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Two thirds of GOP primary voters....

ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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12/9/2015 6:12:19 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
.... support Donald Trump's proposed ban on Muslims entering the country, says a recent Bloomberg poll.

"Almost two-thirds of likely 2016 Republican primary voters favor Donald Trump's call to temporarily ban Muslims from entering the U.S., while more than a third say it makes them more likely to vote for him."

[http://www.bloomberg.com...]

I haven't had time to read through the methodology, so it's possible--and hopefully this is true--that this is all nonsense. Trump voters have surprised me before, though.

Thoughts?
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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12/9/2015 6:17:45 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
From the methodology--which for some reason I can't copy and paste:

"Purple Strategies conducted a national overnight poll of 605 likely general election voters on December 8, 2015. The poll was conducted online, using an opt-in nationally representative panel."

[http://www.scribd.com...]

The questions couldn't be clearer, and the margin of error is only +/- 4, so both of those check out. It's also, supposedly, representative, though the fact that people could "opt in" begs the question of whether the pre-opt-in sample, but not the final sample, was actually representative.
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thett3
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12/9/2015 7:05:44 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
He forced his opponents to shill for Islamic immigration which the base clearly hates. Trump became the GOP nominee as soon as his opponents reacted exactly the way he wanted them to.

The only question now is how will he bait Clinton in the general election and will it work?
DDO Vice President

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"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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12/9/2015 11:05:14 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/9/2015 7:05:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
He forced his opponents to shill for Islamic immigration which the base clearly hates. Trump became the GOP nominee as soon as his opponents reacted exactly the way he wanted them to.

The only question now is how will he bait Clinton in the general election and will it work?

lol.

But, really, dude.. this is fcking nuts. I need someone to refute this poll ASAP, lest I start to actually believe it, and consequently lose all faith in my country.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/9/2015 11:13:02 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
What's wrong with a temporary ban? Is a 48 hour ban to access the situation, really that harmful?
thett3
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12/9/2015 11:16:07 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/9/2015 11:05:14 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 12/9/2015 7:05:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
He forced his opponents to shill for Islamic immigration which the base clearly hates. Trump became the GOP nominee as soon as his opponents reacted exactly the way he wanted them to.

The only question now is how will he bait Clinton in the general election and will it work?

lol.

But, really, dude.. this is fcking nuts. I need someone to refute this poll ASAP, lest I start to actually believe it, and consequently lose all faith in my country.

The majority of the GOP, a plurality of independents, and a significant minority of democrats want immigration decreased (http://www.pewresearch.org...). Considering that 2/3rds of Republicans want to severely restrict immigration anyway and muslim immigrants seem to be a high risk population who just committed two major terrorist attacks on western nations in less than a month it doesn't seem that surprising that these numbers are the way they are. The only surprising aspect is that the proposal gets such low support among independents, but I suspect that's in a large part due to the media sh!tshow. Had this poll been taken before Trump made this into an issue I suspect the numbers would be far higher.

I'm serious when I say that this won Trump the nomination. He baited the other candidates into shilling for muslim immigration when it was incredibly obvious that the base did not want that. What will he bait Clinton into doing?
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Skepsikyma
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12/10/2015 3:29:51 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/9/2015 11:05:14 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 12/9/2015 7:05:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
He forced his opponents to shill for Islamic immigration which the base clearly hates. Trump became the GOP nominee as soon as his opponents reacted exactly the way he wanted them to.

The only question now is how will he bait Clinton in the general election and will it work?

lol.

But, really, dude.. this is fcking nuts. I need someone to refute this poll ASAP, lest I start to actually believe it, and consequently lose all faith in my country.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is accurate. The staggering ignorance when it comes to Islam is systemic in this country, and reactionary idiocy has long been a national pastime.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
YYW
Posts: 36,263
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12/10/2015 3:44:41 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/9/2015 11:16:07 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:05:14 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 12/9/2015 7:05:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
He forced his opponents to shill for Islamic immigration which the base clearly hates. Trump became the GOP nominee as soon as his opponents reacted exactly the way he wanted them to.

The only question now is how will he bait Clinton in the general election and will it work?

lol.

But, really, dude.. this is fcking nuts. I need someone to refute this poll ASAP, lest I start to actually believe it, and consequently lose all faith in my country.

