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Gay couples and adoption

annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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10/16/2010 10:17:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 10:09:38 AM, Caramel wrote:
Should they be able?

Yes.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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10/16/2010 10:29:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Gays should only be allowed to adopt third world children to force opponents of gay child adoption to say "its better to die than to be raised gay"
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/16/2010 10:42:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 10:09:38 AM, Caramel wrote:
Should they be able?

They're already ABLE, just not allowed. They should be.

To cut to the chase: Numerous studies show that kids with gay parents are better adjusted and no worse off than kids with straight parents. In fact they consistently rank higher in areas like self-esteem and such. Plus, as Sieben alluded to, plenty of kids need good homes and good parents, and one's sexuality has no bearing on their ability to be a good parent.
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I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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10/16/2010 10:52:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 10:42:34 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:09:38 AM, Caramel wrote:
Should they be able?

They're already ABLE, just not allowed. They should be.

To cut to the chase: Numerous studies show that kids with gay parents are better adjusted and no worse off than kids with straight parents. In fact they consistently rank higher in areas like self-esteem and such. Plus, as Sieben alluded to, plenty of kids need good homes and good parents, and one's sexuality has no bearing on their ability to be a good parent.

The only drawback of homosexual parents is exposure to homophobia, as confirmed by said studies, however that does not warrant a ban on gay adoption.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Caramel
Posts: 855
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10/16/2010 10:53:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
In the neighborhood I grew up in, I would say you would be better off dead. The torment a child (particularly a boy with two male parents) would endure would be ridiculous. I can't speak for everywhere though... Does anyone live in a spot where perhaps a child of gay parents wouldn't have such a hard time?
no comment
Caramel
Posts: 855
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10/16/2010 10:58:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I respect what you guys are saying and I am definitely not predisposed to telling gays what they can and cannot do as I am highly socially liberal; the argument that homophobia should be used as a factor in deciding what gays can or cannot do is repugnant to me (because it is circular).

But the fact remains that children are going to go through hellish torment from other homophobic people. Not all of them, not everywhere, but I know what it is like to be picked on at school and it can be downright suicidal.
no comment
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/16/2010 10:58:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 10:52:32 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:42:34 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:09:38 AM, Caramel wrote:
Should they be able?

They're already ABLE, just not allowed. They should be.

To cut to the chase: Numerous studies show that kids with gay parents are better adjusted and no worse off than kids with straight parents. In fact they consistently rank higher in areas like self-esteem and such. Plus, as Sieben alluded to, plenty of kids need good homes and good parents, and one's sexuality has no bearing on their ability to be a good parent.

The only drawback of homosexual parents is exposure to homophobia, as confirmed by said studies, however that does not warrant a ban on gay adoption.

And that's no small thing, and should be part of the evaluation when considering appropriate parental candidates. Can these people deal well with the potential problems that they are to encounter. Most gay people, when they get to this point where they are considering adoption have probably learned how to deal with this stuff, and would hopefully pass it on to their child in a loving nurturing environment. - My greatest regret in life is not having a child.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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10/16/2010 10:59:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 10:53:24 AM, Caramel wrote:
In the neighborhood I grew up in, I would say you would be better off dead. The torment a child (particularly a boy with two male parents) would endure would be ridiculous. I can't speak for everywhere though... Does anyone live in a spot where perhaps a child of gay parents wouldn't have such a hard time?

Seattle, all the way. My best friend was raised by a homosexual couple and whenever she told people she had two dads, they'd reply, "That's so cool!" She's faced some homophobia for sure, but that was usually in Eastern Washington. Seattle is so liberal and open to gay couples, it's awesome. :D
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/16/2010 11:00:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 10:53:24 AM, Caramel wrote:
In the neighborhood I grew up in, I would say you would be better off dead. The torment a child (particularly a boy with two male parents) would endure would be ridiculous. I can't speak for everywhere though... Does anyone live in a spot where perhaps a child of gay parents wouldn't have such a hard time?

Not where i live. Our state in general is pretty cool with this stuff. Move.
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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10/16/2010 11:01:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 10:09:38 AM, Caramel wrote:
Should they be able?

Of course. Being Gay just means that their sexuality is different from the norm. In fact, credible scientific researchers have a consensus about the positive parenting ability of LGBT couples. To the extent the data is available, it shows that the vast majority of the Children of the Gay couples turn out to be heterosexual.

For further information, (link). This is a official document submitted to the calirfornia supreme court that directly tries to address the relation between childcare and sexual orientation. (basically it is just a huge report on Gay marriage, but this issue is addressed on pg 25-26)
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov...

