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The Saudi Government is an ISIS that Endures

YYW
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12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.
Tsar of DDO
1harderthanyouthink
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12/4/2015 2:21:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Treating evils the same has no place in our world.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Emilrose
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12/4/2015 6:36:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I agree. Any kind of reform or change in approach is significantly unlikely to happen though. After all, the place just happens to be *very* conveniently useful for oil. Thus the strategic value that the U.S gains from Saudi Arabia simply overrides any potential 'humanitarian' concerns.

The points you make about Hussein and Gaddafi are absolutely relevant, but only really work if we're keeping to premise that the U.S and its allies have militarily intervened in the Middle East *because* of 'dictatorship' and the non-existence of so-called 'democracy', which, in my opinion, is absolutely not the case. Though they were indeed violent and oppressive (still arguably better than other alternatives however), the primary reason(s) for their removal was the non-cooperation with the West and failure to adhere to what it wanted--which again, wasn't necessarily more freedom and less dictatorship, but influence and complete submission.

This is precisely what the issue with Assad is, and as usual, the U.S and its allies are acting under the guise of endorsing democracy when really all they want is a puppet and someone who works in full cohesion with them--especially as regards oil.
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beng100
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12/4/2015 7:17:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.

Agree the Saudi Arabia absolute monarchy is an extremist Islamic State that has an appaling human rights record and imposes its extremist religiously motivated laws on its citizens. An example of its barbaric extremist policy is the ban on women driving cars. The stupidity of this policy is beyond belief. I don't however believe military intervention is the correct approach. I would advocate not provoking conflict if possible and in my view an invasion and occupation of Saudi Arabia would be much worse for its citizens then the current oppressive restrictive extremist dictatorship. I would only consider an invasion if a natural uprising led to a Syria like situation. It needs to be clear that intervention will improve things for a countries citizens before it is undertaken.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/4/2015 11:37:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.

- The title should include also the US Government, the Israeli Government...
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
YYW
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12/4/2015 11:39:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 11:37:52 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.

- The title should include also the US Government, the Israeli Government...

Hardly. Neither the United States nor Israel even come remotely close to the human rights abuses that the Saudi government does.
Tsar of DDO
Yassine
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12/4/2015 11:40:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 11:39:09 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/4/2015 11:37:52 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.

- The title should include also the US Government, the Israeli Government...

Hardly. Neither the United States nor Israel even come remotely close to the human rights abuses that the Saudi government does.

- Of course not. Those two are far beyond abusers of human rights than the Saudi Government.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
YYW
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12/4/2015 11:42:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 11:40:25 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/4/2015 11:39:09 PM, YYW wrote:
At 12/4/2015 11:37:52 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.

- The title should include also the US Government, the Israeli Government...

Hardly. Neither the United States nor Israel even come remotely close to the human rights abuses that the Saudi government does.

- Of course not. Those two are far beyond abusers of human rights than the Saudi Government.

*rolls eyes*
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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12/4/2015 11:44:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yassine, if you want to bitch and moan about the US and Israel make a separate thread. As I'm sure you read in the OP, this is not a place to equivocate between the US and Israel and Saudi Arabia. The comparison is objectively idiotic, and while you're free to entertain whatever absurd idea you want, it's beyond the scope of the OP, so troll elsewhere.
Tsar of DDO
Yassine
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12/4/2015 11:44:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 11:42:54 PM, YYW wrote:

*rolls eyes*

- The Saudi Government doesn't kill children in broad daylight.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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Emilrose
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12/5/2015 12:10:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 11:44:43 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/4/2015 11:42:54 PM, YYW wrote:

*rolls eyes*

- The Saudi Government doesn't kill children in broad daylight.

Both sides have killed children, though I admit and acknowledge that Israel, whether purposely or not, has showed a lack of disregard towards human life--at least Palestinian.

However, this mainly happens when Israel itself is provoked or attacked in some form. Very rarely (if ever) does Israel suddenly and without reason decide to specifically target Palestinian children. Generally this occurs when Hamas use rockets, when uprisings take place, and when Israeli civilians themselves are potentially in danger.

I'd actually note that Israel's conduct on a wider scale is worse than what it is regarding the Palestinians. In terms of the *entire* Middle East, Israel has been irresponsible and selfish; advocating exclusively for its own interests with little regard for other people in other countries. But this applies to the U.K, the U.S, and France--and many other nations.
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Midnight1131
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12/5/2015 12:48:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

When Saudi Arabia loses their assets they'll be finished. I have no idea how the west can even think about being allies with them.
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Emilrose
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12/5/2015 12:57:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 12:48:02 AM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

When Saudi Arabia loses their assets they'll be finished. I have no idea how the west can even think about being allies with them.

