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Food is RACIST!!!!

ben2974
Posts: 767
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12/21/2015 6:09:52 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
http://www.thedailybeast.com...

For the longest time it felt like I was reading an article from the onion.

The worst plight of our time: regressives
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/21/2015 8:02:52 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 6:09:52 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com...

For the longest time it felt like I was reading an article from the onion.

The worst plight of our time: regressives

Undoubtedly stupid. However, if you want me to find examples of college conservatives being stupid.... The problem is stupidity, not politics.
lamerde
Posts: 1,416
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12/21/2015 8:21:55 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
The link you provided was written by someone woefully uneducated about race-related matters...

We would have to start with a basic understanding of why cultural appropriation is a problem as well as why safe spaces are necessary, before even talking about why you thought this article was satire.

I also followed the link to their article about yoga at the "Canadian university" and it's just plain wrong. They weren't shut down because white people aren't allowed to practice yoga -__-
Why I ignore YYW:
http://www.debate.org...
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Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,305
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12/21/2015 9:07:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 6:09:52 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com...

For the longest time it felt like I was reading an article from the onion.

The worst plight of our time: regressives

Devouring other cultures has never been more tasty than this! Pass the homogeneity sauce please.
Dilara
Posts: 661
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12/21/2015 11:36:26 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
These entitled brats show no appreciation to the people who made them nice food. Imagine if you're the working class cook at Oberlin and some rich spoiled brat is complaining about the food you cooked them. Who cares if they used steamed chicken instead of fried chicken or ciabatta bread instead of baguette, the cooks tried to be nice and make Asian food and these brats can't even say thank you. How will you handle real problems if you can't handle steamed chicken?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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12/21/2015 11:55:26 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I simply don't believe that those people actually care about it. They just want something to feel indignant about.
Greyparrot
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12/22/2015 12:47:33 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 11:55:26 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
I simply don't believe that those people actually care about it. They just want something to feel indignant about.

It's like saying you don't like bacon.
Skynet
Posts: 674
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12/23/2015 12:22:32 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
This is the point where the ideological purists are overrun by the fanatics they succeeded in convincing. It always happens.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
MakeSensePeopleDont
Posts: 1,106
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12/23/2015 2:29:58 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 6:09:52 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com...

For the longest time it felt like I was reading an article from the onion.

The worst plight of our time: regressives

NO! You're a towel!

See, where's South Park when you need it :)
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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12/23/2015 5:27:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 8:21:55 PM, lamerde wrote:
The link you provided was written by someone woefully uneducated about race-related matters...

We would have to start with a basic understanding of why cultural appropriation is a problem as well as why safe spaces are necessary, before even talking about why you thought this article was satire.

I also followed the link to their article about yoga at the "Canadian university" and it's just plain wrong. They weren't shut down because white people aren't allowed to practice yoga -__-

I would actually be very interested in knowing why safe spaces are necessary. Of this matter, I have not heard any compelling reasons as to why they may be even useful.

I also do not see how cultural appropriation is a problem, but I have heard the common rationale that people have concerning it.
briantheliberal
Posts: 722
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12/23/2015 6:09:12 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/21/2015 6:09:52 PM, ben2974 wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com...

For the longest time it felt like I was reading an article from the onion.

The worst plight of our time: regressives

This is incredibly stupid, but has nothing to do with liberals in general. Unfortunately the regressive social justice morons of our society have invaded liberal politics and college campuses but they are far from being the 'worst' plight of our time. Ultra-conservative bigots are also making a voice for themselves, promoting white supremacy, anti-gay attitudes among other things. Stupidity is a virus.
lamerde
Posts: 1,416
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12/23/2015 7:18:13 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 5:27:46 AM, PeacefulChaos wrote:

I would actually be very interested in knowing why safe spaces are necessary. Of this matter, I have not heard any compelling reasons as to why they may be even useful.

Imagine trying to have a serious conversation about evolution with a Young Earth Creationist; or climate change with a climate change denier; or contagious diseases with an anti-vaxxer. It is not productive and only serves as a distraction for people trying to discuss an issue.

In this thread alone you have people with very strong opinions about race, who likely have never taken a basic course about it before. What safe spaces do is allow traditionally marginalized groups an opportunity to discuss issues pertinent to them without 1) having to justify their experiences to an outsider who can never understand and is not willing to listen and learn and 2) having to be cognizant of the "white gaze"*.

