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For those that wanted to wait for motive - CO

TBR
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12/2/2015 10:30:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Source: Associated Press

Ex-wife says Colorado suspect vandalized another clinic
By Bruce Smith and Sadie Gurman, Associated Press

Wednesday, Dec. 2, 2015 | 1:19 p.m.

CHARLESTON, S.C. " The man accused of killing three people at a Colorado Planned Parenthood clinic left a decades-long trail of broken marriages, scant social connections and a reputation for religious zealotry that didn't match his yen for gambling and extramarital affairs.

New court documents and interviews reveal Robert Lewis Dear as an occasionally violent, fundamentalist loner who was known to nurse a grudge. He had one for at least 20 years against the reproductive health organization he is accused of attacking, going so far as to put glue in the locks of a clinic in Charleston years earlier, eerily reminiscent of another gunman's efforts to glue shut a Wichita, Kansas, abortion clinic's doors before killing a doctor there in 2009. The clinic in Charleston was not a Planned Parenthood facility at the time.

But still unknown is what caused Dear, 57, to escalate from petty vandalism to the fusillade he is accused of unleashing at the Colorado Springs office, where a law enforcement official said he rambled about "no more baby parts" after his arrest. Colorado Springs police have refused to disclose a motive for Dear's violence, but there's mounting evidence that Dear was deeply concerned about abortion.

Dear's ex-wife, Barbara Mescher Micheau, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that her former husband came home one day bragging about gluing the doors of a clinic. Michaeau, who lives in Moncks Corner, South Carolina, said Dear never talked much about Planned Parenthood, although "obviously he was against abortion."

http://lasvegassun.com...

Now can we call him a Christian Terrorists? Now can we call it an attack on an abortion clinic?
imabench
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12/2/2015 10:36:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/2/2015 10:30:01 PM, TBR wrote:
Source: Associated Press

Ex-wife says Colorado suspect vandalized another clinic
By Bruce Smith and Sadie Gurman, Associated Press

Wednesday, Dec. 2, 2015 | 1:19 p.m.

CHARLESTON, S.C. " The man accused of killing three people at a Colorado Planned Parenthood clinic left a decades-long trail of broken marriages, scant social connections and a reputation for religious zealotry that didn't match his yen for gambling and extramarital affairs.

Cause nothing says 'family values' like gambling, affairs, and divorces....

New court documents and interviews reveal Robert Lewis Dear as an occasionally violent, fundamentalist loner who was known to nurse a grudge. He had one for at least 20 years against the reproductive health organization he is accused of attacking, going so far as to put glue in the locks of a clinic in Charleston years earlier, eerily reminiscent of another gunman's efforts to glue shut a Wichita, Kansas, abortion clinic's doors before killing a doctor there in 2009. The clinic in Charleston was not a Planned Parenthood facility at the time.

But still unknown is what caused Dear, 57, to escalate from petty vandalism to the fusillade he is accused of unleashing at the Colorado Springs office, where a law enforcement official said he rambled about "no more baby parts" after his arrest.

I can think of a video/right-wing-propoganda-piece or two that probably caused it

Colorado Springs police have refused to disclose a motive for Dear's violence, but there's mounting evidence that Dear was deeply concerned about abortion.

Dear's ex-wife, Barbara Mescher Micheau, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that her former husband came home one day bragging about gluing the doors of a clinic. Michaeau, who lives in Moncks Corner, South Carolina, said Dear never talked much about Planned Parenthood, although "obviously he was against abortion."

http://lasvegassun.com...

Now can we call him a Christian Terrorists? Now can we call it an attack on an abortion clinic?

Doesn't someone have to be affiliated with an actual terrorist cell or organization to be a terrorist?
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Illegalcombatant
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12/2/2015 11:34:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/2/2015 10:36:10 PM, imabench wrote:
At 12/2/2015 10:30:01 PM, TBR wrote:
Source: Associated Press

Ex-wife says Colorado suspect vandalized another clinic
By Bruce Smith and Sadie Gurman, Associated Press

Wednesday, Dec. 2, 2015 | 1:19 p.m.

CHARLESTON, S.C. " The man accused of killing three people at a Colorado Planned Parenthood clinic left a decades-long trail of broken marriages, scant social connections and a reputation for religious zealotry that didn't match his yen for gambling and extramarital affairs.

