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Brunei Bans Celebration of Christmas

bballcrook21
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12/22/2015 3:43:15 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
The super-rich ruler of Brunei has told residents of his country that if they plan on celebrating Christmas, they could face up to five years in jail.

In fear the the religious holiday will affect the faith of its country, the tiny oil-rich nation"s Sultan, Hassanal Bolkiah, has banned the public celebration of Christmas.

Any Muslims caught celebrating Christmas, and non-Muslims who are discovered organising celebrations, could face the lengthy prison sentence.

While non-Muslims are allowed to celebrate the holiday within their own communities, they must not disclose their plans to the nation"s Muslims " which make up 65 per cent of the 420,000-strong population.

http://www.breitbart.com...

I personally can somewhat understand the reasoning behind this, as Christmas is effectively a religious holiday that has been overturned by American consumerism, but I find it ultimately stupid to ban individuals from a certain holiday or tradition.

What are your thoughts on the matter?
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
mc9
Posts: 1,047
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12/22/2015 3:50:19 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:43:15 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The super-rich ruler of Brunei has told residents of his country that if they plan on celebrating Christmas, they could face up to five years in jail.

In fear the the religious holiday will affect the faith of its country, the tiny oil-rich nation"s Sultan, Hassanal Bolkiah, has banned the public celebration of Christmas.

Any Muslims caught celebrating Christmas, and non-Muslims who are discovered organising celebrations, could face the lengthy prison sentence.

While non-Muslims are allowed to celebrate the holiday within their own communities, they must not disclose their plans to the nation"s Muslims " which make up 65 per cent of the 420,000-strong population.

http://www.breitbart.com...

I personally can somewhat understand the reasoning behind this, as Christmas is effectively a religious holiday that has been overturned by American consumerism, but I find it ultimately stupid to ban individuals from a certain holiday or tradition.

What are your thoughts on the matter?
This is ridiculous.
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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12/22/2015 3:52:45 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
bollocks. His fear is misplaced. People nowadays do it for the holiday festive spirit. Christmas is a big celebration in Australia, and most people are atheists to boot. I really don't think christmas would have any effect on a non christian populace.
Music composition contest: http://www.debate.org...
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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12/22/2015 3:54:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:50:19 AM, mc9 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:43:15 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The super-rich ruler of Brunei has told residents of his country that if they plan on celebrating Christmas, they could face up to five years in jail.

In fear the the religious holiday will affect the faith of its country, the tiny oil-rich nation"s Sultan, Hassanal Bolkiah, has banned the public celebration of Christmas.

Any Muslims caught celebrating Christmas, and non-Muslims who are discovered organising celebrations, could face the lengthy prison sentence.

While non-Muslims are allowed to celebrate the holiday within their own communities, they must not disclose their plans to the nation"s Muslims " which make up 65 per cent of the 420,000-strong population.

http://www.breitbart.com...

I personally can somewhat understand the reasoning behind this, as Christmas is effectively a religious holiday that has been overturned by American consumerism, but I find it ultimately stupid to ban individuals from a certain holiday or tradition.

What are your thoughts on the matter?
This is ridiculous.

Couldn't agree more.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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12/22/2015 3:56:11 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:52:45 AM, Smithereens wrote:
bollocks. His fear is misplaced. People nowadays do it for the holiday festive spirit. Christmas is a big celebration in Australia, and most people are atheists to boot. I really don't think christmas would have any effect on a non christian populace.

That's understandable, and completely correct. There shouldn't even be a fear in the first place. People have the right to religion and the right to any holiday they would like. Funny how Brunei has quite a high GDP per capita, as well as HDI, but still is lead by a backwards administration.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/22/2015 4:00:03 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:43:15 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The super-rich ruler of Brunei has told residents of his country that if they plan on celebrating Christmas, they could face up to five years in jail.

In fear the the religious holiday will affect the faith of its country, the tiny oil-rich nation"s Sultan, Hassanal Bolkiah, has banned the public celebration of Christmas.

Any Muslims caught celebrating Christmas, and non-Muslims who are discovered organising celebrations, could face the lengthy prison sentence.

While non-Muslims are allowed to celebrate the holiday within their own communities, they must not disclose their plans to the nation"s Muslims " which make up 65 per cent of the 420,000-strong population.

http://www.breitbart.com...

