class, anything that applies to the middle class is fascism is a painfully obvious logical fallacy.

A is B
C is B
Therefore, C is A

Fascism is an ideology which appeals to the middle class
This is an ideology which appeals to the middle class
Therefore, this is fascism

A table has four legs
This dog has four legs
Therefore, this dog is a table

See?

Your "Mankind is irrational" remark is nonsense.
You're doing a pretty good job of proving it for me =)

If I a few hundred years ago told you that keeping other humans as slaves and treating them as property is irrational,what would you say to me? "Oh,It's just the way it is,accept it,grow up,it's Utopian to want to end slavery"
Yes. First of all, slavery still exists. Second of all, wide-scale slavery ended when we developed the technology to make chattel labor unnecessary. It had nothing to do with people suddenly becoming more rational and enlightened.

This was not a view which was uncommon back then.

For good reason.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
ghastly1302
Posts: 24
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12/6/2015 3:36:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 3:06:36 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/6/2015 2:51:51 PM, ghastly1302 wrote:
At 12/6/2015 2:38:16 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/6/2015 1:35:18 PM, ghastly1302 wrote:
It was always a fascist tactic to appeal to the working classes.
Lol. Honestly, this little gem just speaks for itself.

Classic right-wing populism and scapegoating.
How is she scapegoating? She isn't blaming immigrants for the problem, she blames French and European political leaders.

Nationalism should be erased. Division of mankind into arbitrary exclusive groups is irrational.
Mankind is irrational. Pretending that it isn't is the kind of absurd utopian naivete which has lead to travesty after travesty throughout history.

Learn some history,fascists always appeal to the working class by using anti-capitalist nationalist,racist and anti-globalization rhetoric. Capitalism and the rich are enemies of the fascists because they are totalitarians - they want to hold all power. This also applies to the red fascists(Bolsheviks) of the Soviet Union who destroyed anyone and anything threatening their absolute power.

Oh God, I'm not the one who needs to read a history book. You're trying to cram a specific political ideology into a spectrum of modern views in order to further legitimize your own by disassociating it with anything 'bad'. Fascism is defined by one trait above all else: Palingenetic ultranationalism. The casting of the past as some sort of 'golden age', scapegoating, and then the casting of the fascist political movement as one to restore 'lost glory'. Authoritarian communism takes the opposite approach: it belittles and ridicules the past, casting it in a fully negative light, and portrays the party as the 'new way forward' into uncharted territory. They're both authoritarian, they both appeal to the middle class, but their rhetoric and their overall focuses differ completely. And saying that because fascism applies to the middle class, anything that applies to the middle class is fascism is a painfully obvious logical fallacy.

A is B
C is B
Therefore, C is A

Fascism is an ideology which appeals to the middle class
This is an ideology which appeals to the middle class
Therefore, this is fascism

A table has four legs
This dog has four legs
Therefore, this dog is a table

See?

Your "Mankind is irrational" remark is nonsense.
You're doing a pretty good job of proving it for me =)

If I a few hundred years ago told you that keeping other humans as slaves and treating them as property is irrational,what would you say to me? "Oh,It's just the way it is,accept it,grow up,it's Utopian to want to end slavery"
Yes. First of all, slavery still exists. Second of all, wide-scale slavery ended when we developed the technology to make chattel labor unnecessary. It had nothing to do with people suddenly becoming more rational and enlightened.

This was not a view which was uncommon back then.

For good reason.

Anarchists and libertarian socialists refer to authoritarian communists as "red fascists" because functionally,there is no difference between a communist dictatorship and a fascist dictatorship. All authoritarians are brothers.

"And saying that because fascism applies to the middle class, anything that applies to the middle class is fascism is a painfully obvious logical fallacy."

What post were you reading? I didn't say National Front was fascist because it appeals to the working class,they are fascists because of their statements and beliefs.

"Second of all, wide-scale slavery ended when we developed the technology to make chattel labor unnecessary. "

"It had nothing to do with people suddenly becoming more rational and enlightened."

It wasn't suddenly,and a lot of abolitionists would disagree.And don't you see the contradiction? How exactly does a society experience technological advancement without becoming at least a bit more rational and enlightened?