Cause nothing says 'family values' like gambling, affairs, and divorces....

New court documents and interviews reveal Robert Lewis Dear as an occasionally violent, fundamentalist loner who was known to nurse a grudge. He had one for at least 20 years against the reproductive health organization he is accused of attacking, going so far as to put glue in the locks of a clinic in Charleston years earlier, eerily reminiscent of another gunman's efforts to glue shut a Wichita, Kansas, abortion clinic's doors before killing a doctor there in 2009. The clinic in Charleston was not a Planned Parenthood facility at the time.

But still unknown is what caused Dear, 57, to escalate from petty vandalism to the fusillade he is accused of unleashing at the Colorado Springs office, where a law enforcement official said he rambled about "no more baby parts" after his arrest.

I can think of a video/right-wing-propoganda-piece or two that probably caused it

Colorado Springs police have refused to disclose a motive for Dear's violence, but there's mounting evidence that Dear was deeply concerned about abortion.

Dear's ex-wife, Barbara Mescher Micheau, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that her former husband came home one day bragging about gluing the doors of a clinic. Michaeau, who lives in Moncks Corner, South Carolina, said Dear never talked much about Planned Parenthood, although "obviously he was against abortion."

http://lasvegassun.com...

Now can we call him a Christian Terrorists? Now can we call it an attack on an abortion clinic?

Doesn't someone have to be affiliated with an actual terrorist cell or organization to be a terrorist?

Nope.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
TBR
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12/3/2015 12:05:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago

Doesn't someone have to be affiliated with an actual terrorist cell or organization to be a terrorist?

No, but I bet that (along with 'not a true Christian') will be arguments run from the usual people.
TBR
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12/3/2015 12:08:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/2/2015 11:43:51 PM, BlackFlags wrote:
What point is the OP trying to make exactly?

Several people (including those on this site) were unwilling to accept that he was
1) Targeting PP.
2) Was in any way motivated by abortion.
3) Were not willing to accept he is a Christian.
4) Unwilling to call him a "terrorists" until these facts were cleared up.

So.... They are becoming clear (or more clear), and I am asking if they are willing to NOW say he is a Fundamentalist Christian Terrorists?
TBR
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12/3/2015 12:09:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/2/2015 11:43:51 PM, BlackFlags wrote:
What point is the OP trying to make exactly?

But, had you bothered to read, you would have seen the question I asked.

"Now can we call him a Christian Terrorists? Now can we call it an attack on an abortion clinic?"
Khaos_Mage
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12/3/2015 12:43:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/2/2015 10:30:01 PM, TBR wrote:
Source: Associated Press

Ex-wife says Colorado suspect vandalized another clinic
By Bruce Smith and Sadie Gurman, Associated Press

Wednesday, Dec. 2, 2015 | 1:19 p.m.

CHARLESTON, S.C. " The man accused of killing three people at a Colorado Planned Parenthood clinic left a decades-long trail of broken marriages, scant social connections and a reputation for religious zealotry that didn't match his yen for gambling and extramarital affairs.

New court documents and interviews reveal Robert Lewis Dear as an occasionally violent, fundamentalist loner who was known to nurse a grudge. He had one for at least 20 years against the reproductive health organization he is accused of attacking, going so far as to put glue in the locks of a clinic in Charleston years earlier, eerily reminiscent of another gunman's efforts to glue shut a Wichita, Kansas, abortion clinic's doors before killing a doctor there in 2009. The clinic in Charleston was not a Planned Parenthood facility at the time.

But still unknown is what caused Dear, 57, to escalate from petty vandalism to the fusillade he is accused of unleashing at the Colorado Springs office, where a law enforcement official said he rambled about "no more baby parts" after his arrest. Colorado Springs police have refused to disclose a motive for Dear's violence, but there's mounting evidence that Dear was deeply concerned about abortion.

Dear's ex-wife, Barbara Mescher Micheau, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that her former husband came home one day bragging about gluing the doors of a clinic. Michaeau, who lives in Moncks Corner, South Carolina, said Dear never talked much about Planned Parenthood, although "obviously he was against abortion."

http://lasvegassun.com...


Now can we call him a Christian Terrorists?
No.