I personally can somewhat understand the reasoning behind this, as Christmas is effectively a religious holiday that has been overturned by American consumerism, but I find it ultimately stupid to ban individuals from a certain holiday or tradition.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

If Trump came out and said he would "think about banning Ramadan" would you applaud?
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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12/22/2015 4:01:57 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 4:00:03 AM, TBR wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:43:15 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The super-rich ruler of Brunei has told residents of his country that if they plan on celebrating Christmas, they could face up to five years in jail.

In fear the the religious holiday will affect the faith of its country, the tiny oil-rich nation"s Sultan, Hassanal Bolkiah, has banned the public celebration of Christmas.

Any Muslims caught celebrating Christmas, and non-Muslims who are discovered organising celebrations, could face the lengthy prison sentence.

While non-Muslims are allowed to celebrate the holiday within their own communities, they must not disclose their plans to the nation"s Muslims " which make up 65 per cent of the 420,000-strong population.

http://www.breitbart.com...

I personally can somewhat understand the reasoning behind this, as Christmas is effectively a religious holiday that has been overturned by American consumerism, but I find it ultimately stupid to ban individuals from a certain holiday or tradition.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

If Trump came out and said he would "think about banning Ramadan" would you applaud?

What kind of question is that? I can't say that I ravel in love for Islamic faith and principles, but the basic foundation of freedom of religion is an important one. If here were to ban Ramadan, I wouldn't support it.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/22/2015 4:04:41 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 4:01:57 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:00:03 AM, TBR wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:43:15 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The super-rich ruler of Brunei has told residents of his country that if they plan on celebrating Christmas, they could face up to five years in jail.

In fear the the religious holiday will affect the faith of its country, the tiny oil-rich nation"s Sultan, Hassanal Bolkiah, has banned the public celebration of Christmas.

Any Muslims caught celebrating Christmas, and non-Muslims who are discovered organising celebrations, could face the lengthy prison sentence.

While non-Muslims are allowed to celebrate the holiday within their own communities, they must not disclose their plans to the nation"s Muslims " which make up 65 per cent of the 420,000-strong population.

http://www.breitbart.com...

I personally can somewhat understand the reasoning behind this, as Christmas is effectively a religious holiday that has been overturned by American consumerism, but I find it ultimately stupid to ban individuals from a certain holiday or tradition.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

If Trump came out and said he would "think about banning Ramadan" would you applaud?

What kind of question is that? I can't say that I ravel in love for Islamic faith and principles, but the basic foundation of freedom of religion is an important one. If here were to ban Ramadan, I wouldn't support it.

Just a question, not some accusation.

Now, if he did, I bet he would have plenty of supporters cheering.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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12/22/2015 4:07:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 4:04:41 AM, TBR wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:01:57 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:00:03 AM, TBR wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:43:15 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The super-rich ruler of Brunei has told residents of his country that if they plan on celebrating Christmas, they could face up to five years in jail.

In fear the the religious holiday will affect the faith of its country, the tiny oil-rich nation"s Sultan, Hassanal Bolkiah, has banned the public celebration of Christmas.

Any Muslims caught celebrating Christmas, and non-Muslims who are discovered organising celebrations, could face the lengthy prison sentence.

While non-Muslims are allowed to celebrate the holiday within their own communities, they must not disclose their plans to the nation"s Muslims " which make up 65 per cent of the 420,000-strong population.

http://www.breitbart.com...

I personally can somewhat understand the reasoning behind this, as Christmas is effectively a religious holiday that has been overturned by American consumerism, but I find it ultimately stupid to ban individuals from a certain holiday or tradition.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

If Trump came out and said he would "think about banning Ramadan" would you applaud?

What kind of question is that? I can't say that I ravel in love for Islamic faith and principles, but the basic foundation of freedom of religion is an important one. If here were to ban Ramadan, I wouldn't support it.

Just a question, not some accusation.

Now, if he did, I bet he would have plenty of supporters cheering.

I bet they would, as there is a stigma (although much deserved and somewhat rational) around Islam. It would be a direct violation of the Constitution, and regardless of how much I hate Islam, I would not be able to allow it.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/22/2015 4:14:27 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I bet they would, as there is a stigma (although much deserved and somewhat rational) around Islam. It would be a direct violation of the Constitution, and regardless of how much I hate Islam, I would not be able to allow it.

I agree, they would cheer. Now, our country is much more liberal, and has protections in our constitution. Its good to be an American, right?

