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Solution to Illegal Immigration.

SM2
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12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
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12/13/2015 9:56:59 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.

I don't have time to fully rebut this one but seriously...just think about what you just said and the consequences of drug legalization.
SM2
Posts: 546
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12/13/2015 10:02:27 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:56:59 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
I don't have time to fully rebut this one but seriously...just think about what you just said and the consequences of drug legalization.

At least make a token effort at rebuttal. Otherwise, you're only posting to tell me I'm stupid.
MakeSensePeopleDont
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12/13/2015 10:28:37 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 10:02:27 PM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:56:59 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
I don't have time to fully rebut this one but seriously...just think about what you just said and the consequences of drug legalization.

At least make a token effort at rebuttal. Otherwise, you're only posting to tell me I'm stupid.

If you made an effort to read my response as stated, you would see that "I don't have time to fully rebut this one." Give me time to finish my tasks at home and I will.
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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12/13/2015 10:47:32 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:56:59 PM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
I don't have time to fully rebut this one but seriously...just think about what you just said and the consequences of drug legalization.

Drug legalization if done right can reduce drug usage, especially in children and other people who shouldn't have them. It's much easier to regulate a gov't controlled industry than one managed by street gangs and cartels.
#GaryJohnson2016
#TaxationisTheft
#TheftisTaxation
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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12/13/2015 10:48:02 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.

Legalizing drugs will have to be done right, and the resulting drug industry will have to be under heavy gov't control.
#GaryJohnson2016
#TaxationisTheft
#TheftisTaxation
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,683
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12/13/2015 10:53:28 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.

Stalins solution:

-Start WW3
-Nuclear Holocaust
-Everyone's dead
-No people= no problem
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
SM2
Posts: 546
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12/13/2015 10:58:14 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 10:48:02 PM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.

Legalizing drugs will have to be done right, and the resulting drug industry will have to be under heavy gov't control.

Age and driving restrictions on all drugs.

Can only be purchased at licensed premises.

Hard stuff must be purchased and used at licensed opium den, and customer must be sober before leaving. Medical staff must be on premises at all times.

Suppliers and manufacturers must meet strict quality standards, and abide by Health and Safety regulations.

Drug sales are taxed, to lessen the resulting burden upon the Healthcare system (which you should probably fix before trying to legalize drugs; just cut out the insurance companies and go public).
piefav
Posts: 26
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12/13/2015 11:29:24 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 10:58:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 10:48:02 PM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.

Legalizing drugs will have to be done right, and the resulting drug industry will have to be under heavy gov't control.

Age and driving restrictions on all drugs.

Can only be purchased at licensed premises.

Hard stuff must be purchased and used at licensed opium den, and customer must be sober before leaving. Medical staff must be on premises at all times.

Suppliers and manufacturers must meet strict quality standards, and abide by Health and Safety regulations.

Drug sales are taxed, to lessen the resulting burden upon the Healthcare system (which you should probably fix before trying to legalize drugs; just cut out the insurance companies and go public).

If drug use is limited that much, wouldn't people still purchase drugs from cartels?
"Homosexuality is not a belief. If something exists, there's no need for belief. It's like saying you believe in calculators."
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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12/14/2015 12:14:00 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 10:58:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
Age and driving restrictions on all drugs.

Can only be purchased at licensed premises.

Hard stuff must be purchased and used at licensed opium den, and customer must be sober before leaving. Medical staff must be on premises at all times.

Suppliers and manufacturers must meet strict quality standards, and abide by Health and Safety regulations.

Drug sales are taxed, to lessen the resulting burden upon the Healthcare system (which you should probably fix before trying to legalize drugs; just cut out the insurance companies and go public).

I'd also throw in "no public usage of recreational drugs."
#GaryJohnson2016
#TaxationisTheft
#TheftisTaxation
beng100
Posts: 1,055
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12/14/2015 12:26:14 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

No this would lead to increased drug use, drug addictions, drug deaths, drug driving, drug overdoses, drug users, healthcare costs and a reduced life expectancy. This offsets any immigration benefits.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

True but offset by other issues.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

Also true but again not worth the negatives.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Potentially

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Marginally

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Marginally

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Marginally

Find the flaw in this strategy.

Fundamentaly flawed strategy. Leads to massive drug problems for minor benefits.
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,078
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12/14/2015 12:46:18 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.