Now can we call it an attack on an abortion clinic?
Obviously. I thought that was pretty obvious before.
My work here is, finally, done.
TBR
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12/3/2015 12:45:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Now can we call him a Christian Terrorists?
No.
OK. What are you waiting for then?


Now can we call it an attack on an abortion clinic?
Obviously. I thought that was pretty obvious before.

There are a number of people on the site who quested if this was just happenstance. Like, well, I just ended-up in a PP with a gun.
Khaos_Mage
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12/3/2015 12:50:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 12:45:20 AM, TBR wrote:
Now can we call him a Christian Terrorists?
No.
OK. What are you waiting for then?
An actual political motive other than wanting to change society. Or rather, a connection to between his actions and his demands.


Now can we call it an attack on an abortion clinic?
Obviously. I thought that was pretty obvious before.

There are a number of people on the site who quested if this was just happenstance. Like, well, I just ended-up in a PP with a gun.

It's a fair question, but not when he's rambling about baby parts. Just because I was fired, doesn't make my shooting of a co-worker related to my disgruntled-ness. If you catch my drift.
My work here is, finally, done.
TBR
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12/3/2015 12:55:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 12:50:10 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/3/2015 12:45:20 AM, TBR wrote:
Now can we call him a Christian Terrorists?
No.
OK. What are you waiting for then?
An actual political motive other than wanting to change society. Or rather, a connection to between his actions and his demands.


Now can we call it an attack on an abortion clinic?
Obviously. I thought that was pretty obvious before.

There are a number of people on the site who quested if this was just happenstance. Like, well, I just ended-up in a PP with a gun.

It's a fair question, but not when he's rambling about baby parts. Just because I was fired, doesn't make my shooting of a co-worker related to my disgruntled-ness. If you catch my drift.

I do. And I really want to know exactly when people are willing to accept this title. I think he fits the term very well.
Fly
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12/3/2015 1:39:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 12:08:41 AM, TBR wrote:
At 12/2/2015 11:43:51 PM, BlackFlags wrote:
What point is the OP trying to make exactly?

Several people (including those on this site) were unwilling to accept that he was
1) Targeting PP.
2) Was in any way motivated by abortion.
3) Were not willing to accept he is a Christian.
4) Unwilling to call him a "terrorists" until these facts were cleared up.

So.... They are becoming clear (or more clear), and I am asking if they are willing to NOW say he is a Fundamentalist Christian Terrorists?

I don't even know why this most recent attack on abortion clinics has to serve as proof that Christian terrorism exists in this country. All one has to do is look up "Army of God" to see that it is as real as the KKK... oh, and then there's the KKK now that I mention it..

(I am agreeing with you, btw. I just emphasize that because posters so often seem poised for disagreement, this being a debate site and all)
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
TBR
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12/3/2015 1:51:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't even know why this most recent attack on abortion clinics has to serve as proof that Christian terrorism exists in this country. All one has to do is look up "Army of God" to see that it is as real as the KKK... oh, and then there's the KKK now that I mention it..

(I am agreeing with you, btw. I just emphasize that because posters so often seem poised for disagreement, this being a debate site and all)

Army of God was very terrifying when I was a kid. Yea, they honestly scared me.
Fly
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12/3/2015 1:53:45 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 1:51:10 AM, TBR wrote:
I don't even know why this most recent attack on abortion clinics has to serve as proof that Christian terrorism exists in this country. All one has to do is look up "Army of God" to see that it is as real as the KKK... oh, and then there's the KKK now that I mention it..

(I am agreeing with you, btw. I just emphasize that because posters so often seem poised for disagreement, this being a debate site and all)

Army of God was very terrifying when I was a kid. Yea, they honestly scared me.

Were they more active in the past, or are they just less of a threat to you personally today?
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
YYW
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12/3/2015 1:56:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/2/2015 10:36:10 PM, imabench wrote:
Doesn't someone have to be affiliated with an actual terrorist cell or organization to be a terrorist?

No.
Tsar of DDO
TBR
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12/3/2015 1:58:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 1:53:45 AM, Fly wrote:
At 12/3/2015 1:51:10 AM, TBR wrote:
I don't even know why this most recent attack on abortion clinics has to serve as proof that Christian terrorism exists in this country. All one has to do is look up "Army of God" to see that it is as real as the KKK... oh, and then there's the KKK now that I mention it..