Authoritarians always claim that the masses are ignorant and need to be led by the more rational elite.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/6/2015 5:52:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 2:55:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

Yeah, that's what I find so interesting. From the way people have spoken about her, I expected a foaming-at-the-mouth unholy spawn of Ann Coulter and Hitler and she's... anything but. She just seems like a sane women who is a bit conservative and strongly anti-EU.

- She is the cultured kind, that's why. Most politicians here are uncultured idiots. You should listen to her father, he is the one I like.

- It's also important to note that her views have changed these past few years, or at least the way she handles the Media, which is worrisome. She had to cut all ties with her father just so she could be admitted into the political arena, from which the FN was perpetually excluded. A good political move, maybe, but it gives the impression that she is ceding her ideals to gain power.

Yeah, the fact that people have been penalized for advocating a boycott of Israeli products in France, as an American, is just staggering. It's like the guy in Canada who was, basically, banned from the internet and penalized for publicly disagreeing with a feminist on Twitter. How these countries can say that free speech is still in place when things like that are taking place is beyond me.

- Boycott of Israeli products is the least of it. The Jewish lobby in France is running a tyrannical regime. If you've heard of Dieudonne, he was sent to prison & fined 130,000euros for posting "I feel like Charlie Coulibaly" on his Facebook page. What I hate most about all this is the unfathomable HYPOCRISY it screams. At least when the Saudi Arabia or North Korea regimes do something like this, they don't pretend to be doing otherwise.

I've definitely seen this in the US, and the sad thing is that it became self-fulfilling. I was never a big fan of the Tea Party, but there was definitely a concerted media blitz against them from the outset, and because members were treated as pariahs the reasonable ones slowly left until it actually became the hotbed of reactionary extremism which it had originally been portrayed as.

- This will probably happen to the FN as well, if they keep playing the game. After Le Pen (the father) left the FN, this is becoming more & more a likely outcome.

Yeah, that is the important part. But I don't think that she'd be able to do anything too drastic without inciting civil disorder; the fact that the opposition to her and her party is so virulent would basically act as a check against her.

- I don't know what will happen in the mid-term future, but it would likely be impossible for the FN to perform any real changes in the near-future. The Media, the Banks & the Politics in France are controlled by the Jewish lobby. & until that changes, nothing else is going to.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
smelisox
Posts: 850
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12/6/2015 9:15:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 5:52:10 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/6/2015 2:55:54 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:

Yeah, that's what I find so interesting. From the way people have spoken about her, I expected a foaming-at-the-mouth unholy spawn of Ann Coulter and Hitler and she's... anything but. She just seems like a sane women who is a bit conservative and strongly anti-EU.

- She is the cultured kind, that's why. Most politicians here are uncultured idiots. You should listen to her father, he is the one I like.

- It's also important to note that her views have changed these past few years, or at least the way she handles the Media, which is worrisome. She had to cut all ties with her father just so she could be admitted into the political arena, from which the FN was perpetually excluded. A good political move, maybe, but it gives the impression that she is ceding her ideals to gain power.

Yeah, the fact that people have been penalized for advocating a boycott of Israeli products in France, as an American, is just staggering. It's like the guy in Canada who was, basically, banned from the internet and penalized for publicly disagreeing with a feminist on Twitter. How these countries can say that free speech is still in place when things like that are taking place is beyond me.

- Boycott of Israeli products is the least of it. The Jewish lobby in France is running a tyrannical regime. If you've heard of Dieudonne, he was sent to prison & fined 130,000euros for posting "I feel like Charlie Coulibaly" on his Facebook page. What I hate most about all this is the unfathomable HYPOCRISY it screams. At least when the Saudi Arabia or North Korea regimes do something like this, they don't pretend to be doing otherwise.

I've definitely seen this in the US, and the sad thing is that it became self-fulfilling. I was never a big fan of the Tea Party, but there was definitely a concerted media blitz against them from the outset, and because members were treated as pariahs the reasonable ones slowly left until it actually became the hotbed of reactionary extremism which it had originally been portrayed as.

- This will probably happen to the FN as well, if they keep playing the game. After Le Pen (the father) left the FN, this is becoming more & more a likely outcome.