Yes. As one person once said, "what one generation tolerance the next will embrace." At some point after legalizing drugs like Heroin, Ecstasy, Meth, Cocaine, and so on it will be socially encouraged to use drugs. A huge percentage of the population will be on these drugs.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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12/14/2015 12:47:56 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
Also, not 100% of illegal immigrants come from South America. Some come from Middle Eastern or East Asian countries which aren't large hubs of illegal drug production.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Vox_Veritas
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12/14/2015 12:52:38 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
Also, heavily regulated drugs will likely be more expensive than their illicit counterparts, seeing as how it'd often be diluted, produced by borderline or actual slaves who make nothing (in contrast to legal employees who'd need to be paid $10 an hour), produced by kingpins who didn't have to pay for expensive environmental or workplace safety regulations, didn't pay for ads, and so on.
The illegal product would inevitably be cheaper and as a result demand for it would still exist.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
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12/14/2015 8:18:05 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.

1) Please clarify the ambiguous "Legalize Drugs". What drugs?

Moving forward, I will reply with the assumption that you are referring to all drugs.

2) The first roadblock will be the FDA which requires extensive testing, clinical trials, documentation, fees, and more just to be considered for approval in the U.S. Keep in mind, I am skipping straight to the FDA, skipping all previous steps. Once all prerequisites are completed, the FDA will review and either send it back for further testing or approve it for market. This process with the FDA, assuming everything go as planned, takes somewhere in the ballpark of six to eight years to complete. This must be completed for all currently illegal drugs in use today.

3) In terms of the street market, it takes a street chemist about an hour to get a new drug tested and approved or denied.

4) A small team of chemists can design and develop dozens of new drugs at one time

5) Additionally, while a pharmaceutical company must use the highest of quality ingredients and follow and massive list of policies and procedures, a street chemist simply needs to walk out to his garage in his PJs, sit down at a workbench and start tossing together combos of whatever chemicals he has laying around the house

6) So, while legal drug prices will be sky high and the system takes almost a decade to get a new drug on the market, the Cartel chemists will be pumping out handfuls of new drugs, selling on the street for a fraction of the cost

7) Let's examine legal marijuana for example. On the street, a gram of good bud goes for $8 - $10, with a gram of very high grade bud going for $15-$20. Conversely, using CO as reference, a gram of good bud goes for $25, with a gram of very high grade bud going for $35

The Cartels aren't going to financially collapse if you legalize drugs in the U.S. They will indeed take a hit to the market sector who can afford $25 - $35 for a gram of pot as well as the sector that rarely smokes so $35 a gram isn't that bad once or twice a month.

Hard drugs will cost much more and (keeping it very short here) hard drugs generally lead to lack of ability to hold employment, or employment with decent pay. Low income hard drug users and those on government assistance won't be able to afford legal market costs, so they will remain with the illegal street dealers. With the market trends over the past decade moving away from marijuana and to the harder, stimulant drugs; Cartel customer flow will increase and more individuals will be undoubtedly become stuck with the illegal street dealers, which will actually not only makeup for the loss in marijuana revenue, but increase overall income for the Cartels.
SM2
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12/14/2015 8:40:03 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/14/2015 8:18:05 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.

1) Please clarify the ambiguous "Legalize Drugs". What drugs?

Moving forward, I will reply with the assumption that you are referring to all drugs.

The average person knows what I mean by "drugs", so there is no need to discuss this.

2) The first roadblock will be the FDA which requires extensive testing, clinical trials, documentation, fees, and more just to be considered for approval in the U.S. Keep in mind, I am skipping straight to the FDA, skipping all previous steps. Once all prerequisites are completed, the FDA will review and either send it back for further testing or approve it for market. This process with the FDA, assuming everything go as planned, takes somewhere in the ballpark of six to eight years to complete. This must be completed for all currently illegal drugs in use today.

We already know the pros and cons of smoking pot, so the FDA's involvement is minimal.

3) In terms of the street market, it takes a street chemist about an hour to get a new drug tested and approved or denied.

4) A small team of chemists can design and develop dozens of new drugs at one time

Why do it on the street for pocket change, when you can join big pharma for a modest salary and the relative certainty of not getting shot?

5) Additionally, while a pharmaceutical company must use the highest of quality ingredients and follow and massive list of policies and procedures, a street chemist simply needs to walk out to his garage in his PJs, sit down at a workbench and start tossing together combos of whatever chemicals he has laying around the house

Hence why people would be more likely to buy from big pharma.