(I am agreeing with you, btw. I just emphasize that because posters so often seem poised for disagreement, this being a debate site and all)

Army of God was very terrifying when I was a kid. Yea, they honestly scared me.

Were they more active in the past, or are they just less of a threat to you personally today?

They are not as active, and I am not the targit I was before.
Khaos_Mage
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12/3/2015 1:59:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 12:55:31 AM, TBR wrote:

I do. And I really want to know exactly when people are willing to accept this title. I think he fits the term very well.

Terrorizing people =/= terrorist
If I go around killing women for being filthy whores (or go around killing only filthy whores a la Jack the Ripper), am I a terrorist? No, even though I would invoke terror in some.

To me, I view "ist"s as titles, and I am low to offer them so easily. I don't like it when people call GreenPeace eco-terrorists, as their terrorizing is unaffiliated with their political motivations. I might grant leeway to the term if, in the act of terrorizing, they are trying to illicit a change that is more than affecting a few entities. For example, if eco-terrorists were trying to scare all oil companies to do something instead of just focusing on one, or if an anti-abortionist is trying to run ALL of the clinics out of the state, as opposed to just one. Anonymous could be considered terrorists, but I don't know much about them.

I find this loose association to be a case of special pleading, since I can see the definition you are trying to use for a terrorist to define many, many people, including protesters, abusive partners, and even police.
My work here is, finally, done.
TBR
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12/3/2015 2:04:27 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 1:59:43 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/3/2015 12:55:31 AM, TBR wrote:

I do. And I really want to know exactly when people are willing to accept this title. I think he fits the term very well.

Terrorizing people =/= terrorist
If I go around killing women for being filthy whores (or go around killing only filthy whores a la Jack the Ripper), am I a terrorist? No, even though I would invoke terror in some.

To me, I view "ist"s as titles, and I am low to offer them so easily. I don't like it when people call GreenPeace eco-terrorists, as their terrorizing is unaffiliated with their political motivations. I might grant leeway to the term if, in the act of terrorizing, they are trying to illicit a change that is more than affecting a few entities. For example, if eco-terrorists were trying to scare all oil companies to do something instead of just focusing on one, or if an anti-abortionist is trying to run ALL of the clinics out of the state, as opposed to just one. Anonymous could be considered terrorists, but I don't know much about them.

I find this loose association to be a case of special pleading, since I can see the definition you are trying to use for a terrorist to define many, many people, including protesters, abusive partners, and even police.

are you saying (trying to say) that this sort of activity is NOT to scare ALL people associated with abortion? Please...
TBR
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12/3/2015 2:05:26 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't mean that to sound to snarky, but.... Let me try it like this. Do you think he only had a problem with abortion in Colorado? Only at THIS clinic?
Khaos_Mage
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12/3/2015 2:11:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:04:27 AM, TBR wrote:

are you saying (trying to say) that this sort of activity is NOT to scare ALL people associated with abortion? Please...

First, I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Clinics, yes. Patients, who are the real culprits, no. Ex-doctors, no. Clinics in far away places. No.

Second, the core issue is: was the reason he killed them to affect ALL clinics? That is the key factor. In fact, I'd prefer to take it further and say the key factor is: did he kill to coerce government to act?
My work here is, finally, done.
TBR
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12/3/2015 2:14:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:11:13 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:04:27 AM, TBR wrote:

are you saying (trying to say) that this sort of activity is NOT to scare ALL people associated with abortion? Please...

First, I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Clinics, yes. Patients, who are the real culprits, no. Ex-doctors, no. Clinics in far away places. No.

Second, the core issue is: was the reason he killed them to affect ALL clinics? That is the key factor. In fact, I'd prefer to take it further and say the key factor is: did he kill to coerce government to act?

OK. In similar fashion, when it becomes clear he wanted to, or is concerned about stopping abortion in a larger scope than at this clinic, or city, or state, will you THEN call it terrorism? If he says ~ "I want the law to change" how about then?
Khaos_Mage
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12/3/2015 2:15:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:05:26 AM, TBR wrote:
I don't mean that to sound to snarky, but.... Let me try it like this. Do you think he only had a problem with abortion in Colorado? Only at THIS clinic?

