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MLK Day thread: Rebranding Black Lives Matter

1harderthanyouthink
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1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
On this day, we remember one of the most legendary black persons to ever live. The Civil Rights Movement scored tremendous victory for blacks in the United States, and today we see a proposed continuation of the movement. The problem, is that Black Lives Matter is an utter failure, and should be scrapped completely.

Did the Civil Rights Movement do enough? No. So is more activism necessary? Absolutely. But BLM suffers from what we call a brand problem, and not for bad reason.

1. There is no leadership.

Nothing about their "group-centered" organization has worked in favor of them. Nothing. At best, they have scored social media points by having their double-digit IQ geniuses to protest...who? Governor O'Malley? Senator Sanders? What the hell are they on?

Screaming, hashtags, and making complete asses of (themselves) isn't going to help this movement achieve anything. Are they a unified front? No. They sought to combat the problems with being leadership-centered by engaging in anarchy. We all want the same result, do we not? Whites too would love for blacks to feel like their lives matter. But going to the majority, and screaming at them that they are "racists" and "pigs" and "slave masters" will turn them against you. Is this really a new concept?

But with a charismatic and engaging leader - one who can inspire (unlike what we've seen), you have a chance to make a change.

2. Stop blaming the whiteys for everything.

236 of the 2,648 black homicide victims in 2012 had - a black perpetrator, or a white one? The answer was a white perpetrator accounted for a mere 8.9% of black victims of homicide. Yet in recent memory, how many of these deaths have we cared about? 5?

If you want other people to take your lives seriously, actually focus on the deaths in your community. To have a complete movement for promoting that Black Lives Matter, focus on all deaths - whether from negligent and/or racist police, or black people themselves.

So the focus that BLM is pushing - this is a human issue, not a civil rights one - is a bit accusative, and not in the right area. Whites should be more engaged with the black community, and we should be moved to care about all black victims, not just a handful.

3. The problem with "Black Lives Matter".

My problem with its title is that it implies separation. But, it wants to be a human issue. Well, if you want it to be a human issue - where black lives matter as much as Asian and white lives, then wouldn't it be better to say "all lives matter"?

But, the problem with saying "all lives matter" is that it is seen as a deflection from the issue. And it is. But, if you frame yourself to be a human rights movement, don't title yourself to say that you are not the same. If we have the same rights, those are human rights, correct? But focusing on race by saying "black lives matter" is just as bad at getting to the point of the matter as saying "all lives matter" when asked to choose between the two.

4. Don't play politics if you don't understand it.

If you come to a gun fight with a knife, prepare to get fvcked. The same is true with politics. If you're a privileged college student screaming "RACISM! OPPRESSION!" at politicians, prepare to be politically lambasted and disregarded by the people that matter most to move your ideals forward.

Again, this falls to the first issue.

Conclusion

As a whole, Black Lives Matter is a terrible movement, a terrible successor to the Civil Rights Movement, and doesn't have any redeeming qualities other than the vague message it fights for - even though it quickly gets muddled by lack of leadership and an egregious lack of true unity.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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1harderthanyouthink
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1/18/2016 7:54:13 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Feel free to add issues. I'm sure I'm missing many.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
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Maikuru
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1/18/2016 7:56:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I agree, there are many issues with the Black Lives Matter movement and significant areas for improvement. That said, I hate to say that this OP doesn't really address them, and instead perpetuates some of the more common misconceptions about the movement and the direction of equity-based movements, in general. If you are interested in learning about what BLM could be doing better, as well as the future of general diversity and equity movements more broadly, Racism without Racists by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva and Democracy in Black by Eddie Glaude Jr. are some good starting points. You can also pm me and I can share some of the materials I use in my classes.
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1harderthanyouthink
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1/18/2016 7:58:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/18/2016 7:56:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I agree, there are many issues with the Black Lives Matter movement and significant areas for improvement. That said, I hate to say that this OP doesn't really address them, and instead perpetuates some of the more common misconceptions about the movement and the direction of equity-based movements, in general. If you are interested in learning about what BLM could be doing better, as well as the future of general diversity and equity movements more broadly, Racism without Racists by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva and Democracy in Black by Eddie Glaude Jr. are some good starting points. You can also pm me and I can share some of the materials I use in my classes.

I don't really think these are misconceptions. Before I wrote this I read a TIME entry by one of the co-founders, and this was my criticism to both their "planned" approach and the results I've seen.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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1/18/2016 7:59:28 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/18/2016 7:56:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I agree, there are many issues with the Black Lives Matter movement and significant areas for improvement. That said, I hate to say that this OP doesn't really address them, and instead perpetuates some of the more common misconceptions about the movement and the direction of equity-based movements, in general. If you are interested in learning about what BLM could be doing better, as well as the future of general diversity and equity movements more broadly, Racism without Racists by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva and Democracy in Black by Eddie Glaude Jr. are some good starting points. You can also pm me and I can share some of the materials I use in my classes.

