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30% Republicans wanna bomb Aladdin's hometown

imabench
Posts: 21,206
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12/19/2015 5:20:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
A serious poll recently pulled a fast-one on people by asking them if they wanted to bomb Agrabah, the home city of Aladdin from the Disney Movie Aladdin....

57% of GOP voters were not sure, another 13% opposed, and 30% were unsure

Half the GOPers who want to bomb Agrabah support Trump as well....

http://www.theguardian.com...

Weirdly enough, 19% of Democrats also wanted to bomb Agrabah, and 36% opposed it, with the remaining 45% being unsure

Just wanted to bring this up and point out that about 20% of everyone in the country is apparently an idiot. Thoughts?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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12/19/2015 5:23:48 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 5:20:01 AM, imabench wrote:
A serious poll recently pulled a fast-one on people by asking them if they wanted to bomb Agrabah, the home city of Aladdin from the Disney Movie Aladdin....

57% of GOP voters were not sure, another 13% opposed, and 30% were unsure
hmmmm

Half the GOPers who want to bomb Agrabah support Trump as well....
Not surprised in the least

http://www.theguardian.com...

Weirdly enough, 19% of Democrats also wanted to bomb Agrabah, and 36% opposed it, with the remaining 45% being unsure

Just wanted to bring this up and point out that about 20% of everyone in the country is apparently an idiot. Thoughts?

Wouldn't it be closer to 1/4 of people are idiots?
And, to be fair, is it that they are idiots for not recognizing a fictional town from 20 years ago, or are they just that zealous in their bias/hate that they would bomb any Arabic sounding town without knowing why?
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
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12/19/2015 5:24:55 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 5:23:48 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 12/19/2015 5:20:01 AM, imabench wrote:
A serious poll recently pulled a fast-one on people by asking them if they wanted to bomb Agrabah, the home city of Aladdin from the Disney Movie Aladdin....

57% of GOP voters were not sure, another 13% opposed, and 30% were unsure
hmmmm

Half the GOPers who want to bomb Agrabah support Trump as well....
Not surprised in the least

http://www.theguardian.com...

Weirdly enough, 19% of Democrats also wanted to bomb Agrabah, and 36% opposed it, with the remaining 45% being unsure

Just wanted to bring this up and point out that about 20% of everyone in the country is apparently an idiot. Thoughts?

Wouldn't it be closer to 1/4 of people are idiots?
And, to be fair, is it that they are idiots for not recognizing a fictional town from 20 years ago, or are they just that zealous in their bias/hate that they would bomb any Arabic sounding town without knowing why?

And, actually, my defense of their idiocy is actually worse than them just being idiots :/
My work here is, finally, done.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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12/19/2015 5:29:25 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 5:25:18 AM, Volkov wrote:
I sincerely hope the bombing campaign is called "Operation Flying Carpet."

+1 XD
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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12/20/2015 4:01:36 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 5:25:18 AM, Volkov wrote:
I sincerely hope the bombing campaign is called "Operation Flying Carpet."

- LOL!
Current Debates:

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UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,681
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12/20/2015 6:23:08 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 5:20:01 AM, imabench wrote:
A serious poll recently pulled a fast-one on people by asking them if they wanted to bomb Agrabah, the home city of Aladdin from the Disney Movie Aladdin....

57% of GOP voters were not sure, another 13% opposed, and 30% were unsure

Half the GOPers who want to bomb Agrabah support Trump as well....

http://www.theguardian.com...

Weirdly enough, 19% of Democrats also wanted to bomb Agrabah, and 36% opposed it, with the remaining 45% being unsure

Just wanted to bring this up and point out that about 20% of everyone in the country is apparently an idiot. Thoughts?

We shouldn't bomb Aghrabah, we should put sanctions on them for their role in the creation of Carpets of mass destruction
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
TBR
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12/20/2015 6:31:00 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 6:23:08 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 12/19/2015 5:20:01 AM, imabench wrote:
A serious poll recently pulled a fast-one on people by asking them if they wanted to bomb Agrabah, the home city of Aladdin from the Disney Movie Aladdin....