Let me try it this way.
Let's say I am a racist. Let's say my neighbor is black. Naturally, I don't like him.
I go out of my way to make his life miserable. I take his mail. I put lye on his yard. I call the cops any time he does anything that could possibly be an ordinance violation, like digging in his backyard. I get progressively worse. I run over his mailbox. I throw a brick through his window. I "forgot" to put my car in park and crashed into his car. Then, he starts dating a white woman. I flip, and ultimately kill him.

Am I a terrorist?
I clearly terrorized him. I clearly have an issue with his race. I clearly killed him because of it.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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12/3/2015 2:18:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:14:18 AM, TBR wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:11:13 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:04:27 AM, TBR wrote:

are you saying (trying to say) that this sort of activity is NOT to scare ALL people associated with abortion? Please...

First, I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Clinics, yes. Patients, who are the real culprits, no. Ex-doctors, no. Clinics in far away places. No.

Second, the core issue is: was the reason he killed them to affect ALL clinics? That is the key factor. In fact, I'd prefer to take it further and say the key factor is: did he kill to coerce government to act?

OK. In similar fashion, when it becomes clear he wanted to, or is concerned about stopping abortion in a larger scope than at this clinic, or city, or state, will you THEN call it terrorism? If he says ~ "I want the law to change" how about then?

A clear cut example would be: I'm going to kill doctors until the government shuts them down.

Are the people who stand outside and protest and harass those going into clinics EVERY SINGLE DAY terrorists?
My work here is, finally, done.
TBR
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12/3/2015 2:19:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:15:31 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:05:26 AM, TBR wrote:
I don't mean that to sound to snarky, but.... Let me try it like this. Do you think he only had a problem with abortion in Colorado? Only at THIS clinic?

Let me try it this way.
Let's say I am a racist. Let's say my neighbor is black. Naturally, I don't like him.
I go out of my way to make his life miserable. I take his mail. I put lye on his yard. I call the cops any time he does anything that could possibly be an ordinance violation, like digging in his backyard. I get progressively worse. I run over his mailbox. I throw a brick through his window. I "forgot" to put my car in park and crashed into his car. Then, he starts dating a white woman. I flip, and ultimately kill him.

Am I a terrorist?
I clearly terrorized him. I clearly have an issue with his race. I clearly killed him because of it.

OK Wait. He was not interacting with people he had a personal issue with. He was killing people he had a political difference with, right? That is so not the same situation you describe.

Do all Islamic terrorists only target Americans that personally irritate them?
Khaos_Mage
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12/3/2015 2:30:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:19:07 AM, TBR wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:15:31 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/3/2015 2:05:26 AM, TBR wrote:
I don't mean that to sound to snarky, but.... Let me try it like this. Do you think he only had a problem with abortion in Colorado? Only at THIS clinic?

Let me try it this way.
Let's say I am a racist. Let's say my neighbor is black. Naturally, I don't like him.
I go out of my way to make his life miserable. I take his mail. I put lye on his yard. I call the cops any time he does anything that could possibly be an ordinance violation, like digging in his backyard. I get progressively worse. I run over his mailbox. I throw a brick through his window. I "forgot" to put my car in park and crashed into his car. Then, he starts dating a white woman. I flip, and ultimately kill him.

Am I a terrorist?
I clearly terrorized him. I clearly have an issue with his race. I clearly killed him because of it.

OK Wait. He was not interacting with people he had a personal issue with. He was killing people he had a political difference with, right? That is so not the same situation you describe.
Well, to be fair, he choose who he targeted. Did he kill any woman and their men who were going to, were in the process of, or have had abortions?
Why are his seemingly rare outbursts any more terrorizing than the people on the streets in front of the clinic day in and day out? Are these protesters terrorists as well?
Are the people who make idle threats and never carry out any actions terrorists?

Similarly, is the police terrorists for enforcing a law to horrifically punish those who consume certain plants, simply because, at one time, a majority of people wanted to exercise their force onto others to change society?