And the fact that one may say the whole view of the movement is based off of misconception would be indicative of a brand issue.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Maikuru
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1/18/2016 8:15:35 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/18/2016 7:58:03 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/18/2016 7:56:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I agree, there are many issues with the Black Lives Matter movement and significant areas for improvement. That said, I hate to say that this OP doesn't really address them, and instead perpetuates some of the more common misconceptions about the movement and the direction of equity-based movements, in general. If you are interested in learning about what BLM could be doing better, as well as the future of general diversity and equity movements more broadly, Racism without Racists by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva and Democracy in Black by Eddie Glaude Jr. are some good starting points. You can also pm me and I can share some of the materials I use in my classes.

I don't really think these are misconceptions. Before I wrote this I read a TIME entry by one of the co-founders, and this was my criticism to both their "planned" approach and the results I've seen.

Reading a Time article is certainly a good thing. If you'd like to engage more critically with some of the scholarly work being done around this issue and equity issues more broadly, I would recommend the above readings, as well as others I can provide, if you're interested.
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tajshar2k
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1/19/2016 1:38:38 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
On this day, we remember one of the most legendary black persons to ever live. The Civil Rights Movement scored tremendous victory for blacks in the United States, and today we see a proposed continuation of the movement. The problem, is that Black Lives Matter is an utter failure, and should be scrapped completely.

Did the Civil Rights Movement do enough? No. So is more activism necessary? Absolutely. But BLM suffers from what we call a brand problem, and not for bad reason.

1. There is no leadership.

Nothing about their "group-centered" organization has worked in favor of them. Nothing. At best, they have scored social media points by having their double-digit IQ geniuses to protest...who? Governor O'Malley? Senator Sanders? What the hell are they on?

Screaming, hashtags, and making complete asses of (themselves) isn't going to help this movement achieve anything. Are they a unified front? No. They sought to combat the problems with being leadership-centered by engaging in anarchy. We all want the same result, do we not? Whites too would love for blacks to feel like their lives matter. But going to the majority, and screaming at them that they are "racists" and "pigs" and "slave masters" will turn them against you. Is this really a new concept?

But with a charismatic and engaging leader - one who can inspire (unlike what we've seen), you have a chance to make a change.

2. Stop blaming the whiteys for everything.

236 of the 2,648 black homicide victims in 2012 had - a black perpetrator, or a white one? The answer was a white perpetrator accounted for a mere 8.9% of black victims of homicide. Yet in recent memory, how many of these deaths have we cared about? 5?

If you want other people to take your lives seriously, actually focus on the deaths in your community. To have a complete movement for promoting that Black Lives Matter, focus on all deaths - whether from negligent and/or racist police, or black people themselves.

So the focus that BLM is pushing - this is a human issue, not a civil rights one - is a bit accusative, and not in the right area. Whites should be more engaged with the black community, and we should be moved to care about all black victims, not just a handful.

3. The problem with "Black Lives Matter".

My problem with its title is that it implies separation. But, it wants to be a human issue. Well, if you want it to be a human issue - where black lives matter as much as Asian and white lives, then wouldn't it be better to say "all lives matter"?

But, the problem with saying "all lives matter" is that it is seen as a deflection from the issue. And it is. But, if you frame yourself to be a human rights movement, don't title yourself to say that you are not the same. If we have the same rights, those are human rights, correct? But focusing on race by saying "black lives matter" is just as bad at getting to the point of the matter as saying "all lives matter" when asked to choose between the two.

4. Don't play politics if you don't understand it.

If you come to a gun fight with a knife, prepare to get fvcked. The same is true with politics. If you're a privileged college student screaming "RACISM! OPPRESSION!" at politicians, prepare to be politically lambasted and disregarded by the people that matter most to move your ideals forward.

Again, this falls to the first issue.

Conclusion

As a whole, Black Lives Matter is a terrible movement, a terrible successor to the Civil Rights Movement, and doesn't have any redeeming qualities other than the vague message it fights for - even though it quickly gets muddled by lack of leadership and an egregious lack of true unity.

they should rename their movement "Black Lives Also Matter"
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
1harderthanyouthink
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1/19/2016 1:41:41 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 1:38:38 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
3. The problem with "Black Lives Matter".

My problem with its title is that it implies separation. But, it wants to be a human issue. Well, if you want it to be a human issue - where black lives matter as much as Asian and white lives, then wouldn't it be better to say "all lives matter"?