*cough*, oil.

I agree on the first point though, in losing their main source of financial income, they'd fall apart.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
Yassine
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12/5/2015 1:01:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 12:10:10 AM, Emilrose wrote:

Both sides have killed children, though I admit and acknowledge that Israel, whether purposely or not, has showed a lack of disregard towards human life--at least Palestinian.

However, this mainly happens when Israel itself is provoked or attacked in some form. Very rarely (if ever) does Israel suddenly and without reason decide to specifically target Palestinian children. Generally this occurs when Hamas use rockets, when uprisings take place, and when Israeli civilians themselves are potentially in danger.

- I don't wanna argue with you, but I don't think that's even remotely true!

I'd actually note that Israel's conduct on a wider scale is worse than what it is regarding the Palestinians. In terms of the *entire* Middle East, Israel has been irresponsible and selfish; advocating exclusively for its own interests with little regard for other people in other countries. But this applies to the U.K, the U.S, and France--and many other nations.

- I don't particularly disagree with this. I just loath Hypocrisy more than anything.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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bballcrook21
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12/5/2015 1:04:05 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.

I've been saying it for quite some time now. If Saudi Arabia, or any middle eastern nation had no oil, they would either have to moderate their Sharia Law or be thrown under the rug of nothingness like their neighbors.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
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12/5/2015 1:05:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 11:44:43 PM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/4/2015 11:42:54 PM, YYW wrote:

*rolls eyes*

- The Saudi Government doesn't kill children in broad daylight.

There's a big difference with terminating the life of a fetus under parental consent and sentencing a man to 10 years in prison and hundreds of leashes because he spoke out against some perverted Muslim Imam.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
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12/5/2015 1:06:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The Muslim world is nothing without oil.

If there was no oil in the Middle East, it would fall into two scenarios:

Either it becomes progressive, takes out its conservative social policies and lack of recognition for basic human rights,

Or, it falls under perpetual poverty and uselessness and then slowly fades away into history.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
tajshar2k
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12/5/2015 1:12:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Only idiots and muslims will say the U.S is worse than Saudi Arabia. It's not even worth replying to these people.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
tajshar2k
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12/5/2015 1:17:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.

Saudi Arabia is the personification of savagery and barbarism, and deserves to be dealt in the harshest method possible. The only problem is, if the U.S tried to get the Saudi King out of power, this likely will create a power vacuum like it did in Iraq.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
bballcrook21
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12/5/2015 1:18:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 1:17:17 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.

Saudi Arabia is the personification of savagery and barbarism, and deserves to be dealt in the harshest method possible. The only problem is, if the U.S tried to get the Saudi King out of power, this likely will create a power vacuum like it did in Iraq.

Now extermination of the filth that is Islam doesn't seem like a bad idea does it?
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
tajshar2k
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12/5/2015 1:25:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 1:18:17 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/5/2015 1:17:17 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.

Saudi Arabia is the personification of savagery and barbarism, and deserves to be dealt in the harshest method possible. The only problem is, if the U.S tried to get the Saudi King out of power, this likely will create a power vacuum like it did in Iraq.

Now extermination of the filth that is Islam doesn't seem like a bad idea does it?

Exterminating the religion: Yes
Exterminating it's followers: No

I don't think we should just ban Islam or anything, but it should be condemned, and people need to realize it's a fu*cked up, and move on.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
YYW
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12/5/2015 1:26:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 1:17:17 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.

Saudi Arabia is the personification of savagery and barbarism, and deserves to be dealt in the harshest method possible. The only problem is, if the U.S tried to get the Saudi King out of power, this likely will create a power vacuum like it did in Iraq.

I think you are exactly right. Like, precisely, exactly right.
Tsar of DDO
bballcrook21
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12/5/2015 1:37:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 1:26:55 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/5/2015 1:17:17 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 12/4/2015 2:15:27 PM, YYW wrote:
http://www.bbc.com...

Read that link.

We have all known that Saudi Arabia's perverse version of sharia law is offensive to the very concept of civilized society, intrudes on the human rights of virtually all Saudis, and is on par with the kind of barbarism you would not even expect from the Spanish during the inquisition.