The majority of the GOP, a plurality of independents, and a significant minority of democrats want immigration decreased (http://www.pewresearch.org...). Considering that 2/3rds of Republicans want to severely restrict immigration anyway and muslim immigrants seem to be a high risk population who just committed two major terrorist attacks on western nations in less than a month it doesn't seem that surprising that these numbers are the way they are. The only surprising aspect is that the proposal gets such low support among independents, but I suspect that's in a large part due to the media sh!tshow. Had this poll been taken before Trump made this into an issue I suspect the numbers would be far higher.

I'm serious when I say that this won Trump the nomination. He baited the other candidates into shilling for muslim immigration when it was incredibly obvious that the base did not want that. What will he bait Clinton into doing?

He will bait her into doing anything and everything that he conceivably can...

The thing is that Hillary Clinton (unlike every other Republican politician in this country, apparently, except Ted Cruz who... I mean, really... just did exactly the right thing here) is both smart enough to outsmart Trump's mind games, and she is pretty good at playing them herself.

The difference between Trump and the field is that they're all fragile, frail, and unable to adapt to changing circumstances. Hillary, in contrast, has been swimming in floods since 1992. She's going to be wildly more able to take on Trump than anyone else.... so we'll see.

But if I had to guess... he's going to hit Benghazi hard, the emails, and any conceivable thing else his investigators (which I'm sure he's hired in droves by now) can find. I'm sure, beyond that, that he's got a war chest of secrets that he's already dug up that he's just waiting to release (I mean, you don't go into war with the expectation that you're going to only start preparing on the day of the battle).

The only thing I can specifically say is that he is going to have, probably, a team of psychological profilers sort through every conceivable aspect of her life, and he is going to find every point of weakness that he can, and he's just going to nail her at every one of those points... bit by bit. He'll start out gradually, and then he'll save the best stuff until right before the election.

And she'll do the same thing, of course...
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Geogeer
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12/10/2015 4:21:24 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 3:29:51 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:05:14 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 12/9/2015 7:05:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
He forced his opponents to shill for Islamic immigration which the base clearly hates. Trump became the GOP nominee as soon as his opponents reacted exactly the way he wanted them to.

The only question now is how will he bait Clinton in the general election and will it work?

lol.

But, really, dude.. this is fcking nuts. I need someone to refute this poll ASAP, lest I start to actually believe it, and consequently lose all faith in my country.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is accurate. The staggering ignorance when it comes to Islam is systemic in this country, and reactionary idiocy has long been a national pastime.

Yet you have Muslims who reinforce that opinion.
Skepsikyma
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12/10/2015 4:35:59 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 4:21:24 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 12/10/2015 3:29:51 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:05:14 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 12/9/2015 7:05:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
He forced his opponents to shill for Islamic immigration which the base clearly hates. Trump became the GOP nominee as soon as his opponents reacted exactly the way he wanted them to.

The only question now is how will he bait Clinton in the general election and will it work?

lol.

But, really, dude.. this is fcking nuts. I need someone to refute this poll ASAP, lest I start to actually believe it, and consequently lose all faith in my country.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is accurate. The staggering ignorance when it comes to Islam is systemic in this country, and reactionary idiocy has long been a national pastime.

Yet you have Muslims who reinforce that opinion.

I don't listen to angry young ex-Muslims who have left the religion when it comes to Islam for the same reason that I don't listen to angry young ex-Christians who have left the religion when it comes to Christianity: their views are often simplistic, fueled by tangential rebellions against parental and societal authority, and colored by the conflict which they endured while leaving those religions. When I want to learn about Islam, or Christianity, I read one of the thousands of educated, historically literate people who have written on them over centuries of human history. I find it surprising that you, who have no doubt had to fight the same sort of wearying battle against ardent, fresh 'New Atheist' types would be so eager to listen to someone cut of the same cloth so long as they are criticizing another religion. The fact of the matter is that it is very fashionable, even lucrative, to criticize Christianity from a place of ignorance. It has been for years. It is just recently becoming more fashionable to do the same to Islam, and, as someone who has been reading about Islam and Middle Eastern history for over a decade, I am not going to take the word of some bitter women who may well be jumping on a bandwagon over the concurrent opinions of both Western and Islamic authorities over several centuries.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
lannan13
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12/10/2015 4:39:45 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/9/2015 6:12:19 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
.... support Donald Trump's proposed ban on Muslims entering the country, says a recent Bloomberg poll.