But, the problem with saying "all lives matter" is that it is seen as a deflection from the issue. And it is. But, if you frame yourself to be a human rights movement, don't title yourself to say that you are not the same. If we have the same rights, those are human rights, correct? But focusing on race by saying "black lives matter" is just as bad at getting to the point of the matter as saying "all lives matter" when asked to choose between the two.

they should rename their movement "Black Lives Also Matter"

Well, if you want to help the problem I brought up above, I don't think adding "also" helps too much.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Greyparrot
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1/19/2016 1:47:37 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 1:41:41 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/19/2016 1:38:38 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
3. The problem with "Black Lives Matter".

My problem with its title is that it implies separation. But, it wants to be a human issue. Well, if you want it to be a human issue - where black lives matter as much as Asian and white lives, then wouldn't it be better to say "all lives matter"?

But, the problem with saying "all lives matter" is that it is seen as a deflection from the issue. And it is. But, if you frame yourself to be a human rights movement, don't title yourself to say that you are not the same. If we have the same rights, those are human rights, correct? But focusing on race by saying "black lives matter" is just as bad at getting to the point of the matter as saying "all lives matter" when asked to choose between the two.

they should rename their movement "Black Lives Also Matter"

Well, if you want to help the problem I brought up above, I don't think adding "also" helps too much.

Well you really cant't say "BlackDeathsMatter" so there really isn't any room to address the black on black problems, and absolutely zero room to address the poverty issues.
popculturepooka
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1/19/2016 1:48:24 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/18/2016 7:56:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I agree, there are many issues with the Black Lives Matter movement and significant areas for improvement. That said, I hate to say that this OP doesn't really address them, and instead perpetuates some of the more common misconceptions about the movement and the direction of equity-based movements, in general. If you are interested in learning about what BLM could be doing better, as well as the future of general diversity and equity movements more broadly, Racism without Racists by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva and Democracy in Black by Eddie Glaude Jr. are some good starting points. You can also pm me and I can share some of the materials I use in my classes.

I was going to bother, but then I decided not to. You said it best.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
1harderthanyouthink
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1/19/2016 2:01:48 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 1:48:24 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 1/18/2016 7:56:55 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I agree, there are many issues with the Black Lives Matter movement and significant areas for improvement. That said, I hate to say that this OP doesn't really address them, and instead perpetuates some of the more common misconceptions about the movement and the direction of equity-based movements, in general. If you are interested in learning about what BLM could be doing better, as well as the future of general diversity and equity movements more broadly, Racism without Racists by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva and Democracy in Black by Eddie Glaude Jr. are some good starting points. You can also pm me and I can share some of the materials I use in my classes.

I was going to bother, but then I decided not to. You said it best.

I read an article on the movement by one of the co-founders, and it only enhanced my notions of the movement. I know it's a "misconception" according to the movement that there is no leadership. But on a large scale, "local leaders" isn't going to cut it.

I mean, I found one of their supposed "leaders". He gave a lecture that included defending looting as a protest form. If you want to turn people off as quickly as possible, pit these "leaders" with those of the Civil Rights Movement.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Dilara
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1/19/2016 2:08:26 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Black Lives matter is a joke. Black lives matter was founded byAlicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors and Opel Tometi. In an article for the feminist wire Garza cites, "Assata"s powerful demand in my organizing work." Assata is Assata Shakur AKA Joanne Deborah Chesimard, a radical Marxist who murdered New Jersey State Trooper Werner Foerster on May 2, 1973 by shooting him execution style. Shakur escaped prison in 1979. She had been a part of the Black Liberation Army, a domestic terrorist group responsible for the deaths of 13 police officers. In 1971, Shakur also joined the Republic of New Afrika, a group black separatist that wanted to create a black-ruled country within the states of Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina. After escaping from jail, Shakur was given political asylum in Communist Cuba where she still remains.
In 2013, Shakur was the first woman to appear on the FBI most wanted list.
.http://www.thefeministwire.com...
In 2013, Shakur was the first woman to appear on the FBI most wanted list.
.http://www.thefeministwire.com...
The BLM movement got going in 2014 after the justified shooting of Michael Brown by officer Darren Wilson . BLM jumped to conclusions and deemed this shooting unjustified before the evidence was even out. In March the DOJ released a report on the shooting that stated that Brown was shot justifiably and that he did not have his hands up when he was shot. The start of their movement s based on a lie. Have they apologized to Darren Wilson the man whose life they destroyed? No. http://www.justice.gov...
Their protesters have also attacked many people. http://www.washingtontimes.com...
Their violent rhetoric is directly responsible for the deaths of two NYPD officers, Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramo and Zemir Beguic a man who was hammered to death by BLM protesters who yelled "killed whitey" and went to a Mike Brown rally right before the murder. http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
Lets" not forget the riots they cased in Baltimore.
They also disrupt events and people"s lives. They block traffic, and shut down malls. They protested at an old veterans" party last year and pushed kids singing Christmas carols off a stage. They disrupted a conference with Martin O"Malley and shut down a Bernie sanders rally in Seattle. They also forced the mayor of LA to leave a meeting he was having with members of a black community, where they were discussing crime and poverty, in that BLACK area and how to end it.
BLM is made of a bunch of whiny entitled brats who think they have a right to ruin people's lives.
YYW
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1/19/2016 2:08:27 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
On this day, we remember one of the most legendary black persons to ever live. The Civil Rights Movement scored tremendous victory for blacks in the United States, and today we see a proposed continuation of the movement. The problem, is that Black Lives Matter is an utter failure, and should be scrapped completely.