6) So, while legal drug prices will be sky high and the system takes almost a decade to get a new drug on the market, the Cartel chemists will be pumping out handfuls of new drugs, selling on the street for a fraction of the cost

So the problem will be solved in a decade.

7) Let's examine legal marijuana for example. On the street, a gram of good bud goes for $8 - $10, with a gram of very high grade bud going for $15-$20. Conversely, using CO as reference, a gram of good bud goes for $25, with a gram of very high grade bud going for $35

The Cartels aren't going to financially collapse if you legalize drugs in the U.S. They will indeed take a hit to the market sector who can afford $25 - $35 for a gram of pot as well as the sector that rarely smokes so $35 a gram isn't that bad once or twice a month.

Hard drugs will cost much more and (keeping it very short here) hard drugs generally lead to lack of ability to hold employment, or employment with decent pay. Low income hard drug users and those on government assistance won't be able to afford legal market costs, so they will remain with the illegal street dealers. With the market trends over the past decade moving away from marijuana and to the harder, stimulant drugs; Cartel customer flow will increase and more individuals will be undoubtedly become stuck with the illegal street dealers, which will actually not only makeup for the loss in marijuana revenue, but increase overall income for the Cartels.

Okay, so the cartels won't disappear completely. However, their income will go down, which reduces their power, which weakens their hold on things down south. Assuming my chain of cause-and-effect holds, there should still be some mild improvement down there, which might reduce the number of illegal immigrants.
MakeSensePeopleDont
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12/14/2015 8:57:43 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 10:58:14 PM, SM2 wrote:

Age and driving restrictions on all drugs.

HEY! You got it! Just like the flawless tobacco, alcohol, prescription medication, and medical & legal marijuana systems we have in place

Hard stuff must be purchased and used at licensed opium den, and customer must be sober before leaving. Medical staff must be on premises at all times.

Simply going through standard FDA protocols, you're looking at a price increase of an absolute minimum of 300%.

Additionally, the establishment owner will need to pay rent, maintenance, payroll, repairs, license fees, etc. So let's say 400% - 500% increase compared to street value.

Finally, the medical staff. As you are talking hard drugs with serious side effects and very high potential for very bad things to happen in the blink of an eye, you will require a medical staff consisting of physicians, not just registered nurses. That is, on average, $120 per hour, per physician; five customers per physician, let's say 20 customer capacity, or four physicians: 120*4=$480 per hour for medical staffing which will be added to the price of product.

But wait, there's more...customers must be sober prior to exiting the establishment, so each customer will occupy a seat for say 60-90 minutes on the conservative side. Entrance fee or jack up your prices even further?

Suppliers and manufacturers must meet strict quality standards, and abide by Health and Safety regulations.

Cha-Ching, Cha-Ching, Cha-Ching. Your operating costs just keep rising; your customers cost of product equivalently continues to grow

Drug sales are taxed, to lessen the resulting burden upon the Healthcare system (which you should probably fix before trying to legalize drugs; just cut out the insurance companies and go public).

1) Out of ALLLLLLL the public health systems in the world, do you know how many are projected to be or remain solvent over the next decade? There were 2 the last time I researched, a few months ago...TWO; the remainder are all scrambling, attempting to resolve their impending healthcare system crashes. Thinking about it now, due to the Syrian refugee crisis, one of the two systems projecting solvency over the next decade may not actually be solvent in a decade any longer.

2) One of the main reasons the State of Colorado was able to legalize recreational marijuana use, was due to the promise that the tax revenue would directly fund the state K-12 school system. Two years after legalization, the educational system has received a grand total of $0.00, yes ZERO dollars and ZERO cents of the so-called "tax revenue" generated by legalization. So why would you think we could magically generate all this tax revenue for the healthcare system?

Anyway, hope you learned something or found something of interest for you to research :)
MakeSensePeopleDont
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12/14/2015 9:34:58 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/14/2015 8:40:03 AM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/14/2015 8:18:05 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:

1) Please clarify the ambiguous "Legalize Drugs". What drugs?

The average person knows what I mean by "drugs", so there is no need to discuss this.

Well seeing how we tend to have new illegal drugs on the streets each year, with increasing frequency, the label "drugs" or term "Legalize Drugs" is about as ambiguous as you could possibly be.

Every time someone throws chemicals in a bowl and comes up with a new drug, are you allowing it?