This is a government that kills gays because they can, stones or floggs women who are raped, executes children who question their government, and kills people who even can be accused of challenging the government on trumped up charges.

Theirs is a radical perversion of Islam, their government is morally bankrupt, their leadership and government are analogous to (and functionally equivalent to) ISIS, and the country's legitimacy is on par with ISIS as well.

If there were EVER a country that the United States should invade and occupy indefinitely, and implement a foreign imposed regime change, it's Saudi Arabia. Assad doesn't even come close to being as evil, malevolent and sick as the current Saudi King who should have met by now the same fate at least as Hussien, if not Gaddafi.

Saudi Arabia is the personification of savagery and barbarism, and deserves to be dealt in the harshest method possible. The only problem is, if the U.S tried to get the Saudi King out of power, this likely will create a power vacuum like it did in Iraq.

I think you are exactly right. Like, precisely, exactly right.

Saudi Arabia"s courts continue to impose sentences of flogging as punishment for many offences, often following unfair trials. Besides Raif Badawi, in the past two years the human rights defenders Mikhlif bin Daham al-Shammari and Omar al-Sa"id were sentenced to 200 and 300 lashes, respectively, and Filipino domestic worker Ruth Cosrojas was sentenced to 300. Amputations and cross-amputations are also carried out as punishment for some crimes.

This simple disdain for the lives of non-violent human beings is the reason as to why I view Saudi Arabia in such a bad light. It is the capital of corruption. The fact that such a wealthy nation with such influence, both politically and militarily, is able to carry out these heinous punishments is purely horrifying.

It is time to start fighting for righteousness rather than respect for the sovereignty of others. The problem is, like Taj mentioned, if we were to depose the Saudi Arabian monarchy, there would be a great power struggle. It could work though, since the nation is much more stable.

I've said it before and I will state it again, Saudi Arabia is nothing without oil. Once that resource is gone, the only act their government can resort to in order to stay stable and successful will be to abdicate a great amount of power and give it to the people.

The country needs heavy criminal justice reform though.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
BlackFlags
Posts: 904
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12/5/2015 1:43:14 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/4/2015 3:40:22 PM, Romanii wrote:
Agreed. They need to be wiped off the face of the planet.
Yemen seems to be having a good start, wiping them off the face of the Arabian southern provinces. The Republican Guard and Houthis have taken lots of territory inside three Saudi provinces, while the rest of the world pays attention to ISIS. Makes you wonder why we consider groups like Al-Nusra and Houthis enemies, given the enemy of your enemy should actually be your friend.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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12/5/2015 4:01:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 1:18:17 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/5/2015 1:17:17 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
Saudi Arabia is the personification of savagery and barbarism, and deserves to be dealt in the harshest method possible. The only problem is, if the U.S tried to get the Saudi King out of power, this likely will create a power vacuum like it did in Iraq.

Now extermination of the filth that is Islam doesn't seem like a bad idea does it?

LOL, as if Saudi Arabia is representative of Islam in the slightest. Read a history book :\
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
YYW
Posts: 36,339
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12/5/2015 4:06:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 4:01:39 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/5/2015 1:18:17 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/5/2015 1:17:17 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
Saudi Arabia is the personification of savagery and barbarism, and deserves to be dealt in the harshest method possible. The only problem is, if the U.S tried to get the Saudi King out of power, this likely will create a power vacuum like it did in Iraq.

Now extermination of the filth that is Islam doesn't seem like a bad idea does it?

LOL, as if Saudi Arabia is representative of Islam in the slightest. Read a history book :\

I'd agree with you there. Saudi Arabia is to Islam what the Spanish Inquisition is to Christianity.
Tsar of DDO
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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12/5/2015 4:16:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 4:06:06 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/5/2015 4:01:39 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/5/2015 1:18:17 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/5/2015 1:17:17 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
Saudi Arabia is the personification of savagery and barbarism, and deserves to be dealt in the harshest method possible. The only problem is, if the U.S tried to get the Saudi King out of power, this likely will create a power vacuum like it did in Iraq.

Now extermination of the filth that is Islam doesn't seem like a bad idea does it?

LOL, as if Saudi Arabia is representative of Islam in the slightest. Read a history book :\

I'd agree with you there. Saudi Arabia is to Islam what the Spanish Inquisition is to Christianity.