Did the Civil Rights Movement do enough? No. So is more activism necessary? Absolutely. But BLM suffers from what we call a brand problem, and not for bad reason.

1. There is no leadership.

Nothing about their "group-centered" organization has worked in favor of them. Nothing. At best, they have scored social media points by having their double-digit IQ geniuses to protest...who? Governor O'Malley? Senator Sanders? What the hell are they on?

Screaming, hashtags, and making complete asses of (themselves) isn't going to help this movement achieve anything. Are they a unified front? No. They sought to combat the problems with being leadership-centered by engaging in anarchy. We all want the same result, do we not? Whites too would love for blacks to feel like their lives matter. But going to the majority, and screaming at them that they are "racists" and "pigs" and "slave masters" will turn them against you. Is this really a new concept?

But with a charismatic and engaging leader - one who can inspire (unlike what we've seen), you have a chance to make a change.

2. Stop blaming the whiteys for everything.

236 of the 2,648 black homicide victims in 2012 had - a black perpetrator, or a white one? The answer was a white perpetrator accounted for a mere 8.9% of black victims of homicide. Yet in recent memory, how many of these deaths have we cared about? 5?

If you want other people to take your lives seriously, actually focus on the deaths in your community. To have a complete movement for promoting that Black Lives Matter, focus on all deaths - whether from negligent and/or racist police, or black people themselves.

So the focus that BLM is pushing - this is a human issue, not a civil rights one - is a bit accusative, and not in the right area. Whites should be more engaged with the black community, and we should be moved to care about all black victims, not just a handful.

3. The problem with "Black Lives Matter".

My problem with its title is that it implies separation. But, it wants to be a human issue. Well, if you want it to be a human issue - where black lives matter as much as Asian and white lives, then wouldn't it be better to say "all lives matter"?

But, the problem with saying "all lives matter" is that it is seen as a deflection from the issue. And it is. But, if you frame yourself to be a human rights movement, don't title yourself to say that you are not the same. If we have the same rights, those are human rights, correct? But focusing on race by saying "black lives matter" is just as bad at getting to the point of the matter as saying "all lives matter" when asked to choose between the two.

4. Don't play politics if you don't understand it.

If you come to a gun fight with a knife, prepare to get fvcked. The same is true with politics. If you're a privileged college student screaming "RACISM! OPPRESSION!" at politicians, prepare to be politically lambasted and disregarded by the people that matter most to move your ideals forward.

Again, this falls to the first issue.

Conclusion

As a whole, Black Lives Matter is a terrible movement, a terrible successor to the Civil Rights Movement, and doesn't have any redeeming qualities other than the vague message it fights for - even though it quickly gets muddled by lack of leadership and an egregious lack of true unity.

I agree with most of this and criticism of it has been ignorant and misguided.

#blacklivesmatter is a disgrace to Black people.
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popculturepooka
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1/19/2016 2:28:09 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 2:01:48 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I read an article on the movement by one of the co-founders, and it only enhanced my notions of the movement. I know it's a "misconception" according to the movement that there is no leadership. But on a large scale, "local leaders" isn't going to cut it.

I mean, I found one of their supposed "leaders". He gave a lecture that included defending looting as a protest form. If you want to turn people off as quickly as possible, pit these "leaders" with those of the Civil Rights Movement.

That's not the only misconception here; just one of many.

I think I know who you're talking about, but I've never actually listened to the speech. If that's what they actually said, that's deplorable. Did you also hear that there was a lot of push back against in the movement? What I have heard more commonly, however, is a call for people to take a more nuanced and careful look at the phenomena of rioting. As in, recognizing it is wrong and counterproductive but don't stop there; look at the conditions that would cause people to riot.

Y'know. Just like Martin Luther King Jr did:

""I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation"s summers of riots are caused by our nation"s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention."