2) The first roadblock will be the FDA which requires extensive testing, clinical trials, documentation, fees, and more just to be considered for approval in the U.S. Keep in mind, I am skipping straight to the FDA, skipping all previous steps. Once all prerequisites are completed, the FDA will review and either send it back for further testing or approve it for market. This process with the FDA, assuming everything go as planned, takes somewhere in the ballpark of six to eight years to complete. This must be completed for all currently illegal drugs in use today.

We already know the pros and cons of smoking pot, so the FDA's involvement is minimal.

Yeah, however, you're failing to account for the fact that marijuana was in testing for FDA approval for decades though; they didn't wake up one morning and say "OH! Marijuana is legal today, let me throw a few buds in this tube...drop the tube in this spiny machine and hit number 2" *Two hours later* "Alright, let's see what the receipt says."

Sorry for the sarcastic tone there, not an attack on you, just making a point.

3) In terms of the street market, it takes a street chemist about an hour to get a new drug tested and approved or denied.

4) A small team of chemists can design and develop dozens of new drugs at one time

Why do it on the street for pocket change, when you can join big pharma for a modest salary and the relative certainty of not getting shot?

The same reasons so many people currently play kitchen chemist instead of getting a job as a chemist?

5) Additionally, while a pharmaceutical company must use the highest of quality ingredients and follow and massive list of policies and procedures, a street chemist simply needs to walk out to his garage in his PJs, sit down at a workbench and start tossing together combos of whatever chemicals he has laying around the house

Hence why people would be more likely to buy from big pharma.

At a minimum of 300% over street value? Tell you this much, I went to CO on vacation and went to get some herb, saw it was $35 a gram, laughed and walked out. What makes you think addicts using hard drugs are gonna be any different?

6) So, while legal drug prices will be sky high and the system takes almost a decade to get a new drug on the market, the Cartel chemists will be pumping out handfuls of new drugs, selling on the street for a fraction of the cost

So the problem will be solved in a decade.

Think about it...seriously think about this. You design a drug today; meanwhile, the kitchen chemist designs something similar. He calls his local test addict, a couple hours later he has his thumbs up and is starting mass production. He takes a month off, then comes back and starts designing something even better than that one. Conversely, for the next 10 years, you work on that one, single drug and getting it approved for public use. By the time you move to the next step, improving on your original design, you're 10 years of design and trial and error behind the kitchen chemist.

7) Let's examine legal marijuana for example. On the street, a gram of good bud goes for $8 - $10, with a gram of very high grade bud going for $15-$20. Conversely, using CO as reference, a gram of good bud goes for $25, with a gram of very high grade bud going for $35

The Cartels aren't going to financially collapse if you legalize drugs in the U.S. They will indeed take a hit to the market sector who can afford $25 - $35 for a gram of pot as well as the sector that rarely smokes so $35 a gram isn't that bad once or twice a month.

Hard drugs will cost much more and (keeping it very short here) hard drugs generally lead to lack of ability to hold employment, or employment with decent pay. Low income hard drug users and those on government assistance won't be able to afford legal market costs, so they will remain with the illegal street dealers. With the market trends over the past decade moving away from marijuana and to the harder, stimulant drugs; Cartel customer flow will increase and more individuals will be undoubtedly become stuck with the illegal street dealers, which will actually not only makeup for the loss in marijuana revenue, but increase overall income for the Cartels.

Okay, so the cartels won't disappear completely. However, their income will go down, which reduces their power, which weakens their hold on things down south. Assuming my chain of cause-and-effect holds, there should still be some mild improvement down there, which might reduce the number of illegal immigrants.

How? Following my logical set of events above, the cartel customer base for hard drugs will increase, which will more than make up for loss in marijuana revenues.

Finally, you don't seem to understand the roots of the Mexican Cartel power base. They aren't powerful because of the money, they are powerful because they are the most violent groups on the planet. You think getting your head sawed off by ISIS is bad? Try getting locked in a 50 gallon drum filled with hydrofluoric acid, or waking up in said drum, being doused with gasoline and lit on fire, burned alive; or maybe you fancy having your Achilles tendons severed and the nerves in your armpits crushed so you can't move an inch, then left out in the desert on your face for the coyotes to slowly snack on over a few days or more; but hey, if you're not a gore kind of person, there's always the popular option of being forced to watch your wife, sisters, daughters, mom, etc. being gang rapped a few times a week.