"Almost two-thirds of likely 2016 Republican primary voters favor Donald Trump's call to temporarily ban Muslims from entering the U.S., while more than a third say it makes them more likely to vote for him."

[http://www.bloomberg.com...]

I haven't had time to read through the methodology, so it's possible--and hopefully this is true--that this is all nonsense. Trump voters have surprised me before, though.

Thoughts?

God, I guess I'm appart of the 1/3 of the sane Republican voters. No one in their right mind would support such a fascist presidential canidate.
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Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,070
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12/10/2015 4:41:23 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
A ban on Muslims in general is not constitutional. That having been said, a temporary ban on immigrants from Syria and northern Iraq would probably prevent some terror attacks.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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thett3
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12/10/2015 4:47:37 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 3:44:41 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:16:07 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:05:14 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 12/9/2015 7:05:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
He forced his opponents to shill for Islamic immigration which the base clearly hates. Trump became the GOP nominee as soon as his opponents reacted exactly the way he wanted them to.

The only question now is how will he bait Clinton in the general election and will it work?

lol.

But, really, dude.. this is fcking nuts. I need someone to refute this poll ASAP, lest I start to actually believe it, and consequently lose all faith in my country.

The majority of the GOP, a plurality of independents, and a significant minority of democrats want immigration decreased (http://www.pewresearch.org...). Considering that 2/3rds of Republicans want to severely restrict immigration anyway and muslim immigrants seem to be a high risk population who just committed two major terrorist attacks on western nations in less than a month it doesn't seem that surprising that these numbers are the way they are. The only surprising aspect is that the proposal gets such low support among independents, but I suspect that's in a large part due to the media sh!tshow. Had this poll been taken before Trump made this into an issue I suspect the numbers would be far higher.

I'm serious when I say that this won Trump the nomination. He baited the other candidates into shilling for muslim immigration when it was incredibly obvious that the base did not want that. What will he bait Clinton into doing?

He will bait her into doing anything and everything that he conceivably can...

The thing is that Hillary Clinton (unlike every other Republican politician in this country, apparently, except Ted Cruz who... I mean, really... just did exactly the right thing here) is both smart enough to outsmart Trump's mind games, and she is pretty good at playing them herself.

The difference between Trump and the field is that they're all fragile, frail, and unable to adapt to changing circumstances. Hillary, in contrast, has been swimming in floods since 1992. She's going to be wildly more able to take on Trump than anyone else.... so we'll see.

Yup, I was thinking the same thing. Clinton and Trump seem about evenly matched--with different strengths but both masterful politicians (although Bill is obviously better than Hillary as one of the most talented politicians in a long time). As it stands I would hand the edge to Clinton because Trump is having to do things like make these pronouncements to win the GOP primary whereas Clinton can get through hers undamaged. However there's a ton of potential baggage on Clinton that you note below...we'll see if Trump can make it stick better than her opponents have thus far.

Have you read any of the Scott Adams blog posts about Trump? They've been really interesting. The most interesting concept he brought up so far was the idea of a "linguistic kill shot"--he called Jeb! "Low energy" and it stuck and made the Bush campaign beyond recovery (http://blog.dilbert.com...). Who knows if Trump can engineer a linguistic kill shot against Clinton...she's pretty good at getting out of things, but Trump is a lot more persuasive than people give him credit for. He basically already has a cult following that he built from scratch in a few months.


But if I had to guess... he's going to hit Benghazi hard, the emails, and any conceivable thing else his investigators (which I'm sure he's hired in droves by now) can find. I'm sure, beyond that, that he's got a war chest of secrets that he's already dug up that he's just waiting to release (I mean, you don't go into war with the expectation that you're going to only start preparing on the day of the battle).

The only thing I can specifically say is that he is going to have, probably, a team of psychological profilers sort through every conceivable aspect of her life, and he is going to find every point of weakness that he can, and he's just going to nail her at every one of those points... bit by bit. He'll start out gradually, and then he'll save the best stuff until right before the election.

