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GOP: Judgement Day

Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/23/2016 9:40:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I have been looking on for years marveling at how GOP candidates continue to gain the support of voters when their basic philosophy is that government itself is bad. As I look at what is happening today, I think that philosophy is finally catching up to them.

GOP candidates basically run on the anger and dissatisfaction people have towards government. This is why the term "establishment" has been demonized so effectively. In building their campaigns to take advantage of this they have gotten very good at the talking points that make the government seem so evil and scary. However, ironically, in succeeding in getting so many Americans to adopt this way of thinking it seems that the very ideals that they used to get themselves elected are now the ideals that disqualify them from furthering their careers, and result in a total loss of control by the GOP.

You cannot get elected to a government position without being part of the government. This puts GOP candidates in a conundrum, the minute they attempt to use their government roll to solve a problem they become part of the "establishment" they succeeded in demonizing, and if they never use their roll to solve a problem then they have no accomplishments to run on.

This is why a neurosurgeon or Hewlett Packard CEO can now jump into a race for President and be taken seriously, and why a reality show TV star is the party's leading front runner. It's much easier to attack government when you are not apart of it. Which is also why the only politician in the race that seems to have a good chance of getting the nomination is the very same guy who lead the march to shut the government down a few years ago, meanwhile the party's choice candidate has been outright rejected by the voters despite the massive funds that have been poured into his campaign.

Is this sustainable, or has the GOP finally reached it's own judgement day?
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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1/23/2016 10:23:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 9:40:50 PM, Double_R wrote:
I have been looking on for years marveling at how GOP candidates continue to gain the support of voters when their basic philosophy is that government itself is bad. As I look at what is happening today, I think that philosophy is finally catching up to them.

GOP candidates basically run on the anger and dissatisfaction people have towards government. This is why the term "establishment" has been demonized so effectively. In building their campaigns to take advantage of this they have gotten very good at the talking points that make the government seem so evil and scary. However, ironically, in succeeding in getting so many Americans to adopt this way of thinking it seems that the very ideals that they used to get themselves elected are now the ideals that disqualify them from furthering their careers, and result in a total loss of control by the GOP.

You cannot get elected to a government position without being part of the government. This puts GOP candidates in a conundrum, the minute they attempt to use their government roll to solve a problem they become part of the "establishment" they succeeded in demonizing, and if they never use their roll to solve a problem then they have no accomplishments to run on.

This is why a neurosurgeon or Hewlett Packard CEO can now jump into a race for President and be taken seriously, and why a reality show TV star is the party's leading front runner. It's much easier to attack government when you are not apart of it. Which is also why the only politician in the race that seems to have a good chance of getting the nomination is the very same guy who lead the march to shut the government down a few years ago, meanwhile the party's choice candidate has been outright rejected by the voters despite the massive funds that have been poured into his campaign.

Is this sustainable, or has the GOP finally reached it's own judgement day?

Also consider that they don't have a recent president to champion as a model of good governance. They're almost entirely still dependent on Reagan as their presidential icon and that's about as distant and irrelevant as a democrat citing FDR. H.W. was a single-term president, punished by his own party for reneging on his promise not to increase taxes and overseeing a minor economic recession. George W. evaporated as a relevant political figure the moment he left office, never praised, sought, or defended in the three elections that followed -- where he's cited, it's typically with reference to his failures (Katrina, the Iraq War and the financial crisis).

At the center of this quandary is a persistent contradiction. You can't keep inveighing against the government and thwarting its activity where possible, without a contemporary model of a functioning Republican government. You can't keep criticizing legislation without clear alternatives ... you leave a void of legitimacy that's easily filled by radical actors like Trump and Cruz.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
imabench
Posts: 21,211
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1/23/2016 10:29:45 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 9:40:50 PM, Double_R wrote:
I have been looking on for years marveling at how GOP candidates continue to gain the support of voters when their basic philosophy is that government itself is bad. As I look at what is happening today, I think that philosophy is finally catching up to them.

GOP candidates basically run on the anger and dissatisfaction people have towards government. This is why the term "establishment" has been demonized so effectively. In building their campaigns to take advantage of this they have gotten very good at the talking points that make the government seem so evil and scary. However, ironically, in succeeding in getting so many Americans to adopt this way of thinking it seems that the very ideals that they used to get themselves elected are now the ideals that disqualify them from furthering their careers, and result in a total loss of control by the GOP.

You cannot get elected to a government position without being part of the government. This puts GOP candidates in a conundrum, the minute they attempt to use their government roll to solve a problem they become part of the "establishment" they succeeded in demonizing, and if they never use their roll to solve a problem then they have no accomplishments to run on.