57% of GOP voters were not sure, another 13% opposed, and 30% were unsure

Half the GOPers who want to bomb Agrabah support Trump as well....

http://www.theguardian.com...

Weirdly enough, 19% of Democrats also wanted to bomb Agrabah, and 36% opposed it, with the remaining 45% being unsure

Just wanted to bring this up and point out that about 20% of everyone in the country is apparently an idiot. Thoughts?

We shouldn't bomb Aghrabah, we should put sanctions on them for their role in the creation of Carpets of mass destruction

Look Uter. If they wanted to avoid the can-o-whipass they are in for, they never should Jafar should never had messed with Jasmine or put OUR lamp gas in the Cave of Wonders.

At this point, they have no one to blame but themselves. We will install a stable democracy and the sultan can rot.
PetersSmith
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12/20/2015 6:39:43 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 5:20:01 AM, imabench wrote:
A serious poll recently pulled a fast-one on people by asking them if they wanted to bomb Agrabah, the home city of Aladdin from the Disney Movie Aladdin....

57% of GOP voters were not sure, another 13% opposed, and 30% were unsure

Half the GOPers who want to bomb Agrabah support Trump as well....

http://www.theguardian.com...

Weirdly enough, 19% of Democrats also wanted to bomb Agrabah, and 36% opposed it, with the remaining 45% being unsure

Just wanted to bring this up and point out that about 20% of everyone in the country is apparently an idiot. Thoughts?

They might have WMDs.
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000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/20/2015 6:42:24 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
This is actually stupid. If you're taking a poll and don't have the opportunity to ask what Agrabah is, and also don't have an option for admitting your ignorance on the matter, then you're going to assume the premise of the question is not deceptive (i.e. there is a place called agrabah and conducting airstrikes there is a reasonable option under consideration) and choose the option that generally aligns with your ideology. ("I'm not sure" doesn't imply ignorance of what Agrabah is, it implies indecision regarding the prospect of bombing it)

Even when posed to democrats, we get the same kind of numbers:
"We asked the Agrabah question to Dem primary voters too. They oppose bombing 'it' 36/19, while GOP supports bombing 'it' 30/13"

This poll is only funny by virtue of the appearance that the respondents are so ignorant or uninformed that they don't even know what they don't know. In reality, the poll is constructed in such a way that this result was only natural. That many people don't realize this, but just point at the poll and laugh, is just very troubling.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,070
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12/20/2015 6:44:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Explanations:
1. Some people polled had never heard of the country but assumed it existed because it was being discussed in a poll. They assumed that it was a middle eastern county and that Republican candidates were advocating the bombing of Agrabah for whatever reason and the Democratic candidates opposed such a measure. They assumed that the GOP side was right so they voted yes.
2. Some of them were trolling.
3. Some of them may have misread it as "Afghanistan" and as a result came to believe that the GOP was advocating bombing Taliban strongholds in Afghanistan.
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UtherPenguin
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12/20/2015 7:04:36 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 6:31:00 PM, TBR wrote:
At 12/20/2015 6:23:08 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 12/19/2015 5:20:01 AM, imabench wrote:
A serious poll recently pulled a fast-one on people by asking them if they wanted to bomb Agrabah, the home city of Aladdin from the Disney Movie Aladdin....

57% of GOP voters were not sure, another 13% opposed, and 30% were unsure

Half the GOPers who want to bomb Agrabah support Trump as well....

http://www.theguardian.com...

Weirdly enough, 19% of Democrats also wanted to bomb Agrabah, and 36% opposed it, with the remaining 45% being unsure

Just wanted to bring this up and point out that about 20% of everyone in the country is apparently an idiot. Thoughts?

We shouldn't bomb Aghrabah, we should put sanctions on them for their role in the creation of Carpets of mass destruction

Look Uter. If they wanted to avoid the can-o-whipass they are in for, they never should Jafar should never had messed with Jasmine or put OUR lamp gas in the Cave of Wonders.

