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Has Sanders already changed the Democrats?

1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/20/2016 2:28:30 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
http://media.bloomberg.com...

One the questions asked the likely Iowa caucus voters if the words given described them or not.

For the Democrats:

38% identified as capitalist
43% identified as socialist

Thoughts on that?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,250
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1/20/2016 2:30:01 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 2:28:30 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://media.bloomberg.com...

One the questions asked the likely Iowa caucus voters if the words given described them or not.

For the Democrats:

38% identified as capitalist
43% identified as socialist

Thoughts on that?

The silent socialist majority roars.
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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1/20/2016 2:36:47 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 2:28:30 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://media.bloomberg.com...

One the questions asked the likely Iowa caucus voters if the words given described them or not.

For the Democrats:

38% identified as capitalist
43% identified as socialist

Thoughts on that?

I think he has; Sanders has set the tone of this election more than any other politician, and that's really an incredible accomplishment.

He's forced Clinton to the left. He's shaken the core of establishment Democratic party leadership. He's awakened a lot of people to the necessity of voting in their political interest.

While he might not get elected this go-round, he's created the chance for a real Democratic Socialist to get elected in, maybe, two electoral cycles or so.
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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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1/20/2016 3:04:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 2:28:30 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://media.bloomberg.com...

One the questions asked the likely Iowa caucus voters if the words given described them or not.

For the Democrats:

38% identified as capitalist
43% identified as socialist

Thoughts on that?

Yea, I got to agree.

Going in, I liked Sanders enough. I had absolutly NO expectations for him, other than scream like a grumpy old man. I supported him initially because Clinton needed someone to counter. We always need someone on the left. Now its no joke, its a real (be it small) chance of him taking the nomination.

Change the party? Well, that may be just a little too much, but it sure is looking like he is shaking it, and hard.
liltankjj
Posts: 430
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1/20/2016 3:22:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I don't have an issue with old Sanders. He comes off realistic, as though he truly cares about people. I can respect that. My only problem is that I don't feel that Socialism works from a government level. It is however extremely effective at a community level. He would be great as a charity leader somewhere.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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1/20/2016 3:39:12 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 3:22:22 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I don't have an issue with old Sanders. He comes off realistic, as though he truly cares about people. I can respect that. My only problem is that I don't feel that Socialism works from a government level. It is however extremely effective at a community level. He would be great as a charity leader somewhere.

That is a real problem. He is very passionate, but very vertical. His concerns are right on target, but there is a lot of governing that fall outside his own complaints.
liltankjj
Posts: 430
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1/20/2016 3:43:09 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 3:39:12 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:22:22 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I don't have an issue with old Sanders. He comes off realistic, as though he truly cares about people. I can respect that. My only problem is that I don't feel that Socialism works from a government level. It is however extremely effective at a community level. He would be great as a charity leader somewhere.

That is a real problem. He is very passionate, but very vertical. His concerns are right on target, but there is a lot of governing that fall outside his own complaints.

Would you mind going into details on the governing that falls outside of his complaints?
inferno
Posts: 10,556
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1/20/2016 3:51:10 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 2:28:30 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://media.bloomberg.com...

One the questions asked the likely Iowa caucus voters if the words given described them or not.

For the Democrats:

38% identified as capitalist
43% identified as socialist

Thoughts on that?

There are no questions. Both Clinton and Sanders beat the entire GOP roster by double digits in a national election. Did you get that.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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1/20/2016 4:12:13 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 3:43:09 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:39:12 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:22:22 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I don't have an issue with old Sanders. He comes off realistic, as though he truly cares about people. I can respect that. My only problem is that I don't feel that Socialism works from a government level. It is however extremely effective at a community level. He would be great as a charity leader somewhere.

That is a real problem. He is very passionate, but very vertical. His concerns are right on target, but there is a lot of governing that fall outside his own complaints.

Would you mind going into details on the governing that falls outside of his complaints?

He is obviously passionate about economics. While I agree with his general stance in international affairs, its not a strong suit for him in the general, and it simply not that great a concern for him.
inferno
Posts: 10,556
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1/20/2016 4:31:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:12:13 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:43:09 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:39:12 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:22:22 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I don't have an issue with old Sanders. He comes off realistic, as though he truly cares about people. I can respect that. My only problem is that I don't feel that Socialism works from a government level. It is however extremely effective at a community level. He would be great as a charity leader somewhere.

That is a real problem. He is very passionate, but very vertical. His concerns are right on target, but there is a lot of governing that fall outside his own complaints.

Would you mind going into details on the governing that falls outside of his complaints?

He is obviously passionate about economics. While I agree with his general stance in international affairs, its not a strong suit for him in the general, and it simply not that great a concern for him.

His momentum is growing. Never say never.
liltankjj
Posts: 430
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1/20/2016 4:55:14 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:12:13 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:43:09 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:39:12 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:22:22 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I don't have an issue with old Sanders. He comes off realistic, as though he truly cares about people. I can respect that. My only problem is that I don't feel that Socialism works from a government level. It is however extremely effective at a community level. He would be great as a charity leader somewhere.