"Urban riots must now be recognized as durable social phenomena. They may be deplored, but they are there and should be understood. Urban riots are a special form of violence. They are not insurrections. The rioters are not seeking to seize territory or to attain control of institutions. They are mainly intended to shock the white community. They are a distorted form of social protest. The looting which is their principal feature serves many functions. It enables the most enraged and deprived Negro to take hold of consumer goods with the ease the white man does by using his purse. Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking. But most of all, alienated from society and knowing that this society cherishes property above people, he is shocking it by abusing property rights. There are thus elements of emotional catharsis in the violent act. This may explain why most cities in which riots have occurred have not had a repetition, even though the causative conditions remain. It is also noteworthy that the amount of physical harm done to white people other than police is infinitesimal and in Detroit whites and Negroes looted in unity.

A profound judgment of today's riots was expressed by Victor Hugo a century ago. He said, 'If a soul is left in the darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.'

The policymakers of the white society have caused the darkness; they create discrimination; they structured slums; and they perpetuate unemployment, ignorance and poverty. It is incontestable and deplorable that Negroes have committed crimes; but they are derivative crimes. They are born of the greater crimes of the white society. When we ask Negroes to abide by the law, let us also demand that the white man abide by law in the ghettos. Day-in and day-out he violates welfare laws to deprive the poor of their meager allotments; he flagrantly violates building codes and regulations; his police make a mockery of law; and he violates laws on equal employment and education and the provisions for civic services. The slums are the handiwork of a vicious system of the white society; Negroes live in them but do not make them any more than a prisoner makes a prison. Let us say boldly that if the violations of law by the white man in the slums over the years were calculated and compared with the law-breaking of a few days of riots, the hardened criminal would be the white man. These are often difficult things to say but I have come to see more and more that it is necessary to utter the truth in order to deal with the great problems that we face in our society."

And this leads me to say something about another discussion that we hear a great deal, and that is the so-called "white backlash". I would like to honestly say to you that the white backlash is merely a new name for an old phenomenon. It's not something that just came into being because of shouts of Black Power, or because Negroes engaged in riots in Watts, for instance. The fact is that the state of California voted a Fair Housing bill out of existence before anybody shouted Black Power, or before anybody rioted in Watts.

It may well be that shouts of Black Power and riots in Watts and the Harlems and the other areas, are the consequences of the white backlash rather than the cause of them. What it is necessary to see is that there has never been a single solid monistic determined commitment on the part of the vast majority of white Americans on the whole question of Civil Rights and on the whole question of racial equality. This is something that truth impels all men of good will to admit. "


I would pit those leaders against the CRM considering the CRM was a very diverse and sometimes very fracetious movement. I wish people would actually read up more on it.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
YYW
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1/19/2016 2:30:16 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 2:28:09 AM, popculturepooka wrote:

I would pit those leaders against the CRM considering the CRM was a very diverse and sometimes very fracetious movement. I wish people would actually read up more on it.

I'm pretty sure that even SNCC and Malcolm X would not have supported the specific kinds of protest that #blm engages in. Actually, I know SNCC wouldn't have.
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1/19/2016 2:36:33 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
On this day, we remember one of the most legendary black persons to ever live. The Civil Rights Movement scored tremendous victory for blacks in the United States, and today we see a proposed continuation of the movement. The problem, is that Black Lives Matter is an utter failure, and should be scrapped completely.

Did the Civil Rights Movement do enough? No. So is more activism necessary? Absolutely. But BLM suffers from what we call a brand problem, and not for bad reason.

1. There is no leadership.

Nothing about their "group-centered" organization has worked in favor of them. Nothing. At best, they have scored social media points by having their double-digit IQ geniuses to protest...who? Governor O'Malley? Senator Sanders? What the hell are they on?

Screaming, hashtags, and making complete asses of (themselves) isn't going to help this movement achieve anything. Are they a unified front? No. They sought to combat the problems with being leadership-centered by engaging in anarchy. We all want the same result, do we not? Whites too would love for blacks to feel like their lives matter. But going to the majority, and screaming at them that they are "racists" and "pigs" and "slave masters" will turn them against you. Is this really a new concept?

But with a charismatic and engaging leader - one who can inspire (unlike what we've seen), you have a chance to make a change.

2. Stop blaming the whiteys for everything.

236 of the 2,648 black homicide victims in 2012 had - a black perpetrator, or a white one? The answer was a white perpetrator accounted for a mere 8.9% of black victims of homicide. Yet in recent memory, how many of these deaths have we cared about? 5?

If you want other people to take your lives seriously, actually focus on the deaths in your community. To have a complete movement for promoting that Black Lives Matter, focus on all deaths - whether from negligent and/or racist police, or black people themselves.