And she'll do the same thing, of course...
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Vox_Veritas
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12/10/2015 4:48:11 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
America isn't Europe, so we have no right to favor any particular religion in our immigration policies. But accepting immigrants is a choice which we have the right to turn down. In cases where the immigrants are a net detriment (I.e. a minority of them acts bad enough to negate whatever positive impact the rest of them have) we should send them back, and no one in their right mind would dispute that the ISIL would at the minimum merely contemplate smuggling their own people among the thousands of incoming refugees (after all, pulling off massive terror attacks on western targets is something that massively fuels jihadist recruitment). In fact, it's a certainty that they'll at least smuggle in a few.
So we should refrain from accepting Syrian refugees, though those from, say, Saudi Arabia and Iran shouldn't be as problematic.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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GrittyWorm
Posts: 1,566
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12/10/2015 5:09:14 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/9/2015 6:12:19 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
.... support Donald Trump's proposed ban on Muslims entering the country, says a recent Bloomberg poll.

"Almost two-thirds of likely 2016 Republican primary voters favor Donald Trump's call to temporarily ban Muslims from entering the U.S., while more than a third say it makes them more likely to vote for him."

[http://www.bloomberg.com...]

I haven't had time to read through the methodology, so it's possible--and hopefully this is true--that this is all nonsense. Trump voters have surprised me before, though.

Thoughts?

If aliens from another galaxy pull ships into the Earth's airspace do you tolerate them? Welcome them? Nope. You nuke the bastards into the ground.
Geogeer
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12/10/2015 5:09:26 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 4:35:59 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/10/2015 4:21:24 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 12/10/2015 3:29:51 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:05:14 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 12/9/2015 7:05:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
He forced his opponents to shill for Islamic immigration which the base clearly hates. Trump became the GOP nominee as soon as his opponents reacted exactly the way he wanted them to.

The only question now is how will he bait Clinton in the general election and will it work?

lol.

But, really, dude.. this is fcking nuts. I need someone to refute this poll ASAP, lest I start to actually believe it, and consequently lose all faith in my country.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is accurate. The staggering ignorance when it comes to Islam is systemic in this country, and reactionary idiocy has long been a national pastime.

Yet you have Muslims who reinforce that opinion.

I don't listen to angry young ex-Muslims who have left the religion when it comes to Islam for the same reason that I don't listen to angry young ex-Christians who have left the religion when it comes to Christianity: their views are often simplistic, fueled by tangential rebellions against parental and societal authority, and colored by the conflict which they endured while leaving those religions. When I want to learn about Islam, or Christianity, I read one of the thousands of educated, historically literate people who have written on them over centuries of human history. I find it surprising that you, who have no doubt had to fight the same sort of wearying battle against ardent, fresh 'New Atheist' types would be so eager to listen to someone cut of the same cloth so long as they are criticizing another religion. The fact of the matter is that it is very fashionable, even lucrative, to criticize Christianity from a place of ignorance. It has been for years. It is just recently becoming more fashionable to do the same to Islam, and, as someone who has been reading about Islam and Middle Eastern history for over a decade, I am not going to take the word of some bitter women who may well be jumping on a bandwagon over the concurrent opinions of both Western and Islamic authorities over several centuries.

Funny. I do listen to them, because those who have left give reasons for leaving. One can then investigate the responses to those reasons and see if they make sense. The best test of something is to find the strongest arguments against and build from there.
GrittyWorm
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12/10/2015 5:13:38 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
And why would I say such a thing? Well. According to a poll administered by Al Jahera, 82% of Muslims approve of ISIS' takeover of Afghanistan and Iraq. Come to reality. Take the Liberal blinders off and let me introduce you to my affiliation called Moderate. It's okay to say,"hey, homosexuals should have rights but hell no you can't have my firearm." It's okay to say,"hey maybe a woman should have the right to choose concerning abortion, but no it is NOT wise to bring in 250,000 Syrian refugees." My God.
Skepsikyma
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12/10/2015 5:27:09 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 5:09:26 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 12/10/2015 4:35:59 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I don't listen to angry young ex-Muslims who have left the religion when it comes to Islam for the same reason that I don't listen to angry young ex-Christians who have left the religion when it comes to Christianity: their views are often simplistic, fueled by tangential rebellions against parental and societal authority, and colored by the conflict which they endured while leaving those religions. When I want to learn about Islam, or Christianity, I read one of the thousands of educated, historically literate people who have written on them over centuries of human history. I find it surprising that you, who have no doubt had to fight the same sort of wearying battle against ardent, fresh 'New Atheist' types would be so eager to listen to someone cut of the same cloth so long as they are criticizing another religion. The fact of the matter is that it is very fashionable, even lucrative, to criticize Christianity from a place of ignorance. It has been for years. It is just recently becoming more fashionable to do the same to Islam, and, as someone who has been reading about Islam and Middle Eastern history for over a decade, I am not going to take the word of some bitter women who may well be jumping on a bandwagon over the concurrent opinions of both Western and Islamic authorities over several centuries.

