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NYT: Republicans lie more often

000ike
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12/12/2015 4:55:39 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
http://www.nytimes.com...

So the article gathers data from PolitiFact to demonstrate that Republicans candidates lie more often than Democratic candidates...and the dividing line is really quite clear cut. I'm sure there are some flaws in the methodology, namely sampling bias -- there are hundreds of fact-checked statements from POTUS over 2 election cycles, but only a handful from more recent candidates like Carson --- but I doubt any particular error would be sufficient to explain the clear divide between the two parties.

So what's the reason for this? Why does the GOP lie?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/12/2015 5:19:44 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/12/2015 4:55:39 AM, 000ike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

So the article gathers data from PolitiFact to demonstrate that Republicans candidates lie more often than Democratic candidates...and the dividing line is really quite clear cut. I'm sure there are some flaws in the methodology, namely sampling bias -- there are hundreds of fact-checked statements from POTUS over 2 election cycles, but only a handful from more recent candidates like Carson --- but I doubt any particular error would be sufficient to explain the clear divide between the two parties.

So what's the reason for this? Why does the GOP lie?

Because they are liers? Because the positions require lies to sell then? I can think of others, but these are off the top of my head.
Chang29
Posts: 732
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12/12/2015 5:42:34 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Politicians that don't lie are called radicals.
A free market anti-capitalist

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stealspell
Posts: 980
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12/12/2015 5:52:22 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/12/2015 4:55:39 AM, 000ike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

So the article gathers data from PolitiFact to demonstrate that Republicans candidates lie more often than Democratic candidates...and the dividing line is really quite clear cut. I'm sure there are some flaws in the methodology, namely sampling bias -- there are hundreds of fact-checked statements from POTUS over 2 election cycles, but only a handful from more recent candidates like Carson --- but I doubt any particular error would be sufficient to explain the clear divide between the two parties.

So what's the reason for this? Why does the GOP lie?

They don't just lie to the electorate. They unfairly redistrict and make it difficult for minorities to vote, etc. In other words, to get elected they have to cheat.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/12/2015 6:30:43 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/12/2015 5:52:22 AM, stealspell wrote:
At 12/12/2015 4:55:39 AM, 000ike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

So the article gathers data from PolitiFact to demonstrate that Republicans candidates lie more often than Democratic candidates...and the dividing line is really quite clear cut. I'm sure there are some flaws in the methodology, namely sampling bias -- there are hundreds of fact-checked statements from POTUS over 2 election cycles, but only a handful from more recent candidates like Carson --- but I doubt any particular error would be sufficient to explain the clear divide between the two parties.

So what's the reason for this? Why does the GOP lie?

They don't just lie to the electorate. They unfairly redistrict and make it difficult for minorities to vote, etc. In other words, to get elected they have to cheat.

No doubts about that. Without it they would have a tough time in congress, and without voter suppression, no chance for the WH.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,242
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12/12/2015 7:51:22 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I'm curious how such organizations select which statements to fact check. Obviously they're not checking every statement that comes out of every politician's mouth, so what's to stop them from skewing the results by focusing on statements they know are true for the candidates they like while focusing on the outrageous statements of candidates they hate? It doesn't even need to be conscious. Someone on the left is simply going to be more attune to the stupid things Republicans say for perfectly obvious reasons. Same goes for those on the right regarding the things liberals say. I think Republicans in general are more prone to making politically incorrect/scandalous remarks which get reported in the major media outlets. Democrats are more under the radar so there's less impetus to scrutinize the things they say. There's also the more subtle issue of topic bias. That's not to say that I don't think the Republican candidates are bigger liars in general, but there are probably more accurate ways to study this question.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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12/12/2015 4:07:05 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
The right lies more because rightists are more self aware and realize what they need to say. Leftists have no idea. My evidence?

The left thought not only that this man child was fit for something that wasn't a punch in the face, but they thought this would actually be a compelling ad. Their legitimacy = DESTROYED. http://s3-origin-images.politico.com...
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
TBR
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12/12/2015 5:54:54 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/12/2015 4:07:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
The right lies more because rightists are more self aware and realize what they need to say. Leftists have no idea. My evidence?

The left thought not only that this man child was fit for something that wasn't a punch in the face, but they thought this would actually be a compelling ad. Their legitimacy = DESTROYED. http://s3-origin-images.politico.com...

This is the must idiotic post ihave ever read from you.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/12/2015 6:27:04 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/12/2015 5:54:54 PM, TBR wrote:
At 12/12/2015 4:07:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
The right lies more because rightists are more self aware and realize what they need to say. Leftists have no idea. My evidence?