At this point, they have no one to blame but themselves. We will install a stable democracy and the sultan can rot.

We must liberate Agrabah from all it's oppressed resources
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
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12/20/2015 7:06:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 6:42:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
This is actually stupid. If you're taking a poll and don't have the opportunity to ask what Agrabah is, and also don't have an option for admitting your ignorance on the matter, then you're going to assume the premise of the question is not deceptive (i.e. there is a place called agrabah and conducting airstrikes there is a reasonable option under consideration) and choose the option that generally aligns with your ideology. ("I'm not sure" doesn't imply ignorance of what Agrabah is, it implies indecision regarding the prospect of bombing it)

Even when posed to democrats, we get the same kind of numbers:
"We asked the Agrabah question to Dem primary voters too. They oppose bombing 'it' 36/19, while GOP supports bombing 'it' 30/13"

This poll is only funny by virtue of the appearance that the respondents are so ignorant or uninformed that they don't even know what they don't know. In reality, the poll is constructed in such a way that this result was only natural. That many people don't realize this, but just point at the poll and laugh, is just very troubling.

Lol what. If you're in support of bombing a country you should at least have some idea about the reasoning behind it. To support it merely because it's "on the table" is extremely irresponsible. The "bomb 'em all" policy would only be excusable if one knew that all the countries were in fact worth bombing. Since Agrabah doesn't even exist, we know for a fact that everyone who voted yes in this poll was out of line.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/20/2015 7:33:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 7:06:56 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 6:42:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
This is actually stupid. If you're taking a poll and don't have the opportunity to ask what Agrabah is, and also don't have an option for admitting your ignorance on the matter, then you're going to assume the premise of the question is not deceptive (i.e. there is a place called agrabah and conducting airstrikes there is a reasonable option under consideration) and choose the option that generally aligns with your ideology. ("I'm not sure" doesn't imply ignorance of what Agrabah is, it implies indecision regarding the prospect of bombing it)

Even when posed to democrats, we get the same kind of numbers:
"We asked the Agrabah question to Dem primary voters too. They oppose bombing 'it' 36/19, while GOP supports bombing 'it' 30/13"

This poll is only funny by virtue of the appearance that the respondents are so ignorant or uninformed that they don't even know what they don't know. In reality, the poll is constructed in such a way that this result was only natural. That many people don't realize this, but just point at the poll and laugh, is just very troubling.

Lol what. If you're in support of bombing a country you should at least have some idea about the reasoning behind it. To support it merely because it's "on the table" is extremely irresponsible. The "bomb 'em all" policy would only be excusable if one knew that all the countries were in fact worth bombing. Since Agrabah doesn't even exist, we know for a fact that everyone who voted yes in this poll was out of line.

I highly doubt they selected that option for no reason at all. Again, they made a series of assumptions: 1. the question is not duplicitous, 2. the fact that bombing this region is under consideration must indicate that doing so has the potential to further the U.S's campaign against ISIS, 3. what's at issue is likely whether or not collateral damage (harm to civilians) should preclude this potentially helpful military advance. Once those assumptions are made, a basic ideological calculus directs respondents to the position that comports best with their view regarding such circumstances in general.
These assumptions would most likely not follow if an option was included that would allow respondents to clearly profess a lack of knowledge,... the ambiguity of what's expressed by "I'm not sure" is the reason why many didn't choose it. "I'm not sure" could imply 'I don't have any persuasion with regard to bombing middleeastern cities when doing so might provide a strategic advantage" rather than "I don't know what Agrabah is"

This isn't to justify their responses though (and I sense that this is a nuance that's lost on you). It's obvious that no matter how you look at it, the response is unjustified and that "I'm not sure" is preferable. However, I'm just identifying a methodological error in the framing of the question that leads people to make certain assumptions and thereby obscures the meaning of the data. The study professes, blind and pretty much insensate ignorance of voters, when in reality it probably only shows a general impetuousness or lack of careful deliberation,....and that's simply not quite as funny.