Yeah, that is the important part. But I don't think that she'd be able to do anything too drastic without inciting civil disorder; the fact that the opposition to her and her party is so virulent would basically act as a check against her.

- I don't know what will happen in the mid-term future, but it would likely be impossible for the FN to perform any real changes in the near-future. The Media, the Banks & the Politics in France are controlled by the Jewish lobby. & until that changes, nothing else is going to.

You have an arab as your profile picture. You do realise they want to get rid of all arabs and foreigners in France?
Yassine
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12/7/2015 12:02:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 9:15:00 PM, smelisox wrote:

You have an arab as your profile picture.

- He is a Persian. Though yes, I am an Arab.

You do realise they want to get rid of all arabs and foreigners in France?

- Not really. That would be impossible at this point. They want to restraint immigration.

- More importantly, I never said I support Le Pen or agree with her views or her father's, or any other politicians for that matter. I despise almost all politicians & I despise politics as well. What I said was, Le Pen's position, at the moment, seems to be the most beneficial for France & its future, & it might be a good option for muslims in France too. That doesn't necessarily mean her position is good for everybody, especially for immigrants or foreigners, & it certainly isn't for those who actual hold all the power, the banks.

- Also, I don't necessarily agree with immigration, despite the fact I am an immigrant myself. Some forms of immigration are vital, some are inevitable, some are beneficial, some are important, & some are just unnecessary.
Current Debates:

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* http://www.debate.org...
Yassine
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12/7/2015 4:35:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 1:05:45 AM, ben2974 wrote:

Doesn't Le Pen want to leave the EU?

- Leave is such a strong word, but she wants France to be free from the restrictions of the EU, yes ; mainly, regarding immigration, finance, & energy.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
smelisox
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12/7/2015 3:20:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:35:34 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/7/2015 1:05:45 AM, ben2974 wrote:

Doesn't Le Pen want to leave the EU?

- Leave is such a strong word, but she wants France to be free from the restrictions of the EU, yes ; mainly, regarding immigration, finance, & energy.

The best thing for France would be a win by the Republican Alain Jupp". Sarkozy, Hollande and LePen would all destroy the country further.
Skepsikyma
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12/7/2015 4:57:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/6/2015 9:15:00 PM, smelisox wrote:
You have an arab as your profile picture. You do realise they want to get rid of all arabs and foreigners in France?

Have you listened to Le Pen explain her position herself? Because, in the video, she goes into a lot of detail, saying that she wants assimilation, because the current model (dumping immigrants on the outskirts of cities) leads to the formation of ghettos, segregation, inter-group conflict, and unemployment. She wants to restrict immigration to a controlled stream instead of a flood, describes borders as filters and not walls, and claims that it is disingenuous to welcome people to France when all that they can offer them at this point is unemployment and poverty. She focuses on the dangers of communitarianism, and places the blame on French politicians instead of the immigrants.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
smelisox
Posts: 850
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12/7/2015 6:18:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:57:29 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/6/2015 9:15:00 PM, smelisox wrote:
You have an arab as your profile picture. You do realise they want to get rid of all arabs and foreigners in France?

Have you listened to Le Pen explain her position herself? Because, in the video, she goes into a lot of detail, saying that she wants assimilation, because the current model (dumping immigrants on the outskirts of cities) leads to the formation of ghettos, segregation, inter-group conflict, and unemployment. She wants to restrict immigration to a controlled stream instead of a flood, describes borders as filters and not walls, and claims that it is disingenuous to welcome people to France when all that they can offer them at this point is unemployment and poverty. She focuses on the dangers of communitarianism, and places the blame on French politicians instead of the immigrants.

She's lying, that isn't the FN's policies.
Mirza
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12/7/2015 8:41:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 4:57:29 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
places the blame on French politicians instead of the immigrants.
Which is what makes her whole character sad.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,288
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12/8/2015 6:32:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 8:41:27 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:57:29 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
places the blame on French politicians instead of the immigrants.
Which is what makes her whole character sad.