The left thought not only that this man child was fit for something that wasn't a punch in the face, but they thought this would actually be a compelling ad. Their legitimacy = DESTROYED. http://s3-origin-images.politico.com...

This is the must idiotic post ihave ever read from you.

lol I'm pretty sure he was joking. Thett should know, however, that the "man child" in that ad is fairly representative of the typical young adult at least in the North East; and that is, presumably, the target demographic
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Diqiucun_Cunmin
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12/12/2015 6:35:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I think the problem is more than sampling... They didn't really do a hypothesis test for the difference between two sample proportions; no p-value was provided. Thus we have no way of knowing whether the difference is significant or not, unless we do the maths ourselves...

Then of course, the line between, for example, mostly false and pants on fire is unclear, and personal bias probably comes to play, consciously or subconsciously...
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/12/2015 6:42:18 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/12/2015 6:35:33 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
I think the problem is more than sampling... They didn't really do a hypothesis test for the difference between two sample proportions; no p-value was provided. Thus we have no way of knowing whether the difference is significant or not, unless we do the maths ourselves...

Then of course, the line between, for example, mostly false and pants on fire is unclear, and personal bias probably comes to play, consciously or subconsciously...

No one purported that this was a rigorously scientific study. It's just an assembly of data from an independent fact checker. I don't think that sampling error or any other methodological criticisms you raise mean that the results here aren't sufficient to indicate that Republicans lie more often. There's absolutely no reason why the two parties should be so clearly diametrically opposed when it comes to truthfulness, unless that's the reality.

Or unless you make the argument that there's subconscious partisan bias from the Factchecker when selecting what statements to probe. I doubt that though.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,240
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12/12/2015 7:06:57 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Does it really matter?

It's like saying one criminal is more murderous than another criminal. You still don't want to associate with either.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/12/2015 7:23:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/12/2015 7:06:57 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Does it really matter?

It's like saying one criminal is more murderous than another criminal. You still don't want to associate with either.

Yes it does. It doesn't make sense that you would look at this chart, comparing Carson's 84% falsehood rate to Clinton's 28% and claim that it doesn't matter because either way they both lie. I'd understand if the difference was marginal, but it's just not.

And lol that reminds me, my neurobiology professor once told me that everyone lies everyday and it's essentially uncontrollable... someone you think is honest simply lies less frequently and less egregiously. So the degree of falsehood really is all that matters.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Greyparrot
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12/12/2015 8:06:07 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/12/2015 7:23:49 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/12/2015 7:06:57 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Does it really matter?

It's like saying one criminal is more murderous than another criminal. You still don't want to associate with either.

Yes it does. It doesn't make sense that you would look at this chart, comparing Carson's 84% falsehood rate to Clinton's 28% and claim that it doesn't matter because either way they both lie. I'd understand if the difference was marginal, but it's just not.

And lol that reminds me, my neurobiology professor once told me that everyone lies everyday and it's essentially uncontrollable... someone you think is honest simply lies less frequently and less egregiously. So the degree of falsehood really is all that matters.

If you don't have zero tolerance for lies, then degrees shouldn't matter. You are willing to be led by someone who, at times, does not care about you at all. That's disturbing.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,378
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12/12/2015 8:57:46 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/12/2015 4:55:39 AM, 000ike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

So the article gathers data from PolitiFact to demonstrate that Republicans candidates lie more often than Democratic candidates...and the dividing line is really quite clear cut. I'm sure there are some flaws in the methodology, namely sampling bias -- there are hundreds of fact-checked statements from POTUS over 2 election cycles, but only a handful from more recent candidates like Carson --- but I doubt any particular error would be sufficient to explain the clear divide between the two parties.

So what's the reason for this? Why does the GOP lie?

Both sides lie, but I find Republicans are doing it a lot more. Even with Hillary Clinton as a Democrat, the Republicans are still worse.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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12/12/2015 9:05:50 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/12/2015 6:27:04 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/12/2015 5:54:54 PM, TBR wrote:
At 12/12/2015 4:07:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
The right lies more because rightists are more self aware and realize what they need to say. Leftists have no idea. My evidence?

The left thought not only that this man child was fit for something that wasn't a punch in the face, but they thought this would actually be a compelling ad. Their legitimacy = DESTROYED. http://s3-origin-images.politico.com...

This is the must idiotic post ihave ever read from you.

lol I'm pretty sure he was joking. Thett should know, however, that the "man child" in that ad is fairly representative of the typical young adult at least in the North East; and that is, presumably, the target demographic

Oh god are you serious???? If so, we're truly doomed
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right