Also, http://www.cpa.ca...(1).pdf

Basically, the abilities of gay and lesbian persons as parents and the positive outcomes for their children are not areas where credible scientific researchers disagree. Statements by the leading associations of experts in this area reflect professional consensus that children raised by lesbian or gay parents do not differ in any important respects from those raised by heterosexual parents. No credible empirical research suggests otherwise.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/16/2010 11:01:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have previously held some reticence against gay couples adopting... what this was based on I can no longer really remember.

As a random thought, you (society) would not ordinarily allow two close heterosexual male friends (who state that they will live together for the rest of their lives) to adopt a girl. But if the two men were a same sex couple, bisexual, who simply self-identified as homosexual (as is their right). See what I am saying?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Caramel
Posts: 855
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10/16/2010 11:02:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 10:42:34 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:09:38 AM, Caramel wrote:
Should they be able?

They're already ABLE, just not allowed. They should be.

To cut to the chase: Numerous studies show that kids with gay parents are better adjusted and no worse off than kids with straight parents. In fact they consistently rank higher in areas like self-esteem and such. Plus, as Sieben alluded to, plenty of kids need good homes and good parents, and one's sexuality has no bearing on their ability to be a good parent.

None of those studies came out of Johnston, Rhode Island - I can assure you. I think it would be nice for gays to have children out of principle, as they would certainly do a good job family-wise but I just can't justify the torment a kid could go through because of it... I'll have to take a look at the research out there.
no comment
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/16/2010 11:03:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:01:30 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I have previously held some reticence against gay couples adopting... what this was based on I can no longer really remember.

As a random thought, you (society) would not ordinarily allow two close heterosexual male friends (who state that they will live together for the rest of their lives) to adopt a girl. But if the two men were a same sex couple, bisexual, who simply self-identified as homosexual (as is their right). See what I am saying?

No please go on...
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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10/16/2010 11:08:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 10:52:32 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:42:34 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:09:38 AM, Caramel wrote:
Should they be able?

They're already ABLE, just not allowed. They should be.

To cut to the chase: Numerous studies show that kids with gay parents are better adjusted and no worse off than kids with straight parents. In fact they consistently rank higher in areas like self-esteem and such. Plus, as Sieben alluded to, plenty of kids need good homes and good parents, and one's sexuality has no bearing on their ability to be a good parent.

The only drawback of homosexual parents is exposure to homophobia, as confirmed by said studies, however that does not warrant a ban on gay adoption.

The only drawback of black parents is exposure to racism, as confirmed by said studies, however that does not warrant a ban on blacks adopting.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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10/16/2010 11:09:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 10:53:24 AM, Caramel wrote:
In the neighborhood I grew up in, I would say you would be better off dead. The torment a child (particularly a boy with two male parents) would endure would be ridiculous. I can't speak for everywhere though... Does anyone live in a spot where perhaps a child of gay parents wouldn't have such a hard time?

Gay parents probably wouldn't live in your neighborhood in the first place.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Caramel
Posts: 855
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10/16/2010 11:10:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Does anyone live in a spot where perhaps a child of gay parents wouldn't have such a hard time?

Not where i live. Our state in general is pretty cool with this stuff. Move.

Already moved, for those basic reasons. It saddens me to hear that your biggest regret is not having children...
no comment
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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10/16/2010 11:10:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:08:13 AM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:52:32 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:42:34 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:09:38 AM, Caramel wrote:
Should they be able?

They're already ABLE, just not allowed. They should be.

To cut to the chase: Numerous studies show that kids with gay parents are better adjusted and no worse off than kids with straight parents. In fact they consistently rank higher in areas like self-esteem and such. Plus, as Sieben alluded to, plenty of kids need good homes and good parents, and one's sexuality has no bearing on their ability to be a good parent.

The only drawback of homosexual parents is exposure to homophobia, as confirmed by said studies, however that does not warrant a ban on gay adoption.

The only drawback of black parents is exposure to racism, as confirmed by said studies, however that does not warrant a ban on blacks adopting.

How does this analogy make sense?
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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10/16/2010 11:10:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:01:10 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:09:38 AM, Caramel wrote:
Should they be able?

Of course. Being Gay just means that their sexuality is different from the norm. In fact, credible scientific researchers have a consensus about the positive parenting ability of LGBT couples. To the extent the data is available, it shows that the vast majority of the Children of the Gay couples turn out to be heterosexual.