tl;dr. Basically you find this funny because you're taking the results at face value rather than critically examining what the results actually mean vis-a-vis what it's purported to mean.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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12/20/2015 7:39:10 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 6:42:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
This is actually stupid. If you're taking a poll and don't have the opportunity to ask what Agrabah is, and also don't have an option for admitting your ignorance on the matter, then you're going to assume the premise of the question is not deceptive (i.e. there is a place called agrabah and conducting airstrikes there is a reasonable option under consideration) and choose the option that generally aligns with your ideology. ("I'm not sure" doesn't imply ignorance of what Agrabah is, it implies indecision regarding the prospect of bombing it)

Even when posed to democrats, we get the same kind of numbers:
"We asked the Agrabah question to Dem primary voters too. They oppose bombing 'it' 36/19, while GOP supports bombing 'it' 30/13"

This poll is only funny by virtue of the appearance that the respondents are so ignorant or uninformed that they don't even know what they don't know. In reality, the poll is constructed in such a way that this result was only natural. That many people don't realize this, but just point at the poll and laugh, is just very troubling.

This is just as bad as Hillary supporters supporting Trump's tax plan.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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12/20/2015 7:46:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 5:25:18 AM, Volkov wrote:
I sincerely hope the bombing campaign is called "Operation Flying Carpet."

-:D
Never fart near dog
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
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12/20/2015 7:52:13 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 7:33:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 7:06:56 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 6:42:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
This is actually stupid. If you're taking a poll and don't have the opportunity to ask what Agrabah is, and also don't have an option for admitting your ignorance on the matter, then you're going to assume the premise of the question is not deceptive (i.e. there is a place called agrabah and conducting airstrikes there is a reasonable option under consideration) and choose the option that generally aligns with your ideology. ("I'm not sure" doesn't imply ignorance of what Agrabah is, it implies indecision regarding the prospect of bombing it)

Even when posed to democrats, we get the same kind of numbers:
"We asked the Agrabah question to Dem primary voters too. They oppose bombing 'it' 36/19, while GOP supports bombing 'it' 30/13"

This poll is only funny by virtue of the appearance that the respondents are so ignorant or uninformed that they don't even know what they don't know. In reality, the poll is constructed in such a way that this result was only natural. That many people don't realize this, but just point at the poll and laugh, is just very troubling.

Lol what. If you're in support of bombing a country you should at least have some idea about the reasoning behind it. To support it merely because it's "on the table" is extremely irresponsible. The "bomb 'em all" policy would only be excusable if one knew that all the countries were in fact worth bombing. Since Agrabah doesn't even exist, we know for a fact that everyone who voted yes in this poll was out of line.

I highly doubt they selected that option for no reason at all. Again, they made a series of assumptions: 1. the question is not duplicitous, 2. the fact that bombing this region is under consideration must indicate that doing so has the potential to further the U.S's campaign against ISIS, 3. what's at issue is likely whether or not collateral damage (harm to civilians) should preclude this potentially helpful military advance. Once those assumptions are made, a basic ideological calculus directs respondents to the position that comports best with their view regarding such circumstances in general.
These assumptions would most likely not follow if an option was included that would allow respondents to clearly profess a lack of knowledge,... the ambiguity of what's expressed by "I'm not sure" is the reason why many didn't choose it. "I'm not sure" could imply 'I don't have any persuasion with regard to bombing middleeastern cities when doing so might provide a strategic advantage" rather than "I don't know what Agrabah is"

This isn't to justify their responses though (and I sense that this is a nuance that's lost on you). It's obvious that no matter how you look at it, the response is unjustified and that "I'm not sure" is preferable. However, I'm just identifying a methodological error in the framing of the question that leads people to make certain assumptions and thereby obscures the meaning of the data. The study professes, blind and pretty much insensate ignorance of voters, when in reality it probably only shows a general impetuousness or lack of careful deliberation,....and that's simply not quite as funny.

tl;dr. Basically you find this funny because you're taking the results at face value rather than critically examining what the results actually mean vis-a-vis what it's purported to mean.