To expand a bit on 1, when you have detractors and deniers it only holds progress back and you waste a lot of time.

2, by virtue of being an oppressed minority we have to have some sense of community or belongingness to each other... I would compare safe spaces to a family dynamic, where you don't air your family grievances out in public because outsiders won't see things the same way you do (and they will often use your infighting against you).

*https://en.wikipedia.org...

I think this is an excellent piece, and it beautifully explains why I don't talk to white people about race: https://thsppl.com...

Though his conclusion is that we should, I see it as a waste of time to be honest.

Some pieces of that article that I think are relevant here:

"White people do not think in terms of we. White people have the privilege to interact with the social and political structures of our society as individuals. You are "you," I am "one of them." Whites are often not directly affected by racial oppression even in their own community, so what does not affect them locally has little chance of affecting them regionally or nationally. They have no need, nor often any real desire, to think in terms of a group. They are supported by the system, and so are mostly unaffected by it.
What they are affected by are attacks on their own character. To my aunt, the suggestion that "people in The North are racist" is an attack on her as a racist. She is unable to differentiate her participation within a racist system (upwardly mobile, not racially profiled, able to move to White suburbs, etc.) from an accusation that she, individually, is a racist. Without being able to make that differentiation, White people in general decide to vigorously defend their own personal non-racism, or point out that it doesn't exist because they don't see it. The result of this is an incessantly repeating argument where a Black person says "Racism still exists. It is real," and a white person argues "You're wrong, I'm not racist at all. I don't even see any racism." "

"Living every single day with institutionalized racism and then having to argue its very existence, is tiring, and saddening, and angering. Yet if we express any emotion while talking about it, we"re tone policed, told we're being angry. In fact, a key element in any racial argument in America is the Angry Black person, and racial discussions shut down when that person speaks. The Angry Black person invalidates any arguments about racism because they are "just being overly sensitive," or "too emotional," or" playing the race card. Or even worse, we're told that we are being racist (Does any intelligent person actually believe a systematically oppressed demographic has the ability to oppress those in power?)
But here is the irony, here"s the thing that all the angry Black people know, and no calmly debating White people want to admit: The entire discussion of race in America centers around the protection of White feelings."

TL;DR: Safe spaces are necessary because including non-members in the discussion changes the nature of the discussion and is not productive for the members of marginalized communities to talk about issues pertinent to them.

I also do not see how cultural appropriation is a problem, but I have heard the common rationale that people have concerning it.
Why I ignore YYW:
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
1harderthanyouthink
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12/23/2015 7:50:51 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I thought we knew food was racist already.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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12/23/2015 7:12:43 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 7:18:13 AM, lamerde wrote:

My apologies for writing such a lengthy response.


In this thread alone you have people with very strong opinions about race, who likely have never taken a basic course about it before. What safe spaces do is allow traditionally marginalized groups an opportunity to discuss issues pertinent to them ...

My first point of contention is that you describe people as "traditionally marginalized groups." This contention is present throughout the following discussion, so perhaps you could spend time discussing it with me. It is often the crux of most arguments you present and is thus integral to everything said.

I am often not convinced that minorities in developed countries such as the United States are marginalized or discriminated against on a systematic level. For example, consider the latest student protests at the university of Missouri. Students claim to be systematically oppressed, yet they actually suffered an instance of individual racism. One person drew a swastika made of feces on the wall. The university condemned the action and did its best to support the students. Tim Wolfe, from beginning to end, was supportive of them, yet they called for his resignation. In every instance of supposed systematic oppression or racism, it is merely a single individual or a group of people acting in a racist fashion. It is rarely the system.

without 1) having to justify their experiences to an outsider who can never understand and is not willing to listen and learn and

A physical space for this purpose is not necessary. This is why we have friends or groups of people with like minds. To deny a physical space to a certain group of based on some characteristic does not seem justified for this purpose. This is why clubs or student organizations exist, where people can meet together and discuss their ideas with each other.

With this reasoning, can Young Earth Creationists have safe spaces on campus? There, they wouldn't have to justify their religious experiences to an outsider who can never understand and is not willing to listen and learn. YECs are often ridiculed in modern society for their views, yet a safe space for them is still not necessary.