Well, I would think so, right, as heterosexual parents don't always raise heterosexual children :p
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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10/16/2010 11:13:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:10:16 AM, TulleKrazy wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:08:13 AM, Vi_Veri wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:52:32 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:42:34 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:09:38 AM, Caramel wrote:
Should they be able?

They're already ABLE, just not allowed. They should be.

To cut to the chase: Numerous studies show that kids with gay parents are better adjusted and no worse off than kids with straight parents. In fact they consistently rank higher in areas like self-esteem and such. Plus, as Sieben alluded to, plenty of kids need good homes and good parents, and one's sexuality has no bearing on their ability to be a good parent.

The only drawback of homosexual parents is exposure to homophobia, as confirmed by said studies, however that does not warrant a ban on gay adoption.

The only drawback of black parents is exposure to racism, as confirmed by said studies, however that does not warrant a ban on blacks adopting.

How does this analogy make sense?

How does it not? If a white kid who grew up in my WASP neighborhood was adopted by black parents, they would hear a lot of sh1t from people. Hell, the only black kid in my school was tortured daily by the ignorant kids at school.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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10/16/2010 11:14:14 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:02:31 AM, Caramel wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:42:34 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 10/16/2010 10:09:38 AM, Caramel wrote:
Should they be able?

They're already ABLE, just not allowed. They should be.

To cut to the chase: Numerous studies show that kids with gay parents are better adjusted and no worse off than kids with straight parents. In fact they consistently rank higher in areas like self-esteem and such. Plus, as Sieben alluded to, plenty of kids need good homes and good parents, and one's sexuality has no bearing on their ability to be a good parent.

None of those studies came out of Johnston, Rhode Island - I can assure you. I think it would be nice for gays to have children out of principle, as they would certainly do a good job family-wise but I just can't justify the torment a kid could go through because of it... I'll have to take a look at the research out there.

All the gay parents would have to do is move to a gay friendly town to raise their children. Probably not a small town in Alabama.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/16/2010 11:14:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:03:23 AM, innomen wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:01:30 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I have previously held some reticence against gay couples adopting... what this was based on I can no longer really remember.

As a random thought, you (society) would not ordinarily allow two close heterosexual male friends (who state that they will live together for the rest of their lives) to adopt a girl. But if the two men were a same sex couple, bisexual, who simply self-identified as homosexual (as is their right). See what I am saying?

No please go on...

Frank and Bob are two heterosexual male bachelors, they have lived together for many years, have a joint mortage, joint bank account, and have decided that they will always live together.

Adam and Stave are two bisexual males, they have lived together for many years, have a joint mortage, joint bank account, and have decided that they will always live together.

Lets say both relationships seem as stable, they all seem like good people, they all earn the same amount (which is plenty to raise a child with).

Both couples seek to adopt. Specifically a girl. Are their situations equal, if not why not?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/16/2010 11:18:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:10:03 AM, Caramel wrote:
Does anyone live in a spot where perhaps a child of gay parents wouldn't have such a hard time?

Not where i live. Our state in general is pretty cool with this stuff. Move.

Already moved, for those basic reasons. It saddens me to hear that your biggest regret is not having children...

I am far from alone in this. It worsens as you get older too.
gerrandesquire
Posts: 1,258
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10/16/2010 11:19:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:14:15 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:03:23 AM, innomen wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:01:30 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I have previously held some reticence against gay couples adopting... what this was based on I can no longer really remember.

As a random thought, you (society) would not ordinarily allow two close heterosexual male friends (who state that they will live together for the rest of their lives) to adopt a girl. But if the two men were a same sex couple, bisexual, who simply self-identified as homosexual (as is their right). See what I am saying?

No please go on...

Frank and Bob are two heterosexual male bachelors, they have lived together for many years, have a joint mortage, joint bank account, and have decided that they will always live together.

But why will they live together? There is always a chance that they will find a 'girl of their dreams' and marry. Then there will be a legal battle for the custody of the girl child. There is no stability in this situation, because owing to their nature, they will be forever propelled to seek a member of opposite sex.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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10/16/2010 11:22:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:19:24 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:14:15 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:03:23 AM, innomen wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:01:30 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I have previously held some reticence against gay couples adopting... what this was based on I can no longer really remember.

As a random thought, you (society) would not ordinarily allow two close heterosexual male friends (who state that they will live together for the rest of their lives) to adopt a girl. But if the two men were a same sex couple, bisexual, who simply self-identified as homosexual (as is their right). See what I am saying?

No please go on...

Frank and Bob are two heterosexual male bachelors, they have lived together for many years, have a joint mortage, joint bank account, and have decided that they will always live together.