How so? What problems do you have with her arguments from 1:01:00 to 1:08:00?
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
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12/8/2015 6:33:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 6:18:43 PM, smelisox wrote:
At 12/7/2015 4:57:29 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/6/2015 9:15:00 PM, smelisox wrote:
You have an arab as your profile picture. You do realise they want to get rid of all arabs and foreigners in France?

Have you listened to Le Pen explain her position herself? Because, in the video, she goes into a lot of detail, saying that she wants assimilation, because the current model (dumping immigrants on the outskirts of cities) leads to the formation of ghettos, segregation, inter-group conflict, and unemployment. She wants to restrict immigration to a controlled stream instead of a flood, describes borders as filters and not walls, and claims that it is disingenuous to welcome people to France when all that they can offer them at this point is unemployment and poverty. She focuses on the dangers of communitarianism, and places the blame on French politicians instead of the immigrants.

She's lying, that isn't the FN's policies.

Usually, when one proposes some sort of grand conspiracy, it is customary to present at least some sort of evidence.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Skepsikyma
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12/8/2015 6:34:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/7/2015 8:30:46 PM, ben2974 wrote:
I really identify with her answers from around 1:01:00 to about 1:08:00.

Yeah, the bit about sacrifice is particularly great. It's a sentiment that's seldom really expressed anymore, but it was the soul of my grandparents's generation as they immigrated.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Geogeer
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12/14/2015 6:29:31 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 11/27/2015 4:35:31 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
This lady is very interesting to me. First of all, she's someone who has what I think is the perfect stance towards terrorism: she sees Islam as a healthy body, and Salafism, petro-theocracy, and militancy as cancers to be excised from that body through a carefully tailored approach. She sees assimilation as important for France, as well as some protectionism. Her view on globalism casts it as a system which benefits the wealthy and eviscerates the lower class by erasing nationalism and in-group loyalties, while propping up what is basically slavery in third world nations. Her foreign policy approach is grounded in realism, and her domestic policy in pragmatism. She really, from her positions, appears to be the perfect moderate, reasonable politician.



Funny, I was just reading about her niece this weekend...

http://hosted.ap.org...
Skepsikyma
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12/15/2015 2:00:38 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/14/2015 6:29:31 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/27/2015 4:35:31 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
This lady is very interesting to me. First of all, she's someone who has what I think is the perfect stance towards terrorism: she sees Islam as a healthy body, and Salafism, petro-theocracy, and militancy as cancers to be excised from that body through a carefully tailored approach. She sees assimilation as important for France, as well as some protectionism. Her view on globalism casts it as a system which benefits the wealthy and eviscerates the lower class by erasing nationalism and in-group loyalties, while propping up what is basically slavery in third world nations. Her foreign policy approach is grounded in realism, and her domestic policy in pragmatism. She really, from her positions, appears to be the perfect moderate, reasonable politician.

Funny, I was just reading about her niece this weekend...

http://hosted.ap.org...

Haha, I'm less enthusiastic about her niece, but I definitely respect the woman's resolves. Characterizing France as a Catholic country is just a... bit much. France has always had a complicated relationship with the Church; it isn't Italy or Spain.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
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12/15/2015 2:06:33 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 2:00:38 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/14/2015 6:29:31 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/27/2015 4:35:31 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
This lady is very interesting to me. First of all, she's someone who has what I think is the perfect stance towards terrorism: she sees Islam as a healthy body, and Salafism, petro-theocracy, and militancy as cancers to be excised from that body through a carefully tailored approach. She sees assimilation as important for France, as well as some protectionism. Her view on globalism casts it as a system which benefits the wealthy and eviscerates the lower class by erasing nationalism and in-group loyalties, while propping up what is basically slavery in third world nations. Her foreign policy approach is grounded in realism, and her domestic policy in pragmatism. She really, from her positions, appears to be the perfect moderate, reasonable politician.

Funny, I was just reading about her niece this weekend...

http://hosted.ap.org...

Haha, I'm less enthusiastic about her niece, but I definitely respect the woman's resolves. Characterizing France as a Catholic country is just a... bit much. France has always had a complicated relationship with the Church; it isn't Italy or Spain.

Until the French revolution it was called the Eldest Daughter of the Church. I believe it is also the only other nation that a Pope has taken up residence in.