Of course they didn't select yes for no reason. But their reasoning is no better than someone on a jury saying "Yeah, let's execute this guy 'cause I see a lot of news stories about blacks committing violence so he's probably guilty". The respondents should only have been fooled to the extent they took the question seriously. Just because they were posed with a bogus question doesn't mean they aren't responsible for the answers they gave. Again, I'm not surprised by this result, but just because I expected it doesn't make it okay. People should know what they're talking about before they give their opinions. This poll proves that many people find that step unnecessary, which is a big problem for any democracy.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/20/2015 7:54:19 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 7:52:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 7:33:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 7:06:56 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 6:42:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
This is actually stupid. If you're taking a poll and don't have the opportunity to ask what Agrabah is, and also don't have an option for admitting your ignorance on the matter, then you're going to assume the premise of the question is not deceptive (i.e. there is a place called agrabah and conducting airstrikes there is a reasonable option under consideration) and choose the option that generally aligns with your ideology. ("I'm not sure" doesn't imply ignorance of what Agrabah is, it implies indecision regarding the prospect of bombing it)

Even when posed to democrats, we get the same kind of numbers:
"We asked the Agrabah question to Dem primary voters too. They oppose bombing 'it' 36/19, while GOP supports bombing 'it' 30/13"

This poll is only funny by virtue of the appearance that the respondents are so ignorant or uninformed that they don't even know what they don't know. In reality, the poll is constructed in such a way that this result was only natural. That many people don't realize this, but just point at the poll and laugh, is just very troubling.

Lol what. If you're in support of bombing a country you should at least have some idea about the reasoning behind it. To support it merely because it's "on the table" is extremely irresponsible. The "bomb 'em all" policy would only be excusable if one knew that all the countries were in fact worth bombing. Since Agrabah doesn't even exist, we know for a fact that everyone who voted yes in this poll was out of line.

I highly doubt they selected that option for no reason at all. Again, they made a series of assumptions: 1. the question is not duplicitous, 2. the fact that bombing this region is under consideration must indicate that doing so has the potential to further the U.S's campaign against ISIS, 3. what's at issue is likely whether or not collateral damage (harm to civilians) should preclude this potentially helpful military advance. Once those assumptions are made, a basic ideological calculus directs respondents to the position that comports best with their view regarding such circumstances in general.
These assumptions would most likely not follow if an option was included that would allow respondents to clearly profess a lack of knowledge,... the ambiguity of what's expressed by "I'm not sure" is the reason why many didn't choose it. "I'm not sure" could imply 'I don't have any persuasion with regard to bombing middleeastern cities when doing so might provide a strategic advantage" rather than "I don't know what Agrabah is"

This isn't to justify their responses though (and I sense that this is a nuance that's lost on you). It's obvious that no matter how you look at it, the response is unjustified and that "I'm not sure" is preferable. However, I'm just identifying a methodological error in the framing of the question that leads people to make certain assumptions and thereby obscures the meaning of the data. The study professes, blind and pretty much insensate ignorance of voters, when in reality it probably only shows a general impetuousness or lack of careful deliberation,....and that's simply not quite as funny.

tl;dr. Basically you find this funny because you're taking the results at face value rather than critically examining what the results actually mean vis-a-vis what it's purported to mean.

Of course they didn't select yes for no reason. But their reasoning is no better than someone on a jury saying "Yeah, let's execute this guy 'cause I see a lot of news stories about blacks committing violence so he's probably guilty". The respondents should only have been fooled to the extent they took the question seriously. Just because they were posed with a bogus question doesn't mean they aren't responsible for the answers they gave. Again, I'm not surprised by this result, but just because I expected it doesn't make it okay. People should know what they're talking about before they give their opinions. This poll proves that many people find that step unnecessary, which is a big problem for any democracy.