Funny. I do listen to them, because those who have left give reasons for leaving. One can then investigate the responses to those reasons and see if they make sense. The best test of something is to find the strongest arguments against and build from there.

But these aren't the strongest arguments. They're driven by emotion and colored by other interpersonal arguments. You could certainly listen to them, as a Christian, to see how your religion is perceived by former members, but you wouldn't treat that perception as the reality of what the religion is, or I would imagine that you wouldn't belong to the faith anymore. You presented this women as a reputable source when it comes to the state of Islam as a religion to a neutral party; I doubt that you would be pleased if someone presented the the Christian analogue in a similar light.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
Geogeer
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12/10/2015 5:34:06 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 5:27:09 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 12/10/2015 5:09:26 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 12/10/2015 4:35:59 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I don't listen to angry young ex-Muslims who have left the religion when it comes to Islam for the same reason that I don't listen to angry young ex-Christians who have left the religion when it comes to Christianity: their views are often simplistic, fueled by tangential rebellions against parental and societal authority, and colored by the conflict which they endured while leaving those religions. When I want to learn about Islam, or Christianity, I read one of the thousands of educated, historically literate people who have written on them over centuries of human history. I find it surprising that you, who have no doubt had to fight the same sort of wearying battle against ardent, fresh 'New Atheist' types would be so eager to listen to someone cut of the same cloth so long as they are criticizing another religion. The fact of the matter is that it is very fashionable, even lucrative, to criticize Christianity from a place of ignorance. It has been for years. It is just recently becoming more fashionable to do the same to Islam, and, as someone who has been reading about Islam and Middle Eastern history for over a decade, I am not going to take the word of some bitter women who may well be jumping on a bandwagon over the concurrent opinions of both Western and Islamic authorities over several centuries.

Funny. I do listen to them, because those who have left give reasons for leaving. One can then investigate the responses to those reasons and see if they make sense. The best test of something is to find the strongest arguments against and build from there.

But these aren't the strongest arguments. They're driven by emotion and colored by other interpersonal arguments. You could certainly listen to them, as a Christian, to see how your religion is perceived by former members, but you wouldn't treat that perception as the reality of what the religion is, or I would imagine that you wouldn't belong to the faith anymore. You presented this women as a reputable source when it comes to the state of Islam as a religion to a neutral party; I doubt that you would be pleased if someone presented the the Christian analogue in a similar light.

Actually, that is where I started to really learn my faith. When people who left the faith would give reasons, I would then find out if what they were saying was right or not. Often these led to stronger arguments. Many people that strongly leave a faith, vs just gravitating to another one have done so out of study rather than ignorance.
Mikal
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12/10/2015 5:58:02 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/9/2015 11:16:07 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 12/9/2015 11:05:14 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 12/9/2015 7:05:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
He forced his opponents to shill for Islamic immigration which the base clearly hates. Trump became the GOP nominee as soon as his opponents reacted exactly the way he wanted them to.

The only question now is how will he bait Clinton in the general election and will it work?

lol.

But, really, dude.. this is fcking nuts. I need someone to refute this poll ASAP, lest I start to actually believe it, and consequently lose all faith in my country.

The majority of the GOP, a plurality of independents, and a significant minority of democrats want immigration decreased (http://www.pewresearch.org...). Considering that 2/3rds of Republicans want to severely restrict immigration anyway and muslim immigrants seem to be a high risk population who just committed two major terrorist attacks on western nations in less than a month it doesn't seem that surprising that these numbers are the way they are. The only surprising aspect is that the proposal gets such low support among independents, but I suspect that's in a large part due to the media sh!tshow. Had this poll been taken before Trump made this into an issue I suspect the numbers would be far higher.

I'm serious when I say that this won Trump the nomination. He baited the other candidates into shilling for muslim immigration when it was incredibly obvious that the base did not want that. What will he bait Clinton into doing?