But why will they live together? There is always a chance that they will find a 'girl of their dreams' and marry. Then there will be a legal battle for the custody of the girl child. There is no stability in this situation, because owing to their nature, they will be forever propelled to seek a member of opposite sex.


Seems to be almost a double standard then, the bisexual males might very well find someone else and the same thing may very well occur. Both couples have shown equal commitment to each other.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Vi_Veri
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10/16/2010 11:24:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I think the two straight males should be able to adopt a child if they can show they will give her a stable living environment.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/16/2010 11:24:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yes, I'd say CN's couple examples are equal insofar as one's sexuality and sexual relationship has no bearing on their ability to be a good parent. However even if the "State" for whatever reason said that they felt a "romantic couple" was a requirement for adoption, gay couples fit that criteria. The gender thing isn't an issue. Exposure to healthy role models of both genders are important. Growing up I had many friends who saw their dad's for a few hours a week. Meanwhile my gf's best friends are all males, so our kids would probably have more male positive role models than some kids with straight parents.

But anyway yeah I don't see why two straight people couldn't adopt a child together if they were both good parents (responsible, loving, etc.). The TV show had Will & Grace pondering whether or not to raise a baby together and Will's gay so they'd just be BFFs. The point is that families come in all shapes, sizes and varieties whether you like it or not. The family and parents play a special and important role though, and innumerable studies show that gay parents are just as apt at being parents as straight people. Those against gay adoption have never been able to cite any reasonable evidence aside from their own bias or religious sentiments considering the hard evidence is in our favor.
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innomen
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10/16/2010 11:24:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:14:15 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:03:23 AM, innomen wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:01:30 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I have previously held some reticence against gay couples adopting... what this was based on I can no longer really remember.

As a random thought, you (society) would not ordinarily allow two close heterosexual male friends (who state that they will live together for the rest of their lives) to adopt a girl. But if the two men were a same sex couple, bisexual, who simply self-identified as homosexual (as is their right). See what I am saying?

No please go on...

Frank and Bob are two heterosexual male bachelors, they have lived together for many years, have a joint mortage, joint bank account, and have decided that they will always live together.

Adam and Stave are two bisexual males, they have lived together for many years, have a joint mortage, joint bank account, and have decided that they will always live together.

Lets say both relationships seem as stable, they all seem like good people, they all earn the same amount (which is plenty to raise a child with).

Both couples seek to adopt. Specifically a girl. Are their situations equal, if not why not?

I don't know of an example of either relationship irl. I'm not sure that in this specific context they should be good candidates. In every case i would think that there would be more to the criteria than the sexual orientation(s) of the couple.

I honestly am trying to think of a situation where two truly straight guys are committed to living together their whole life. I furthermore don't know of two bisexual guys in an arrangement where they would want to adopt a child. I know lots of diverse people, and i don't know, or have ever known of a single instance where two bisexual guys lived a committed life together.
Danielle
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10/16/2010 11:26:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:19:24 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
But why will they live together? There is always a chance that they will find a 'girl of their dreams' and marry. Then there will be a legal battle for the custody of the girl child. There is no stability in this situation, because owing to their nature, they will be forever propelled to seek a member of opposite sex.

No kidding. This is equally possible in a heterosexual or homosexual romantic partnership. People leave and divorce and move out all the time.
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gerrandesquire
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10/16/2010 11:27:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/16/2010 11:22:07 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:19:24 AM, gerrandesquire wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:14:15 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:03:23 AM, innomen wrote:
At 10/16/2010 11:01:30 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I have previously held some reticence against gay couples adopting... what this was based on I can no longer really remember.

As a random thought, you (society) would not ordinarily allow two close heterosexual male friends (who state that they will live together for the rest of their lives) to adopt a girl. But if the two men were a same sex couple, bisexual, who simply self-identified as homosexual (as is their right). See what I am saying?

No please go on...

Frank and Bob are two heterosexual male bachelors, they have lived together for many years, have a joint mortage, joint bank account, and have decided that they will always live together.


But why will they live together? There is always a chance that they will find a 'girl of their dreams' and marry. Then there will be a legal battle for the custody of the girl child. There is no stability in this situation, because owing to their nature, they will be forever propelled to seek a member of opposite sex.


Seems to be almost a double standard then, the bisexual males might very well find someone else and the same thing may very well occur. Both couples have shown equal commitment to each other.

but the bisexual males are actually attracted towards each other. And if they 'fall out of love' as they say, they will have to file a divorce, and go through the regulations as any heterosexual couple does, while Frank and Bob, not only are they not inclined by their nature to stay with each other, their relationship has no legal value.