"This isn't to justify their responses though (and I sense that this is a nuance that's lost on you)"
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
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12/20/2015 8:32:11 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 7:54:19 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 7:52:13 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 7:33:29 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 7:06:56 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 6:42:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
This is actually stupid. If you're taking a poll and don't have the opportunity to ask what Agrabah is, and also don't have an option for admitting your ignorance on the matter, then you're going to assume the premise of the question is not deceptive (i.e. there is a place called agrabah and conducting airstrikes there is a reasonable option under consideration) and choose the option that generally aligns with your ideology. ("I'm not sure" doesn't imply ignorance of what Agrabah is, it implies indecision regarding the prospect of bombing it)

Even when posed to democrats, we get the same kind of numbers:
"We asked the Agrabah question to Dem primary voters too. They oppose bombing 'it' 36/19, while GOP supports bombing 'it' 30/13"

This poll is only funny by virtue of the appearance that the respondents are so ignorant or uninformed that they don't even know what they don't know. In reality, the poll is constructed in such a way that this result was only natural. That many people don't realize this, but just point at the poll and laugh, is just very troubling.

Lol what. If you're in support of bombing a country you should at least have some idea about the reasoning behind it. To support it merely because it's "on the table" is extremely irresponsible. The "bomb 'em all" policy would only be excusable if one knew that all the countries were in fact worth bombing. Since Agrabah doesn't even exist, we know for a fact that everyone who voted yes in this poll was out of line.

I highly doubt they selected that option for no reason at all. Again, they made a series of assumptions: 1. the question is not duplicitous, 2. the fact that bombing this region is under consideration must indicate that doing so has the potential to further the U.S's campaign against ISIS, 3. what's at issue is likely whether or not collateral damage (harm to civilians) should preclude this potentially helpful military advance. Once those assumptions are made, a basic ideological calculus directs respondents to the position that comports best with their view regarding such circumstances in general.
These assumptions would most likely not follow if an option was included that would allow respondents to clearly profess a lack of knowledge,... the ambiguity of what's expressed by "I'm not sure" is the reason why many didn't choose it. "I'm not sure" could imply 'I don't have any persuasion with regard to bombing middleeastern cities when doing so might provide a strategic advantage" rather than "I don't know what Agrabah is"

This isn't to justify their responses though (and I sense that this is a nuance that's lost on you). It's obvious that no matter how you look at it, the response is unjustified and that "I'm not sure" is preferable. However, I'm just identifying a methodological error in the framing of the question that leads people to make certain assumptions and thereby obscures the meaning of the data. The study professes, blind and pretty much insensate ignorance of voters, when in reality it probably only shows a general impetuousness or lack of careful deliberation,....and that's simply not quite as funny.

tl;dr. Basically you find this funny because you're taking the results at face value rather than critically examining what the results actually mean vis-a-vis what it's purported to mean.

Of course they didn't select yes for no reason. But their reasoning is no better than someone on a jury saying "Yeah, let's execute this guy 'cause I see a lot of news stories about blacks committing violence so he's probably guilty". The respondents should only have been fooled to the extent they took the question seriously. Just because they were posed with a bogus question doesn't mean they aren't responsible for the answers they gave. Again, I'm not surprised by this result, but just because I expected it doesn't make it okay. People should know what they're talking about before they give their opinions. This poll proves that many people find that step unnecessary, which is a big problem for any democracy.

"This isn't to justify their responses though (and I sense that this is a nuance that's lost on you)"

Then I don't understand your original post, which seemed to imply that it's somehow unfair or pointless to criticize the respondents who voted yes. Who exactly in this thread are you disagreeing with?
000ike
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12/20/2015 8:48:01 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 8:32:11 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Then I don't understand your original post, which seemed to imply that it's somehow unfair or pointless to criticize the respondents who voted yes. Who exactly in this thread are you disagreeing with?