That's the root of Cartel power and control; fear, not cash. And guess what...some of the most violent areas, you can literally sit at the river and see, a stone's throw away; watch the lookouts spotting border patrol for the mules to cross safely, every now and then a drunk soldier pulls out a rifle and starts taking pot shots across the border or at the choppers. But hey, just legalize "drugs" and it'll all be fine right?
SM2
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12/14/2015 9:40:49 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/14/2015 9:34:58 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
How? Following my logical set of events above, the cartel customer base for hard drugs will increase, which will more than make up for loss in marijuana revenues.

You presented that as the result of shifting demand, not legalization. So, worst-case scenario, legalizing heroin would have no effect whatsoever.
thett3
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12/14/2015 9:43:22 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
Tump will create a deportation army of 6'+ blonde haired, blue eyed ubermensch and after the deportation war will use his veteran army to liberate Europe from the socialist menace
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
smelisox
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12/14/2015 9:53:14 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.

I've been saying this for years. The Cartels would collapse in an afternoon if the Mexican government just legalised and monitored all drugs.
SM2
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12/14/2015 11:43:02 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/14/2015 9:53:14 PM, smelisox wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.

I've been saying this for years. The Cartels would collapse in an afternoon if the Mexican government just legalised and monitored all drugs.

Do you have any data to back this up? As you may have noticed, I don't.
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
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12/15/2015 12:07:22 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/14/2015 9:40:49 PM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/14/2015 9:34:58 AM, MakeSensePeopleDont wrote:
How? Following my logical set of events above, the cartel customer base for hard drugs will increase, which will more than make up for loss in marijuana revenues.

You presented that as the result of shifting demand, not legalization.

The shift in demand for marijuana is a factual process that has been happening. Marijuana users are leaving the opiate side of the spectrum and moving to either hallucinogenics or stimulants.

So, worst-case scenario, legalizing heroin would have no effect whatsoever.

What? How did we go from the ambiguous "legalizing drugs" to the very specific "Heroin"? Additionally, a few minutes of research on the subject would teach you that the shift in demand is between spectrum barriers (or effects of drugs) as mentioned above. Since marijuana and Heroin are both on the Opiate (or downer) end of the spectrum, your proposed migration of user demand does not fit the facts and data.
MakeSensePeopleDont
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12/15/2015 12:11:55 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/14/2015 11:43:02 PM, SM2 wrote:
At 12/14/2015 9:53:14 PM, smelisox wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Find the flaw in this strategy.

I've been saying this for years. The Cartels would collapse in an afternoon if the Mexican government just legalised and monitored all drugs.

Do you have any data to back this up? As you may have noticed, I don't.

Supporting Data

1) I've been saying this for years. The Cartels would collapse in an afternoon if the Mexican government just legalised and monitored all drugs.

2) Do you have any data to back this up? As you may have noticed, I don't.

After reviewing this supporting data, it is clear that you both lack even the most basic understanding of Mexico, the Mexican Cartels, or their relationships.

Basic research would inform you that the Cartels ARE the Mexican government for the most part. The Cartels run the Mexican Police, the local and national governments, and even the Mexican Border Patrol.
spacetime
Posts: 449
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12/15/2015 1:11:37 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/14/2015 12:52:38 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Also, heavily regulated drugs will likely be more expensive than their illicit counterparts,

Not even close. Read this: http://money.howstuffworks.com...

The raw cost of producing a pound of high-grade marijuana is less than $20. The black market price for the same thing is $6400. The cost of illegally producing and smuggling marijuana is way higher than you'd expect. You honestly think regulations like the ones mentioned in this thread are gonna raise the price by 320-fold? That's absurd. Even if the legal marijuana producers wanted to make obscenely large profit margins, the final market price would still be far, far lower than any price the Mexican drug cartels could offer. It isn't even debatable -- cartels would definitely be put out of business by drug legalization.
Call me King Pootie Tang.
spacetime
Posts: 449
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12/15/2015 1:14:13 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/14/2015 12:14:00 AM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 10:58:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
Age and driving restrictions on all drugs.

Can only be purchased at licensed premises.

Hard stuff must be purchased and used at licensed opium den, and customer must be sober before leaving. Medical staff must be on premises at all times.

Suppliers and manufacturers must meet strict quality standards, and abide by Health and Safety regulations.

Drug sales are taxed, to lessen the resulting burden upon the Healthcare system (which you should probably fix before trying to legalize drugs; just cut out the insurance companies and go public).