I honestly think that Trump is trying to destroy the GOP. Trump is not as stupid as everyone thinks he is. Even the stuff he is saying now, he would never say prior to this due to the damage it can cause his company. I was literally thinking the same thing you are. He said publicly that he wanted to stop all Muslim immigrants from coming it to force people like bush, and even cruz (his opposition) to basically condemn him. They could chose not to condemn him, but it basically forced them into attack him when in reality most of the GOP are racist fuktards that support it. It was genius

What's even more genius is the dude knows he has a 0 percent change to win, even if he gets the nomination. I honestly think hes trying to hand it to Clinton on purpose
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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12/10/2015 6:03:29 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 5:09:14 AM, GrittyWorm wrote:
At 12/9/2015 6:12:19 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
.... support Donald Trump's proposed ban on Muslims entering the country, says a recent Bloomberg poll.

"Almost two-thirds of likely 2016 Republican primary voters favor Donald Trump's call to temporarily ban Muslims from entering the U.S., while more than a third say it makes them more likely to vote for him."

[http://www.bloomberg.com...]

I haven't had time to read through the methodology, so it's possible--and hopefully this is true--that this is all nonsense. Trump voters have surprised me before, though.

Thoughts?

If aliens from another galaxy pull ships into the Earth's airspace do you tolerate them? Welcome them? Nope. You nuke the bastards into the ground.

What a completely worthless and offensive analogy.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/10/2015 6:19:09 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 5:34:06 AM, Geogeer wrote:

Actually, that is where I started to really learn my faith. When people who left the faith would give reasons, I would then find out if what they were saying was right or not. Often these led to stronger arguments.

- So, from one type of ignorance to another type ignorance?! Learning, any kind of learning, should be done through those who have the knowledge, not through ignorants because they have favourable or unfavourably opinion about the subject. The girl is an idiot, & everything she says is what Christians have been saying for eternity, nothing new here. Clearly, she was never taught anything about Islam from Muslims.

Many people that strongly leave a faith, vs just gravitating to another one have done so out of study rather than ignorance.

- You know this applies to those who leave Christianity to become Muslim as well!
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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Geogeer
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12/10/2015 6:31:22 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 6:19:09 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/10/2015 5:34:06 AM, Geogeer wrote:

Actually, that is where I started to really learn my faith. When people who left the faith would give reasons, I would then find out if what they were saying was right or not. Often these led to stronger arguments.

- So, from one type of ignorance to another type ignorance?!

Not at all. Pointed questions and critiques that give a place to begin learning more in-depth.

Learning, any kind of learning, should be done through those who have the knowledge, not through ignorants because they have favourable or unfavourably opinion about the subject.

People with critiques give a place to improve learning, they give questions to ask that may not have come into your mind. You can then see what those who have knowledge you have yet to acquire refute the assertion. Then you make your mind up once you've weighed the evidence.

The girl is an idiot, & everything she says is what Christians have been saying for eternity, nothing new here. Clearly, she was never taught anything about Islam from Muslims.

That may be true, and it may be false. That is why it is interesting to listen to both sides. You see it would make more sense for you to actually refute points than just to call her an idiot. It comes across as adhoms.

Many people that strongly leave a faith, vs just gravitating to another one have done so out of study rather than ignorance.

- You know this applies to those who leave Christianity to become Muslim as well!

Did I ever claim otherwise?
Yassine
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12/10/2015 6:46:58 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 6:31:22 AM, Geogeer wrote:

Not at all. Pointed questions and critiques that give a place to begin learning more in-depth.

- Not when ignorance is the ground on which you rely.

People with critiques give a place to improve learning, they give questions to ask that may not have come into your mind.

- Critique is a form of analytical judgement, which requires one to know what to judge, how to judge, how to analyse that judgement. In the absence of knowledge of the subject, critique is pointless.

You can then see what those who have knowledge you have yet to acquire refute the assertion.

- The opinions of those who have no knowledge of a subject are completely irrelevant to the subject.

Then you make your mind up once you've weighed the evidence.

- In this case, you're putting yourself in a place of judgement, which requires knowledge. Learning involves inquiry first, judgement comes much later.

That may be true, and it may be false.