So the focus that BLM is pushing - this is a human issue, not a civil rights one - is a bit accusative, and not in the right area. Whites should be more engaged with the black community, and we should be moved to care about all black victims, not just a handful.

3. The problem with "Black Lives Matter".

My problem with its title is that it implies separation. But, it wants to be a human issue. Well, if you want it to be a human issue - where black lives matter as much as Asian and white lives, then wouldn't it be better to say "all lives matter"?

But, the problem with saying "all lives matter" is that it is seen as a deflection from the issue. And it is. But, if you frame yourself to be a human rights movement, don't title yourself to say that you are not the same. If we have the same rights, those are human rights, correct? But focusing on race by saying "black lives matter" is just as bad at getting to the point of the matter as saying "all lives matter" when asked to choose between the two.

4. Don't play politics if you don't understand it.

If you come to a gun fight with a knife, prepare to get fvcked. The same is true with politics. If you're a privileged college student screaming "RACISM! OPPRESSION!" at politicians, prepare to be politically lambasted and disregarded by the people that matter most to move your ideals forward.

Again, this falls to the first issue.

Conclusion

As a whole, Black Lives Matter is a terrible movement, a terrible successor to the Civil Rights Movement, and doesn't have any redeeming qualities other than the vague message it fights for - even though it quickly gets muddled by lack of leadership and an egregious lack of true unity.

+1

I read a TIME article written by one of their "leaders" earlier today.... Well, I tried; I stopped about half way through. Reading this, I would say that you read this article as well.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
The-Voice-of-Truth
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1/19/2016 2:37:17 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/18/2016 7:58:03 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't really think these are misconceptions. Before I wrote this I read a TIME entry by one of the co-founders, and this was my criticism to both their "planned" approach and the results I've seen.

Well, there you have it.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
popculturepooka
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1/19/2016 2:39:43 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 2:30:16 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:28:09 AM, popculturepooka wrote:

I would pit those leaders against the CRM considering the CRM was a very diverse and sometimes very fracetious movement. I wish people would actually read up more on it.

I'm pretty sure that even SNCC and Malcolm X would not have supported the specific kinds of protest that #blm engages in. Actually, I know SNCC wouldn't have.

Maybe not specific instances and the rioting and some of the rhetoric (but then again, they didn't support some specific instances, rioting, and some of the rhetoric from other groups back then, either, so that's nothing special) but other than that I'm pretty sure they would've.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
YYW
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1/19/2016 2:41:36 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 2:39:43 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:30:16 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:28:09 AM, popculturepooka wrote:

I would pit those leaders against the CRM considering the CRM was a very diverse and sometimes very fracetious movement. I wish people would actually read up more on it.

I'm pretty sure that even SNCC and Malcolm X would not have supported the specific kinds of protest that #blm engages in. Actually, I know SNCC wouldn't have.

Maybe not specific instances and the rioting and some of the rhetoric (but then again, they didn't support some specific instances, rioting, and some of the rhetoric from other groups back then, either, so that's nothing special) but other than that I'm pretty sure they would've.

Well, the narrative isn't what's at issue. It's the methods.

SNCC would have worked to build the community first; and not engaged in the kinds of idiotic protests that #blm does. What they're doing would have been unthinkable, because even the most aggressive civil rights movement leaders had more self respect than what I see in #blm.
Tsar of DDO
popculturepooka
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1/19/2016 2:41:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
But other than to correct that one point, I'm done and cede to what Maikuru said.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
The-Voice-of-Truth
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1/19/2016 2:43:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
The biggest issue I have with #BlackLivesMatter is their inability to see that Blacks kill more Blacks than Whites do. Like Harder even said in the OP, only 8.9% of all Black murders were carried out my Whites.

Blacks should focus on improving their own community before they go out and expect other communities to. Living in Memphis, I don't think this will happen any time soon; too many of them have their own loyalties to their gangs, and would rather kill others than give up their loyalty. This is a sad reflection on the Black community.