Nope. My point was quite clear. The poll isn't quite so funny if you understand that the entailment of those results is ambiguous. Making assumptions without suspicion of mendacity in the premise of the question and then prescribing for oneself a position according to some pre-set ideological algorithm isn't quite as funny or shocking as blindly confabulating a position on a matter that is not (and has never been) in issue.

The humor of the poll's results is resident in the appearance of the latter.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/20/2015 8:52:34 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
A second relevant point is that the headline unfairly directs attention to the GOP when the same phenomenon was observed among liberal respondents, and to almost exactly the same degree.

So yes, the poll results don't say anything new, interesting, or funny. It was poorly conducted and then presented tendentiously.... and that makes the rampant chatter over it,...frankly..stupid.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
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12/20/2015 9:13:12 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 8:48:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 8:32:11 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Then I don't understand your original post, which seemed to imply that it's somehow unfair or pointless to criticize the respondents who voted yes. Who exactly in this thread are you disagreeing with?

Nope. My point was quite clear. The poll isn't quite so funny if you understand that the entailment of those results is ambiguous. Making assumptions without suspicion of mendacity in the premise of the question and then prescribing for oneself a position according to some pre-set ideological algorithm isn't quite as funny or shocking as blindly confabulating a position on a matter that is not (and has never been) in issue.

The humor of the poll's results is resident in the appearance of the latter.

I understand your point. What I don't understand is how it's consistent with your subsequent posts.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/20/2015 9:26:21 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 9:13:12 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 8:48:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 8:32:11 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Then I don't understand your original post, which seemed to imply that it's somehow unfair or pointless to criticize the respondents who voted yes. Who exactly in this thread are you disagreeing with?

Nope. My point was quite clear. The poll isn't quite so funny if you understand that the entailment of those results is ambiguous. Making assumptions without suspicion of mendacity in the premise of the question and then prescribing for oneself a position according to some pre-set ideological algorithm isn't quite as funny or shocking as blindly confabulating a position on a matter that is not (and has never been) in issue.

The humor of the poll's results is resident in the appearance of the latter.

I understand your point. What I don't understand is how it's consistent with your subsequent posts.

I don't know what inconsistency you're referring to. And on a second reading of my comments, I can't find one.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/20/2015 9:30:37 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 9:26:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:13:12 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 8:48:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 8:32:11 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Then I don't understand your original post, which seemed to imply that it's somehow unfair or pointless to criticize the respondents who voted yes. Who exactly in this thread are you disagreeing with?

Nope. My point was quite clear. The poll isn't quite so funny if you understand that the entailment of those results is ambiguous. Making assumptions without suspicion of mendacity in the premise of the question and then prescribing for oneself a position according to some pre-set ideological algorithm isn't quite as funny or shocking as blindly confabulating a position on a matter that is not (and has never been) in issue.

The humor of the poll's results is resident in the appearance of the latter.

I understand your point. What I don't understand is how it's consistent with your subsequent posts.

I don't know what inconsistency you're referring to. And on a second reading of my comments, I can't find one.

Your argument is sound, however, giggling at respondents is not something to shame people about. this poll showed a rift in thinking, and you speak to it. The GOP is more likly to want to bomb anything that sounds anything like it is from Islam. That is, and should be treated, as comically xenophobia.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,244
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12/20/2015 10:03:19 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 9:26:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:13:12 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 8:48:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 8:32:11 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Then I don't understand your original post, which seemed to imply that it's somehow unfair or pointless to criticize the respondents who voted yes. Who exactly in this thread are you disagreeing with?

Nope. My point was quite clear. The poll isn't quite so funny if you understand that the entailment of those results is ambiguous. Making assumptions without suspicion of mendacity in the premise of the question and then prescribing for oneself a position according to some pre-set ideological algorithm isn't quite as funny or shocking as blindly confabulating a position on a matter that is not (and has never been) in issue.

The humor of the poll's results is resident in the appearance of the latter.

I understand your point. What I don't understand is how it's consistent with your subsequent posts.