I'd also throw in "no public usage of recreational drugs."

Yep. All of those look good. I'd also like to see addiction rehab programs funded by the revenues from drug taxes.
Call me King Pootie Tang.
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
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12/15/2015 9:19:10 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 1:14:13 AM, spacetime wrote:
At 12/14/2015 12:14:00 AM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 10:58:14 PM, SM2 wrote:
Age and driving restrictions on all drugs.

Can only be purchased at licensed premises.

Hard stuff must be purchased and used at licensed opium den, and customer must be sober before leaving. Medical staff must be on premises at all times.

Suppliers and manufacturers must meet strict quality standards, and abide by Health and Safety regulations.

Drug sales are taxed, to lessen the resulting burden upon the Healthcare system (which you should probably fix before trying to legalize drugs; just cut out the insurance companies and go public).

I'd also throw in "no public usage of recreational drugs."

Yep. All of those look good. I'd also like to see addiction rehab programs funded by the revenues from drug taxes.

So not only are you going to "offset" (meaning no less than break even) on the increased cost of healthcare for the hard drug addicts, but you are ALSO going to fund rehab programs using what I am assuming you believe to be a projected EXCESS of tax revenue after funding the healthcare system?

Could you show me some calculations, estimates, equations, or something on this?

Two years in and Colorado has still yet to contribute a single, solitary penny of their recreational marijuana tax revenue on the K-12 educational system...which was a major selling point to get legalization. I struggle to see where $0.00 contribution verified over the span of 2 years equates to a sudden money tree for healthcare and rehab.
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
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12/15/2015 9:45:54 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 1:11:37 AM, spacetime wrote:
At 12/14/2015 12:52:38 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Also, heavily regulated drugs will likely be more expensive than their illicit counterparts,

Not even close. Read this: http://money.howstuffworks.com...

The raw cost of producing a pound of high-grade marijuana is less than $20. The black market price for the same thing is $6400. The cost of illegally producing and smuggling marijuana is way higher than you'd expect. You honestly think regulations like the ones mentioned in this thread are gonna raise the price by 320-fold? That's absurd. Even if the legal marijuana producers wanted to make obscenely large profit margins, the final market price would still be far, far lower than any price the Mexican drug cartels could offer. It isn't even debatable -- cartels would definitely be put out of business by drug legalization.

Did you take the time to read and understand that "study"?

1) It costs 20 cents per pound to produce HEMP, not pot

2) The 20 cents a lb for hemp was also given by...THE INDUSTRIAL HEMP FARMERS OF CANADA. You know...the guys marketing their products as better than every other product. Not to mention the key words there of INDUSTRIAL as well as HEMP

3) Greenhouses are used in the U.S. for pot growers, as well as forced budding to increase yield and decrease growth time.

4) Do you know how much U.S. pot farmers are paying for electric in their greenhouses and warehouses? Ehhhhh a slim 5 - 6 figures....A MONTH

5) Hey, maybe regulations don't increase prices over 300%, but they do have another effect, which was just HEAVILY felt in CO...denial of ability to sell a large portion of each yield. A recent, 2015 regulation change destroyed about 70% of the farmer's yearly crop

6) Would you like me to continue into the legal battles, regulation of max yield, caps placed on stockpile amounts between plantings, etc.? I mean we haven't even scratched the surface buddy. This isn't just "go in your backyard, get out the old computerized tractor with 60 foot wide action arms and plant your 40 acre farm lands with tens of thousands of plants 3-4 times a year.
Mr_Anderson
Posts: 116
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12/15/2015 2:47:07 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/14/2015 12:26:14 AM, beng100 wrote:
At 12/13/2015 9:48:04 PM, SM2 wrote:
Legalize drugs.

No this would lead to increased drug use, drug addictions, drug deaths, drug driving, drug overdoses, drug users, healthcare costs and a reduced life expectancy. This offsets any immigration benefits.

Do that, and the cartels lose money.

True but offset by other issues.

Cartels lose money, they lose power.

Also true but again not worth the negatives.

They lose power, they can't corrupt Central and South America.

Potentially

Corruption goes down, conditions improve.

Marginally

Better conditions, less desperation to escape.

Marginally

Less desperation, less illegal immigration.

Marginally

Find the flaw in this strategy.

Fundamentaly flawed strategy. Leads to massive drug problems for minor benefits.

+1