This is why a neurosurgeon or Hewlett Packard CEO can now jump into a race for President and be taken seriously, and why a reality show TV star is the party's leading front runner. It's much easier to attack government when you are not apart of it. Which is also why the only politician in the race that seems to have a good chance of getting the nomination is the very same guy who lead the march to shut the government down a few years ago, meanwhile the party's choice candidate has been outright rejected by the voters despite the massive funds that have been poured into his campaign.

Is this sustainable, or has the GOP finally reached it's own judgement day?

In general elections it comes back hard to bite them since now they cant run on experience, but in Senate and House elections i imagine it pays off better because in elections without primaries, its no longer a race to the bottom in terms of not having government experience to win support since multiple candidates arent vying for support, its a 2 horse race between whichever Republican is running, and whichever Democrat is running.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/23/2016 10:58:05 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 10:23:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
Also consider that they don't have a recent president to champion as a model of good governance. They're almost entirely still dependent on Reagan as their presidential icon...

Which is pretty amazing since he would not even make it through a GOP primary today.
imabench
Posts: 21,211
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1/23/2016 10:59:14 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 10:58:05 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/23/2016 10:23:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
Also consider that they don't have a recent president to champion as a model of good governance. They're almost entirely still dependent on Reagan as their presidential icon...

Which is pretty amazing since he would not even make it through a GOP primary today.

Hell he'd probably vote for one of the Dems at this point considering how hard to the right the rest of the GOP has mvoed
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/23/2016 11:04:12 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 10:59:14 PM, imabench wrote:
At 1/23/2016 10:58:05 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 1/23/2016 10:23:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
Also consider that they don't have a recent president to champion as a model of good governance. They're almost entirely still dependent on Reagan as their presidential icon...

Which is pretty amazing since he would not even make it through a GOP primary today.

Hell he'd probably vote for one of the Dems at this point considering how hard to the right the rest of the GOP has mvoed

I agree. Reagan comes from a time when nearly all Americans recognized that good governance required governing.
imabench
Posts: 21,211
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1/24/2016 12:04:42 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 11:55:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
Geez... You're all sounding Canadian... Peace, Order and Good Government...

https://en.wikipedia.org...

^ Exhibit A for why Reagan wouldnt have a chance these days..... Even muttering the words 'good government' causes the radical right to start accusing you of being canadian
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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1/24/2016 2:23:47 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 12:04:42 AM, imabench wrote:
At 1/23/2016 11:55:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
Geez... You're all sounding Canadian... Peace, Order and Good Government...

https://en.wikipedia.org...

^ Exhibit A for why Reagan wouldnt have a chance these days..... Even muttering the words 'good government' causes the radical right to start accusing you of being canadian

That's because Canada is right! Except in the last election, we were very very wrong...
imabench
Posts: 21,211
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1/24/2016 2:51:25 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 2:23:47 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/24/2016 12:04:42 AM, imabench wrote:
At 1/23/2016 11:55:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
Geez... You're all sounding Canadian... Peace, Order and Good Government...

https://en.wikipedia.org...

^ Exhibit A for why Reagan wouldnt have a chance these days..... Even muttering the words 'good government' causes the radical right to start accusing you of being canadian

That's because Canada is right! Except in the last election, we were very very wrong...

Should I just say nothing and let you make yourself look like a complete idiot for me or would you prefer I give input?
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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1/24/2016 3:39:35 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 2:51:25 AM, imabench wrote:
At 1/24/2016 2:23:47 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/24/2016 12:04:42 AM, imabench wrote:
At 1/23/2016 11:55:58 PM, Geogeer wrote:
Geez... You're all sounding Canadian... Peace, Order and Good Government...

https://en.wikipedia.org...

^ Exhibit A for why Reagan wouldnt have a chance these days..... Even muttering the words 'good government' causes the radical right to start accusing you of being canadian

That's because Canada is right! Except in the last election, we were very very wrong...

Should I just say nothing and let you make yourself look like a complete idiot for me or would you prefer I give input?

Oh input please. I would like my idiocy to be known far and wide in the most explicit manner possible.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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1/24/2016 7:54:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
This is dumb. Republicans are not opposed to government per se (If they were, they would be anarchists, which they are not). They are opposed to government as it currently exists. Like, you can be critical of someone's parenting and try to take custody of their child without being hypocritical. The case is no different for political hopefuls who are critical of government and "the establishment". The only way they can address the problem is by displacing the politicians currently in power.