Yeah, it's a remarkably apt comparison, seeing as the House of Saud was attempting to inflict their little pet heresy on the entire peninsula, and is now pumping it into every power vacuum that they can find now that they're established. I think that we are allies with them because of that; we know that they sow chaos and cripple the region, we can project power better under those circumstances, and the lives lost to terrorism and instability are seen as acceptable collateral damage.

I hope that changes soon; though the alternatives are looking slim. They absorbed so much of the House of Rashid into them, scattered the rest, and the Hashemites are reduced to Jordan. It's mostly the Al ash-Sheikh whom I hope to mysteriously die en masse. The House of Saud may be able to break with Salafism if someone managed to remove them from power (violently or otherwise).
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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12/5/2015 4:18:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/5/2015 4:01:39 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/5/2015 1:18:17 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/5/2015 1:17:17 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
Saudi Arabia is the personification of savagery and barbarism, and deserves to be dealt in the harshest method possible. The only problem is, if the U.S tried to get the Saudi King out of power, this likely will create a power vacuum like it did in Iraq.

Now extermination of the filth that is Islam doesn't seem like a bad idea does it?

LOL, as if Saudi Arabia is representative of Islam in the slightest. Read a history book :\

It is representative of Islam. The government of Saudi Arabia employs quite a lot of Sharia Law. It rules by decree and its judicial system is Sharia Law based.

If I were to read a book about Islam, and then come back and say that there have been empires that were even worse than Saudi Arabia that represented Islam, you would tell me to read another, until I got to the pedophile Muhammad himself.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
YYW
Posts: 36,339
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12/5/2015 4:35:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think that to discuss Islam, on the level that would suggest that Islam as a faith has certain qualities, is disingenuous. What matters is what people who hold themselves out as Muslims actually *do*. Their beliefs are irrelevant, to me at least. And more specifically, it's not only what Muslims *do* in any general sense, as it is what Muslims do *because they are Muslim, in service of their religion.*

And there is a very real crisis in the Muslim world, which I think that many are conscious of. The reason I know they're conscious of it is because Muslims, in general, are intensely committed to preserving Islam's public image... which turns into a subtle war between those Muslims who say "these people (e.g. ISIS) are not Muslims, because if they were they would not be doing what they're doing."

I understand, on a visceral level, why Muslims do that. It's not because they're Muslim, so much as because they're people, and they are ashamed of what so many members of their faith do in the name of their god. I would be similarly ashamed if, for example, there was a similar level of violence in Christianity.

The other way that Muslims try to preserve their faith's image (and again, this is just what people do, it's not unique to Muslims... it's just that the reason for their taking this action has to do with the impact to their faith's world credibility) by comparing Islam's atrocities to historical atrocities waged by people in other religions (Christianity is their favorite to equivocate with, Hinduism takes its fair share of hate too; Islam does not compare itself to Judaism though, because to do so would be to, in their view, demean Islam). This is probably the weakest effort, because as we all learned in kindergarten, two wrongs don't make a right. It is entirely irrelevant that historical Christians did nasty things to, for example, other Christians or the world at large.

Now, there may be a shift towards a similar kind of perverse and militant brand of fundamentalist Christianity in the works, as is evidenced by that far-right wing nut job who attacked an abortion clinic in Colorado. That, however, appears as much political as it is religious; it's definitely terrorism, though. But I digress.

The point to this is that Islam, both within and beyond Saudi Arabia, is in a state of existential crisis, because while many Muslims are peaceful, many others are anything but peaceful, and the line between who is peaceful and who is not can be impossible to figure out before it's too late. That's why, I think, you're seeing the kind of reactions from Muslims in response to what happened in California: they are irate, ashamed and disappointed --as any group of people would, in response to any member of their group doing something this horrible.

I have many Muslim friends, and all of them... it's the same thing. "Please don't be Muslim. Please don't be Muslim. Please don't be Muslim. Fvck..." And you can't escape that. It's like carrying a weight around with you, because that's a part of your culture, and you love your culture, but you hate that aspect of it, because you know that no matter what some radicals say, that it's wrong.

What is especially good, I think, and promising, for many reasons, is the level of cooperation between many Imams and other Muslim religious leaders and the United States government, to watch out for danger signs. That infrastructure, that human and ground level engagement, is critical for keeping Americans (of all nationalities) safe.

It is for that reason that, I think, Americans have to be especially concerned with preserving the integrity of those relationships, and not making carte blanche statements like "All muslims are terrorists!" and the like is not only the right thing to do, it's also the pragmatic thing to do, on a macro level and a micro level.
Tsar of DDO