That is a real problem. He is very passionate, but very vertical. His concerns are right on target, but there is a lot of governing that fall outside his own complaints.

Would you mind going into details on the governing that falls outside of his complaints?

He is obviously passionate about economics. While I agree with his general stance in international affairs, its not a strong suit for him in the general, and it simply not that great a concern for him.

His stance on international affairs I am not to familiar with.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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1/20/2016 4:58:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:55:14 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:12:13 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:43:09 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:39:12 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:22:22 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I don't have an issue with old Sanders. He comes off realistic, as though he truly cares about people. I can respect that. My only problem is that I don't feel that Socialism works from a government level. It is however extremely effective at a community level. He would be great as a charity leader somewhere.

That is a real problem. He is very passionate, but very vertical. His concerns are right on target, but there is a lot of governing that fall outside his own complaints.

Would you mind going into details on the governing that falls outside of his complaints?

He is obviously passionate about economics. While I agree with his general stance in international affairs, its not a strong suit for him in the general, and it simply not that great a concern for him.

His stance on international affairs I am not to familiar with.

That's because he doesn't talk much about them.
liltankjj
Posts: 430
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1/20/2016 5:04:48 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:58:41 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:55:14 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:12:13 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:43:09 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:39:12 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:22:22 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I don't have an issue with old Sanders. He comes off realistic, as though he truly cares about people. I can respect that. My only problem is that I don't feel that Socialism works from a government level. It is however extremely effective at a community level. He would be great as a charity leader somewhere.

That is a real problem. He is very passionate, but very vertical. His concerns are right on target, but there is a lot of governing that fall outside his own complaints.

Would you mind going into details on the governing that falls outside of his complaints?

He is obviously passionate about economics. While I agree with his general stance in international affairs, its not a strong suit for him in the general, and it simply not that great a concern for him.

His stance on international affairs I am not to familiar with.

That's because he doesn't talk much about them.

good point.
Porkloin
Posts: 53
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1/20/2016 5:11:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I would not say the Democrats have been changed, as there were already many that supported very far-left ideas.

In this election cycle, there is certainly a willingness to accept non-mainstream candidates, even an overwhelming desire for that and nothing else, on the part of many, and it shows with Trump's popularity as well as the relatively good showing for Sanders thus far.

As for people identifying as socialists, the U.S. has a large and growing percentage of people that get their money from the federal gov't, and while that does not mean that every such individual will want socialism, it stands to reason that there is a huge portion of people who would never quit voting themselves the benefits of the public treasury.

Sanders talks about things that sound great to those people; they don't see themselves as having to pay for it, and I don't think Sanders himself really acknowledges how such things would have to be paid for, and the real effects upon the country. Sadly, it's a road that we are already far down, with massively detrimental effects on most Americans, in the end.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/21/2016 3:05:55 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 4:55:14 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:12:13 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:43:09 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:39:12 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:22:22 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I don't have an issue with old Sanders. He comes off realistic, as though he truly cares about people. I can respect that. My only problem is that I don't feel that Socialism works from a government level. It is however extremely effective at a community level. He would be great as a charity leader somewhere.

That is a real problem. He is very passionate, but very vertical. His concerns are right on target, but there is a lot of governing that fall outside his own complaints.

Would you mind going into details on the governing that falls outside of his complaints?

He is obviously passionate about economics. While I agree with his general stance in international affairs, its not a strong suit for him in the general, and it simply not that great a concern for him.

His stance on international affairs I am not to familiar with.

https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

You can probably get the idea that he very much opposes direct intervention.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
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1/21/2016 3:22:48 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/20/2016 2:28:30 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
http://media.bloomberg.com...

One the questions asked the likely Iowa caucus voters if the words given described them or not.

For the Democrats:

38% identified as capitalist
43% identified as socialist

Thoughts on that?

Well, the Democratic party hasn't been famous for being the most economically literate party.

And of course they are Socialists, they love handouts since most of them are lazy entitled brats.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/21/2016 5:05:53 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Is it just me, or has the average indicated IQ from conservative and libertarian posts taken a huge hit lately?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
liltankjj
Posts: 430
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1/21/2016 1:47:37 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/21/2016 3:05:55 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:55:14 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 1/20/2016 4:12:13 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:43:09 PM, liltankjj wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:39:12 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/20/2016 3:22:22 PM, liltankjj wrote:
I don't have an issue with old Sanders. He comes off realistic, as though he truly cares about people. I can respect that. My only problem is that I don't feel that Socialism works from a government level. It is however extremely effective at a community level. He would be great as a charity leader somewhere.

That is a real problem. He is very passionate, but very vertical. His concerns are right on target, but there is a lot of governing that fall outside his own complaints.

Would you mind going into details on the governing that falls outside of his complaints?

He is obviously passionate about economics. While I agree with his general stance in international affairs, its not a strong suit for him in the general, and it simply not that great a concern for him.

His stance on international affairs I am not to familiar with.

https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

You can probably get the idea that he very much opposes direct intervention.

Interesting, I will do more digging on it.