Now, saying this, I know that all Blacks are not like this; I am friends to quite a few of them. Of course, they are more intelligent and not of the ghetto-thug-hoodling-welfare-rat type.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
Skepsikyma
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1/19/2016 3:02:31 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 2:08:26 AM, Dilara wrote:
Black Lives matter is a joke. Black lives matter was founded byAlicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors and Opel Tometi. In an article for the feminist wire Garza cites, "Assata"s powerful demand in my organizing work." Assata is Assata Shakur AKA Joanne Deborah Chesimard, a radical Marxist who murdered New Jersey State Trooper Werner Foerster on May 2, 1973 by shooting him execution style. Shakur escaped prison in 1979. She had been a part of the Black Liberation Army, a domestic terrorist group responsible for the deaths of 13 police officers. In 1971, Shakur also joined the Republic of New Afrika, a group black separatist that wanted to create a black-ruled country within the states of Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina. After escaping from jail, Shakur was given political asylum in Communist Cuba where she still remains.
In 2013, Shakur was the first woman to appear on the FBI most wanted list.
.http://www.thefeministwire.com...
In 2013, Shakur was the first woman to appear on the FBI most wanted list.
.http://www.thefeministwire.com...
The BLM movement got going in 2014 after the justified shooting of Michael Brown by officer Darren Wilson . BLM jumped to conclusions and deemed this shooting unjustified before the evidence was even out. In March the DOJ released a report on the shooting that stated that Brown was shot justifiably and that he did not have his hands up when he was shot. The start of their movement s based on a lie. Have they apologized to Darren Wilson the man whose life they destroyed? No. http://www.justice.gov...
Their protesters have also attacked many people. http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Shakur was also most likely innocent. The crime which she was accused of was absurd in light of the evidence presented at the trial.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
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1/19/2016 3:08:54 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 2:41:36 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:39:43 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:30:16 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:28:09 AM, popculturepooka wrote:

I would pit those leaders against the CRM considering the CRM was a very diverse and sometimes very fracetious movement. I wish people would actually read up more on it.

I'm pretty sure that even SNCC and Malcolm X would not have supported the specific kinds of protest that #blm engages in. Actually, I know SNCC wouldn't have.

Maybe not specific instances and the rioting and some of the rhetoric (but then again, they didn't support some specific instances, rioting, and some of the rhetoric from other groups back then, either, so that's nothing special) but other than that I'm pretty sure they would've.

Well, the narrative isn't what's at issue. It's the methods.

SNCC would have worked to build the community first; and not engaged in the kinds of idiotic protests that #blm does. What they're doing would have been unthinkable, because even the most aggressive civil rights movement leaders had more self respect than what I see in #blm.

It's almost like instead of a union striking a company and forcing the company to barter for concessions, BLM just torches the company without even asking for anything specific....
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1/19/2016 3:09:36 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 3:08:54 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:41:36 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:39:43 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:30:16 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:28:09 AM, popculturepooka wrote:

I would pit those leaders against the CRM considering the CRM was a very diverse and sometimes very fracetious movement. I wish people would actually read up more on it.

I'm pretty sure that even SNCC and Malcolm X would not have supported the specific kinds of protest that #blm engages in. Actually, I know SNCC wouldn't have.

Maybe not specific instances and the rioting and some of the rhetoric (but then again, they didn't support some specific instances, rioting, and some of the rhetoric from other groups back then, either, so that's nothing special) but other than that I'm pretty sure they would've.

Well, the narrative isn't what's at issue. It's the methods.

SNCC would have worked to build the community first; and not engaged in the kinds of idiotic protests that #blm does. What they're doing would have been unthinkable, because even the most aggressive civil rights movement leaders had more self respect than what I see in #blm.

It's almost like instead of a union striking a company and forcing the company to barter for concessions, BLM just torches the company without even asking for anything specific....

Yeah, I think that's a pretty good analogy.
Tsar of DDO
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1/19/2016 3:13:53 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/18/2016 7:31:38 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

The most dangerous place to be a black person is inside the mother's womb! When life becomes so casual that you kill off way more than 50% of your own race yourself, it is hard to convince people that you truly care about black lives.

http://www.theamericanmirror.com...
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1/19/2016 3:44:10 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 2:43:04 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
The biggest issue I have with #BlackLivesMatter is their inability to see that Blacks kill more Blacks than Whites do. Like Harder even said in the OP, only 8.9% of all Black murders were carried out my Whites.

I think that should even be noted as "non-blacks", not necessarily whites.
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And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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The-Voice-of-Truth
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1/19/2016 2:26:47 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 3:44:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:43:04 AM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
The biggest issue I have with #BlackLivesMatter is their inability to see that Blacks kill more Blacks than Whites do. Like Harder even said in the OP, only 8.9% of all Black murders were carried out my Whites.

I think that should even be noted as "non-blacks", not necessarily whites.