The only point I am making is.., We are not always welcoming to other religious celebrations. Christians have been twisting themselves in knots over the "war on Christmas" for years now. The Sultan is not the only one that can be ridiculous about religious holidays. Its a good thing that we keep to our idea of religious freedoms, and eschew the bigots.
bballcrook21
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12/22/2015 4:20:04 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 4:14:27 AM, TBR wrote:
I bet they would, as there is a stigma (although much deserved and somewhat rational) around Islam. It would be a direct violation of the Constitution, and regardless of how much I hate Islam, I would not be able to allow it.

I agree, they would cheer. Now, our country is much more liberal, and has protections in our constitution. Its good to be an American, right?

The only point I am making is.., We are not always welcoming to other religious celebrations. Christians have been twisting themselves in knots over the "war on Christmas" for years now. The Sultan is not the only one that can be ridiculous about religious holidays. Its a good thing that we keep to our idea of religious freedoms, and eschew the bigots.

I somewhat agree with what the Christians say about Christmas though. It was originally a religious holiday, and now Atheists have cherry picked just one part of the holiday - gift giving. I totally understand why they would be angry. Although I don't care, nor do I completely agree, I can understand and share some sympathy with them.

Saying "we are more liberal" doesn't equate to Constitutional protections. There are more people on the right side of the spectrum that favor the Constitution then there are left wingers. It's good to be somewhat socially liberal, but I find liberalism in almost all other sectors to be completely mental.

There is no Constitutional way to ban a religion, unless you redefine it. If you were to refer to Islam as the murderous death cult that it truly is, then you could ban it, since it isn't a religion.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/22/2015 4:27:12 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 4:20:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:14:27 AM, TBR wrote:
I bet they would, as there is a stigma (although much deserved and somewhat rational) around Islam. It would be a direct violation of the Constitution, and regardless of how much I hate Islam, I would not be able to allow it.

I agree, they would cheer. Now, our country is much more liberal, and has protections in our constitution. Its good to be an American, right?

The only point I am making is.., We are not always welcoming to other religious celebrations. Christians have been twisting themselves in knots over the "war on Christmas" for years now. The Sultan is not the only one that can be ridiculous about religious holidays. Its a good thing that we keep to our idea of religious freedoms, and eschew the bigots.

I somewhat agree with what the Christians say about Christmas though. It was originally a religious holiday, and now Atheists have cherry picked just one part of the holiday - gift giving. I totally understand why they would be angry. Although I don't care, nor do I completely agree, I can understand and share some sympathy with them.

Saying "we are more liberal" doesn't equate to Constitutional protections. There are more people on the right side of the spectrum that favor the Constitution then there are left wingers. It's good to be somewhat socially liberal, but I find liberalism in almost all other sectors to be completely mental.

There is no Constitutional way to ban a religion, unless you redefine it. If you were to refer to Islam as the murderous death cult that it truly is, then you could ban it, since it isn't a religion.

Well... Lets see. You do realize that American is rightly described as "liberal" vs many other nations, right? As to the baseless "conservatives favor the constitution"... Well, that is garbage. Just declaring you are does not make it so.

To the last point. I dislike Islam very much. I dislike Christianity, but generally speaking it is less of a nuisance for more Americans. Me personally, Christians have caused me more trouble than Islam by a long shot.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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12/22/2015 4:36:22 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 4:27:12 AM, TBR wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:20:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:14:27 AM, TBR wrote:
I bet they would, as there is a stigma (although much deserved and somewhat rational) around Islam. It would be a direct violation of the Constitution, and regardless of how much I hate Islam, I would not be able to allow it.

I agree, they would cheer. Now, our country is much more liberal, and has protections in our constitution. Its good to be an American, right?

The only point I am making is.., We are not always welcoming to other religious celebrations. Christians have been twisting themselves in knots over the "war on Christmas" for years now. The Sultan is not the only one that can be ridiculous about religious holidays. Its a good thing that we keep to our idea of religious freedoms, and eschew the bigots.

I somewhat agree with what the Christians say about Christmas though. It was originally a religious holiday, and now Atheists have cherry picked just one part of the holiday - gift giving. I totally understand why they would be angry. Although I don't care, nor do I completely agree, I can understand and share some sympathy with them.

Saying "we are more liberal" doesn't equate to Constitutional protections. There are more people on the right side of the spectrum that favor the Constitution then there are left wingers. It's good to be somewhat socially liberal, but I find liberalism in almost all other sectors to be completely mental.

There is no Constitutional way to ban a religion, unless you redefine it. If you were to refer to Islam as the murderous death cult that it truly is, then you could ban it, since it isn't a religion.

Well... Lets see. You do realize that American is rightly described as "liberal" vs many other nations, right? As to the baseless "conservatives favor the constitution"... Well, that is garbage. Just declaring you are does not make it so.

To the last point. I dislike Islam very much. I dislike Christianity, but generally speaking it is less of a nuisance for more Americans. Me personally, Christians have caused me more trouble than Islam by a long shot.

Saying that a 1st world nation is less oppressive than many 2nd and 3rd world nations isn't much of a comparison, considering it's pretty much implied.

You are using the general definitions, not definitions espoused from American politics.

Classical Liberalism, I will admit, is what I would have followed had I lived in that time. Modern day liberalism, however, is filled with entitled moronic millenials and older individuals who cannot fathom what an economy is and how it runs. Mainstream liberals, at least.

Not to say that I like the conservatives that much, although I like them about 10000x times more than liberals. I am Libertarian myself, so I agree more with conservatives, especially on social issues. There's a fine distinction between saying "Islam or Ramadan is worthy of being banned, vs saying that it SHOULD be banned by some leader". Let's face it though, quite a lot of liberals have distaste just on Christianity itself, and they find that it's justifiable to ban it or silence it just because it is "irrational".
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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12/22/2015 4:20:12 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 3:43:15 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The super-rich ruler of Brunei has told residents of his country that if they plan on celebrating Christmas, they could face up to five years in jail.

In fear the the religious holiday will affect the faith of its country, the tiny oil-rich nation"s Sultan, Hassanal Bolkiah, has banned the public celebration of Christmas.

Any Muslims caught celebrating Christmas, and non-Muslims who are discovered organising celebrations, could face the lengthy prison sentence.

While non-Muslims are allowed to celebrate the holiday within their own communities, they must not disclose their plans to the nation"s Muslims " which make up 65 per cent of the 420,000-strong population.

http://www.breitbart.com...

I personally can somewhat understand the reasoning behind this, as Christmas is effectively a religious holiday that has been overturned by American consumerism, but I find it ultimately stupid to ban individuals from a certain holiday or tradition.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

Completely stupid, and it just makes you more grateful for things like the 1st amendment. Then again, I'm not surprised that a Islamic country is persecuting Christians.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
tajshar2k
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12/22/2015 4:22:28 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 4:20:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:14:27 AM, TBR wrote:
I bet they would, as there is a stigma (although much deserved and somewhat rational) around Islam. It would be a direct violation of the Constitution, and regardless of how much I hate Islam, I would not be able to allow it.

I agree, they would cheer. Now, our country is much more liberal, and has protections in our constitution. Its good to be an American, right?

The only point I am making is.., We are not always welcoming to other religious celebrations. Christians have been twisting themselves in knots over the "war on Christmas" for years now. The Sultan is not the only one that can be ridiculous about religious holidays. Its a good thing that we keep to our idea of religious freedoms, and eschew the bigots.

I and now Atheists have cherry picked just one part of the holiday

I'll admit, I'm guilty of that, but I see Christmas time to get together with family and be happy. It's more to do with family values I suppose in my opinion. Presents are like my 2nd priority, getting together and enjoying our time is #1.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
TBR
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12/22/2015 4:43:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 4:22:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:20:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:14:27 AM, TBR wrote:
I bet they would, as there is a stigma (although much deserved and somewhat rational) around Islam. It would be a direct violation of the Constitution, and regardless of how much I hate Islam, I would not be able to allow it.

I agree, they would cheer. Now, our country is much more liberal, and has protections in our constitution. Its good to be an American, right?

The only point I am making is.., We are not always welcoming to other religious celebrations. Christians have been twisting themselves in knots over the "war on Christmas" for years now. The Sultan is not the only one that can be ridiculous about religious holidays. Its a good thing that we keep to our idea of religious freedoms, and eschew the bigots.

I and now Atheists have cherry picked just one part of the holiday

I'll admit, I'm guilty of that, but I see Christmas time to get together with family and be happy. It's more to do with family values I suppose in my opinion. Presents are like my 2nd priority, getting together and enjoying our time is #1.

As a kid, Christmas was the time of the year when my very far flung family reassembled. Brothers and sisters were at boarding schools, and colleges etc. That was definitively what made it nice for me. When I got married, my wife was very anti-Christmas. It had plenty of bad memories attached, so we just sat it out for years. No, my son has come along. First year or two we struggled with how to balance it. He is five now, and really likes it. He is having tons of fun with it. I see no reason to deny him that fun, so I go along without issue.
The_American_Conservative
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12/22/2015 4:49:39 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 4:43:33 PM, TBR wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:22:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:20:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:14:27 AM, TBR wrote:
I bet they would, as there is a stigma (although much deserved and somewhat rational) around Islam. It would be a direct violation of the Constitution, and regardless of how much I hate Islam, I would not be able to allow it.

I agree, they would cheer. Now, our country is much more liberal, and has protections in our constitution. Its good to be an American, right?

The only point I am making is.., We are not always welcoming to other religious celebrations. Christians have been twisting themselves in knots over the "war on Christmas" for years now. The Sultan is not the only one that can be ridiculous about religious holidays. Its a good thing that we keep to our idea of religious freedoms, and eschew the bigots.

I and now Atheists have cherry picked just one part of the holiday

I'll admit, I'm guilty of that, but I see Christmas time to get together with family and be happy. It's more to do with family values I suppose in my opinion. Presents are like my 2nd priority, getting together and enjoying our time is #1.

As a kid, Christmas was the time of the year when my very far flung family reassembled. Brothers and sisters were at boarding schools, and colleges etc. That was definitively what made it nice for me. When I got married, my wife was very anti-Christmas. It had plenty of bad memories attached, so we just sat it out for years. No, my son has come along. First year or two we struggled with how to balance it. He is five now, and really likes it. He is having tons of fun with it. I see no reason to deny him that fun, so I go along without issue.

Basically how I feel about it.
bballcrook21
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12/22/2015 5:16:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 4:43:33 PM, TBR wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:22:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:20:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:14:27 AM, TBR wrote:
I bet they would, as there is a stigma (although much deserved and somewhat rational) around Islam. It would be a direct violation of the Constitution, and regardless of how much I hate Islam, I would not be able to allow it.

I agree, they would cheer. Now, our country is much more liberal, and has protections in our constitution. Its good to be an American, right?

The only point I am making is.., We are not always welcoming to other religious celebrations. Christians have been twisting themselves in knots over the "war on Christmas" for years now. The Sultan is not the only one that can be ridiculous about religious holidays. Its a good thing that we keep to our idea of religious freedoms, and eschew the bigots.

I and now Atheists have cherry picked just one part of the holiday

I'll admit, I'm guilty of that, but I see Christmas time to get together with family and be happy. It's more to do with family values I suppose in my opinion. Presents are like my 2nd priority, getting together and enjoying our time is #1.

As a kid, Christmas was the time of the year when my very far flung family reassembled. Brothers and sisters were at boarding schools, and colleges etc. That was definitively what made it nice for me. When I got married, my wife was very anti-Christmas. It had plenty of bad memories attached, so we just sat it out for years. No, my son has come along. First year or two we struggled with how to balance it. He is five now, and really likes it. He is having tons of fun with it. I see no reason to deny him that fun, so I go along without issue.

I've never in my life had a traditional Christmas. We've never even had presents under the tree. We kind of just put up a mucky tree that's half assembled and then call it a day. I don't really like family holidays too much though.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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12/22/2015 5:25:30 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 5:16:44 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:43:33 PM, TBR wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:22:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:20:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:14:27 AM, TBR wrote:
I bet they would, as there is a stigma (although much deserved and somewhat rational) around Islam. It would be a direct violation of the Constitution, and regardless of how much I hate Islam, I would not be able to allow it.

I agree, they would cheer. Now, our country is much more liberal, and has protections in our constitution. Its good to be an American, right?

The only point I am making is.., We are not always welcoming to other religious celebrations. Christians have been twisting themselves in knots over the "war on Christmas" for years now. The Sultan is not the only one that can be ridiculous about religious holidays. Its a good thing that we keep to our idea of religious freedoms, and eschew the bigots.

I and now Atheists have cherry picked just one part of the holiday

I'll admit, I'm guilty of that, but I see Christmas time to get together with family and be happy. It's more to do with family values I suppose in my opinion. Presents are like my 2nd priority, getting together and enjoying our time is #1.

As a kid, Christmas was the time of the year when my very far flung family reassembled. Brothers and sisters were at boarding schools, and colleges etc. That was definitively what made it nice for me. When I got married, my wife was very anti-Christmas. It had plenty of bad memories attached, so we just sat it out for years. No, my son has come along. First year or two we struggled with how to balance it. He is five now, and really likes it. He is having tons of fun with it. I see no reason to deny him that fun, so I go along without issue.

I've never in my life had a traditional Christmas. We've never even had presents under the tree. We kind of just put up a mucky tree that's half assembled and then call it a day. I don't really like family holidays too much though.