I assume you would argue that YECs do not need safe spaces because, unlike traditionally marginalized groups, they do not experience systematic discrimination; however, I am not exactly convinced that minorities are systematically discriminated against. This point will have to be resolved first, as I mentioned in the beginning.

2) having to be cognizant of the "white gaze"*

To my understanding, this seems to be a rather trivial matter. It is merely a feeling people have. People feel like they are being "gazed" at in a manner that diminishes them. Such feelings can be associated with anxiety or paranoia, but this is hardly specific to minorities.

For example, I can just as easily claim that white people experience "black gaze." When speaking of matters concerning race, white people feel as though they are being critically analyzed for anything that they may say, and thus feel silenced and oppressed.

As you can see, this is all a matter of how people feel. It is not quantifiable.


2, by virtue of being an oppressed minority we have to have some sense of community or belongingness to each other... I would compare safe spaces to a family dynamic, where you don't air your family grievances out in public because outsiders won't see things the same way you do (and they will often use your infighting against you).

Once again, I must express that I am not convinced minorities are oppressed. I agree, however, that people should have a sense of community or belongingness to each other, but this has already been accomplished in a multitude of fashions where safe spaces are not necessary. For example, there is a Persian/Iranian community within my larger community that I often partake in. We have regular meetings and share religious views. Safe spaces are not required.

I should note that my race, gender, and religion should be irrelevant in this discussion, where we share differing view points; however, you have made it quite clear that you do not enjoy discussing race with people of a certain skin color. This seems to be racist to me, but I assume you believe that minorities cannot be racist. Is this correct?


"White people do not think in terms of we. White people have the privilege to interact with the social and political structures of our society as individuals. You are "you," I am "one of them." Whites are often not directly affected by racial oppression even in their own community, so what does not affect them locally has little chance of affecting them regionally or nationally.

I see a common theme. This, too, is based on the assumption that white people do not/cannot experience racism and that minorities are oppressed in today's society.

Despite this, I must emphasize that the supposed way "white people" think is a good way to think. To judge individuals on the content of their character as opposed to their skin color is truly an intelligent and morally correct decision. Conversely, to generalize, stereotype, or judge based on skin color would be an act of racism. This would not conducive to a healthy society and would not support positive relationships between differing people. You do not seem to be in agreement with me, however.

Or even worse, we're told that we are being racist (Does any intelligent person actually believe a systematically oppressed demographic has the ability to oppress those in power?)

I assume you endorse this form of thinking. I must clear up this matter before a misunderstanding occurs between us.

When I have used the term "racism" in this discussion, I have been using the most commonly applied definition. In short, a form of prejudice based on race. I am sure you know this is a valid definition used in both colloquial and formal settings. The definition you seem to be using is that of a system of categorical privilege, or a system of oppression. Is this correct?

It is important to note that the latter definition is used in a specific academic context (sociology) and should be referred to as "institutionalized racism" outside that context in order to avoid confusion.

Now that I have cleared that up, I would like to state that minorities do have the ability to be racist, even if I used the latter definition (a system of privilege). This is because everyone has power. One sense of power is the physical power we all possess. For example, I have the power to beat someone up. I can thus be racist against Japanese people (as an example) by beating Japanese people up. This results in direct physical harm to them.

It is also very possible for minorities to have systematic power. For example, black people can get into positions of power in jobs or politics. It is thus possible for black people to be racist against other people, as they can possess power. To say they do not possess any power would be incorrect. As an example, Bahar Mustafa claimed that she was a minority who could not be racist; however, she was in a position of power in the university she worked at and was capable of denying white people access to a certain physical space. She thus possessed power and used it to discriminate.
lamerde
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12/23/2015 7:55:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 7:12:43 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:

I appreciate the obvious thoughtfulness you put into your response, but I'm just not interested in arguing about the existence of racism.
Why I ignore YYW:
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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12/23/2015 9:05:21 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 7:55:49 PM, lamerde wrote:
At 12/23/2015 7:12:43 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:

I appreciate the obvious thoughtfulness you put into your response, but I'm just not interested in arguing about the existence of racism.

That's fine.

But I must mention that I did not deny the existence of racism. I know it exists. I believe, if we were to have a discussion on the matter, it would not be a discussion on the existence of racism, but how racism exists in our society. I'd imagine you would argue that systematic oppression and racism takes place, while I would argue that it only takes place on an individual basis by racist individuals (and should be evaluated as such).

I simply say this to make sure you understood what I wrote.