- It may be false, but it isn't. When the girl says, they taught me such & such, which coincides with what Christians think Muslims teach, & contradicts what Muslims actually teach, you realise the falsehood in the claim.

That is why it is interesting to listen to both sides.

- It could be interesting, but listening to those ignorant about a subject is ultimately irrelevant to said subject. You can listen to someone who barely knows anything of Physics babble about Physics for a whole day, but nothing of what he says would mean actually anything to Physics itself.

You see it would make more sense for you to actually refute points than just to call her an idiot.

- That defeats the whole principal of learning... Why argue with an ignorant when can learn from the knowledgeable.

It comes across as adhoms.

- Ad hom looks like this, "you are..., therefore what you say...". What I said looks like, "what you said..., therefore you are...".
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Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
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Geogeer
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12/10/2015 8:00:55 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/10/2015 6:46:58 AM, Yassine wrote:
At 12/10/2015 6:31:22 AM, Geogeer wrote:

Not at all. Pointed questions and critiques that give a place to begin learning more in-depth.

- Not when ignorance is the ground on which you rely.

There is no such thing as a stupid question.

People with critiques give a place to improve learning, they give questions to ask that may not have come into your mind.

- Critique is a form of analytical judgement, which requires one to know what to judge, how to judge, how to analyse that judgement. In the absence of knowledge of the subject, critique is pointless.

Who says there is a lack of knowledge? I already noted that this is a place of inquiry into which one can then apply their intellect to seek and understand.

You can then see what those who have knowledge you have yet to acquire refute the assertion.

- The opinions of those who have no knowledge of a subject are completely irrelevant to the subject.

So I am to assume that a former muslim has no knowledge? Or am I better to assume they have some knowledge. Then investigate whether their understanding is correct or not?

Then you make your mind up once you've weighed the evidence.

- In this case, you're putting yourself in a place of judgement, which requires knowledge. Learning involves inquiry first, judgement comes much later.

Where the hell did I say that there was no inquiry? I clearly stated:

You can then see what those who have knowledge you have yet to acquire refute the assertion.

i.e. you look into what the other side says. i.e. you weigh the evidence.

That may be true, and it may be false.

- It may be false, but it isn't. When the girl says, they taught me such & such, which coincides with what Christians think Muslims teach, & contradicts what Muslims actually teach, you realise the falsehood in the claim.

Then I've given you the perfect stage to refute her points (and I'm not saying that I agree with hers, I was merely using her as an example)... this is a debate site after all.

That is why it is interesting to listen to both sides.

- It could be interesting, but listening to those ignorant about a subject is ultimately irrelevant to said subject. You can listen to someone who barely knows anything of Physics babble about Physics for a whole day, but nothing of what he says would mean actually anything to Physics itself.

And if that causes you to inquire into the veracity of what that person said then props to you!

You see it would make more sense for you to actually refute points than just to call her an idiot.

- That defeats the whole principal of learning... Why argue with an ignorant when can learn from the knowledgeable.

Very well. Who has the authority to perfectly interpret the Koran? Why should the Koran require any interpretation? And why should I believe the authority of the Koran? (Maybe those questions should be in reverse order).

It comes across as adhoms.

- Ad hom looks like this, "you are..., therefore what you say...". What I said looks like, "what you said..., therefore you are...".

No, you premised that she said what she said because she is a convert, and then saying that she is obviously uneducated and an idiot. Now while all those points may be true, you disparaged her first then proceeded to call her an idiot, without actually discussing her point(s).
Berend
Posts: 188
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12/10/2015 8:55:21 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/9/2015 6:12:19 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
.... support Donald Trump's proposed ban on Muslims entering the country, says a recent Bloomberg poll.

"Almost two-thirds of likely 2016 Republican primary voters favor Donald Trump's call to temporarily ban Muslims from entering the U.S., while more than a third say it makes them more likely to vote for him."

[http://www.bloomberg.com...]

I haven't had time to read through the methodology, so it's possible--and hopefully this is true--that this is all nonsense. Trump voters have surprised me before, though.

Thoughts?

Other than the fact that he tells people vague things that they want to hear? I'm not surprise with how many Conservatives think every Muslim is out to get them, they'd be fore this. I mean, the way Trump is, he could come out saying butt sex with a man is good if you're a man and half the GOP likely would agree just because it's Trump.

These are seemingly the same people who disagreed with Obama on things just because it was Obama.