A guy I work with told me his "tradition" with his kids. It started with some gnome they put out ahead of Christmas, apparently telling the children this was some sort of "spy" for Santa. The Santa spy to be referenced when they are "misbehaving". He was giving me this as a sane alternative to a Christian Christmas (he is Christian). As the story (scheme) came out, my jaw hitting the ground, he told me how fun it was.

Yea, my son has a present from Santa, but I have not once told him there is a Santa, or given him any indication that he is real. He asked in passing the other day, and I said no. He did not push the subject. I can't sell my child this fantasy, but I don't mind it being fun regardless.

As a side note. My son's name is Deygan. It is from Zoroastrianism "Deygan Festival" - "coming of the light" = solstices.
bballcrook21
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12/22/2015 6:08:13 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 5:25:30 PM, TBR wrote:
At 12/22/2015 5:16:44 PM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:43:33 PM, TBR wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:22:28 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:20:04 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
At 12/22/2015 4:14:27 AM, TBR wrote:
I bet they would, as there is a stigma (although much deserved and somewhat rational) around Islam. It would be a direct violation of the Constitution, and regardless of how much I hate Islam, I would not be able to allow it.

I agree, they would cheer. Now, our country is much more liberal, and has protections in our constitution. Its good to be an American, right?

The only point I am making is.., We are not always welcoming to other religious celebrations. Christians have been twisting themselves in knots over the "war on Christmas" for years now. The Sultan is not the only one that can be ridiculous about religious holidays. Its a good thing that we keep to our idea of religious freedoms, and eschew the bigots.

I and now Atheists have cherry picked just one part of the holiday

I'll admit, I'm guilty of that, but I see Christmas time to get together with family and be happy. It's more to do with family values I suppose in my opinion. Presents are like my 2nd priority, getting together and enjoying our time is #1.

As a kid, Christmas was the time of the year when my very far flung family reassembled. Brothers and sisters were at boarding schools, and colleges etc. That was definitively what made it nice for me. When I got married, my wife was very anti-Christmas. It had plenty of bad memories attached, so we just sat it out for years. No, my son has come along. First year or two we struggled with how to balance it. He is five now, and really likes it. He is having tons of fun with it. I see no reason to deny him that fun, so I go along without issue.

I've never in my life had a traditional Christmas. We've never even had presents under the tree. We kind of just put up a mucky tree that's half assembled and then call it a day. I don't really like family holidays too much though.

A guy I work with told me his "tradition" with his kids. It started with some gnome they put out ahead of Christmas, apparently telling the children this was some sort of "spy" for Santa. The Santa spy to be referenced when they are "misbehaving". He was giving me this as a sane alternative to a Christian Christmas (he is Christian). As the story (scheme) came out, my jaw hitting the ground, he told me how fun it was.

Yea, my son has a present from Santa, but I have not once told him there is a Santa, or given him any indication that he is real. He asked in passing the other day, and I said no. He did not push the subject. I can't sell my child this fantasy, but I don't mind it being fun regardless.

As a side note. My son's name is Deygan. It is from Zoroastrianism "Deygan Festival" - "coming of the light" = solstices.

This year for Christmas I am buying a bunch of Games of Thrones merchandise, just from the Targaryens. I am getting a Targaryen jacket, scarf, pillow, cup, and water bottle.
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Skepsikyma
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12/22/2015 9:12:24 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/22/2015 4:20:12 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 12/22/2015 3:43:15 AM, bballcrook21 wrote:
The super-rich ruler of Brunei has told residents of his country that if they plan on celebrating Christmas, they could face up to five years in jail.

In fear the the religious holiday will affect the faith of its country, the tiny oil-rich nation"s Sultan, Hassanal Bolkiah, has banned the public celebration of Christmas.

Any Muslims caught celebrating Christmas, and non-Muslims who are discovered organising celebrations, could face the lengthy prison sentence.

While non-Muslims are allowed to celebrate the holiday within their own communities, they must not disclose their plans to the nation"s Muslims " which make up 65 per cent of the 420,000-strong population.

http://www.breitbart.com...

I personally can somewhat understand the reasoning behind this, as Christmas is effectively a religious holiday that has been overturned by American consumerism, but I find it ultimately stupid to ban individuals from a certain holiday or tradition.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

Completely stupid, and it just makes you more grateful for things like the 1st amendment. Then again, I'm not surprised that a Islamic country is persecuting Christians.

Read the article: non-Muslims are permitted to celebrate the holiday within their own community. He's only banning Muslims from celebrating it, and Christians from inviting Muslims to celebrate it.
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