I don't know what inconsistency you're referring to. And on a second reading of my comments, I can't find one.

"In reality, the poll is constructed in such a way that this result was only natural. That many people don't realize this, but just point at the poll and laugh, is just very troubling."

This is what I don't get. You admit that the people who voted yes were wrong to do so, so why is it wrong for people to laugh at the poll? I mean sure the result was to be expected, but so what? I just don't understand what you're criticizing when you say "This is actually stupid".
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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12/20/2015 10:21:42 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 10:03:19 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:26:21 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 9:13:12 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 8:48:01 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 12/20/2015 8:32:11 PM, dylancatlow wrote:

Then I don't understand your original post, which seemed to imply that it's somehow unfair or pointless to criticize the respondents who voted yes. Who exactly in this thread are you disagreeing with?

Nope. My point was quite clear. The poll isn't quite so funny if you understand that the entailment of those results is ambiguous. Making assumptions without suspicion of mendacity in the premise of the question and then prescribing for oneself a position according to some pre-set ideological algorithm isn't quite as funny or shocking as blindly confabulating a position on a matter that is not (and has never been) in issue.

The humor of the poll's results is resident in the appearance of the latter.

I understand your point. What I don't understand is how it's consistent with your subsequent posts.

I don't know what inconsistency you're referring to. And on a second reading of my comments, I can't find one.

"In reality, the poll is constructed in such a way that this result was only natural. That many people don't realize this, but just point at the poll and laugh, is just very troubling."

This is what I don't get. You admit that the people who voted yes were wrong to do so, so why is it wrong for people to laugh at the poll? I mean sure the result was to be expected, but so what? I just don't understand what you're criticizing when you say "This is actually stupid".

This isn't just about the results being predictable, but about them being solicited by framework of the question and it's options. The idea is that people think its funny because they think it shows more than it actually does. They think that people are so ignorant and so uninformed that they don't even know when they don't know something,....when that's not quite what it shows. That perception is where a lot of the humor is coming from. That's what I'm criticizing.

Again, I see no part of this that should be unclear to you.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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12/21/2015 2:25:46 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/19/2015 5:20:01 AM, imabench wrote:
A serious poll recently pulled a fast-one on people by asking them if they wanted to bomb Agrabah, the home city of Aladdin from the Disney Movie Aladdin....

57% of GOP voters were not sure, another 13% opposed, and 30% were unsure

Half the GOPers who want to bomb Agrabah support Trump as well....

http://www.theguardian.com...

Weirdly enough, 19% of Democrats also wanted to bomb Agrabah, and 36% opposed it, with the remaining 45% being unsure

Just wanted to bring this up and point out that about 20% of everyone in the country is apparently an idiot. Thoughts?

You can use one of these to do the job.
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/21/2015 2:42:35 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 6:42:24 PM, 000ike wrote:
This is actually stupid. If you're taking a poll and don't have the opportunity to ask what Agrabah is, and also don't have an option for admitting your ignorance on the matter, then you're going to assume the premise of the question is not deceptive (i.e. there is a place called agrabah and conducting airstrikes there is a reasonable option under consideration) and choose the option that generally aligns with your ideology. ("I'm not sure" doesn't imply ignorance of what Agrabah is, it implies indecision regarding the prospect of bombing it)

Even when posed to democrats, we get the same kind of numbers:
"We asked the Agrabah question to Dem primary voters too. They oppose bombing 'it' 36/19, while GOP supports bombing 'it' 30/13"

This poll is only funny by virtue of the appearance that the respondents are so ignorant or uninformed that they don't even know what they don't know. In reality, the poll is constructed in such a way that this result was only natural. That many people don't realize this, but just point at the poll and laugh, is just very troubling.

If you support bombing anything, you should at least know why you support it, where it's at, etc. There is also a dichtomoy between the dems and the gop. Most dems said no, which could translate to them not knowing enough about it to sa
say yes.

This poll is fukin hillaryous