Do all Islamic terrorists only target Americans that personally irritate them?
Ah, but what is their goal? To get America to stop. The country, not just society.
What was the IRS bombers desire? A political change.
What was this guy's? Damnit, don't provide abortions, I tell you what.
My work here is, finally, done.
TBR
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12/3/2015 2:38:15 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
OK Wait. He was not interacting with people he had a personal issue with. He was killing people he had a political difference with, right? That is so not the same situation you describe.
Well, to be fair, he choose who he targeted. Did he kill any woman and their men who were going to, were in the process of, or have had abortions?
He killed a woman, yes. We have no idea if she was there for an abortion.

Why are his seemingly rare outbursts any more terrorizing than the people on the streets in front of the clinic day in and day out? Are these protesters terrorists as well?
Are the people who make idle threats and never carry out any actions terrorists?

Yes they are. They use intimidation and often violence for political reasons. That fits the definition.


Similarly, is the police terrorists for enforcing a law to horrifically punish those who consume certain plants, simply because, at one time, a majority of people wanted to exercise their force onto others to change society?

We could discuss this, however, it is a can of worms.


Do all Islamic terrorists only target Americans that personally irritate them?
Ah, but what is their goal? To get America to stop. The country, not just society.
What was the IRS bombers desire? A political change.
What was this guy's? Damnit, don't provide abortions, I tell you what.

Yea. How are you so... well stuck on the idea that it was THIS clinic that he was pissed at? Do you want, as I have said, him to say more? That he wanted to stop abortion, or do you think he is going to say, "no PP and abortion is fine, just not in Colorado". That seems absurd.
Khaos_Mage
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12/3/2015 2:50:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 2:38:15 AM, TBR wrote:
OK Wait. He was not interacting with people he had a personal issue with. He was killing people he had a political difference with, right? That is so not the same situation you describe.
Well, to be fair, he choose who he targeted. Did he kill any woman and their men who were going to, were in the process of, or have had abortions?
He killed a woman, yes. We have no idea if she was there for an abortion.
Or if she just simply got in the way. But, it really doesn't matter.

Why are his seemingly rare outbursts any more terrorizing than the people on the streets in front of the clinic day in and day out? Are these protesters terrorists as well?
Are the people who make idle threats and never carry out any actions terrorists?

Yes they are. They use intimidation and often violence for political reasons. That fits the definition.

By this logic, Black Lives Matter and Occupy Wall Street are terrorists. If you agree with this statement, I applaud your consistency and intellectual integrity, but still disagree with you.


Similarly, is the police terrorists for enforcing a law to horrifically punish those who consume certain plants, simply because, at one time, a majority of people wanted to exercise their force onto others to change society?

We could discuss this, however, it is a can of worms.


Do all Islamic terrorists only target Americans that personally irritate them?
Ah, but what is their goal? To get America to stop. The country, not just society.
What was the IRS bombers desire? A political change.
What was this guy's? Damnit, don't provide abortions, I tell you what.

Yea. How are you so... well stuck on the idea that it was THIS clinic that he was pissed at? Do you want, as I have said, him to say more? That he wanted to stop abortion, or do you think he is going to say, "no PP and abortion is fine, just not in Colorado". That seems absurd.

I'm sure you know more about this than I do.
I'm not hung up on that he was mad at this clinic. I'm hung up on the fact he only ACTED on this clinic. Was he planning to go shoot up the PP in the next town, or was his plan to go home and hang his hat and pat himself on his back?
Yes, he has an issue with ALL clinics. That doesn't mean he had any intention, ability, or even desire, to terrorize them. As far I know, he limited his actions to one clinic.
My work here is, finally, done.
TBR
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12/3/2015 3:00:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm not hung up on that he was mad at this clinic. I'm hung up on the fact he only ACTED on this clinic. Was he planning to go shoot up the PP in the next town, or was his plan to go home and hang his hat and pat himself on his back?
Yes, he has an issue with ALL clinics. That doesn't mean he had any intention, ability, or even desire, to terrorize them. As far I know, he limited his actions to one clinic.

Do any terrorists (that we commonly call terrorists) have the ability to kill ALL of their desired targets? Do they have to to become terrorists? Your bar seems impossible, and well outside the definition of the word. When a terrorist's explodes himself, he has affected only the area he occupied. Not terrorists to you because he was unable to effect ALL places where people he disagrees with occupy?
TBR
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12/3/2015 3:34:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/3/2015 3:10:59 AM, Dilara wrote:
It was Christian terrorism on an abortion clinic.

Excellent! I applaud your intellectual honesty.