I guess. I said White because they usually blame them. Well, here anyway. But I guess that you could say that.
Suh dude

"Because we all know who the most important snowflake in the wasteland is... It's YOU, champ! You're a special snowflake." -Vaarka, 01:30 in the hangouts

"Screw laying siege to Korea. That usually takes an hour or so." -Vaarka

"Crap, what is my religion again?" -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door.
Dilara
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1/19/2016 3:45:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 3:02:31 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:08:26 AM, Dilara wrote:
Black Lives matter is a joke. Black lives matter was founded byAlicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors and Opel Tometi. In an article for the feminist wire Garza cites, "Assata"s powerful demand in my organizing work." Assata is Assata Shakur AKA Joanne Deborah Chesimard, a radical Marxist who murdered New Jersey State Trooper Werner Foerster on May 2, 1973 by shooting him execution style. Shakur escaped prison in 1979. She had been a part of the Black Liberation Army, a domestic terrorist group responsible for the deaths of 13 police officers. In 1971, Shakur also joined the Republic of New Afrika, a group black separatist that wanted to create a black-ruled country within the states of Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina. After escaping from jail, Shakur was given political asylum in Communist Cuba where she still remains.
In 2013, Shakur was the first woman to appear on the FBI most wanted list.
.http://www.thefeministwire.com...
In 2013, Shakur was the first woman to appear on the FBI most wanted list.
.http://www.thefeministwire.com...
The BLM movement got going in 2014 after the justified shooting of Michael Brown by officer Darren Wilson . BLM jumped to conclusions and deemed this shooting unjustified before the evidence was even out. In March the DOJ released a report on the shooting that stated that Brown was shot justifiably and that he did not have his hands up when he was shot. The start of their movement s based on a lie. Have they apologized to Darren Wilson the man whose life they destroyed? No. http://www.justice.gov...
Their protesters have also attacked many people. http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Shakur was also most likely innocent. The crime which she was accused of was absurd in light of the evidence presented at the trial.

Do you have sources?
Even so, she was still part of a separatist terrorist movement.
Skepsikyma
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1/19/2016 4:59:52 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/19/2016 3:45:36 PM, Dilara wrote:
At 1/19/2016 3:02:31 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 1/19/2016 2:08:26 AM, Dilara wrote:
Black Lives matter is a joke. Black lives matter was founded byAlicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors and Opel Tometi. In an article for the feminist wire Garza cites, "Assata"s powerful demand in my organizing work." Assata is Assata Shakur AKA Joanne Deborah Chesimard, a radical Marxist who murdered New Jersey State Trooper Werner Foerster on May 2, 1973 by shooting him execution style. Shakur escaped prison in 1979. She had been a part of the Black Liberation Army, a domestic terrorist group responsible for the deaths of 13 police officers. In 1971, Shakur also joined the Republic of New Afrika, a group black separatist that wanted to create a black-ruled country within the states of Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina. After escaping from jail, Shakur was given political asylum in Communist Cuba where she still remains.
In 2013, Shakur was the first woman to appear on the FBI most wanted list.
.http://www.thefeministwire.com...
In 2013, Shakur was the first woman to appear on the FBI most wanted list.
.http://www.thefeministwire.com...
The BLM movement got going in 2014 after the justified shooting of Michael Brown by officer Darren Wilson . BLM jumped to conclusions and deemed this shooting unjustified before the evidence was even out. In March the DOJ released a report on the shooting that stated that Brown was shot justifiably and that he did not have his hands up when he was shot. The start of their movement s based on a lie. Have they apologized to Darren Wilson the man whose life they destroyed? No. http://www.justice.gov...
Their protesters have also attacked many people. http://www.washingtontimes.com...

Shakur was also most likely innocent. The crime which she was accused of was absurd in light of the evidence presented at the trial.

Do you have sources?
Even so, she was still part of a separatist terrorist movement.

Well, it's a conclusion, so you can't really have 'sources' for it. Just read about some of her trials. In one, a witness for the prosecution had both formerly worked for the prosecution and confessed to once being in love with Shakur in court. He and another accomplice, who had actually performed the robbery, were offered very generous plea deals in order to testify that Shakur 'guarded the door'. In another bank robbery trial they tried to convict her when only one witness testified that she had robbed the bank, with the rest unwilling to make that call. She was acquitted of all of these, by the way. Then there was the actual shooting trial, which was a colossal mess. The only witness to testify concerning Shakur's alleged execution-style shooting was a police officer, who was forced into admitting that he lied about certain events during his grand jury testimony, and that he had falsified reports. She was eventually convicted by an all-white jury, after the officer admitted that he had never even seen her with a gun. All expert medical testimony held that she it was anatomically impossible to her to have been shot while in a crouching position (which is what the prosecution claimed had happened), that she had been shot with her hands in the air, and that the nerve which was severed by the bullet would have made it impossible to pull a trigger, as it would have paralyzed her arm. Once medical testimony was began to exonerate her, the judge cut off funding for expert defense testimony. No fingerprints of hers were found on the weapons, and no gunpowder residue was found on her hands. Seeing as this whole dog and pony show took place during the height of the FBIs COINTELPRO activities, it seems much more likely to be that Shakur was targeted due to her activism.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -